1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Moving shots needs a slight nerf =)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by NB-Cats, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. NB-Cats

    NB-Cats Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    0
    A friend of mine has been doing 35-40 dmg vs my 65 physical moving shots with a heavy crossbow.

    That doesn't include the 6 to 9 dmg fireball that can hit me.

    Does anyone else find that over powering?
     
  2. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    What the xbow needs a nerf in is in dismount. Dismount shouldn't even exist. It should be replaced by another special.

    As far as moving shot, I don't see it as overpowered in particular. I see specials in general as overpowered. They should cost real mana. They should cost their base mana cost. Certain skills (including human +20 points bonuses) should not add mana cost.

    LMC too is a problem. This mod needs removal or capped much lower. It's a problem with both specials and spell casters.

    Let's make sure we address the real issues when nerfing something. It's not moving shot that's overpowered. Most specials themselves are not overpowered. The ability to use them at a mana cost below what was intended is the problem, as it is also with spells. Specials and spells should have to be timed, not spammed with a huge supply of mana.
     
  3. I feel like people who play mages a lot hate archers and want to see them further nerfed at every turn.

    Archers already suck enough. Their swingspeed situation is such that you can burn a whole heartwood kit and not come up with a SINGLE usable bow, IE: all bows produced are disqualified due to inappropriate swingspeed.

    Especially now that you have to add med (or perhaps focus) to have significant mana regen, and Archers' templates are that much more torn apart, yeah go ahead and nerf Archers some more so that we can all just throw Archery onto soulstones and make DP fencers instead.
     
  4. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    My post isn't biased. I am an archer. Also even if I was a mage, which I'm not, you'll notice I think just as much about lmc and spells...it's also a problem.

    And yah, swing speed practically being a requirement on most weapons these days sucks. But that's not really just archers is it? I thought that was a problem with all warrior skills. The simple truth is item-based combat is bs. We'll never have balance with the current system. Most item mods either need removed from the game or capped much lower.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ALOT of stuff about today's Archers is overpowered. Consider this, a Archer with the same STR/Anat/Tact/Dam Inc will do more damage with a Heavy X-Bow than a Swordsman who has invested 100.0 Skillpoints into LJ can do with a Ornate Axe (The hardest hitting Swordsman Wep). A X-Bow has lower Minimum Damage than Ornate Axe, but higher Max Damage .

    Archers can fire on the run from range with Moving Shot, which barely consumes any Mana and the negative to HCI while doing it doesn't seem to function.

    Runic Crafted Bows can have the "Balanced" property, which allows the Archer to drink a pot with the 2 handed bow equipped. No other Wep Skill has "Balanced" Property.

    Runic Crafted Bows can not only have a Hit Effect like Lightning, but can have a effect unique to bows called "Velocity". The farther the Archer is from there victim the more damage Velocity does. Velocity can stack along with another Hit Effect as well. I've seen a Yumi with both High % Lightning and High % Velocity and 30% SSI/40% Dam Inc. A Double Shot with that Yumi would be almost insta death.

    With the Double Shot feature of the Yumi, there are no 2 seperate "Attack Rolls". If the first arrow hits, the second arrow is guaranteed to hit. A high Dam Inc Yumi is lethal with Double Shot.

    The Armor Pierce ability of the Yumi is different from an Armor Ignore because it consider's your' opponents Resists at half instead of negated. Thing is, there is no Cap on how much damage a Armor Pierce can do, so a Armor Pierce with a high Dam Inc Yumi/High Skill Archer can EASILY do alot more damage than an AI.

    Archer's are capable of having 40% SSI or 60% Dam Inc on a Runic Crafted Bow if Ash or Yew is used. Only other Weps that can have that are Q-Staffs, Bokutos, Gnarled Staffs, Wildstaffs and Clubs, which are already fast, so the extra SSI does no good on most of them (Only one of those weps that would recieve much of a benefit from SSI is the Gnarled Staff). 40% SSI on a Heavy X-Bow is insane however, it allows a High DEX/Stam Archer (Which is most of them) to fire off 40+ damage shots very quickly.
     
  6. "Let's make sure we address the real issues when nerfing something."

    Let's make sure we keep PvM in mind when talking about nerfs that affect both playstyles. Neither Dismount nor LMC are an issue in PvM. Conidering the massive nerfs to both Mana Regen and weapon leeches, LMC needs to be left alone as far as PvM is concerned.
     
  7. <blockquote><hr>


    Archers can fire on the run from range with Moving Shot, which barely consumes any Mana and the negative to HCI while doing it doesn't seem to function.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, it doesn't consume much mana, but consider this. To actually get your target you are going to have to shoot more than one arrow while moving. Also remember that constantly using the same special move over and over, the amount of mana that you need to use it increases every time. So after using the move 3 times, you will nearly be out of mana, depending on the template. To not burn mana like that, you will have to wait a little bit. And that little bit can be enough for them to heal.
     
  8. "With the damage you people do in PvM mana leech should leech mana back to you just fine, no? "

    For archers? You know, the ones that got nerfed the hardest? No.



    "Necro-PvMers also have wraith form which will leech all the mana you need."

    Then maybe it's wraith form that needs nerfing and not LMC. Not everyone plays a Necro nor should they have to in order to have mana.


    "And why wouldn't LMC be an issue in PvM?"

    Do you hear any monsters complaining?


    "Why should you be able to spam spells/specials in PvM?"

    Archers aren't spamming anything. Again, they're the ones that got nerfed the hardest.


    "Why should PvM be easy?"

    You obviously don't fight what I fight. My PvM is never easy.


    "Why shouldn't you have to kill monsters with others more instead of being able to kill even the toughest on your own?"

    Why would you want to take away one of the biggest differences between UO and all those other games? Forced interaction is not a good thing, and is the primary reason people leave WoW. High end PvM is the end game for PvM'rs, and being forced to group to do it would be copying WoW.


    "Why do PvMers always say "so long as you keep nerfs away from PvM" like there's nothing in PvM that ever needs nerfing and any overpowered aspects of the game should remain in PvM?"

    Maybe it's because PvP'rs forget that monsters have thousands of hit points, can deal almost an entire character's worth of damage before a single bandage could go off, and can move at speeds that not even speedhackers can match.

    Yeah, maybe that's it.....


    "I know: to make it easier to kill the monsters."

    Again, you obviously aren't fighting what I'm fighting.


    "Many PvMers seem annoyed by the constant PvPer "balance this, balance that" but I, for one, am annoyed by the constant PvMer "nothing needs nerfing in PvM" crap."

    And I'm annoyed by the constant PvP'r that keeps trying to force PvP nerf crap on PvM as if they were the same.

    They're not, for just a few of the reasons I listed above.
     
  9. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    Was he wearing quiver of rage?
     
  10. <blockquote><hr>

    Was he wearing quiver of rage?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    *coughs* was WHO?
    This has nothing to do with a particular event. Just the way archery is now....
     
  11. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    Oh, I was just trying to ask if the Quiver of Rage/Damage issue was ever fixed with moving shot........
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    A friend of mine has been doing 35-40 dmg vs my 65 physical moving shots with a heavy crossbow.

    That doesn't include the 6 to 9 dmg fireball that can hit me.

    Does anyone else find that over powering?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Forgive me if this is incorrect, but damage is capped at 35 against 70 resists isn't it? So with your 65 resist wouldn't the 35-40 be correct?
     
  13. yes lets nerf us archers more...hell lets make them as useful as rangers, would you stop b*tchin then? nope you would say how they can set up camp 2 fast...friggin lame...and 2 the person cryin about balanced...do you see any one handed bows? nope didn't think so...if you want to drink pots get rid of your shield, we are forced to have both hands tied up.

    waits for flames.........
     
  14. NB-Cats

    NB-Cats Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    0
    The question was regarding moving shot and only moving shot.

    If someone can do 45 dmg with moving shot vs 65 physical, do you consider that overpowered?
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The question was regarding moving shot and only moving shot.

    If someone can do 45 dmg with moving shot vs 65 physical, do you consider that overpowered?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Goose, you aren't going to get a lot of agreement on the issue even though you are right. Already several posters do not pvp exclusively, and a few don't do it at all.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If you use a Special Move within 3 seconds of using a Special, the Mana cost doubles. With 120 Archery and Human JoAT, or 300 Total Skillpoints in certain Skills, the -10 to Special Cost makes Moving Shot cost 5 Mana, 10 Mana if chained. Add 40% LMC to that, Moving Shot takes 3 Mana, takes 6 when Chained. Really, how many 30-45 Damage Moving Shots do you need to kill someone with 100-120 Health? Especially if that Heavy X-Bow has a Hit Effect as well.
     
  17. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    The question was regarding moving shot and only moving shot.

    If someone can do 45 dmg with moving shot vs 65 physical, do you consider that overpowered?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Goose, you aren't going to get a lot of agreement on the issue even though you are right. Already several posters do not pvp exclusively, and a few don't do it at all.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Quoted for truth. I only play my archer when I don't feel like having to put much effort in fighting because playing an archer, imo is UO easy mode. And yes, moving shot is overpowered in my book as well. Hope that helps answer your question.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "Forgive me if this is incorrect, but damage is capped at 35 against 70 resists isn't it? So with your 65 resist wouldn't the 35-40 be correct?"

    Nope. AI and Criticals are capped at 35 Damage. Heavy X-Bows and X-Bows have such a high Base Damage that they can bypass that with just a normal shot if the person has high Tact.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This is at 146 STR/105.0 Tact/GM Anat, 88% Dam Inc with the Heavy X-Bow, 85% with the X-Bow.
    I can fire that Heavy X-Bow every 2.25 Secs, every 2 Secs if i use Divine Fury. There are some Archers out there with 180 Stamina, which they can fire every 1.75 Secs if they have 40% SSI on there Heavy X-Bow. There are some Bows out there that put mine to shame.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [​IMG]

    I have never done that much damage even with concussion blows :/
    This kid is full of it and must just be mad about getting owned by an archer XD

    That cross is only for conc'n the heck outa people and can't remember coming close to 65...
     
  20. correct me if i am wrong, but a concussion blow with a hit lightning/fireball with velocity could do 65, right?

    but yes, this was about the moving shot with a heavyxbow, which with those two mods could be ~60 damage hits on the run :/
     
  21. Moving shot was supposed to have a hit chance penalty per design.

    Clearly that penalty didnt make it into the game or is buggy.

    You can hit as well as normal shots if not more accurate, not the other way around.

    A firm hci penalty for moving shot would be best solution.
     
  22. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    45
    Not even.......skills are skills. Archery doesn't get to use Best Weapon Skill right? It's archery, that's why. I mean, a real archer can ride and fire. It's physically possible.......Can an archer use a shield, heck no.

    The heavy crossbow.....you know how slow this thing is?? slowwwwwwwwww

    Here's what players need to do,......THINK. Before the game became an item based game, to appease the brats.......one actually had to think, improvise, and use fighting tactics in UO.

    Now, with all the arty super-duper-uber--goobers out there, they think, I have my suit of destruction on!!...If it fails, then damn it, nerf my problems away!!

    No, some players need to learn to think.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    RTLPFC...

    Thread cleaned.

    1) It really is possible to disagree on a subject without calling each others' sexual preferences, manliness, and/or veteran status into question. Honestly.

    2) Everyone with an active Stratics forums account is entitled to share their opinion here or in any thread, regardless of whether another poster deems that person's opinion as valid or not. No one here, aside from Stratics Staff, is to tell another poster where they can or cannot post. Such behavior is ridiculous... This is not a gradeschool playground where posters can bully each other.

    Keep it civil...
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I have never done that much damage even with concussion blows :/
    This kid is full of it and must just be mad about getting owned by an archer XD

    That cross is only for conc'n the heck outa people and can't remember coming close to 65...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    lol coming from the guy who wears legs of ember to pvp. Just because you can't hit 65, doesn't mean it can't happen, just means you have crappy gear. Are you a stealth archer?
     
  25. How much does he do to you with 70 phys?

    I did moving shot for 40 on a guy once but the next person I did it on (using the same bow) only did 20. Either theres a huge difference in that 5 resists (doubt it) or theres some bug/inconsistancy with the bow/special.

    I think the mana doubling per shot should offset it's power, plus a heavy has only a 7 tile range I think, how much does he do using a comp too at 65 &amp; 70?
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What about this.....

    since you dont swing a bow.....get rid of swing speed increase......see if archery is better after that.....if not.....reverse and think again.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A Hit from a Crossbow with Lightning/Velocity/Conc Blow would be devastating. Conc Blow does damage based on the difference between Current Life/Mana. Hit from X-Bow/Lightning/Velocity would knock the crap out of someone's health, if they have high Mana, Conc Blow would do a large amount of damage. X-Bows are also used for Mortal Strikes to keep someone from healing.

    A hit from a Heavy X-Bow with Lightning/Velocity would do at least 50-60 damage (Considering Heavy X-Bow would do 30-40, Lightning and Velocity would both do about 10 damage each), and that can be on the run with Moving Shot.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "The heavy crossbow.....you know how slow this thing is?? slowwwwwwwwww"

    Halberds are slow as hell too. They're a joke now. Let's do a little comparison.

    With 150 STR/120.0 Tact/120.0 Anat/GM LJ/100% Dam Inc, a Halberd has a Damage Potential of 71-75.
    With 150 STR/120.0 Tact/120.0 Anat/100% Dam Inc, a X-Bow has a Damage Potential of 71-87.
    With 150 STR/120.0 Tact/120.0 Anat/100% Dam Inc, a Heavy X-Bow has a Damage Potential of 79-95.

    To give you an even better idea, take for example Swordsmanship's most powerful weapon, the Ornate Axe.
    With 150 STR/120.0 Tact/120.0 Anat/GM LJ/100% Dam Inc, a Ornate Axe has a Damage Potential of 76-85.

    And if you noticed, that's with the Swordsman spending an extra 100.0 Skillpoints into LJ just for extra damage, and the Archers still outdamage them. Get my point?
     
  29. frankieowns

    frankieowns Guest

    i havent maxed out strenght since i depend on stamina and swingspeed but in my opionion as pvper i know hxbow is way to much damage considering the speed i swing on it i dont see anyone surviving my damage with running shot unless they have parry and more means then one way to heal.

    and no i dont use hitspell weapons for running shot since it slows you down when the spell actully hit.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    hehehe, what you want me to put on an HCI suit? Hes 120 archery, 120 anatomy, 120 tactics I dont need much HCI I can toss whatever I want on as long as its a 70's suit...

    Don't hate on him you know you wish you had a 3x legendary archer XD

    With his suit he has 145 dex and 125 str at full 70's with 115 magic resist, no he doesn't chug and people still can't kill him, imagine if he chugged like everyone else :O Just so hard to give up my hard hitting crossbow for some balanced POS..
     
  31. Wow, a simple thread about moving shot and everybody comes out here whining about archery. How about we just go and nerf every time something gets fixed. Archery was absolutely horrible for pvp not too long ago, now its decent. The stats for the heavy x-bow were the same since the damn game was created, and no one was whining then! How about everyone just learn to adapt for once in their life. I see alot of people do quite FINE against archers with a little thing called parry and a thing called armor. Have you heard of it?
    Or if we are so keen on nerfing, why not just nerf LRC, LMC, HCI, DCI, and DMG INC. That way we can stop complaining about spamming specials, high dmg and all the other little things that make game go on.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If you wear a Ecru Citrine Ring and chug a Greater Strength Pot, it will give you +30 STR, allow you to cap out. Same thing with Greater Agility Pot. Why i prefer to have INT over DEX, there's pots for STR/DEX, no Pots for INT. I also prefer the Helm of Insight to the Spirit of the Totem. Only thing Spirit of the Totem has going for it is the 15% HCI.
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh, can't forget about that nasty little exploit that let's people use Moving Shot with bows that normally don't have Moving Shot as a special. Was messing around in Fel earlier, and had an Archer spam AIs on me while he was in a full on run, without stopping whatsoever. Basically AI and Moving Shot combined. The guy also likes to use an exploit that let's him ignore the Mana Cost of chaining Specials.
     
  34. you used to be able to 1 hit kill with a heavy xbow. The heavy xbow is not the same as when it first came out, no weapon is. The entire weapon system was revamped with AoS, and if I recall correctly the swing speed and damage were increase for the heavy not too long after that. Archery was also always useful for pvp, even in the fire and wait days. It was more used as a secondary weapon skill (as we used to have room for that in our templates), but it was useful. Then there were 1 hit critical kills from across the screen for about a year, shooting on the run (with ANY bow), and archery is still the most frequently used combat skill for a reason.
     
  35. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    Try moving shot with 0 HCI, you'll notice the -HCI.. at least I believe I did. Just HCI is SO easy to get with bows that have +25HCI (I think moving shot is around 10-20 -HCI)
     
  36. NB-Cats

    NB-Cats Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe it's the hit lower defense kicking in but I honestly have 38 DCI without a shield and I get hit a lot by those moving shots.

    Either way, moving shot (and moving shot alone) should be checked...
     
  37. hmm name is what comes after Grim, R**per from a guild called L*lz [​IMG]
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yep, exactly.