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My Idea (Regarding Economy/Payouts)

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have been contemplating this for a while...

    What if Maxis limited the TOTAL amount of simoleans a sim could earn within a 24 hour period? Payouts could return to normal, but once you reached the maximum earnings for the day, you would only earn perhaps $1 per object, regardless of your skill level.

    Lets be honest, if sims are logged on for more than 24 hours at time, chances are that they're using a bot.

    Perhaps payouts could be much less for free accounts, discouraging botters from creating free accounts just for money earning purposes.
     
  2. DGLita

    DGLita Guest

    sounds like a damn good idea for fixing the bots.
     
  3. Sounds good, but how would they determine what the appropriate maximum 24 hour amount would be?
     
  4. Cruz Cavera

    Cruz Cavera Guest

    Good plan, but. How are you going to stop the botters? We are allowed 3 Sims in EA Land, Botters usually have more than 1 account. There won't be a way to stop the botters.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just to give people a little bit of an idea as to what can be done with bots, and what you are facing if bots aren't completely knocked on the head.
    A cheap system with 2GB of ram can run 12 sims windows at the same time.
    There are bot programs that will do everything for 12 accounts, money objects, single or multi player, green. They will go all day none stop unattended.
    The botters have dozens of computers, but lets for this example use 10.
    If simolean earnings are restricted to 100 simoleans an hour, or 2300 a day allowing for 23 hours access to the game. This is what can be done with the 10 computers.

    12 accounts on each computer = 2300 x 12 = 27,600
    27,600 x 10 computers = 276,000 per day.
    276,000 x 30 days = 8,280,000 simoleans per month.
    When EA enables the buyback of simoleans, which they have to do for the game to go ahead the way they plan.
    This botter would have approx $8,280 in real money, with a cost of $1,200 for the accounts. The remaining $7,080 would well and truly cover any electricity, internet ect costs and would return a healthy income.
    Take note that this is worked out on 100 simoleans an hour, or 2.3k a day, far lower than the ridiculous prices we are getting right now.
    It's simple, bots have to be completely knocked on the head, now, gone, never to return.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    love the idea [​IMG]
     
  7. Cruz Cavera

    Cruz Cavera Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Just to give people a little bit of an idea as to what can be done with bots, and what you are facing if bots aren't completely knocked on the head.
    A cheap system with 2GB of ram can run 12 sims windows at the same time.
    There are bot programs that will do everything for 12 accounts, money objects, single or multi player, green. They will go all day none stop unattended.
    The botters have dozens of computers, but lets for this example use 10.
    If simolean earnings are restricted to 100 simoleans an hour, or 2300 a day allowing for 23 hours access to the game. This is what can be done with the 10 computers.

    12 accounts on each computer = 2300 x 12 = 27,600
    27,600 x 10 computers = 276,000 per day.
    276,000 x 30 days = 8,280,000 simoleans per month.
    When EA enables the buyback of simoleans, which they have to do for the game to go ahead the way they plan.
    This botter would have approx $8,280 in real money, with a cost of $1,200 for the accounts. The remaining $7,080 would well and truly cover any electricity, internet ect costs and would return a healthy income.
    Take note that this is worked out on 100 simoleans an hour, or 2.3k a day, far lower than the ridiculous prices we are getting right now.
    It's simple, bots have to be completely knocked on the head, now, gone, never to return.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly, so STOP punishing us for other peoples screw ups. Seems like all TSO is about anymore is money/Simoleans. It's just a money pit.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Just to give people a little bit of an idea as to what can be done with bots, and what you are facing if bots aren't completely knocked on the head.
    A cheap system with 2GB of ram can run 12 sims windows at the same time.
    There are bot programs that will do everything for 12 accounts, money objects, single or multi player, green. They will go all day none stop unattended.
    The botters have dozens of computers, but lets for this example use 10.
    If simolean earnings are restricted to 100 simoleans an hour, or 2300 a day allowing for 23 hours access to the game. This is what can be done with the 10 computers.

    12 accounts on each computer = 2300 x 12 = 27,600
    27,600 x 10 computers = 276,000 per day.
    276,000 x 30 days = 8,280,000 simoleans per month.
    When EA enables the buyback of simoleans, which they have to do for the game to go ahead the way they plan.
    This botter would have approx $8,280 in real money, with a cost of $1,200 for the accounts. The remaining $7,080 would well and truly cover any electricity, internet ect costs and would return a healthy income.
    Take note that this is worked out on 100 simoleans an hour, or 2.3k a day, far lower than the ridiculous prices we are getting right now.
    It's simple, bots have to be completely knocked on the head, now, gone, never to return.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly, so STOP punishing us for other peoples screw ups. Seems like all TSO is about anymore is money/Simoleans. It's just a money pit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well BLAME EA for making it the *money pit* that it is. EVERYTHING in the game revolves around skilling/earning money somehow. they're constantly msaking things higher in costs and lower in pay.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I have been contemplating this for a while...

    What if Maxis limited the TOTAL amount of simoleans a sim could earn within a 24 hour period? Payouts could return to normal, but once you reached the maximum earnings for the day, you would only earn perhaps $1 per object, regardless of your skill level.

    Lets be honest, if sims are logged on for more than 24 hours at time, chances are that they're using a bot.

    Perhaps payouts could be much less for free accounts, discouraging botters from creating free accounts just for money earning purposes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting. In your opinion, should this be limited to an account or to a sim?

    Edited to add: ...and in the future, free player accounts will not be able to go to money lots or get a job.
     
  10. How about when EA discovers a botter, ban the account and ban the IP address from ever getting another account. Why make it harder on the honest player, and let the botters try to figure another way around the coding. Just get rid of that certain botter for good.
     
  11. <blockquote><hr>

    Edited to add: ...and in the future, free player accounts will not be able to go to money lots or get a job.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And the way things are going, paid player accounts won't WANT to.

    CherryBomb
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I have been contemplating this for a while...

    What if Maxis limited the TOTAL amount of simoleans a sim could earn within a 24 hour period? Payouts could return to normal, but once you reached the maximum earnings for the day, you would only earn perhaps $1 per object, regardless of your skill level.

    Lets be honest, if sims are logged on for more than 24 hours at time, chances are that they're using a bot.

    Perhaps payouts could be much less for free accounts, discouraging botters from creating free accounts just for money earning purposes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting. In your opinion, should this be limited to an account or to a sim?

    Edited to add: ...and in the future, free player accounts will not be able to go to money lots or get a job.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    then exactly why have free player accounts? To see all the wonderful limitations and make that final decision to NOT sign up? lol
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    To add to my earlier post in this thread, here is what can be done with payouts the way they are now on code machines.
    1 computer, 1 bot, 12 accounts. (4 code teams)

    code is now paying a low 24 simoleans per code break per sim.
    3 sims = 72, plus 10% for ownership of the machine = 79
    4 teams times 79 = 316
    I can do an average 33 code breaks per hour manually. I would guess a bot would be faster than that, but lets work on 33
    316 times 33 = 10,428
    10,428 x 23 hours = 239,844
    239,834 x 30 days = 7,195,320 simoleans per month.
    Approx $7,195 in real money.
    And that is 1 computer, 12 accounts with payouts as low as they are now.

    All EA is doing with the low payouts they have now is stopping people from being able to make decent quantities of simoleans using legal manual methods.
    I personally don't think the bots have even really got going in EA Land yet.
    What is EA going to do when they do?
     
  14. Heidi: That was basically what the "overwork penalty" tried to do. It was not the most popular thing EA ever did, to say the least.

    BiteMe: I would think that someone running 120 automatic Sims would be hard to miss, even for a staff with such a deplorable record of catching botters as this one has had in the past. You make a very important point, though: By committing to buying back Simoleons at 989 or so to the dollar, EA simply can't have any pay scale that allows someone to accumulate more than 10,000 Simoleons per month per account, botting or not. 8000 Simoleons, if they continue the weekly bonuses.

    CherryBomb
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>

    To add to my earlier post in this thread, here is what can be done with payouts the way they are now on code machines.
    1 computer, 1 bot, 12 accounts. (4 code teams)

    code is now paying a low 24 simoleans per code break per sim.
    3 sims = 72, plus 10% for ownership of the machine = 79
    4 teams times 79 = 316
    I can do an average 33 code breaks per hour manually. I would guess a bot would be faster than that, but lets work on 33
    316 times 33 = 10,428
    10,428 x 23 hours = 239,844
    239,834 x 30 days = 7,195,320 simoleans per month.
    Approx $7,195 in real money.
    And that is 1 computer, 12 accounts with payouts as low as they are now.

    All EA is doing with the low payouts they have now is stopping people from being able to make decent quantities of simoleans using legal manual methods.
    I personally don't think the bots have even really got going in EA Land yet.
    What is EA going to do when they do?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Over the long run, any player who sticks with the game is going to accumulate a nest egg -- a point where they could say "Whew, I have enough, I can retire." I was there, as many of you were, before the merge. What happens then? Taxes? If the idea is to keep us hungry for simoleans, "they" have to keep us hungry. [​IMG]
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I have been contemplating this for a while...

    What if Maxis limited the TOTAL amount of simoleans a sim could earn within a 24 hour period? Payouts could return to normal, but once you reached the maximum earnings for the day, you would only earn perhaps $1 per object, regardless of your skill level.

    Lets be honest, if sims are logged on for more than 24 hours at time, chances are that they're using a bot.

    Perhaps payouts could be much less for free accounts, discouraging botters from creating free accounts just for money earning purposes.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Sounds like the ultimate "screw everybody because of a few" solution.

    EA has introduced a feature into the game that provides a means for players to make a little money (cash-out). They have even used it as an ad lever to get ppl to join the game.
    To suddenly back up and say everybody is limited in what they can earn because that's the easy way to protect their assets, is unethical (at least) and may qualify as deceptive advertising (the old 'bait &amp; switch').

    This game operates on a global scale - as such, it needs to behave in a professional manner. That means simply this:
    They have the means, the experience, the money, the technical know-how, and the people to solve this problem without doing it on the cheap at the expense of the player base.

    And that's what they should do.
     
  17. SIMS9925

    SIMS9925 Guest

    I actually liked the old idea of adding random codes between each round of using a money object. I have seen all the big companys like aol, myspace and hotmail use this tatic to prevent misuse of the service
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Heidi: That was basically what the "overwork penalty" tried to do. It was not the most popular thing EA ever did, to say the least.

    BiteMe: I would think that someone running 120 automatic Sims would be hard to miss, even for a staff with such a deplorable record of catching botters as this one has had in the past. You make a very important point, though: By committing to buying back Simoleons at 989 or so to the dollar, EA simply can't have any pay scale that allows someone to accumulate more than 10,000 Simoleons per month per account, botting or not. 8000 Simoleons, if they continue the weekly bonuses.

    CherryBomb

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would have thought they would have been hard to miss a few years ago to, but they got away with it then running dozens of computers.
    EA still has to prove each and every circumstance of what appears to be a botter. Lee has stated that they will do anything that may punish even 1 innocent player to get even 100 botters. I fully agree with him there by7 the way.
    The problem they are having more than finding them, and always has been the main problem, is proving it.
    They also have to find a way that would not involve continuous policing of us all with an employed person to do such.
     
  19. Sorry about all this posting today, guys. I have been stewing over TSO/EA Land all day for some reason, and now it is spewing out onto the message boards. Kinda like vomit.

    My latest thought: At 989 Simoleons per dollar, isn't the money already accumulated in EA Land gonna be somewhat problematic? My bet would be on some kind of wipe before any buy-back goes into effect.

    CherryBomb
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting. In your opinion, should this be limited to an account or to a sim?

    Edited to add: ...and in the future, free player accounts will not be able to go to money lots or get a job.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hmm... I'm thinking per account. Its easy enough to transfer funds amongst sims anyways.

    Yes, I know that bots will most likely always exist. And as long as they exist, people will use them. However, if they've reached their maximum earnings for the day what would be the purpose? And at least this way they wouldn't have as much advantage over those who are working honestly for their simoleans.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Interesting. In your opinion, should this be limited to an account or to a sim?

    Edited to add: ...and in the future, free player accounts will not be able to go to money lots or get a job.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hmm... I'm thinking per account. Its easy enough to transfer funds amongst sims anyways.

    Yes, I know that bots will most likely always exist. And as long as they exist, people will use them. However, if they've reached their maximum earnings for the day what would be the purpose? And at least this way they wouldn't have as much advantage over those who are working honestly for their simoleans.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can see where you are coming from, and don't get me wrong I really like that people are trying to find solutions. I honestly don't mean to seem like I am jumping on you. I am simply trying to make people understand the situation a little better than they do.
    The problem here is that these botters, no matter what limits are set can leave their computers running completely automatically. They can have dozens of computers with multiple accounts on each all producing that limit.
    For the limit to set as low as it would need to be to stop them from making so much, they may as well forget about in game production of simoleans all together
     
  22. just an observation but doesnt the sell back option kinda create trouble with this?i mean now that ppl know they can make money from selling simoleans to ea they will be more inclined to go to any method to get them.so while their doing their easy illegal thing us honest folk spend hundreds of hours working just to build a house.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    just an observation but doesnt the sell back option kinda create trouble with this?i mean now that ppl know they can make money from selling simoleans to ea they will be more inclined to go to any method to get them.so while their doing their easy illegal thing us honest folk spend hundreds of hours working just to build a house.

    [/ QUOTE ]Somehow, I have to believe that - now that EA's financial assets are on the line - they will be policing the simolean-farmers very closely.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    just an observation but doesnt the sell back option kinda create trouble with this?i mean now that ppl know they can make money from selling simoleans to ea they will be more inclined to go to any method to get them.so while their doing their easy illegal thing us honest folk spend hundreds of hours working just to build a house.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    EA knew this going in, but did it anyway.
    This tells me that they figure they can make some bucks regardless of the bots, or that they think they have a good method of defeating them.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    just an observation but doesnt the sell back option kinda create trouble with this?i mean now that ppl know they can make money from selling simoleans to ea they will be more inclined to go to any method to get them.so while their doing their easy illegal thing us honest folk spend hundreds of hours working just to build a house.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    just an observation but doesnt the sell back option kinda create trouble with this?i mean now that ppl know they can make money from selling simoleans to ea they will be more inclined to go to any method to get them.so while their doing their easy illegal thing us honest folk spend hundreds of hours working just to build a house.

    [/ QUOTE ]Somehow, I have to believe that - now that EA's financial assets are on the line - they will be policing the simolean-farmers very closely.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Lee has said several times now that he is not worried about bots. When I asked him about this in the game one time he said that they will make it so it was not worth doing "botting", that time over money would take care of it. Infact with everything I put to him, he kept repeating time over money. So I have to conclude that the main weapon they will use against bots is to make the payouts so low that its not worth it.
     
  27. yes and to this i will ask will this not also make it not worth playing for everyone else?
     
  28. I just think the botters will wait out the low payouts just as the rest of us are doing. It's not going to ever stop. The best thing us sims can do is refuse to buy from them..alienate them and basically hit them in the area were they are trying to prosper.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    yes and to this i will ask will this not also make it not worth playing for everyone else?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep, that is exactly what I am talking about.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I just think the botters will wait out the low payouts just as the rest of us are doing. It's not going to ever stop. The best thing us sims can do is refuse to buy from them..alienate them and basically hit them in the area were they are trying to prosper.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Problem is, is that it won't be us buying from them this time. It will be EA with their buyback.
     
  31. Noddy Bond

    Noddy Bond Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Lee has said several times now that he is not worried about bots. When I asked him about this in the game one time he said that they will make it so it was not worth doing "botting", that time over money would take care of it. Infact with everything I put to him, he kept repeating time over money. So I have to conclude that the main weapon they will use against bots is to make the payouts so low that its not worth it.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    that be an intresting view on it but how much time would it really take, limiting the money that much to squeeze them out is all well and good but when you start putting the money back that will be when the botters come rolling back.
    how long can a game run for where the money is added and removed? how long will it take to upset all its subscribers?
    Sorry Money Catagory but i am about to step on your toes here, removal of money objects would be the better option to stop botters, everyone goes through the job tracks earn it that way or stores as stores now get all the objects and without one theres a very limited amount of stuff to buy out of a catalogue or simply putting in a random generated code every so often will help a load towards stopping botters (as somone else suggested).

    I personally think this is tad odd way of setting up an economy as EA are giving out the money but also buying it back, at the end of the day the money is in its ubundance i do not know of any free game that does the same thing.
    Yes i do know Second Life is sort of similar but they sell every last $ and only those that have premium accounts get a weekly payout any ways bla bla bla.
    But i will deffinatly watch how this economy pans out with intreague and if they do pull it off then hats off to them but i remain scepticle at present lol.

    Sorry Typo Checkers i could not be bothered to check the spelling errors [​IMG]
     
  32. im holding out hoping for best and giving ea credit for working butts off and answering our never ending whinings on here and not trying to add to it but 90% of sims i have talked to says the building and shopping best part of game and with money so low thats gone.we were told they want us to socialize more but all this has done is add to afkers trying to skill or make money nonstop cause so hard to come by and lets face it if all we want is to socialize we can go to free chat rooms. i miss the parties and games that no1 can any longer afford to have [​IMG]
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    i have an idea, how about some of the money house owners make an effort to talk to each person in their house. People working in the houses could too. Make note of people who regularly do not respond and report these as possible bots. Granted i know many people r kind of afk but when u r making jams or whatever it is impossible not to be at the keyboard every few minutes. Seems like it might be alot of work but i am betting several would get busted pretty quick.
     
  34. I don't think this would work either. When I am jamming or typing most of the time I am watching my grandbaby. I look over at the screen and see my sim stopped then I sell, and start again, without once looking at chat screen. AND I DONT USE A BOT. So, tell me how your idea is fair for those that are busy with real life, but also playing the game?
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    i have an idea, how about some of the money house owners make an effort to talk to each person in their house. People working in the houses could too. Make note of people who regularly do not respond and report these as possible bots. Granted i know many people r kind of afk but when u r making jams or whatever it is impossible not to be at the keyboard every few minutes. Seems like it might be alot of work but i am betting several would get busted pretty quick.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Glad to see you thinking about a solution but its a bit more complicated that that.
    These guys not only own the houses they bot in, they close them, put up 3 ims so you cant contact them. They have programs that detect an EA communication and answer it or shut down their hole setup. They constantly move and rename their houses, and heaps more. EA hasn't been able to stop these guys to date because it is very complicated.
    Having said that I do know a way it can be done, I just have to get in a position where they will listen to me. Where people in here will not think I am just blowing my trumpet.