1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice
  3. The Broadsword team is seeking alternative castle designs! Learn more and discuss here!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Broadsword is hosting a 20th Anniversary Party for UO this September! Learn more here. Will you be there, Guest?
    Dismiss Notice

Navery bugged? Six charcters killed 53 Navery no tangle

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ox_AO, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    This was on Napa Valley in the past three days. That was party and no party. Every character got looting rights every time. One character the same character got four Navery night eyes glasses. The group got two legendary items total. Seven other characters came down killed 5 navery. That is a total of 353 shared kills with no tangle.

    I suspect a character bug since that one character is getting all the drops and was only unlucky not getting the primary drop.

    Any suggestions?
    Thank you
     
    #1 Ox_AO, Dec 20, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  2. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Welcome to my life.
    I have no suggestion to make, sadly, but I can also add that Dreadhorn got even stingier with his drops.
    Before we would at least get a mangled head or mushroom at every kill. Now even those are dropping only once every 3, 4 kills. More often than not we are just getting ML ingredients, and that is with a group of 4 where everyone get looting rights.
     
    Tyrath likes this.
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,867
    Likes Received:
    6,287
    Congratulations the RNG hates you too.
     
    Cupid and Obsidian like this.
  4. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    2,506
    I always seem to have my best luck with Navery using a single character to kill it solo. I can certainly kill it faster if I take 4 accounts, but just don't seem to see the drops that way.
     
  5. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    I used to do it with three characters and got a lot of them.
    I figured the more the better odds.

    after 66 kills or 431 shared kills one tangle
     
    #5 Ox_AO, Dec 20, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  6. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Two examples:

    Personal negative record: 178 Navreys in a row without a Tangle.
    Personal positive record: 11 Navreys in a row and 3 Tangles.

    I must have killed around 2000+ until now and I can tell you, it is sheer and utter luck. Throw a dice with 20 sides and hope for a 1. You can throw 3 times a 1 in a row, but also not a single 1 within 100...
     
    JFSF, Merlin, Ox_AO and 1 other person like this.
  7. Spock's Beard

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    The reward mechanism UO relies upon most heavily is a simple "astronomically low drop chance for single high-value item" model. It's incredibly frustrating because any given attempt is overwhelmingly likely to end with the player going home empty handed. It's largely driven me from the game by making even the few pieces of relevant content this game has feel mostly pointless.

    The example I always harp on is Medusa. When I think of how long it takes to grab the eggs and kill her and multiply that by the incredibly low drop rate of Slither, I realize that it's just not worth my time to even care about. At least if a boss dropped a kill token and you needed 50 tokens or whatever to get an item, I'd feel like I was making progress, but most of the content in this game is just a slot machine where you lose 99% of the time.
     
  8. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    Then on top of that I need these items on every shard. It's nuts
     
    BeaIank likes this.
  9. Spock's Beard

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Proposal:

    A) Currently a given boss is set to drop whatever sweet item randomly at an average of once every X number of kills.

    B) Instead have the boss drop a token on each kill, with X number of tokens required to claim (item) as a reward.

    C) The tokens don't have to be called tokens. They could be Medusa hearts or Navrey fangs or whatever.

    Results:

    A) Now you don't feel like you just lost at a slot machine after 99% of your kills. You know you're at least making progress.

    B) You can sell your token and make some money after each kill, instead of just hoping to win the lottery with a lucky drop someday if you don't get too bored first.

    C) The number of sweet items entering the economy remains unchanged. It still takes X number of kills on average for one to be generated.

    Bonus: You can even still have the boss drop the item randomly upon death for that potential gambler's rush, all you have to do is adjust the drop rates and token costs so that ratio of average kills per item remains the same.
     
    Chazztizer, Jovi and MalagAste like this.
  10. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    The current model is very, very frustrating, yes.
    A token per kill to trade for the bigger, rarer rewards would be so much nicer and would make the content more fun to do.
    It took me 365 kills to get a crimmy from Dreadhorn from my last crimmy drop. It is extremely frustrating. :(
     
  11. Obsidian

    Obsidian Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,170
    Likes Received:
    803
    This is what the Minax created items, Kotl artifacts, and even the original ToT are based on. I like that approach much better, but it still has to be reasonable. I think the Minax Crested items drop too slow and the design is unnecessarily difficult for a solo adventurer (which is what I do most times for PvM).
     
    Fridgster, Nanny and Eärendil like this.
  12. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Well, the captains are mildly challenging at best... unless the spawn is freaking fey or daemon.
    Fey spawn on the city pods is the worst of them all by miles. The Satyrs and Dryads make it so annoying to clear. :/
     
  13. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    A long time ago some of the earlier producers was talking about a progressive system they installed. Which I think has been removed.
    The way i read it years ago. It set a counter +1 for ever kill you make and a high limit it gave a guaranteed drop.

    Lets say the luck role to get the drop was 1D100 you needed to hit 100 to get the drop. Your dice role was the 1D100 + (counter of that boss) greater or equal to 100.
    I think the counter was bugged on some characters they were getting drops like crazy. Rather then fixing it they just deleted it (is my guess.)
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,867
    Likes Received:
    6,287
    Rather liked the Doom thing where the more you do it the larger and larger your chance at a drop until you are pretty well guaranteed to get one. Because IMO most of the game is becoming one big fat grind after another that I just feel is a massive waste of time.
     
    Maximus Neximus and Obsidian like this.
  15. Spock's Beard

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Yeah this sort of system should have been applied to basically every drop in the game. It's also how WoW does legendary item drops these days.
     
    Nanny and Obsidian like this.
  16. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    I agree, Spock - but you are wrong in one point and many told you: Medusa Eggs are the easiest and fastest keys ingame... Just watch here: Every other point of your criticism, however, is valid - especially the droprates. Interestingly, Tangle is not the worst - on the contrary. Slither is a horror, indeed.
     
    Tyrath likes this.
  17. J. E. Tamer

    J. E. Tamer Journeyman
    Governor

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    178
    I gave up on getting tangles from Navrey.
    Now I get the Blackthorn equivalent by turning in Minax items.
    34 hours, from the "Trammel" mage room; somewhat less than that under "Felucca." That's four nights. Your results may vary depending on your equipment, skills, luck.
     
    Ox_AO likes this.
  18. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Governor Campaign Patron UWF

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    2,944
    Frankly, I don't think it should be much of a shock that you may have done 40+ Naverys without a drop. For something that you can chain non-stop without keying for it, the drop rate should be lower compared to other Peerless.

    Having a character with high stealth and having macros to use the flute make a big difference when farming for Medusa keys. Do that and you're golden. You can get 6-10 runs an hour if you do it right.

    I went 4 years without a Slither drop and then got 2 in two months this past fall. Same with the Roof... I went 10+ runs without any of the artifact drops, and then got a pair of Minax Sandals and two Cameos on three out of four runs one week. Sometimes RNG love you, some times it don't.
     
    Modoc, Gameboy and Eärendil like this.
  19. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    I guess that the RNG really hates me, then. It has been 60 Dreadhorns since the last crimmy drop, and now he isn't even dropping mushrooms or mangled heads!
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,725
    Likes Received:
    785
    I'm so jealous of those of you talking about getting X CC/Tangle/Slither every (# of Bosses).

    I've had ONE Tangle and no Slithers since they first appeared.

    I've had TWO Crimmies, and one of those came off Melissa during that event, when two people DIDN'T LOOT because they hadn't heard she dropped anything, and the CC was on the corpse after the instanced corpses combined. Ironically, I'm such a nice guy that if only one of them had admitted not looting, I'd have given it to them - but since both hadn't looted, they decided finders-keepers and let me keep it. I love playing with honest people - one of the benefits of a small shard.
     
    Tyrath and Ox_AO like this.
  21. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    I love small shards
     
  22. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    With regard to Navrey-droprates people need to know four things for calculating correctly:

    (1) There are two levels of RNG-influence: First you need to throw a dice for the chance to get a drop - and then another one for the chance to get a Tangle out of three options: Night Eyes, SoT and Tangle. Most of us complain about the second level droprate (because they got the other stuff, not the Tangle) but mean the first level droprate (the chance to get a drop anyways). Interestingly, the odds are quite good on Navrey compared with Medusa... for example...

    (2) You NEED to know that the items in MANY cases do not fall into your backpack. You need to LOOT her. I would say, that I found half of my Tangles in her corpse....

    (3) You dont even have to damage her, just throw the rocks and you might find the Tangle in her coprse - even without inflicting one single damage point by yourself / without individual looting rights!

    (4) You need to solo her for best droprates. For best loot, you need to do it in a group.

    Just be patient... I think I got roughly 200 drops from a bit more than 2000 Navreys, among them 80-90 Tangles...
     
    #22 Eärendil, Dec 23, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
    Merlin likes this.
  23. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    If you ask me, Navrey is still one of the best encounters: Easy to reach, no keys, funny fight, good items, suitable for beginners, nice timer, quick and easy (with rocks). One of the best examples of game design from the best expasion ever. There are so many places which are far worse (Cora!)
     
    Obsidian and DJAd like this.
  24. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,725
    Likes Received:
    785
    Would you believe I've gotten as many Night Eyes as the other two items combined (2 vs. 1+1)
     
  25. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Bad luck... :-(
     
  26. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    This from the same guy that says Medusa is easy to get keys.
     
  27. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Where is the contradiction? Compare Medusa keys to Shimmering keys, for example... Or Dreadhorn...
     
  28. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    8,371
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    Agreed. I like the way you can turn up and fight Navrey. No need to get any tedious keys or quests to enter. Same with Slasher as you can just turn up and fight. I wish more of the boss encounters were like this.
     
  29. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    However, not many do Slasher, unfortunately. And Cora, which is the third open-world-option, is nothing more and nothing less than a complete and utter failure...
     
  30. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Cora is hidden at a place that is insanely difficult to reach, and sometimes she just doesn't spawn.
    She is also not party friendly. :(

    I still fight here from time to time when I am really, really bored.
    And to this day I have killed about 30 of her and gotten a single drop. Gargoyle hephaestus to add insult to the injury. >.>
     
  31. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
  32. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,867
    Likes Received:
    6,287
    Cora was a disaster from the start... destruction of a perfectly good dungeon for yet another solo encounter that groups can not do... another chink in the chains that bind a community... and not only did it do that ruined a good fishing spot and caused Sudiva to be banished from her home.

    Instead of building places that bring a community together... they give us more and more to breed greed and selfishness.

    Name ONE mob that actually rewards you for working as a team.

    Name encounters that are good for a guild or group of 10?

    When 1 or 2 people can do a champ spawn and pretty much anything else in the game it's sad.
     
    Ox_AO likes this.
  33. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,867
    Likes Received:
    6,287
    Cora was a disaster from the start... destruction of a perfectly good dungeon for yet another solo encounter that groups can not do... another chink in the chains that bind a community... and not only did it do that ruined a good fishing spot and caused Sudiva to be banished from her home.
    Instead of building places that bring a community together... they give us more and more to breed greed and selfishness.

    Name ONE mob that actually rewards you for working as a team. And do NOT tell me about that silly waste of time game that they put in Covetous that gives you a boot to the head as a reward.

    Name encounters that are good for a guild or group of 10?

    When 1 or 2 people can do a champ spawn and pretty much anything else in the game it's sad.
     
  34. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    199
    Well, I win the Navery ****ty RNG roll. I killed her solo, or participated 868 times before I got my first tangle. And no, I'm NOT exaggerating. With that said, I did then go on a very good streak for a year and a half or so, including three tangles in 7 runs, with successive drops on two of those runs.
     
    Cupid and Ox_AO like this.
  35. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    I was down there with my "army of ox" got two more. I didn't count but it was around three hours.

    Edit: Three more hours no tangle. heading there now
     
    #35 Ox_AO, Dec 23, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  36. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    Sea serpents are the only one that is difficult for Shimmering. Dreadhorn is easy peezy
     
  37. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    Gidge:
    duckduckgo is you're friend
     
  38. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Dreadhorn's is pretty easy indeed.
    The only problem is that some days you walk out with 500 Sabrix eyes and 2 Lissith's silk, or 50 Lissith's silk and one Sabrix eye after an hour of farming keys.
     
    Keith of Sonoma and Ox_AO like this.
  39. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    For Medusa you dont even have to kill stuff. You seriously want to tell me, getting keys for Shimmering can be compared to Medusa? Cmon... Btw, today I got 2 Tangles in 5 Navs... Fantastic day. Maybe its a Christmas-bonus :)
     
  40. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    Can't get easier than Corgul's key, though.
    And walking out with at least 12 pinks if you kill him, no matter what, is always a good bonus.
     
  41. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    Absolutely! :)
     
  42. Spock's Beard

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Seriously if you're not some kind of deranged masochistic lifer with 12 accounts who can kill the same boss 100 times, get nothing, and keep on killing it anyway then PVM in this game is virtually worthless to you.
     
    drcossack, CovenantX and BeaIank like this.
  43. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,628
    Likes Received:
    1,871
    They really need to come up with a better drop method for a lot of the peerless, yes.
    I am still pissed that it took 365 kills in one year to get a crimmy out of Dreadhorn.
     
  44. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    For me yes.
    If I had a choice for similar items I would do the shimmering keys.

    You have to understand I run 4 characters typically
     
  45. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
  46. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend BoE

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    644
    Likes Received:
    185
    I don't know anyone named duckduckgo. But, I will be sure to wave hello. *slowly backs away*
     
  47. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
    Governor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,583
    Likes Received:
    1,054
    For sure, there ALWAYS seems to be 1 of the keys that is MUCH harder to get than the others when we are getting several sets!
     
    Eärendil likes this.
  48. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,867
    Likes Received:
    6,287
    For me it's nearly ALWAYS Irks Brain... 15 Irks killed Finally get a brain... Rarely it'll be the briar... But that's very rare.
     
  49. Ox_AO

    Ox_AO Journeyman

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    45
    Mel is so easy for the keys and the boss. you also get a chance at hair dyes.
    Why dread over mel?
     
    Eärendil likes this.
  50. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
    Professional Stratics Veteran The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    2,958
    This! Dread and Shimmering suck with regard to time vs reward