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Mining Examination

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Fridgster, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    There has been some concern about the spawning rate of colored ores. After 4438 ores mined I have the following:

    Iron: 2592
    Dull Copper: 763
    Shadow Iron: 308
    Copper: 294
    Bronze: 161
    Gold: 157
    Agapite: 52
    Verite: 107
    Valorite: 4

    You can draw your own conclusions. One note I DID use a prospectors tool.
     
  2. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    mining skill?
     
  3. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    105 and human

    tomorrow I'll use an elf to see the difference. BTW it took my hours of straight grinding.
     
  4. Jactiggy

    Jactiggy Visitor
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    I noticed this a few weeks back and was going to post here about it to see if anyone else was having the same trouble mining (especially the high end) coloured ore.
    I figured that I must have hit an unlucky patch.

    I'm aware the higher coloured ores are supposed to be rarer, but it just seems that sometime in the past month or so that the mining system seems to have gone a little dickie and out of whack.
     
  5. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Honestly the only way I see mining to be even close to worth while at this point is with a prospectors tool plus a gargoyle axe. That would have netted me about 250~ val ores including ore ele spawns. Heh who am I kidding, I just spent about 6 hours mining and got 4 val ores LOL.
     
  6. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Using a combat miner even human using the prospector and garg pick combo. The rare ore spawn ore alone would of doubled the shadow and higher ore. There is a mountain range NW of the Meer Ilsh village. The pixie spawn along it and can help out on eli spawn. The higher end range of ore there is impressive. The Niter spawn along there is high even with low luck. And the CBR as loot off the rare ores doesn't hurt. My combat miner is also 120 smith and smelts any junk items from eli for around 100 ingots per 4 picks.

    Again must add in the importance of having dull copper eli spawn with 25 ore also. Without, I never mine for dull copper and is never above 20 ingots after 4 picks.

    Mage miner is outdated and good for a laugh like a sheep skin condom. Pally Macer with earth slayer war mace. Every rare ore with consencrate weapon is redline one hit kills. Just need to watch the copper and val eli with their reflect damage. Can return as much as 85 damage. Using every STR, DEX & INT pump gear puts my miner at 150STR, 150DEX & 65INT. Thats 625 stone carry weight without pedals or potion pump. Last mining event I took first for points, that was greater then any other three miners combined.
     
  7. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Same pathetic results as my lumberjacking thread.

    Resource randomization was bad overall but the spawn rates for the rarest resources should have been tweaked a long time ago.

    The devs wanted rare resources to be more rare but they went way too far. Sixty k valorite ingots went from 5mil pre-randomization to 50-60 mil today. Ridiculous.
     
  8. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Resource gathering could use a reboot all around.
     
  9. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    I have combat mined back when there was the Excuvator picks also. Twice in my days I have pulled 4 vals from one spot. In Ilsh I pull a paragon at least per 8 picks. The real rare treat is getting the chest. Really to bad they reduced the eli hut spawn to just earths. And the only Ilsh dull is in a heavy spawn area and not worth the two ore.
     
  10. retrorider

    retrorider Journeyman
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    Ridiculous, yes, and Randomization was done in an effort to thwart farm bots but who do you think you're buying those 60k of Val ingots from most of the time?
     
  11. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah and there's only 26 deeds available on the search site. Only one is for 10k ingots, two for 5k ingots and the rest are for 1k or 500 ingots. Even the scripters can't find enough valorite.
     
  12. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    There's not even one commodity deed worth valorite ingots available on Pacific.
     
  13. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Until "scripting" is stopped or made legal, its going to continue to be an issue.
     
  14. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Not sure how you get that. I'm concerned about the spawn rate. While scripting definitely caused them to change the process, it is not really the issue here. The spawn rate is.
     
  15. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Whether you believe it or not, the devs have repeatedly said that resource randomization was not done to combat scripting.
     
  16. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Any word on why then?
     
  17. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    So, we can now get the high end BODs we need to get the high end Runics to make high end armor and weapons, but we can not get high end ingots from mining to actually fill the BODs....lol

    I have saved up enough of the top 3 ingots over the last 5 years to maybe fill 3 or 4 plate armor BODs--not really going to help me much!
     
  18. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    It was stated they did it to bring back rarity to the high-end colored ore and wood.

    Before randomization there wasn't really any rarity because you knew where the resource you wanted was and you went and collected it until you had enough. I had several rune books of each color ore and log and I could just go mine or chop as much as I needed and then some.

    The scripters gathered valorite ore and frostwood logs non-stop. There was almost as much valorite for sale as there was iron they just charged more for it.
     
  19. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    The smelting process for ore was designed pre randomization and needs to be tossed.

    With the stupid low spawn rate of gold, agapite, verite and valorite it's ridiculous that you can lose so much of it when smelting.
     
  20. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    I agree completely. Even with 105 mining, its not rare for me to have to attempt to smelt a pile of valorite 2-3 times before getting ingots. Similar results from agapite and verite, just to a lesser extreme.
     
  21. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    good guide thanks

    I didn't know it was so hard to get ingots these days.
     
  22. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    I agree I'm going to use his process right now for 1 hour. Ill post my results.
     
  23. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I see, clearly I assumed this was heading in the direction of scripting vs person mining.

    Instead (now that I've read more of the posts in this thread) It's based on how difficult it is to get the higher end materials from Mining & Lumberjacking.

    The only solutions (and would probably compliment each other pretty well) would be.

    Increasing Spawn Rate : how often high end materials veins/trees spawn, slightly (too much would result in benefiting scripters more than non-scripters) though judging by the results the OP's posted on his/her mining trip, the spawn rate would need to be increased by tons. considering if not for the Prospecting Tools, Valorite may not have even been found at all.

    Gargoyle Pickaxes : chance to spawn an ore ele increased significantly to about 50%-75% per use. (quality of ore has no effect, on the chance to spawn an elemental) They would also have to add some sort of LJing axe that has the ability to spawn "wood" elementals.

    The reasons I suggest this is... most "Script Miners" do not Kill anything. (result would be to make it easier for non-scripters to get these resources, since it would then take effort to kill elementals which are pulled up) each elemental would carry 25 of the appropriate ore (as is), and maybe 75-100 the appropriate wood types for LJ'ers.

    Smelting : High end ore fail/success chances should just be dropped. if your high enough to smelt it, let there be success! (you need mining to beable to mine the high end resources anyway, why not?)
     
  24. DanteSignas

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    I agree that the ore spawn rate sucks nowadays for high end ores. However I guess we can be a bit to blame for complaining about the scripters so loudly(jk). Now I almost miss them lol (also jk)

    I guess the bottom line is that the randomization of ore/wood veins was a bad bad bad idea. I think that they should just be more proactive at researching and penalizing the SCRIPTERS instead of adding blanket fixes such as the randomization which hurts not only the scripters but also legit players.

    Especially now with the BOD changes, the demand for ore is higher then ever before and while thats great for folks who do nothing but mine, it sucks for the average player who wants to see some tangible yield for their efforts.
     
  25. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I have an elf miner and in 1 hour I gather a bit of everything but not less than 200 valorite for sure...

    The point is:
    Human : high amount but bad quality
    Elf : normal amount of good quality

    choosing a human you have renounced to high level ore :p
     
  26. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    OK Burned up 20 garg pick in runs of 4 picks. First three runs same place I've been mining above the pixie spawn NW of the Meer village. Starting the same place along the NW side of the ridge I know 2 shadow ore spots are side by side. Not changed in weeks. 4th run was to fel Delucia doing a loop in the city to see what letting my Ilsh area cool would do. And 5th run the same Ilsh path. Being part of the Minoc invasion my need for Valorite is low. But a circle around Valor gate is good for handfull of val spots.

    Learned tonight the Niter spawns out of site in the mountain at times. But can be targeted and mined after Ctrl Shifting it location. Just need to slide the guantlet over the area till can DC for last target bar, EC.

    Hotkeys. Use garg pick. Use prospector last target. Use garg pick last target x5 (for rare ore eli control). Smelt large ore. Smelt med ore. Use shovel. Use shovel target last 10x for Niter. Luck 460 no statue rub

    1st run Ilsh, Ores 401/22/344/246/61/232/60/0/24 1CBR 1BR 281salt peter 1perfect emeral 2blue diamond 16gems 1117GP 1unravel item.

    2nd run Ilsh, Ores 445/18/215/180/253/296/4/0/35 2CBR 4BR 226salt peter 1dark saphire 1ecru 16gems 1676GP LVL1 Ilsh map 1Cocoa Liquor (3gold eli from one spot) (bronze paragon)

    3rd run Ilsh, Ores 331/18/285/116/217/283/28/0/58 1CBR 2BR 339salt peter 22gems 1 unravel 2483GP (4 gold eli from one spot) (bronze paragon)

    4th run Fel, Ores 1084/38/472/252/16/52/16/0/0 3BR (3 found on ground) 1perfect emeral 2blue diamond 1fire ruby 1dark saphire 8gems 569GP (3 rare ore eli total)

    5th run Ilsh, Ores 339/28/504/144/91/255/20/0/15 2CBR 4BR 18gems 1unravel 2093GP (gold paragon) (shadow paragon)

    Total 20 Picks, Ores 2600/124/1820/938/638/1118/128/0/132 7498ingots 6CBR 140points BR 1031salt peter 10special gems 80NPC gems 3unravel items = 5enchanted essence 7938GP LVL1 Ilsh Tmap


    Got lucky on the 3 / 4 pulls from one mining spot on gold eli. No fails for all 7 smelts. My experience the ore eli spawn tonight was below average. But the paragons better then average. Just no chest as expected anyways.
     
  27. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    It has been many moons when I last found naturally occuring valorite. I have always had to 'force' valorite out of agapite or verite to have any in stock at all. I agree that valorite shouldnt' be as common as iron or dull copper,but it should not be impossible to find.
     
  28. Erigo

    Erigo Adventurer

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    Legends - Fel - 1 hour - gargoyle pickaxes


    Iron 768
    Dull copper 421
    Shadow iron 1162
    Copper 303
    Bronze 121
    Golden 445
    Agapite 195
    Verite 62
    Valorite 40

    Edited to add: All ingots (not ores)
     
  29. Barania

    Barania Slightly Crazed
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    I don't mine that much anymore and would agree that high end stuff is way difficult to find. Once in awhile I land one verite ore but most often it's either iron, dull, or shadow while mixing in a perfect emerald or fire ruby now and then. I hate to look at the old mining runebooks from years past in my chests collecting dust.

    Picked up a 15/x/gold/plate/6 piece/lbod about an hour ago on Siege - with bribery it will go to 20 I guess. Would take forever to mine that amount of gold ingots if you had the 6 sbods with the spawn rate where it is now. Anybody on Siege selling gold ingots?

    Jack Nickelson
     
  30. Wizal the Fox

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    One word: Zosilem
     
  31. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    turned all my gem carts (for imbuing) to ore carts
     
  32. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Lumberjacking and Mining are very similar. I would say that they should sell on the NPC all the different types of wood and ignots. Just sell it higher than what you would expect to pay a player.

    One of the problems, I think, with the scriptor vs. player, is the fact that you can't see or tell what you're going to mine or chop.

    It's also a major problem for the player. Let me give you an example: You want to mine some Val. So, now you take the numbers or the possibilities.
    Let's say there's 100,000 spots. 10 of the spots contain Val.

    Now, if you could see which ones had Val or Frostwood, then it would eliminate the problem because you could look for those types. A scriptor would not be able to look for those types. Only a human being would be able to see and find them.

    So, the simple solution is, to put them on a vendor but if you could mouse over a tree for example and it said frostwood tree or if you could see some kind of blue vein, visually, you could find the ore that you need.

    The trees that we have now are static. In the future, maybe 20 years, those will be actually trees that look like different types of trees.

    Someone will actually draw the frostwood tree, someone will actually draw the bloodwood tree and they will appear on the map. This only makes sense because that's the way things are. Think about it. If you wanted oak wood and oak trees gave oak wood, what kind of tree would you look for and chop at?
     
  33. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yes, make all ore and wood like the saltpeter so if you have the money you can buy or else you can go and mine/chop what you need :p
     
  34. angelus aconitum

    angelus aconitum Journeyman
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    So here's my examination from today:

    I just smelt the ore as it comes, so I do not combine large orges with small ores. I just smelt when my backpack is very close of being full.
    I only mined in one fel mining cave and I always mine the same distance and the same places.



    run 1: 1 propspectors tool (pt)
    run 2: 0 pt
    run 3: 1 pt
    run 4: 0 pt
    run 5: 0 pt

    the numbers are ingots, not ores:

    iron 1761, 2405, 1140, 2220, 2143
    dull 715, 62, 1132, 76, 125
    shadow 122, 150, 164, 211, 199
    copper 136, 74, 186, 140, 89
    bronze 145, 0, 166, 7, 0
    gold 0, 0, 0, 25, 0
    agapite 2, 98, 4, 88, 61
    verite 40, 54, 60, 33, 24
    valorite 22, 0, 38, 0, 0

    fire ruby 2, 0, 0, 2, 1
    perfect emerald 1, 2, 0, 2, 1
    turquoises 0, 2, 3, 0, 0
    dark saphire 0, 0, 0, 1, 0
    ecru citrine 0, 0, 1, 0, 0
    blue diamond 0, 0, 3, 0, 0

    a small piece of blackrock 3, 5, 7, 7, 8

    I will post more the next days, if I have the time to mine again ;)
     
  35. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    If you want a lot of high colored ingots. Attack Merchant ships and plunder them.


    Zosilems Quest in Ter Mur also a nice Option.

    And Ore elemenals are my personal favorit. :)
     
  36. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Good thing I picked up 60k of Val and 80k of verite from the great fall of 2012 last week.

    What they should do is make it 100% to smelt EVERYTHING at 105 mining. It was fine to lose 30-40% of your smelts when Valorite was easy to find via runebook but now to have to find it AND lose it smelting made it too rare.

    A simple assist from the devs would be to make it scale so that 105 mining gave you 100% smelt all ore.
     
  37. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    true, but way wrong....these things arent really for a dedicated miner/crafter, the merchant ships while not hard are a pain to sink and kill the crew, and you have to have a fairly decent amount of combat skill for the higher end elementals. It's way easier to get ore on a warrior now than it is on a miner, at least if you're not afking it.
     
  38. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    UO Dev need to set the ore on location and up the grade of the spawn this for both ore and lumber.

    I have hunted for ore inthe last few days and aside from the thieft of my accounts i have been mining my tush off on 3 shards. Way too much iron spots and not enough any other ore.
    And I have mining books of every cave and major spot both fel and tram, malas, tokuno,and Termur. Same goes for lumber.. its hell to get anything over heartwood and that few and far between. If not for my ore carts and stumps i'd be in a bind.

    This needs a major overhaul. And I dont mean a piddly amount of spawn increase ether. You made bods worth doing now give the other side a hand and fix the ore and lumber up to snuff.

    It's not bad enough when you do find the ore when smelting it you have a greater chance of failure even if your 105 mining (with the +5 gloves that is). In my opinion if your gm this means you dont fail or darn near ever (i can see a small chance of it but not to the point you loose 1/2 the ore each time!)

    I fear though this post and every other post is falling on deaf ears ...
     
  39. angelus aconitum

    angelus aconitum Journeyman
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    I don't know about you, but when I am mining I don't want to fight, I just want to mine.
    I don't want to kill elementals, I don't want to kill crews on ships, I just want to mine and want to have something like a fair amount of ores, also from the hard ones.

    Personally i like that the valorite and verite are so rare, so I would keep it the way it is.
     
  40. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    It's not gunna effect the rareity only the spot, I for one liked the old way we had it. A smidge of more ore would be nice. But I went mining today, every time i minied in malas i got 2 - 4 of the color and 12 - 16 iron. No matter what ore type was there Iron outweighed the colored mega.

    I dont mind that the odds of getting val or verite are spaced, but when i get 2 ore of val and 22 iron not once but for 3 hours thats a bit fustrating. This might not be happening on your shard but on many I play the odds of getting enough to fill a bod is rare. Dont hand me I am not mining in the right spots ether I mine all over the shard I am not afraid of fel mining and do alot of it.

    Ore needs a revamp plain and simple, lumber has needed it for ages. Scripters be damned, I need more colored ore!!
     
  41. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    What I notice is that even when I *do* find a valorite spot, I get 95% iron out of it, and only 1 or 2 large valorite ore.

    And I haven't found any frostwood since the randomization.
     
  42. angelus aconitum

    angelus aconitum Journeyman
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    I think you just need to go to fel mining caves.
    I stopped mining in tram and outside caves a few years ago. I know how mining in Malas, Ilsh or somewhere else in Trammel is, it's just ridiculous.
    Fel gives you double resources and in the caves there is alot more colored ores than anywhere else and the number of colored ores compared to iron in colored spots is somewhat around 50% (just my feeling).
    So just try it in Fel. I have mined 3 hours today and haven't seen any red (Europa).
     
  43. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Mining in Fel is great and all, double resources, but as far as I can remember there's never been any statement by the devs or definitive testing to prove whether the spawn rates are better in Fel vs. Tram or whether or not mining in caves is better than along the mountainside. I do recall that supposedly mining in dungeons was supposed to be a bit better but I can't find that info.
     
  44. Raptor85

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    it's actually random, facet doesnt matter, it may seem like more though because more popular mining spots in tram probably get mined until they switch back to iron then left that way. under the new system the best thing to do actually is just continually mine the same area and eventually it'll cycle through all ore types, but with how it's weighted you'll still only get 100 natural val per 10k ingots mined, it's pointless to search around though, just pick a spot and stay there and over the course of a hour or two you'll end up with the exact same results. That said best way on normal shards is human in fel, as you'll get the fel bonus + human bonus, still crappy rate but definitely would help (fel bonus obviously doesnt exist on siege though)
     
  45. angelus aconitum

    angelus aconitum Journeyman
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    From my experience, mining in fel caves is alot better than anywhere else.
    There are two caves which are really great, one of them is the cave near the swamp close to xroad, it's the smaller one of my favourites.

    And it'S the same on Siege, the same two caves give me the best results. I have mined in different places before, but always come back to those caves. Maybe it's just a imagination, hehehe.
     
  46. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    BTW, double resources in Fel doesn't equate exactly to 2x the ore and boards for the same time invested.

    You get 2x ore with each strike and 2x logs with each chop but you also have to go and drop off what you've gathered more often.

    Mining in Fel actually equates to about 50% to 75% more than in Tram depending upon how efficient your method is. This is based upon the same amount of time gathering in both facets and years of experience.
     
  47. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    if you do it smart it's indeed 2x, for instance the forge up by minoc with the cave behind it, you can mine there for hours smelting as you mine, and you can either use a bag of sending on the ingots or walk to the bank which is only about 3 screens away. The mountains by brit also have such spots but not with a bank so close. at either of them just park a blue beetle by the forge and mine away, filling the beetle up.

    I assure you though the resource switching is completely random, area does not matter, the malas mountains and fel caves you get almost exactly the same spread of ore types over a few hours of mining. Personally i used to enjoy mining in shame though as you could just follow through the paths on l1 setting the beetle to kill the occasional earth ele or two while mining it out, much easier than trying to remember what spots i've already cleared. Mobs are too dense and too tough in there for my guys now though :/
     
  48. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    mining in the new, tougher dungeons should give better results IMO but they need to test and make sure there aren't safe spots
     
  49. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Yes a Fire Beetle and a BoS will indeed be the most efficient way to mine for pure quantity.

    Before the introduction of the Commodity Deed box though, gathering tons of resources and sending them to the bank, for me at least, just created another PITA to move them to my house.

    Since I've busted out my lumberjack this last week or so, and I'm using my valorite ingots finally, I suppose it's about time to dust off my miner too.
     
  50. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    what is your template?