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My own opinion on saving Siege.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Yenji Yasagari, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Nov 17, 2005
    Likes Received:
    I've talked with quite a few people in the two days I've returned to Siege. The community I can almost compare to Legends, really nice people, wanting to help out anyway possible to keep you. The most attractive and unnattractive aspects of siege seem to be.

    BEST - Easy to gain skills past 70.1
    You must always play to the max, and its truely risk vs reward here.
    Most creative templates in UO.
    No one person is overpowered.
    No trash talk upon death.

    WORST - Takes forever to finish a skill.

    Siege forces you to play at the max which is impossible until you have a finished character. Finished characters take a long time, therefore no newcomers see it as worth their time. I believe that RoT should be 3.4 for ALL kills in 70-80 range and 2.* for all skills in the 80-90 range and 2.0 past that and such. But make different levels that are not interchangable, so you can raise one skill to 90, another to 80, and yet another to 70, and get gains for each of those tiers. Sounds complicated, but I think I made it understandable.
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No insurance...nuff said...la
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    as a returnee to Siege training skills is the slowest per day rate. It is frustrating in that you want to get out there and play but know you can't until you max a skill set. Still I meet some pretty nice folks in my limited contact. Bumping up the ROT gain rate wouldn't hurt anyone.
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I tried to play there, really I did. But I dont have time to sit and make a char. I kinda have to get my chars going soon so that I can emmerse(sp?) myself in a comunity. But, Ive been thinking about it again.

    DP fencers probably rock that shard I'd guess.
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Don't lump all your eggs in one basket. While you are training a Siege character, keep playing your original toons oon your production shard. I think too many people fall into this trap. Once they get all of their skills to 70.1_ they see their gains drop drastically, and figure they can't play anymore and just leave. Instead of that. Take the time to log in ever 5, 10, 15 minutes get your gain, log out and back onto your production shard and keep playing...la
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well...we have hope of RoT being revised in the next couple of publishes (not the upcoming one), per Jeremy's feedback on the issue. Doesn't help the folks starting skills now, but at least it is something.

  7. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    Yes that suggestion does sound complicated/confusing. When you say x number for "all skills in x range" do you mean combined like it is now or for each and every skill 70-80 you can train 3.4 points a day? You need to explain it more. Also you make no mention of the delay between gains, which also needs to be changed. This was the change I suggested previously:

    There are multiple solutions to the problem of ROT in its current state. Switching to the normal shard system is not what I’m suggesting. We need something completely new or to keep the basic ROT system with big changes to it. Some solutions may be better than others. However, some also would require a lot of time and resources to pursue.

    The change I will suggest here is keeping the basic ROT system, but increasing the max gains per day and decreasing the delay between gains. Though I’m not a dev, I feel this will be easy to do and consume little time and few resources, while still being a good solution.

    Just like with the ROT system we have now, skill gains 0-70 will be normal skill gaining. At 70 in a skill, ROT kicks in. What I’m suggesting is this:

    Gain Delay: Decrease the delay between gains to a delay of one minute for skill points 70-120. This is a universal delay, unlike now. It will not matter what amount of skill you have, so long as it is above 70. This delay though, like now, will remain per skill. So if I gained in swords, I would have to wait a minute to gain in swords again. But like now, I can still gain in multiple skills at once since the delay is per skill. Decreasing the delay to one minute will shorten the amount of time it takes to get your gains for the day and it will mean that while people are getting the gains they are actually playing instead of doing this: *get gain, play another shard for 10 minutes or do something else for 10 minutes, log back in and get gain*, which is what many people do right now. A two minute delay might be fine too, but it shouldn’t be more than that.

    Gain Cap: Max gains allowed per day for skills 70-120 is 10 full points (or 100 .1 gains) in all skills 70+ combined. This is a universal cap, unlike now. It will not matter what amount of skill you have, so long as it is above 70.

    What this change means is that a 7xGM character will take 21 days to complete. A 6x120 character will take 30 days to complete. This is a good compromise between overnight or “instant” characters and the slow snail training we have now that takes many and possibly many, many, many months, to complete. I personally feel the new system can be a bit faster than 21-30 days. But some people do have a point…we don’t want it “too fast.” This change should satisfy those people AND most importantly the people who do not come to Siege or leave Siege because training takes too long. 21-30 days is over 3x as fast as the 3-4.5 months (though still a good amount of time and definitely not “too fast”). Our population will increase greatly. Hopefully this will eventually lead to a stable, healthy population and a prosperous, much more fun Siege Perilous.

    Gain Storage: However, with the above suggestion, people who don’t log in every day (or don’t get their max gains in a day) can still take much longer to finish training, just as they can with the current system.

    Because of this, I suggest a skill gain “reservoir” addition. If you can’t log in every day or don’t get your max gains, you will have a storage of extra skill gaining points for when you are able to log in and play. Now, this should not stack indefinitely. I am NOT suggesting if someone logs out for ten days they all of a sudden can use 110 skill points to train on the eleventh day. What I am suggesting is a small storage capped at 5-10, 10 probably being better, additional skill points to use in training.

    Some examples of the skill storage addition I am suggesting:
    1) I log in today and get my gains, but don’t log in tomorrow. The day after tomorrow I will have 20 points (10 stored + a normal 10) with which to gain in my skills above 70.
    2) I log in today and get my gains. But now I don’t log in for another four days. The fifth day, I will still have only 20 points with which to gain in my skills above 70, since the storage is capped at 10 points.
    3) If I log in today and only gain 5 points in my skills above 70 and then have to log off, tomorrow I will have 15 points with which to gain (the 5 I didn’t finish gaining from today + the normal 10 for tomorrow).

    This skill storage addition will help shorten the training gap between power, normal, and casual gamers. It will encourage more casual gamers to come play and be willing to start fresh on Siege, people who might otherwise still be discouraged despite the increase in gains cap and shortening of the delay.

    Now, I think this would be a very, very good and important addition to the increase in skill gain cap per day and the decrease in the delay between skill gains. However, it is not essential to the change. The main part of this suggested solution, the increase in the skill gain cap and the decrease in the delay, should still be implemented regardless of whether or not this storage addition can be. However if it can be done and the devs are willing, I think this “reservoir” system should be an addition to the new ROT skill gaining system on Siege.

    That about covers it. This change to ROT to speed up skill training so that a player can make a complete character in 3-4 weeks will definitely add a lot of players to Siege’s population and may just be enough for, eventually, Siege to once again have a very healthy population.
  8. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    Let's hope they do. We've been told "soon" before for other changes and it took way longer than soon. They admitted ROT might be something worth changing long before (not even this year) their current promise of soon. At least they've told us something though. What I'm now most worried about to be honest is not whether ROT will be changed but what that change will be. We need a major change. A minor tweak is pointless and if that's the case I'll fight against it just as passionately as I've fought for a major change.
  9. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Nov 17, 2005
    Likes Received:
    Matsuamek, I was accused of "being you" multiple times this morning, because apparently we share many of the same views on siege perilous, and the fact that we are both extremely good looking apparently? I don't know, I believe it was vortex saying it :).
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Siege is what i want, what i need..
    But, i dont wanna train one char for 3 months, everyday, to finally start the "end game". I would love to play there, it would take half year for me to get char that would be playable.
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Then get it started...don't keep complaining that it takes too long, and then just don't bother trying. Yeah, it may take awhile, but that timer won't start until you actually start training a character on Siege...la
  12. Siege ROT reveals a weakness in Production shard skill gain, too. After the first character or so, life as a mid-skilled character is not that exciting. Training is part of the game, too. Taking a long time to train wouldn't be a big deal if it was fun. Pressing one key 10,000 times is not fun anymore. I think there could be a more interesting system to simulate a character learning a skill.
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I like the rot change but I dont like the storage thing seems too much like wow 200% EXp BS.