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More talk about building community with a focus on the guild

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks for reading.

    As has been opined over in numerous threads, the game has undergone numerous changes over the years, some good some maybe not so, and we seem to have lost something along the way that was intregal to the games initial success.

    This is not intended as a "Lets play UO the old school way!" thread. So lets please try to stay on topic.

    Follow with me if you will, as a new player I spent I couldn't tell you how many hours trying to figure out the game on my own. With very little actual success I might add. It wasn't until I discovered a guild, or rather until someone recruiting for a guild discovered me, that UO really began to get good.

    So, simply put my question is this.

    Do you still see the guild as a cornerstone of building community in the game, or have we allowed wiki's and forums to take their place?

    Since building community is a requirement (attract new players, train new players, keep new players, ad infinitum) for the success of the game: then what could be done at a Developer level to ease the transition from solo player to guilded player.

    What could, should? be done to facilitate, and or reward guild leaders (Yes, I said reward, admin takes time and means less time to play) and more importantly the guilds (collectively and individual players)that take an active hand in their shard and promote relationships with other players and groups that live there.

    What information could/should be available through non biased sources to help players sift through guilds active on their shards so that they might make an educated decision in finding a group of friends to play with.

    Personally I have a whole host of ideas that I think are good. But that doesn't make them so. And before I just start just posting, "Hey, lets do this!" I'd love to hear your thoughts.

    Thanks [​IMG]
     
  2. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    I see the existence of trammel and fel on the same shard (or the existence of trammel at all even if it was by itself) in direct conflict with such important aspects of any MMO as building community and player justice.
     
  3. Repowski

    Repowski Guest

    I hope some good conversation comes as a result of this thread.

    Community and player interaction is a very large percentage of the draw for people to play a game online, and I feel like UO has been doing its best for many years to enable players to become more and more independent... effectively killing community, and thus killing the game.

    Its not entirely the devs fault. Its not like the things they've been making along these lines didn't come at the request of players; people have been asking for enhancements which reduce the risk of the game, or make themselves stronger since the very first day of gameplay. Problem is, with 10 years now of granting these wishes, we've successfully all built a game which has evolved back to single player type game.

    An individual can now create characters which can beat up on some of the toughest monsters by themselves, gain enough gold on their own to buy anything they want, make items which never break (and can be repaired by the owner forever)... etc. etc.

    Long gone are the days of people actually needing to find a professional in a field for help. Or a group of friends to go do... just about anything.

    One of the few things still breathing life into these aspects are live events... and what do people do? They complain because they can't do everything they want to on their own, and smear the devs all over the boards.

    Folks, we need ideas and development which encourages people to interact with each other. With any interaction, there is the chance for a small group of people to take advantage of the system... but we MUST live with it for the sake of the game. Otherwise, this game will completely die out...
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I help new players out regularly.
    I teach them to mark and recall.
    Set up runebooks and moongate lessons.

    Once they are mobile, most people do well. With a little gold help they tend to move along nicely.

    The problem for me is the game has pretty much become a solo game. Dont flame me but with 7 characture slots, soulstones, and the like... You pretty much can have everything on one account.

    Now once you learn some merchanting skills and get gold, you can uber yourself up. Insurance, dying is pretty much pointless or a nuisance now a days. You dont need a buddy anymore. Die, rez, click, and your back up.

    Now you can pretty much go a do what you want alone.

    Aside from peerless and maybe champspawns. You can play on your own.

    Dont get me wrong its nice going to Moonglow with a group. But unless you choose to make effort for roleplaying guild, pvp guild, or heavy hitting monster guild... you can play solo.

    So my point.
    Community is out there. You just have to choose to find it. Because of the game changes over the year, there isnt to much push (from the game) to be community focused. But that doesnt mean community isnt out there.

    I see guilds all the time at Haven helping players.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In the end its up to the player. Some people are closed minded, some people are Jerks, some people are antisocial,some people are aggressive, some people are people's people, some are happy bright spirited people, Everyone has their own views on things. And that is not going to help matters or change matters untill a middle ground is found,when every one can say "Lets agree that we disagree and find a common solution" then things can move forward. untill then there will be a stalemate.

    Take PvP Guilds for example on pacific every guild knows each other we fight against each other every day, We post on rival guilds fourms from talkin smack to stupid word games. We show off pics, ask advise. Even tho we are rivals we all still try to help each other out be it from needing sleeves to something personal. And for the most part I feel it stems from respect of playing the game against or together for so many years. Respecting the idea that Im not having fun if it wasnt for them. Even tho it dosnt show in game (we are rivals of course) its still there. To me thats a community.

    So yes I do feel Guilds help Build communities.
     
  6. Kat SP

    Kat SP Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    What information could/should be available through non biased sources to help players sift through guilds active on their shards so that they might make an educated decision in finding a group of friends to play with.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Is there a guild for new players on your shard? We have a guild called NEW [Newborn on Siege] that is a huge asset, IMO, to new players and our shard as a whole. I haven't met more than a handful of players or so, that DIDN'T start out in NEW.

    It's basically a guild for new players that offers membership for a players first 30 days on the shard. They can take as much help as they are inclined to receive. Most are given basic equipment, scrolls, weapons, jewels, LRC, etc. There is a guildhouse where they can work skill or craft, make cloth, etc. They also have a website/forums where they can ask questions, get advice on working skill, templates, etc. There is also a forum there that has information on The Guilds of Siege. Each leader has the option of adding a description of their guild, contact information, guildhouse location, etc.

    I have found their website very helpful! During my three years on Siege, I cannot tell you how many members have come to us from NEW. If the player has difficulty reaching me, the guild leader herself, will contact me and help facilitate a meeting.

    In return, many of our guilds donate starter equipment and scrolls as described above. I make crafting tools as needed for them. A lot of us collect requested items as they are needed. All the leader has to do is post to our forum on Stratics or send a few ICQ's and its a done deal. The new guild is supported by the community and is run by some very dedicated leaders from several time zones.

    Something like this is invaluable to a guild leader! Its also something that could work on any shard and probably either facet. Most players on our shard will help a new player get in touch with a NEW leader, take them to the guildhouse so they can catch up with someone later, or send them a link to their forum in hopes of getting them started.

    Here's a link to their forum if you'd like to check it out and see what I mean.

    NEW Guild
    You may have to register to read their forums.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    NEW guild has been on Siege for a long time. I was a member almost 5 years ago. I asked for a shovel and went from there. *nods*
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I see the existence of trammel and fel on the same shard (or the existence of trammel at all even if it was by itself) in direct conflict with such important aspects of any MMO as building community and player justice.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And I see this as utterly ridiculous. As a player who played from Beta on, I remember how difficult it was to get new players to stick with UO in the Fel only days. They already felt behind the curve, especially when more established players would come along and take what they worked so hard to get. It wasn't until Trammel was released that these players returned to UO and stuck around.

    If we're talking about something to bring new players in, going Felucca only is not the way to go.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Sorry, I was gonna wait patiently for a day or two more. But we can either feed the trolls or have constructive conversation regarding what we think can build community and retain and build playerbase.

    Gonna be hard to accomplish both.

    Some good responses, mostly along the lines of getting players started so far. Any other thoughts about how guilds can be a useful tool, or are we gonna leave it at initial training?

    Dont forget, if the guilds are a tool in themselves for community building, then what could be done, or how can they best use the tools at hand to facilitate success of the goal.

    There's a lot of experience in these boards. But I realize this is not a "light and fluffy" topic.
     
  10. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    So because you disagree with me I'm a troll huh? I wasn't trolling, just stating the truth. There's no point in discussing building community when tram and fel together results in a divided community and when tram presents little reason to build community and interferes with player justice, which should be a part of any strong community. You can talk about this and that while ignoring the real issues all day long...it's not going to change anything. Just like thieves talking about this and that isn't going to accomplish anything when the real issue is insurance.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It is so very tempting not to respond at all.

    I apologize profusely if I made remarks that offended you. I understand you regard this entire topic as pointless and a waste of time.

    That being the case. I would wholeheartedly appreciate your allowance for those of us who still wish to exercise focussed effort in an endeavor to produce something better than what exists currently.

    With all appropriate thanks for your efforts.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So because you disagree with me I'm a troll huh? I wasn't trolling, just stating the truth. There's no point in discussing building community when tram and fel together results in a divided community and when tram presents little reason to build community and interferes with player justice, which should be a part of any strong community. You can talk about this and that while ignoring the real issues all day long...it's not going to change anything. Just like thieves talking about this and that isn't going to accomplish anything when the real issue is insurance.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    While not very eloquent what he says has some truths in it. Tram and fel are seperate enviornments and might be better seperated. Maybe. Thats up to debate. Thieves wanting to change stuff is worthless with insurance. Total truth.

    The garbage about tram no giving no reason for strong community is totall bullcrap though. Then again, I'm sure we all know how often Mas is in tram to see it for himself.

    The player justice part is part truth as well. Player justice is nothing more than might make right so long as there is no penalty to being red. So in the same manner than thieves talking about change without insurance involved the same can be applied to player justice when there is no real difference between red and blue but the number of kills and the manner in which they were conceived. Red/blue is so old and washed out a concept it doesn't get repeated in any games any longer.

    There are many guilds across the shards that do much in the way of building community. Most of them are tram guilds as well. They hold scavenger hunts, archery turnies, chicken fights, Taming functions, Bagball tournies and much much more. Anyone who claims there is no community or it doesn't exist because of ruleset is just talking out of their ass. Which is often crowded by hats as I understand [​IMG]
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree. There are a great number of things that go on community wise.... all you need do is check it out...... Auctions, games, tournaments...... all sorts of things.... Roleplay is still alive and kicking... with wars, murders, spies, council meetings, town hall meetings...... parties gathering to stave off an invasion....

    They go to moonglow, travel to doom..... gather keys to a peerless..... even hold a bazaar..... a festival..... dozens of things... the community is what the people make it..... if you sit around waiting for others to do things then you sit alone..... if you get up, get out.... and meet folk..... read the boards, pick up a book..... check the calendar...... check your shard listing..... hang out in Haven.. get involved..... then you'll be involved...

    If you waiting for others to come and tell you to join them..... you may be waiting a LONG LONG time..... I got involved when I read the boards some 6 or 7 years ago.... and I've been involved in the action on Great Lakes ever since.... If you feel the community is "closed" or isn't very easy to join it's usually only because you make it that way.......

    If you talk to the people who are involved you may find they are more than willing to assist you in joining... there are dozens of guilds and communities out there.... they do things every day..... It's just a matter of finding the right one .....

    Certainly there are things that EA/Devs COULD do to make things better and encourage communities and the growth and development of communities..... and to encourage folk to work together... but really in my opinion the biggest beauty of UO..... Is it's lack of structure.

    The foundation is laid to build a community upon... it's up to the players to construct it and make it work...... Certainly it would be nice if there were more dungeons that required more of a group effort.... truth is the way monsters and weapons are now a days... It's far too easy for folk to "solo" things...... heck folk even complain because their character can't be ultra ubber powerful and do peerless solo!!!!! which to me screams DEVS please for the love of all that is great in UO..... up the difficulty of the peerless..... AS they are MEANT to be done AS a GROUP..... and if you don't have a group then that's your choice..... DON'T do Peerless then...

    I'd like to see folk lined up to get repairs at the smithy again..... There are many things I would like to be concidered for the game that would help to build a community... but fact of the matter is there are so many out there now who scream and whine when they can't make a MMO into a solo game..... Now in my personal opinion there should be things in Uo that you CAN solo ....... but there should also be things in game that REQUIRE guild action..... Again that's my opinion.

    But mostly what it all boils down to is the community is only as strong as it's members....
     
  14. Not sure I would reward gm's and I am one, but creating tools to make a gm's job easier would be a wonderful addition. A guild panel that allowed for notes, to set if characters were mains/alts to something more robust and user friendly.

    If a reward is needed, perhaps having stone mason's start making guild stones so gm's could create a place of significance for their guilds. Allow for a Guild Shield or something to be developed smith made, tinker engraved. Metal dye tub so guilds can really have guild colours again with out tokuno dyes.