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More Layoffs at EA-Mythic: Any UO staff?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Coldren, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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  2. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    If you are tasked with an impossible job, what is the best solution?
     
  3. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    All I hear is an echo...echo...echo...

    Hopefully not. I hate layoffs.
     
  4. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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  5. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    its called cutting the fat :eyes:
     
  6. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    he is a larger fellow
     
  7. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I think the layoffs at this point mostly affect Warhammer Online. That game is down to like 4 servers and they are merging again.
     
  8. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Damage increases as rage builds.
     
  9. olduofan

    olduofan Guest


    LoL not what I meant I was told That a year before I got laid off by my HR department I was next on the lay-off go around. I was lucky I out lasted everyone in my department And Am Not A Kiss A$$ me and my co-works thought I would be first B/C I refused to bow down and I was the highest payed (most of had my luck suit on:lol:)
     
  10. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Thing is, last round of cuts we suddenly found UO sharing resources with WAR people - with subsequent totally predictable problems when they didn't understand what they were being told to support, or talk about on forums. They tried their best to learn fast, but with the best will in the world it generated problems, and I doubt it's any coincidence things like GM service seemed to drop in quality straight away, and are not showing many signs of recovery.

    In what substitutes for brains for EA business managers all mmos are the same in and thus all staff are interchangeble. Anyone who knows about the subject understands they are totally different things, but to a career obsessed corporate bean-counter with no grasp of what the products do or what their subscribers want, when he's told to save money reality and sense are totally irrelevant.
     
  11. Lost-Soul

    Lost-Soul Guest

    It is just EA's version of the BP gulf mess. Problems continue and they have no solutions.
     
  12. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    EA should take Mythic out behind their headquarters and put it out of our misery.

    Viva la BioWare?
     
  13. maroite

    maroite Guest

    My only hope would be that BioWare would take the 2D client to the same place and replace UO with a new client and same skill based system. New client as in a true 3D client.

    But, I don't have enough bottles for all the tears that would create. :sad3:
     
  14. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    All UO's current systems and complexities with the world detail of Mass Effect 2? Sign me up!

    Screw the whiners :flame:
     
  15. Omg that would be so cool, can you imagine walking around luna as if it were like wow? and standing beside dragons, that would be kick a$$ lol :grouphug:
     
  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I try to imagine it all the time..

    What would increase the subscription rate? Real 3d...

    Unfortunate but true.

    If UO had true 3d.... and the graphics to back that.... with all the current systems and all..... I believe it would outshine WoW within 2 years.

    Why? Content. That simple.


    But I'm not certain it could be done... I'm thinking the housing system would keep that from happening. And UO just wouldn't be the same if you couldn't design and deco your home. I'm thinking in order for you to play UO in 3d with the housing you'd have to have a monster pc like nothing available now. Just my thoughts.
     
  17. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I'm guessing that was fan made, based off the Third Dawn models..

    While crude (compared to other 3D MMOs) that puts every UO client to shame in terms of sheer potential.

    The servers already contain the world in 3D (everything is stored with X,Y,Z coordinates), its the clients that are woefully behind the times.

    Isometric doesn't make UO what it is. Its the history, systems, and sandbox nature that make it superior to other MMO offerings. A true 3D UO client would probably give WoW a decent competition.
     
  18. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    3D for a tile by tile gameplay = fail.
     
  19. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    If they honestly wanted to move forward with 3D they would have to dump the decrepit 2D client. Its the client thats holding things back, not the servers.
     
  20. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Wow...server status page shows 6 servers... They had like 60 servers globally at one point in time?

    How come we don't have a server status page for UO? The Warhammer page is very nicely done up though.

    Waste not, want not, if they decide to merge servers, maybe it would be a good option to also offer the Warhammer folks transfers of their remaining game time to UO? Give them 2 days for every day their have remaining, 3 even! So that they can get a feel of the game and can gather gear.
     
  21. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    And all the gameplay. You can't keep the tiles in 3D, it's ridiculous.
     
  22. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Sure you can keep tiles in 3D, it does work in other games. Just won't work if you have first person perspective.
     
  23. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Which other games? Turn by turn strategy games?
     
  24. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    You really only have to look at the current EC client and see that movement in 3D can be fluent even with tiles. Tiles doesn't matter as such, you will simply be contrained to moving a whole tile with every move, not precision movement.
     
  25. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Can you imagine trying to decorate a house with no tiles with which to align objects you place down? It would be madness.

    What they need is a client that looks and works the way Diablo III is going to work: isometric like UO but fully-3d, no tiles just freeform movement, etc. Then they can put in a tile-overlay system for help in things such as decorating houses.
     
  26. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    That's one thing UO will suffer from if they went 3d. All these lovely decorated homes would look great at 33.3 degrees or whatever, but the moment you move the camera perspective they'll look like trash. :(
     
  27. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Don't think that EA is likely to invest in a new client. The Enhanced Client was just released a few months ago. If UO survives a few more years (and I think it can), then perhaps they will consider a new client.
     
  28. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Uhm... Decorations would look better in 3D... Not worse.

    3D would allow for precise x,y,z object placement. The house decorator could activate an interface like in Second Life, allowing you to move the object in all 3 dimensions - and even rotate it.

    House decor would get more elaborate, not less.

    Things might look crappy at first after a conversion to a fully 3D client, but home owners would have their places sorted in a few days.

    Don't constrain your minds to 2D isometric limitations.
     
  29. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Subscription rate is always an issue, but personally id probably quit uo if it went 3d. Most the other games i play or played are all 3d now, and i guess i just like the nostalgia of the 2d classic client. We do need more players tho. I really think with some simple incentives, and some online advertising (i dont think ive Ever seen an ad for UO) would help this. And really im not a business pro or anything, but just wondering how much money EA could make with just adds for random stuff. Just my thoughts.
     
  30. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Wouldn't there be a problem with "items on the ground" in full 3D?
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I think a quality full 3D UO would blow everybody else away, including WoW. It is exactly that "something different" that so many are looking for, and not finding in new games, and thus just go back to WoW.
     
  32. Cal_Mythic

    Cal_Mythic Guest

    We are more than good here.
    Apologies for the delay ... been doing some blocking and tackling on other things.

    Trying to get an update letter out to you guys today.

    Wish me luck!

    - c
     
  33. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Excellent. Glad you folks weren't affected.
     
  34. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Psst... Cal? A list of current devs would be nice... and while you're at it, you could bring some of them to post here...
     
  35. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Except somewhere in the whatever that is the group that houses Mythic and BioWare, they're technically already the same studio, and the worst thing that could happen (next to EA purchasing BioWare, of course) to SWTOR (and UO) would be for them to end up sharing resources. Not saying that WAR having to share resources with UO is what killed WAR, because it's not. Of all things, I hope WAR strengthened the axiom that is true in the MMO market today and they prevent themselves from fubaring SWTOR by forgetting it: You CANNOT release an incomplete game at launch and then patch it up to speed later; players will get bored and move on if the game's not what you promised prior to launch.
     
  36. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    Yes a list please. A lot of us want to follow the devs. You're sorta like superstars. :party:
     
  37. I, too, am an advocate of the 2D client. It's UO....changing it would basically be a new game. Attracting old players is probably easier than attracting new players...and it's a rather simple goal to achieve.

    Want more players, EA?

    -Fix resource scripting
    -Fix speedhacking
    -Fix known bugs that have been around for ages.
    -Run live events *without* adding new content until bugs are fixed.
    -Open a classic shard ( One SP ruleset, one UO:R Ruleset...that covers everybody)

    Basically...QUIT ADDING NEW CONTENT TO A SEVERELY BROKEN GAME UNTIL YOU FIX IT!!!

    After all of these are done, take the instant cash flow from the classic servers and general population increase to fund a true 3D client. You can *never* remove the 2D client without likely killing the game, but you can certainly create a 3D client.

    Rewrite the server code module by module. Tell the players you are doing this and they will allow you the time needed so long as you give them some bits to chew on. Seperate client dependent and client independent code completely. Re-write the 2D code and 3D code so at every location where it is referenced you can if( 2DClient ) or if( 3DClient).

    The problem is they have been trying (for several years) to work with the code already in place. There have been certain things written outside the scope of these forums that are essentially that....a complete rewrite of the code.

    You think a rewrite would take a long time? Not as long as the time devoted to them figuring out what everybody else in the past did...

    Heck...opensource it and let me help :-D.
     
  38. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Tell me you don't mean you want to stalk them.... ?!?!?!?!
     
  39. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Not at all. In fact, anyone who has ever played Star Wars Galaxies prior to them ripping the guts and turning it into a leveler knows the beauty that could be UO as a fully 3D game.

    In truth, the only hurdle they'd have to cross would be keeping customizable housing, but I fully believe it could be done (and if they ever choose to go that route, I could certainly provide them some design initiative for it).

    SWG was absolutely beautiful as a game that showed where UO could go. They had the same base level of customization for your character (ie: stuff that could be dyed, and in fact, stuff that could be colored in 2 or 3 manners, meaning that if it was a shirt, you could color trim, shirt, and maybe collar). It also allowed you to build furniture, grab items, and so forth, and you could then go and decorate your house. Early on, much like UO, they had not yet implemented true item placement, but after they implemented it, you had full control over X, Y, and Z axis placement AS WELL AS item rotation.

    Now, SWG's housing was (is) static designs, but wow, you could really design a house for a unique feel. It had all of the character of UO, but in Star Wars flavor.

    I would absolutely LOVE a fully 3D UO, as long as it stays to the sandbox heart of UO and didn't become World of Ultima Online. That level of customization (something, by the way that was being left out of UIX) is what makes UO unique. They should never lose this.
     
  40. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    The unfortunate truth is, there probably won't ever be a WoW-killer. Blizzard has that kind of mass appeal because they're well known for a quality game, and they take the time to learn from the mistakes of others. The first words out of my mouth when I finally got around to playing WoW were, "This is Everquest... done right."

    The WoW-killer is likely to come from Blizzard itself.

    However, this does not mean there won't be other successful MMOs out there. I think a 3D UO with a modern interface, cleaned up gameplay (not revamped... I think UO's gameplay is very special in and of itself, and if they try to turn it into something else, they're killing what makes UO different from everyone else), and stellar graphics would breath great new life into the game, and it might cross the million mark itself.

    And really, while I know most companies want to shoot for multi-million sales, even a game with 500,000 active subscribers isn't a bad thing, and would certainly be more than worthwhile supporting.

    Unfortunately, regardless of NetDragon's new take on UO (which, I'll be honest, scares the hell out of me), I don't see this happening at this point. The EC is more than enough proof that right now, the powers that be cannot bring UO into the 21st century as a mass appeal game. As a niche game, it might survive for another five, ten years, but it does need a breath of new customers. I just hope it comes through good, quality updates to the game, and not something silly and temporary like a "classic" server.
     
  41. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Warhammer Online – Play the ENDLESS FREE trial!
    no wonder someone got laid off, duh
     
  42. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, it's not really all that simple. If it were, people would have come back in larger droves to check out each expansion. Many people have simply moved on, and while some returned to check out KR, sadly, the client probably did more to detract than bolster potential returning customers.

    There may never be a 100% fix for that resource scripting, and fixing that won't exactly bring people flying back. Fixing speedhacking might bring back some of the old PvPers, but I suspect most have moved on to different pastures. They do work on fixing old bugs; sometimes their priorities are screwed up. Live events are a good idea, but not at the expense of new content. And a classic shard isn't going to be UO's savior.

    Unless it's a classic server, right? That would require them to work on "new content."

    In the meantime, your suggested moratorium on new content would leave the game in a state of stagnancy that would cost customers, not get them to return. The MMO beast is one that requires new content to keep players interested. EVERY MMO out there understands that axiom. Why we keep shouting around UO to stop introducing new content until the bugs are fixed is beyond me. They need to find a balance of doing both, not one at the expense of the other.

    The number of people who return for a "classic server" won't be enough to pay for the development of a truly 3D client. Developing one would require EA to say, "Okay, the project is green, go grab some developers." But... they probably never will. Consider that Ultima Worlds Online: Origin was canceled. Ultima IX: Odyssey was canceled. The 3D client was scrapped. The KR client was largely scrapped. The EC client is more than a year in beta and no signs of exiting beta any time soon. We know that there was at least one 3D version of UO in the works but then that became "too daunting" or some such thing (ie: the people working on it lost their focus and instead of developing something for UO, nothing happened at all). And right now, UO's "new" development is being handled by an entirely different company. None of this spells, "EA will give us new money for a 3D client," and relying on the kind of people that would have to come back to a "classic" server just isn't realistic.

    They shouldn't have any 2D and 3D code splitting necessary. The server is the server and runs the game. It doesn't matter if it's a 2D client, a 3D client, or a text-based interface, the client's soul purpose in life is to translate that information for the server to create a game. The server should not behave differently based on which client is attached to it. I will, however, agree that they need to rewrite some of the server code.

    I suspect that in some areas there have been complete code rewrites. We know the combat system was completely rewritten around the time of AoS. What they need is better coding practices, better internal documentation, and better focus on cleaning it all up.

    That's a silly bit of reasoning there. If that were true, no one would be able to keep an MMO up and running because every time someone on the team changed, they'd have to rewrite the code so that someone else could "understand" it. Again, they just need better practices.

    Dear god, no. OpenSource is not the answer to every problem in the world.
     
  43. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Illusory correlation. The Endless Trial isn't what caused the layoff. What caused the layoff was what caused the Endless Trial.

    The game just didn't cut it.
     
  44. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I can't argue with anything you said there. But I meant items on the ground outside, in dungeons, etc. This to me adds a whole lot of "sandbox" to the game. SWG had it in houses only, right? From what little I played, I saw very little in those houses too. Although I think that was before they gave it the full support you mentioned.

    If there's one huge factor that "sandbox" can offer, it's the feeling of "being there" as opposed to just playing a game by the numbers. By placing an item on the ground, or picking one up, it's a subconscious thing, suddenly the player is "there". It's not just a backdrop. Immersion shoots up on the barometer. Most people don't even think about this, but in my mind it's a forgotten, but critical, thing.

    Next comes, you know, setting that stuff on fire and things. :thumbup1:

    Edit to add: There is a solution in case this is a problem. Stacking into containers that look like piles of similar things, within radius.
     
  45. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Lol....you think the game is dead now...
     
  46. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    Just so you know, new content and fixing core game bugs is not done by the same person. If I stopped doing new content, I would just be fired and the things you pointed out would get done at the same pace they are getting done now.

    We do have people working on those other problems, those problems are just hard to squash... especially when they involve changing core functionality of the game. Sometimes we create a fix for something and it breaks something that seemed completely unrelated. It's just the reality of digging into 12 years worth of code. I apologize that some people have found ways to cheat at UO, we will continue to try to stop them. I have always been baffled by the cheater mentality... is Chess still Chess if my side is set up normally and you set up your side with nothing but queens? How can you say you won? How can you say we were even playing Chess?

    On the other hand, every time we put out new content people come out and play... so excuse me, but I'm going to continue to put in new content.
    :thumbup1:
     
  47. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    :thumbsup:
     
  48. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
  49. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Lol, good call i suppose. Mark, since you develop new content a few questions.

    Anything on the horizon for making clothing (robes) alterable to a different style, and or piece? Like maybe make a robe alterable to a kilt, which makes it so you cant wear a robe?

    i feel like dressing like a trammy while i stomp faces again =(.
     
  50. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    I'd rather have new, ever changing things to do with some bugs here and there, than a perfectly robust quickly getting boring game.

    keep going at it.