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My Characters are a Mess: Need Some Help

Discussion in 'UHall' started by donjn, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    UPDATED 8/22/08

    Okay for my sanity I have got to make a decision and here it is.
    First number is current and ( ) number is final..


    Paladin
    Through my research I decided that I had to have Resist Spells on one character. Even though I don't PvP, I could not live with myself if I did not have this at least once. Who better than a ONE SPEC Paladin who had a free skill open? He is also my main and will go deep into dungeons. He posses the Soul Seeker, and has the Virute Armor set.

    Swordsmanship 93 (115)
    Tactics 85 (110)
    Anatomy 80 (110)
    Parry 68 (100)
    Resist Spells 90 (100)
    Chiv 87 (90)
    Focus 102 (70)



    Mage/Bard
    After looking through this I figured out the the best way to do a Battlemage is to make a BattleNecro instead. See later on below. As for this guy, he will be a mage/bard controlling everything. The combos here are endless. Provoking fights, then chain lightning when they are close together, or even Blade Spirits. The Provoke with the Area of Effect spells are a nice combo. My only concern it ditching my 74 Inscription for all Bard skills. I need to play around to figure out which Bard skill I dont need.

    Meditation 100 (100)
    Eval Int 91 (100)
    Magery 89 (100)
    Music 87 (100)
    Disco 70 (100)
    Prov 85 (100)
    Peacemaking 85 (100)



    Crafter
    I moved the "woodworking" things to my archer (see below). Now this crafter is a real metalworker. The only oddball is Inscription which my eventually go back to the mage after I GM it. Arms Lore will have to be leveled up.

    Mining 91 (100)
    Blacksmith 87 (100)
    Tinker 86 (100)
    Tailoring 72 (100)
    Magery 72 (100)
    Arms Lore 0 (100)
    Inscription 74 (100)



    Archer
    This spec fit perfectly. Not much more to say. Although I hate having to re-equip bow vs axe when chopping wood. Guess I will look at the macros tonight..

    Archery 48 (115)
    Anatomy 43 (115)
    Tactics 36 (110)
    Lumberjack 54 (100)
    Carpentry 38 (100)
    Bow/Fletch 35 (100)
    Chiv 39 (60)


    Necromancer (Advanced Character Token)*
    Through an Advanced Character Token which I dont have yet, my dreams of a Dark Battlemage Caster will come true.

    Necromancy 85* (100)
    Spirit Speak 85* (100)
    Fencing 70* (100)
    Meditation 70* (100)
    Anatomy 45 (100) Obtained via Soulstone from Mage
    Parry 45 (100) Obtained via Soulstone from Mage
    Tactics 42 (100) Obtained via Soulstone from Mage

    Soulstone Storage

    Other Resist Spells

    Let me know if this looks good...I think I am 95% there..
     
  2. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    First temp looks like a standard parry paladin and is fine. As for the fencer, necro dexxers are more for pvp so I'd dump the melee aspect and go full necro mage. Maybe add spellweave since you pvm a lot. As for bard/archer, resist wont fit on that temp at all. You're gonna need archery, tact, music, disco for sure. Plus you need a way to heal yourself so maybe go anat and healing. By then your temp is kinda tight. Just need to reduce the number of skills on that temp and focus more closely to one aspect.
     
  3. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Paladin - I'd get rid of the focus for now. If you decide you need it later, it is easy to get back. Resist spells seems like a waste to me. I dropped it since it stopped actually resisting spells.

    Mage/Necromancer/Fencer - A Tank mage was good back in the good ole days but it sounds better than it works these days. We had a tank in our guild and he was always the first one dead during hunts. Concentrate on being a good mage. Its always best to be great at one thing. Inscription is also a good skill to go with Magery.

    Crafter - Your crafter looks ok except for Arms Lore. It is worth it if you want to maximize your crafts. Also, use Items to make up the magery so you can save space to take some of those crafting skills to 120.

    Archer/Bard - I tried Archer/Bard, Archer/Thunter, Archer/Bowcrafter and i found that the best thing that works is just Archer. Archery is a great skill and a pure archer is priceless. If i had to choose, i would just add bowcraft.

    Leave taming alone unless you are prepared for a long road of Great Harts and Grizzly Bears. You can use those soulstones to store better skills.
     
  4. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    As your main character is your Paladin, a good PvM Paladin template to start off with is

    110+ weapon skill
    110+ parry
    110+ busido
    100 tactics
    90 or 100 anatomy
    90 or 100 healing
    65 to 80 chivalry
    0 or 20 or 40 focus

    Generally PvM templates dont have resist spells.

    If you are not in a PvM guild already, I recommend joining one. Ask in your shard forum about which PvM guilds on your shard are the biggest, and have the most fun. It is a lot more fun in a guild, as you can chat with other guild members and also hunt stronger monsters in a team.
     
  5. trammelite

    trammelite Guest

    paladin:
    did you forget any skill with the paladin ? my calculator shows 605 skillpoints.
    if i was you, i would spent 80 for healing and raise weaponskill, tactics and anatomy for high damage output. Focus can be reduced, because you will not use that many special moves and with healing, your mana consumption will be only for EoO and ConWeap. Divine Fury always sets your Stamina to max, so if youe gear is medable, i would take med instead of focus.
    BTW, the stats are critical, 80 dex for parry is minimum, i would go for much more though.

    mage/necro
    if you want a weapon skill, i would go for necro OR mage, not both. you will always need the complementary Eval or Spirit Speak to be effective, and this will barely go along with high weapon skill and such.
    If you love a battle mage, drop the weapon skill, go for a mage weapon -0 and there you go with a necro-mage, the new sorcerers armor will give you the 70's for the infight and the LRC for the casting.

    crafter
    go for 120 smith, 120 tailor, 100 arms lore, 100 tinkering. now if you want to mine in dangerous territory, you might want some magery and a mage weapon with a little Medi or Focus, that would eat up another 180 or so points. Leaving 100 for mining or lumbering, whatsoever. but ALL crafter skills on one char seems not effective, because you can just craft crap without being GM though.

    archer /bard
    nice idea, but if you want effective archery, you will need to sacrifice bardnig skills. 100 archery, 100 anatomy, 100 Tactics, 80 healing (they WILL get you one day) 100 music, 100 peace, chivalry for travels and such will leave only few points for disco or provo. i would choose disco, because with provo you would not need the archery.

    no offense, just my opinion :D
     
  6. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Paladin
    I find there's really no bad way to play a warrior - just go out and hunt and the character's training takes care of itself. I tend to see focus as a starting skill - once you're at your cap, turn focus down and let other stills take points from it. I like adding bushido if I have enough mana - lightning strike increases damage output nicely. If mana is an issue, I like adding healing.

    Mage/Necromancer/Fencer
    I don't touch that evil necromancy stuff, so I'll pass here :)

    Crafter
    You run into hard choices as a crafter's skills reach the cap. Eventually you'll need to decide between dropping some skills or breaking into two characters (usually one with mining/blacksmithing/tinkering and one with lumberjacking/carpentry/fletchery).

    Now, if you have an archer, you want bow/fletch, if you don't, the only gameplay for a fletcher is the heartwood quests in hopes of hitting the runic jackpot. If the crafter's only job is repairs, you're ok without arms lore, but if you want to make your own equipment some day, at this stage you really need it, the bonus it gives is small, but can make a world of difference. Magery is a great swiss army knife so I'd keep it. Tinkering can be replaced by buying tools off vendors, but I tend to like it just for the sake of self-sufficiency. Tailoring is very self-sufficient skill so can go anywhere you have the free points. Inscription if nice for self-sufficiency, but if you're pressed for space, I'd stock up on runebooks/BOD books and soulstone it because there isn't a lot of gameplay for it.

    Archer/Bard
    You've got a nice bard in the making ... but it's hard to add enough combat skills on top to make him effective. I find bard/mages or bard/tamers are easier to stitch together.

    Because of powerscrolls, I tend to plan characters around 6 skills, with a 7th skill that I know may eventually be dropped. I know there are times where the difference between 80 and 120 isn't worth the points, expense and effort (especially when you may never see a 120), but tend to biased towards "all-or-nothing" thinking in my templates.
     
  7. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Any good mage weapons -0 (artifacts) you could recommend? Or can such weapons actually be crafted?
     
  8. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    Thanks guys for the advice. I have a bust day to work today but I will follow up later with more comments and questions. I want to nail something concrete down today, because this has been driving me nuts.

    So far from what I gather is, make my mage a full mage/necro with no melee skills, move Inscription over to him and lose Fencing, Anatomy, etc. Should he keep Parry?

    Lose Resist Spells on all characters. Perhaps Soulstone the highest?

    Crafter move lumberjacking and Bow/Fletch to Archer/Bard and Soulstone the Bard skills making him a pure Archer.

    Now I have two Soulstone Fragments. I need more. What is their price range?
    Also, can I delete something off of a Soulstone?

    Thanks
     
  9. trammelite

    trammelite Guest

    @hawkeye_pike
    Staff of the Magi maybe, because the Swords of prosperity are not SC, which might cause problems with magery, but is ok with necro.
    IMHO you can take any other SC mageweapon, "simply" compensate the -XX with jewels holding magery +XX , which might give you a free left hand for potting, since the arties are 2-handed, "normal" mageweapons not necessarily.

    @donjn
    barehanded or with a spellbook in hand (Tomb of lost Knowledge or slayer spellbook etc.) you would want to go for eval/anatomy combo, like this adds up to the wrestling defense of (eval+ana+20)/2 according to stratics. this would save you 10 skillpoints compared to eval/wrestling or eval/parry with shield - and you could drink pots with the free shield-hand, if required ;).
    and deleting off soulstones is quite simple: remove from stone ;)
     
  10. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    Okay, here are my adjustments.

    Paladin
    Resist Spells exchange for Bushido

    Swordsmanship 110
    Chivalry 110
    Bushido 110
    Tactics 100
    Anatomy 100
    Parry 100
    Focus 70


    Necromancer
    Dump Parry, Tactics, Resist Spells and Fencing. Keep Anatomy because of the Anatomy/Eval Int Defensive combo.

    Magery 110
    Meditation 100
    Eval Int 100
    Inscription 100
    Necro 100
    Spirit Speak 100
    Anatomy 90


    Crafter
    Give Inscription to Mage. Move Bow/Fletch to Archer

    Mining 100
    Blacksmith 100
    Tinker 100
    Tailoring 100
    Magery 100
    Lumberjack 100
    Carpentry 100



    Archer/Bard

    Keep Music and Disco, Dump Resist Spells. Move Peace and Prov to Soulstone. Added Bowcraft/Fletching

    Archery 110
    Anatomy 110
    Tactics 110
    Disco 110
    Music 100
    Bow/Fletch 100
    Chiv 60

    Soulstone Status
    Peacemaking 85
    Prov 85

    Am I getting closer? Thanks..
     
  11. GFY

    GFY Guest

    I have several different templates that I alternate between. Here's my 2 cents worth.

    Paladin

    Your change looks good. Lose focus as you scroll up your other skills. If 120 is too expensive go to 115 until you can afford better.

    You don't mention your stats. You need to push your dex as high as possible and your Strength to 100 plus. Lower mana cost is very good because it allows you to use more specials try to get this as close to 40 as possible.

    Necromancer

    I'd drop anatomy for focus for a bit more mana regen.

    Crafter

    With the change to arms lore this is really important to any crafter. You may need to make 2 crafters with arms lore to be able to make or repair all the items you'll need. It's a good idea to put the related skills together. (Lumber jacking with carpentry and bowcraft and mining with smithing)
     
  12. Harb

    Harb Guest

    Donjn, even with a PvM only focus, you may find yourself "circling" through required skills as the play areas/ creatues you may enjoy at any given time will change as you continue play. Fortunately, soulstones help greatly with that - if you purchase legacy tokens from EA then it's easy when these shifts in focus occur. A couple years back, both the wife and I had 3 active accounts each just to squeeze all our character derivatives into the game, we now play with single accounts each and have lost no flexibility/ capability in the process - thanks to full soulstones. Maplestone mentioned 6x120 characters, the account I maintained was structured in this manner, I found that in some circumstances I was more comfortable with a 7th skill, so I had to buy more soulstones. For general gameplay, a few of the 6x120 characters play more often than not with a 7th skill, but do change back from time to time. So theres a shameless marketing plug for EA and their legacy tokens!

    Paladin. There are good observations in other posts, I'll try not to be repeditive. I really have found no need for chivalry to be above 90, but that 90 points are probably the most worthwhile 90 points on any PvM warrior template. Tactics need to be at 90 for both special moves, but benefits above 90 aren't overly beneficial. Anatomy and tactics combine for your damage modifiers, so anatomy is one we keep at either 120 (6x120 mode) or 110 in 7 skill mode. Healing at 90 is the same as 100 if using enhanced bandages. You can heal with Chiv, but even with a lot of mana, it's never been enough for me. Don't discount resist even for PvM play, against casters it's very beneficial. More is better. Same with parry, which is a good skill if you're defensively oriented or in melee combat with some of the harder hitters. Bushido is a wonderful skill for offensive orientation, but when combined with parry, all but negates the value of the latter. In one of the oddest combinations there is from a logic perspective, necro at 100 also works well on a paladin due to the "hit life leech" affect of the vampire spell. Your weapon skill, regardless of which one, should be as high as you can get it to affect hit chance increase. We haven't played any warrior derivative with less than 120 for years, but if you're not going to scroll the character up, get it to 100 (and reconsider scrolls). For general play, in 7 skill mode, I play my warrior at 120 weapon (they're all on stones or the character, I normally use fencing, but swords gives more PvM flexibility), 120 parry or bushido, 110 anatomy, 100 necro or resist, 90 chiv, 90 healing and 90 tactics.

    Mage/ Necro/ Fencer. *smiles* Yeah, add ninjitsu and you're toying with template possibilities I've worked for several years and was never been able to get to work out as well as desired. You can build a viable and versitile character along these lines, but in my experience, never a great character. There are too many compromises to make. I balanced stats, and again used soul stones. What I ended up with was a parry mage who can go into necro mage mode as an alternative. And ninji/ hide/ stealth on stones as yet another alternation on the warrior referenced above. The character developed along this line does yield weapons often, there are some decent mage weapons in the game. Jewelry can play a role by offestting the "-" factor. My guy uses a crystaline ring, the skill bonuses on it seem tailor made to this type charcater.

    Crafter. In a word (well, two): soul stones (to beat the dead horse). One character can do it all. The nature of crafting requires excellence, so eveything (except music to enable crafting instruments) goes to 100. Include magery. We separate our crafter and our "gatherer," but there is no requirement to do so if gathering resources solely in Trammel. Plan any extra points to someday go into blacksmithing and/ or tailoring, few players spend years without making this leap.

    Archer/ Bard. This one is also about compromise or stones. You can't be a great bard or archer simultaneously, but possibly can blend a decent mix. For me, bard skills carry a 120 requirement, but that much depends on where/ how you play. Akin to melee weapon skills, for me, archery is another 120 requirement. I can't sketch out an "outstanding" template on a 6x120 theme with archery, and struggle on a 7 skill template. If you want all 4 bard skills, even with each sitting at 100, theres only 300-320 skill points (depending on account age) remaining to allocate. Try archery at 100, add 90 chiv, set tactics to 50 (the absolute minimum IMO) and try the rest in anatomy. I know you don't really want taming, but it's only a three skill set (only two are required), and you're going to need at least some magery. I play my bard at 120 in the music skills, 120 magery, and either 120 med or resist, situation dependent. The same character is my tamer, I sub 2 or 3 of the taming skills for med/ resist and one or two of the bard skills depending on where I'm going.

    Hope this helps.

    Edit: GFY mentioned stats, I brushed over that sorry. On the pally and archer, dex is key. It's "break points" are at 60/ 90/ 120/ 150; for every 30 points your have, you remove a "tick" from weapon swing speed. We ensure our modified dex/ stam stays above 120, it gives you max swing speed (without SSI) on weapons to 2.25 speed. I'd like to get to 150, there's just too much loss of int and str IMO to get there. The crafter can go for str and int, dex plays no role. Should you coose taming over archery, dex won't matter. It's a judgement call for the necro/ mage/ fencer, I'd try and keep everything over 90 including mods.
     
  13. zeroshade

    zeroshade Guest

    With what you want the chars to be i would do...

    Archer/Bard

    Music 120
    Peacemaking 100 (you really only need to area peace, but if you can take to 120)
    Prov 120
    Disco 120
    Archery 115
    Chiv 70 (need at least 65 for noble sacrifice...)
    Tactics 90

    735 skill pts so you would need +15 or so from items (Song woven mantle gives +10 music, hunters headress gives +20 archery, ring, bracelet easy to get +skills for)


    Crafter

    Mining 100
    Magery 110-120
    Lumberjack 100

    Honestly i would get all the crafting skills to Gm or 120 then soul stone them and take them off as needed.


    Mage/Necromancer/Fencer
    It depends on what spells you want to use...
    consider something like this
    Eval Int 120
    Magery 85
    Fencing 115
    Tactics 100
    Parry 100
    Necro 80
    Spirit Speak 120

    720pts

    This will let you rez people. In a template like this you would mainly use lower level magery spells like ebolt, exp and lower, probably more like lightening and fireballs, necro you get access to all the offensive spells.


    Paladin
    I would only change it a little to drop resist and add healing to give you more than just close wounds to heal

    Swordsmanship 120
    Tactics 115
    Healing 90
    Anatomy 90
    Parry 120
    Focus 100
    Chiv 85

    720 points

    This is just a suggestion, i tried not to change your templates too much
     
  14. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    Would you really recommend dropping Meditation on the NecroMage?
     
  15. Better not fight any nasty casters, then. Paralyze from a paragon balron would hold you in place a very long time without resist.
     
  16. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    Here are my new templates along with current STR/DEX/INT stats:


    Paladin
    Strength: 93
    Dexterity: 70
    Intelligence: 80
    Swordsmanship 120
    Tactics 115
    Resist Spells 90 (or Healing? Would love to Rez because that's a Pally!)
    Anatomy 90
    Parry 120
    Focus 100
    Chiv 85


    Necromage
    Strength: 87 Up
    Dexterity: 28 Down
    Intelligence: 122 Up
    Magery 100
    Med 100
    Eval Int 100
    Spirit Speak 100
    Necro 90
    Fencing 80
    Tactics 80
    Parry 80


    Crafter
    Strength: 125 Lock
    Dexterity: 43 Down
    Intelligence: 58 Up
    Mining 100
    Blacksmith 100
    Tinker 100
    Tailoring 100
    Magery 100
    Arms Lore 100
    Inscription 100

    Archer
    Strength: 101 Down
    Dexterity: 88 Up
    Intelligence: 41 Down
    Archery 110
    Anatomy 110
    Tactics 110
    Bow/Fletch 100
    Lumberjack 100
    Carpentry 100
    Chiv 60

    Soulstone
    Peacemaking
    Prov
    Disco
    Music
     
  17. Harb

    Harb Guest

    Offensive mage casting requires eval, as does necro require spirit speak. Both require mana regen, the best "easy" source being med. A weapon needs some tactis and anatomy. It's all part of the skill dilemma I referred to earlier. In mage/ necro mode (6x120), I go mage/ eval/ necro/ spirit/ med/ parry or resist, but there other valid derivatives. No med, you needs lots of mana regen from equipment.
     
  18. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    See my recent changes above. I wont have anything at 110 or 120, however if I am truly stubborn and want a Battlemage Necro that bad, this seems like the best choice:

    Magery 100
    Med 100
    Eval Int 100
    Spirit Speak 100
    Necro 90
    Fencing 80
    Tactics 80
    Parry 80

    A Battlemage has to understand that he wont be the best in any one category..
     
  19. Harb

    Harb Guest

    :) You answered your own question, go for it! Try the template, there is not a gapping error in there. My guess is, you'll find necro 10 pts too low, tactics 10 pts too low, and fencing 20 pts too low. None of these shortfalls however exceed the ability to make em back up via items/ jewelry. You play a pally, whom you will notice hits more often and much harder. If the required compromises are good for you, enjoy the character. Keep an eye on your stats, they're pretty hard to get "right" as well. If you're a 230 cap kinda guy, try 70/ 90/ 70 (SDI), but here again anything to plus these up is very helpful. Man, these conversations were much simplier long ago!
     
  20. Harb

    Harb Guest

    One aside, I didn't harp on it as it had already been mentioned. Don't just give up on mage weapons. Anything thats -20 (anything) or less (arties), is easily offset by a single item, the crystaline ring (trouble is, I don't anything is more uncommon). What you'll loose going the mage weapon route are no special moves, and quality weapons (properties other the mage weap prop) are harder to come by. It's a little tougher in PvM to play this way and remain fully satified, bbut helps significantly on skill point allocation.
     
  21. zeroshade

    zeroshade Guest

    Honestly, yeah, if you go into wraith form you gain mana for every amount of damage you do. and with this template, all the spells you are going to be using are offensive, mana shouldnt be much of a problem.
     
  22. donjn

    donjn Journeyman
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    Okay for my sanity I have got to make a decision and here it is.
    First number is current and ( ) number is final..

    Paladin
    Through my research I decided that I had to have Resist Spells on one character. Even though I don't PvP, I could not live with myself if I did not have this at least once. Who better than a ONE SPEC Paladin who had a free skill open? He is also my main and will go deep into dungeons. He posses the Soul Seeker, and has the Virute Armor set.

    Swordsmanship 93 (115)
    Tactics 85 (110)
    Anatomy 80 (110)
    Parry 68 (100)
    Resist Spells 90 (100)
    Chiv 87 (90)
    Focus 102 (70)



    Mage/Bard
    After looking through this I figured out the the best way to do a Battlemage is to make a BattleNecro instead. See later on below. As for this guy, he will be a mage/bard controlling everything. The combos here are endless. Provoking fights, then chain lightning when they are close together, or even Blade Spirits. The Provoke with the Area of Effect spells are a nice combo. My only concern it ditching my 74 Inscription for all Bard skills. I need to play around to figure out which Bard skill I dont need.

    Meditation 100 (100)
    Eval Int 91 (100)
    Magery 89 (100)
    Music 87 (100)
    Disco 70 (100)
    Prov 85 (100)
    Peacemaking 85 (100)



    Crafter
    I moved the "woodworking" things to my archer (see below). Now this crafter is a real metalworker. The only oddball is Inscription which my eventually go back to the mage after I GM it. Arms Lore will have to be leveled up.

    Mining 91 (100)
    Blacksmith 87 (100)
    Tinker 86 (100)
    Tailoring 72 (100)
    Magery 72 (100)
    Arms Lore 0 (100)
    Inscription 74 (100)



    Archer
    This spec fit perfectly. Not much more to say. Although I hate having to re-equip bow vs axe when chopping wood. Guess I will look at the macros tonight..

    Archery 48 (115)
    Anatomy 43 (115)
    Tactics 36 (110)
    Lumberjack 54 (100)
    Carpentry 38 (100)
    Bow/Fletch 35 (100)
    Chiv 39 (60)


    Necromancer (Advanced Character Token)*
    Through an Advanced Character Token which I dont have yet, my dreams of a Dark Battlemage Caster will come true.

    Necromancy 85* (100)
    Spirit Speak 85* (100)
    Fencing 70* (100)
    Meditation 70* (100)
    Anatomy 45 (100) Obtained via Soulstone from Mage
    Parry 45 (100) Obtained via Soulstone from Mage
    Tactics 42 (100) Obtained via Soulstone from Mage

    Soulstone Storage
    Other Resist Spells

    Let me know if this looks good...I think I am 95% there..
     
  23. Harb

    Harb Guest

    Yep you're close enough that should you change your mind you can without major upheavel. IMO tactics is higher than required (after 90 returns diminish), and healing would be of significantly greater utility than focus (90 gives ya a "GM affect" with enhanced bandies).

    This is the bard of ole, though disco replaced what was then enticement. Derivitives were resist or scribe (later on) in lieu of the final bard skill. What changed was in the effectiveness of the discord skill, so in todays world, your template as shown should serve you well except with some of the more difficult creatures (where higher bard skills are required accross the boards).

    I'm no help here sorry, I haven't played a character along this line. Analytically it looks OK, you're pretty much commiting yourself to vampire embrace to offset no healing ability, and as above you can shave a little off tactics (go 110 spirit). I didn't comment on the crafter, including arms lore is a good idea, but my guess remains that in the end, you'll buy some legacy tokens to round him out further! And yes, scribe works better on a mage for added spell damage.