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My Suggestion For How Treasure Maps SHOULD Be Done

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Adol, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Hey all,

    There's a fair bit of discussion about the forth coming treasure map changes, and I wanted to throw out there a basic idea I've just had as to how they could be improved as an experience first; I have my own thoughts on the potential loot changes, but as we've not seen all that they could possibly lead too yet, I wanted to hold fire on that for now.

    However, I think we can all agree that either just recalling to a spot, or targeting a shovel onto a map and then square after empty square isn't all that exciting an experience really. Instead, how about the following... and all suggestions for tweaks are welcome!

    When you first try and decode a map, you roll against your cartography, and succes gets you the following screen (quickly mocked up)

    [​IMG]

    What does this mean? Only part of the treasure map is decoded, as well as a generated message hinting at a spawned NPC (or one that temporarily becomes a quest NPC) somewhere else on the map who will have the next clue for you.

    At this stage, you can follow one of three paths; you can either try and locate the chest manually yourself from just the little bit of map decoded so far. The "Pure" treasure hunter, if you will. Or you can roll against cartography again and again, for a very low chance of revealing the next part of the map. Or you can locate the NPC....

    So where does the above clue point? Well in my quick example, it points to let's say the "Pearl Of Trinsic" Jewelers in Trinsic. Inside you find Bob The Npc. Does he talk to you? Does he go wild and attack you, to protect his treasure? Perhaps he asks you to open a lock for him, in return for which he'll give you the next clue? Or perhaps he requires a Puzzle type challenge to be completed, like the many already in game which also use lockpicking?

    Randomize the encounter, and once it's complete, another square on the map is revealed, and the next step of the quest is written onto the map... so you're getting an individualised history of the treasure hunt! "I beat up Bob, and his dying words were 'Curses, now I'll never again kiss me sweet honey pot Sharola...' " it could say next. "The Honey Pot" is (of course :p) in Skara Brae... so off we go again!

    What sort of adventures could you have? Well I'd tend towards escalatingly difficult ones, for the sheer sake of drama and entertainment; and I'd also tend towards having small, unique rewards for each step to counter balance the extra time taken to locate the chest if you go the more complex route... I suspect that eventually, even with just a small and random piece of map revealed each time, clever people will find a way to set up a puzzle solving archive and we'll be back to the just-recall-in-and-pop-it method; but let's say after beating up Bob, you get a minor artifact reward for doing so ("Bob's Bola Balls" maybe on his corpse, or "Bob's Book O'Bobuko Beating" for beating the challenge board)... collect the set from each random steps completion!

    On we go, meeting next a tougher host of Pirate NPCs on one of the stationary ports in town, and raid their boat to wrest another piece of the map from them... or defeat a dragon to find in his hoard a ring that glows the closer you get to the treasure ... anything you can think of basically to tell a little story of slowly gathering more and more accurate information.

    And once the final map square is unveiled, from what ever final event we have experienced, the treasure pin is put in to mark the exact spot... and with our now complete little personal map-story, and some minor extra rewards, we go to get the chest, with all the usual attendant spawn.

    This is only a rough idea, but what does everyone think so far?
     
  2. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Let's go for the new treasure hunting method. We actually go looking for it. :)

    Come on Thunting has been to quick & easy. Let's have to actally work for it.

    Gads so many want things handed to them quick & easy. Instant gratifcation with no effort involved.

    If having to actually go out and search around a limited area is to much work, I think thats pathetic. rolleyes:
     
  3. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Hey, speak for yourself. Some of us True treasure hunters have done it the old fashioned way, Lockpick, Detect and Remove Trap, and think we actually DO work for it. Not everyone is a Soulstoning telekinesis monger....
     
  4. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    (steps into character) Of course, some of us are manly enough to not have Remove Trap, and tough out the trap by opening it directly. Detect/remove are thieves' skills, not those of a recoverer of lost treasure. Besides, disarming takes too long, and what is an explosion trap by comparison, after disposing of ancient wyrms with my sword? Nay, having pets fight for you, or making the creatures fight each other with your infernal music, is truly the cowards' way.

    (stuffs Gamlin back into his box)

    But, I agree with you on the soulstoning part... You should have to have cartography AND LP on at the same time, for maps level 3 and higher (levels 1 & 2 have been doable by mages if decoded by them, and sometimes even if decoded by others). TK could be put under the same limitations as the Unlock spell.
     
  5. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Some of us True treasure hunters have done it the old fashioned way...

    You mean by NOT recalling directly to the exact coordinates of the chest based on a runebook library and an online map comparison?

    Also TK doesn't bother me nearly as much as the "ditch the guardians" so-called tactic.
     
  6. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    *sighs* 4 posts, and not one of you so far has commented on what I suggested, instead running straight off to whinge about your favourite bug bears. Indeed Tanivar doesn't even seem to have read the suggestion, as under my ideas, you won't even see where the exact spot is, so it forces you to do a little more work to locate it, or run cartography a few more times to get exactly what you'd be getting now...

    ... in fact, for some supposedly macho treasure hunters I see none of you have put the map reading effort in to notice that I'm using one of the newly generated maps in my example; it's the screen shot Petra took of the Test Centre map. I'm not against randomised locations, I want more of an adventure in the pre-digging part to make it a true treasure hunt. *sighs again*
     
  7. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    To a degree I agree with you. All the best pirates had a little more than a map to go on. '10 paces left of the dead oak' kind of clue.
     
  8. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    I remember if you paid an NPC some gold, they'd tell you where some random piece of magic thing was located.
     
  9. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Ok I will admit that having a rune to the exact spot might be considered the lazy mans/womans route but might I pose this.

    I have been GM Locks /Cart/Fisher sence 98.

    In all that time it wasnt the getting there that was all that much fun, dragging a bunch of people with pets and all was not that much fun when your sifting for the box! All the while they are pancakes about how much time its taking for the fun to start. Being well versed in Feluccia land and the maps by much trial and error I could pretty much tell where a chest was.
    Digging took a few and I had spotted all the healers on the way in (guildmates would marvel at my knowing all the healers by name and if dead sent them their way).
    Being a gm lock gave me exclusive runs with most guilds seeking to do their precious lvl 5 maps.
    Even the Red Guilds were kind to the T hunter who could do a lvl 5 map!
    The fun happened after the box opened!

    Come on guys this is the true fun to the maps, not the digging. Also might I point out after I looked at the new maps my Books will still be of use. Tell me one Thunter who cant pinpoint what rune to recall off of for one of the old maps as crude as they are??

    The fun will be not from finding it but the killing of the new critters and the getting to them will drag tail and make many quit doing them in areas that are hard to access (like Ish where you cant do a recall in any area)

    Be it the local critters who make geting there impossible or the lack of healers (I can just see it in Ish, not one healer around and the full party wipes cause of the spawned guardians are top row meanies and get them off guard. I cant see people liking the run back from the gate's rez point through hellish mobs to get their body.)

    Unless they open Ish to marking runes for general beem in's I seriously doubt many will do them after the main groups tryouts in the opening of the publish.

    Granted you will say thats lazy but its facts of life kiddo's most of the population left want instant gratification.

    I base this on the 12+ years doing T maps with every guild type there is on 4 main line shards. People are the same old or new.
     
  10. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Ah, but if you're going to claim to be a "True Treasure Hunter", then wouldn't ALL shortcuts be forbidden? A true treasure hunter would have the spots at least marginally memorized so that looking at the map would tell them almost exactly where it is.

    I mean really it's nitpicking, as I have no problem with either TK or rune libraries/website solutions as they were, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate for those claiming to be "pure".

    Personally I LIKE the fact that the spots will be truely randomized... puts the hunt back into Treasure Hunting... as it was, it was just treasure gathering.
     
  11. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Dermott I agree to most of what is out there but I can tell you from vast knowlage this will get old and then waine as useless. I know the people I have thunted for as the cartographer/lock. They are Impatient people, and trecking a million miles around to dig up a chest is not gunna fly for long.

    I have on Siege a cart/lock who uses the detect/disarm and yes it is the old basic non magery way. But for templates that have magery the tele spell was and still is not guna change the way people do t chests.

    As for the hunting for the chest.... hell boy been doing that for ages! Not all the bloody XY's are correct. I have had to hunt and peck for the chest more then I care to mention on the old maps.
     
  12. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Storm, on the T-hunter forum, about 5-6 years ago, we went through as a group project and reconfirmed all the locations for the THB & Goodman systems (and updated the maps on stratics) - but practically no one updated their rune libraries as a result of our work. Other than the one rune on Valor that seems to have migrated 1 screen from its real location, I hadn't updated any of the runes at my own THB library until I moved the library back to Trammel on LA a couple years ago, and even then only updated the THB-system Trammel books.

    As for the OP's idea - it seems designed to drive people screaming from T-Hunting - too much tedium (especially for those who hire T-Hunters to dig up their maps), and requires an in-depth knowledge of town businesses that 99.9% of players don't have. All it would do is create a glut of "Where the **** is (so-and-so business)?" posts on the TH/Fishing forum.
     
  13. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I think we can all agree that there is no puzzle solving involved in the current form of treasure hunting with all the locations posted on the web. But we should not discuss if treasure hunting is too easy or too hard. The question is Is it fun to hunt for treasure in UO?

    Since there is no puzzle solving currently, the only fun part about it is killing the mobs and checking the chest hoping for a good reward. But this changes when you're with a group. Hunting with a party is always more fun than hunting alone. I remember we used to sail to the treasure location while fishing and fighting with sea serpents. We were opening one chest an hour but it was fun!

    The system Adol suggests is really a good one. But imagine you're with a party, the others (as Lady Storm already stated) will just watch you try to solve the puzzle. Its fun doing it alone but not that much fun when you're with a party.

    We can say the same thing for Publish 67 changes. Treasure hunters who hunt alone will find the changes to be an improvement since it'll be more profitable and also more fun provided that the maps dont point to a highly spawned area. But the treasure hunting parties will have to wait for the cartographer to spot the treasure or wont involve in the finding process at all. While most people think that Ilshenar maps will be troublesome for the paragon spawn around, I think they will give the party something to do while the cartographer works on the map.

    So, for Adol's system, maybe instead of trying to find the next clue, a party might split up and try to find the clues in different locations. Just a suggestion.
     
  14. Petra Fyde

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    :D I just read a level 1 that's slap bang in the middle of the rune beetle spawn at beetlescape. I'd sure appreciate some company if I was going to actually go and try to locate that one! I think there will be maps like that at higher levels where a party will be needed to keep the thunter alive while he looks for the chest. I can see a situation where groups hire a thunter to dig for them and 'roll' for the alacrity or other goodies inside in the way champ spawner's roll for the power scrolls.
     
  15. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    If people are really worried about involving a party, the solution would be simple; each "Clue" event can just be combat event once located, so every one can get involved... and again, it doesn't prevent those who don't want an actual treasure hunt from being lazy, under my idea you could just run Cartography successfully a further number of times to reveal the rest of the squares; you just wouldn't get a completed series of "Clues" on the map, or get/have to fight the spawn that appeared at each stage.

    As for learning the locations, the clues would all get recorded on UOGuide et all eventually too (unless the devs wrote a clue for every single possible location, which you know they won't have time to do), but they'll at least give a sense of connection again with the game world again; how many of us pay any attention to buildings or locations in the Old lands any more? And what's wrong with adding a little flavour or lore to the process for those that want it?

    And again, I'm not against randomizing in theory, but in practice it may be that as soon as map is decoded, people take one look at where it is, and think "No chance"... but I want every map to be it's own little mini adventure and thus worthwhile, even if the final location is going to be ignored anyway.
     
  16. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I totaly agree with Petra. All its guna take is one of the low lvl maps in the middle of monster fest and I guarantee you even a lvl 1 will take a group.

    Basara I did update my 4 t hunters book sets to the updated map settings even my fel books are updated. I still have 2 more librarys to go .... wondering if I should with the new changes. This does toss in a monkey wrench in the works hehe.
    Got to love the Devs idea of fun. I get the feeling they think Death is a barrel of laughs.
    I had fun with the old maps.
    Heck I did lvl 6's with my napa T hunter alone and she is a mage/thunter /fisher.
    I had a blast but thats me.
    Now i expect to be mobed for services ...... oi!
     
  17. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I suspect we'll be dividing our maps into 'solo' and 'group'. The next map I dug was close to Oaks spawn in Ilsh, easily soloable if you have the right skills. So there'll be some you can do alone and some that can be the heart of a guild social event. Half the fun of a guild hunting treasure used to be the banter while the chest was being emptied and the teasing of the guy who got one-hit killed by an ogre lord because he forgot to put his undead slayer down - or should I say 'she' because I was often guilty of that one.
    [plug-mode]Can I mention that we opened up the 'hunters for hire' listings to include anyone who wants to register rather than just THB members? [/plug-mode]
     
  18. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    If they've got a good guild. Or a steady group of friends. Or the expansion which opens up that land set (You'd be surprised how many don't, especially returning players; I've taken 2 people through the Sacred Quest this week alone after they bought SA). Or are prepared to spam in General to try and find people free or with the Cartography or combat skills to get to it... And how many players are going to bother with all of that for a Level 1 map?

    So I have to firmly disagree still; there needs to be a mechanism to make each chest, no matter where it spawns, either fun or worthwhile or ideally both, which logically means a tweak for before it's located.