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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Vandetta, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. Vandetta

    Vandetta Guest

    just a comment from someone who has about 5 mystics. I don't mind the changes. i think a mystic temp is still a good pvp temp to use.

    my question is how come gargoyls can summon a rising colosus in flight? i can't do it mounted...

    now before you say i am bias i do have a gargoyl mystic. i just think that for the ease that flying already is and how fast you can mount... maybe flying should be a pet slot. make it even.

    that is all.
  2. Flying doesn't take a control slot and mounts do because flying is a racial ability, not a follower.

    Human/Elfs have the advantage that they can instantly mount live pets to save them/themselves.

    Making flying take a control slot would not make it even, it would make them Humans that cant ride mounts.
  3. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 10, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I agree with this guy. Each race has it's perks. I mean come on look at the weapon selection that humans and elves have compared to gargoyles.
  4. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Aug 21, 2000
    Likes Received:
    And the good arties are all elf/human.

    Very few good arties for Gargoyles.
  5. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I agree with THIS GUY. I have 3 gargs and 3 human/elf. I've done extensive pvp with all races. Gargs are still weak to the other 2, period.
  6. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Apr 28, 2010
    Likes Received:
    I think gargoyle mages are far superior to human mages IMO.

    I do agree about the Pet slot for gargoyle making gargoyles like humans without a mount though...... Flying on a gargoyle VS remounting your faction mount. No comparison.
  7. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    ince I don't/won't play gargoyles, I don't know much about them, but have a couple questions...

    Gargoyles can't ride mounts? Guess we know what they Don't want for several vet rewards, huh?
    Guess y'all mean gargoyle-ONLY arties? they can't use everything else that all others can use?
    sounds even to me
  8. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    No they can not use all the human and elf arties, A good amount of the arties can not be converted to a Gargoyle counterpart because there is no such armor slot for gargoyles, or comparable weapon in other cases.

    As for the vet thing, by the time gargoyles come about you would have chosen how many vet rewards? Assume you converted one character, guess that means you have 1 extra wasted use of a vet reward huh?
  9. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    ug, thanks,didn't know they were limited to certain weaps. that blows.
    Are the race change tokens only 1-way? see 'em sellin for 1-5mil, must be for people wanting to revert?
  10. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Last i looked there wasn't a 25% DCI weapon for Human or Elf to my knowledge...that's pretty comparable to me...

    FREE riding mount speed and 25% DCI weapon sounds better than ANY race to me...
  11. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Jul 1, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Now if only we can get some changes to melee templates to make mages viable against them...like sdi buff and changes to bandages.
  12. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Mar 3, 2004
    Likes Received:
    There's 21 DCI runic twinkling skimmy
    All archery weapons can have 25 DCI and HCI and they are Human/Elf

    While throwing weapon gets the benefit being one hand (thus saving balanced mod intensity) throwing also unable to get one of the most powerful ranged weapon mod, velocity.

    FREE riding mount speed is cool until you get dismounted in real world group PvP when they have a dedicated mage weaken spamming you.

    The list goes on... if gargoyle is so great how come I still cant find more than 3 gargoyle on the battlefield at a time... it's pretty much 7 human to 2 elves to 1 gargoyle.

    The inability to ride a live mount and the similar to ethy frozen casting mounting when trying to fly along makes gargoyles one of the worst race to play to any half serious PvPers.

    OK... let me put it in this way... including in some of the arguments you brought up.

    1. Flying = Free Ethy + extra stamina drain

    2. Humans/elves can PAY (or if they are vet they get for free anyways) to have FLYING without the Extra stamina drain.

    3. Gargoyles can NEVER, even if you spend 20 vet reward choices, to get a live mount so they can instantly remount and not being a weaken bait (perma footed).

    4. Unable to use some of the most powerful pets in game to their maximum effectiveness. Dreadmares, Bane Dragons.

    5. AGAIN while gargoyle can have mounted with a GD (mounted speed until 1 dismount lands and then perma footed), human/elves CAN spend skill points to get ninja and have GD and mounted speed (and dmg doesnt interrupt animal form casting). Not vice versa, because gargoyles can NOT spend skill points to be able to ride a dreadmare/bane dragon.

    Gargoyle race is great in certain ways in PvP, if you have ninjitsu/hiding/stealth in your template. They get OP weapons like Sword of Shattering Hope. Throwing hits harder than archery (unless the bow has velocity). 50 HCI is pretty decent as well.

    A decent group with a half decent mage played right can easily keep the non-ninja gargoyles in the opposing group perma footed until he dies. Heck, when I play my archer and got dismounted and my warhorse is killed, it is still easier (well at least for me) to bandaid rez the horse and hop back on and dip out than perma stuck on foot because someone is spamming ultra LONG CASTING spell like weaken on you to keep you footed.

    Gargoyle can be anything BUT the best race IMO as a non-ninjitsu/hiding/stealth mage player.

    Again if its so good why are you still a human? =)
  13. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    WarUltima already responded but I will point out that all RANGED weapons have 25dci, so I guess that takes that out of the argument.

    And free riding mount speed? Also cant mount any live mounts so once you are grounded you mostly stay there unless whoever you are fighting is terrible.
  14. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    *Completely Random*

    Gargoyle Scribe Mage


    Items : 15
    Scribe : 10
    Gargoyle Rage Bonus : 12 SDI
    Regs : 5

    42% SDI in PvP opposed to 30%

    (Also IMO Gargoyle Plate Resists are sickeningly good, as are Gargoyle Weapons, such as Glass Sword) [Bleed/Mortal]
  15. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Mar 3, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Hmm, why?
    Do you know item SDI is capped at a laughable 15% in PvP right?

    And when I tested rage SDI does NOT stack... and I really wouldnt want to PvP while close to being redlined considering dexers can do about 90 damage in 2 bokuto hits (nerve death strike).
  16. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Yes I do.. Thats why I put "15" next to the Items Reference for SDI.

    And The last time i tested this was when they first introduced it and it Did stack, since then I havent seen anything in the notes about it being changed. (Also if you Look on Uoguide, It says very clearly that it will stack up to 12%, not sure if you mean stacking upon itself or onto of the PvP Cap)

    Also the rage was proced off of your % of health.. Ive had it proc when I've *Healed* myself Up from 20% strangely enough.

    Its also based on a timer that resets/refreshes when it Procs again (Which as I have said, can even be from healing past those percentages) meaning you don't have to Stand next to someone redlined to receive the benefit.
  17. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Never noticed a change in the amount of damage my spells do when in rage when already at the sdi cap. So have to go with War that it does not stack.
  18. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    12% is looking at 2-4 Damage increase.. When FS is Procing between 38-45 That might be kinda hard to notice. ( Thats assuming that you kept all 4 Stacks on you aswell, as 1-3 Stacks would be about 1-3 Extra Damage)

    On the flipside, I could be wrong.
  19. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Yea just saying never noticed. With out a dev actually checking and posting and double checking (as they tend to be wrong often enough to warrant such a thing) No one can know for absolutely sure.

    Although maybe you could test it by constantly casting on someone to see what the highest number you get is, then trying to get rage to set off enough to see if you can out-damage your previous test. But then the question is how much testing is enough to give a definitive answer?
  20. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Mar 3, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Rage SDI does not stack on top of item sdi.
    My testing method is
    150 Int 120 Eval 100 Scribe 120 Magery with 15 SDI so this is the max possible spell damage without frenzy's questionable 12%

    Then got a guildie who is an gragoyle as well and strip naked so hes at zero resist across the board with 125 str (he has 112 hp butt-naked)

    According to this calculator
    UO Stratics - Direct Damage Spells

    Eval. Int. Bonus: ((EvalInt * 3) / 100) + 1
    Intelligence Bonus: (INT / 10) (Drop decimals from result)
    GM Inscription Bonus: 10% Damage Bonus
    Spell Damage Increase: Int. Bonus + Inscr. Bonus + Spell Damage Increase Items*
    Total Damage: (Base Damage * Eval. Int. Bonus) * ((Spell Damage Increase / 100) + 1) (Drop decimals from result)

    Flame Strike will hit him for 99-108 which is always below 112 therefore should never ever insta-kill him while naked.

    I did (FS -> GHeal -> Gheal ) 30 Rounds and had to meditate twice in the middle. My max damage on him was 108 and min was 99 which is matches the calculator completely and after 30 rounds I failed to instant kill him not even once from full life whatsoever.

    Then took myself down to around 20/150hp and "Gargoyle Berserk" icon is lit up (it does not go away unless you heal back up to 80%+ hp then it wears off in 3 second from the second you reach 80%hp.
    Made sure the icon is on and re-harm myself as needed to keep myself within 8-20 hp the entire time.

    Did (FS -> Gheal -> Gheal) 30 more rounds, and was unable to instantly kill him and my max damage peaked at 108 and min damage was 100. And over the 30 rounds I failed to insta-kill him not even once.

    OK Lets go back to the formulas (woohoo more #s)

    120 Eval/Magery 100 Scribe 27 sdi should grant my flame strike a damage of 108-117. Note that the min damage at 27sdi should be no less than 108 (which is my absolute max damage during the test) Which instantly proved that gargoyle berserk sdi does NOT stack with item SDI nor does it increase spell damage in any way shape or form if you have 120 eval/magery 100 scribe and 15 item sdi. And at a max damage of 117 I should be instantly killing him half of the time which is somewhere close to 15 kills and the result was zero.

    The berserker sdi might work if you didnt have your spell damage capped out (for example 115 eval and/or running 9 item sdi and/or running 80int). But one thing is for sure the berserker sdi will NOT take you over the current max spell damage that any human/elf can do.

    I throw numbers only if I have tested them. Same as when I am the first one on stratics to point out that nerve strike DOES indeed proc spell plague, same way as I was the first one to point out that gargoyle throwing even with 50ssi + divine fury with a 2 second boomerang was impossible to reach 1.25 swing speed cap. Same way as I in some anti-tamer thread where I countered some dude's arguments saying "pets have no sdi and doesnt have 120 eval therefore pet spell damage is very "low"...with a screenshot of spells from my super dragon hitting all 70s as hard as maxed out spell damage legendary mage player.

    This concludes the test.
  21. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Calm down killer, Damn.

    Alright, there we Go, problem solved. (I still think Garg plate is amazingly good)