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Necro/Archer Template?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Gb8719, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    I'm playing around with the idea of redoing my classic ABC archer. I'm considering incorporating features of Necromancy into the play style. I like the idea of using wraith form to leech mana, but I'm also wondering about the idea of using Curse Weapon as a form of heal, Corpse Skin along with Consecrate Weapon, and Evil Omen for extra damage.
    Has anyone ever attempted this before? And before anyone says anything... no wammys. I can't stand gargoyles.

    Template:
    100 archery (120 with HH)
    120 tactics
    120 anatomy
    100 chivalry
    120 bushido
    60 necro
    100 spirit speak

    Thoughts and criticism?
     
  2. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    you need to get you 300 combat points if you want full lmc. right now you only have 240 (archery and bush)
    Im assuming this is pvm only character?

    Its ok, personally i would lower anatomy to 100, chiv to 80, spirit speak to 80 to get the extra lmc via adding 60 poison/ninja/ anything really just to fill out the 60 cobat points.

    If you just want necro for wraith form, only need 20 necro to stay in form and just use scrolls.

    Keep in mind if your relying on chiv for more than enemy of one, necro is going to kill your karma

    I like pvp necro archer, but the template is much different. No anatomy, No chiv,
     
  3. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    The template is for strictly PvM. I can't get myself into PvP at all.

    Good point about the mana reduction. Didn't think of that. I may want to reconsider it. I'm wondering if having mana leech will make up for not having the lowest mana cost possible?

    The reason that necro is higher is that I would ideally like to utilize some other accessory skills like curse weapon and corpse skin.
     
  4. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I don't see why you need 120 bushido... you can go with 80.

    What weapon are you going to use?
     
  5. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    Not sure why, to be honest. I guess to reach Achievement faster since I will still be honoring?
    What skill would you put those points in instead?

    I was hoping to use a Yumi most of the time to benefit from the double shot. I'm already assuming that I will need to increase my mana slightly so getting high enough stamina for a 1.25s swing speed with a composite how might not be possible.
     
  6. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    You can't use Yumi in a Wraith form. 60 necro is not enough for VE. So are you not going to use any form?

    You will need mana for special moves. You can reforge Yume for 50 HML. It is better to don't imbue SSI on it to keep HML high. In this case you need to get 35 SSI somewhere. For example, 15 from DF, 10 from enhance, 10 on jewels.

    You can compare my necro archers:
    Macer Archer: http://stratics.com/community/threads/my-macer-archer.309739/
    Wraith Archer: http://stratics.com/community/threads/my-wraith-fencer.317382/#post-2421810
     
  7. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Not to steal this thread but it relates to my question. I took a break before the requirements changed for chivalry. I have a template but albeit much different than the OP. It used to be an old pvp template.

    A few questions though. I understand about the trade-off with chivalry and necro, but concerning Chivalry is it 84 I need now? Would I be better with a different skill altogether now on my necro archer? This is more when I work spawns and so forth with EoO. The rest of the spells will scale quite poorly now with karma loss and the changes, correct?
     
  8. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    If the only thing you use necro for is vamp embrace I don't see karma being an issue. You only lose a little karma when you cast that spell...and it last till you are dead. You can usually kill enough stuff to make up for that spell loss.
     
  9. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Hey thanks TimberWolf. Should I be carrying around the 84 chivalry then for damage output?
     
  10. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Not sure why you landed on the 84 number... More chiv = more damage from EoO and CW. If you're going to use honor, then maxxing chiv is less important. And when using a specifc slayer makes no difference except in some highly specific cases.
     
  11. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    I did some research and from what I was able to find out, you get 100% DI from your items cap and then 200% factors in for slayers. I just thought that you needed the 84 to achieve the 300 cap unless I'm missing something.
     
  12. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Short answer, you're missing something. There's plenty of threads around here exaplaining things, but I am too lazy to link to the threads. Probably read a sticky or two in this forum will give you the answers.
     
  13. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Well the logical reasoning would be as Timberwolf said in terms of vampiric embrace for necro use. Slayers give double damage and then DI from items is there as well. Publish 71 made it so you needed 80 to achieve 100% on Consecrate Weapon. I just was trying to factor in if I couldn't use slayers on certain mobs. After all, you can cast Consecrate Weapon long before you can cast EoO reliably.

    I can see I'll need to change my template. Thanks!
     
  14. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    No one mentions divine fury....
     
  15. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    I'm well aware of divine fury, just if you're DI capped already and HCI capped, whats the point? Whole point of archery is to not get hit...la!
     
  16. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Most of us use DF for the SSI.
     
  17. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    I know it has it's use for SSI as well, point is if you use capped bows and have ssi equipment then I don't see the use for that ability. I can use the mana for another move.

    My main concern was if people have tested the damage output and were happy with the karma trade off, and it does not seem so. Constant necro spellcasting is more likely indicative of using a different skill in place of chivalry it seems. I guess I'll have to go to test and try it out.
     
  18. Lucky Luke

    Lucky Luke Journeyman
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    Before i started my sampire, i did a lot of research and i came to the same conclusion. I run with 84 chivalry to get +50% from Enemy of One to put me at 300%.

    Afaik theres a 300 damage increase cap. 100 from the items, then you can increase this with strength, tactics, anatomy, lumberjacking. This damage increase will be applied to the weapon damage and ultimately define your base damage.

    Then there's the 300 damage modifier cap. These take the above base damage and multiply it. Modifiers come from superslayers (+100%), lesser slayers (+200%), bushido (100% at perfection), consecrate weapon (> 91 skill), divine fury (+20% subject to 100% di cap from items)

    Source: http://www.uoguide.com/Damage_Calculations

    So basically i figured with superslayer & bushido giving +200%, enemy of one would do +50% at 84 chivalry giving 200% + (200% * 1/2) = 300%.

    Tuan, are you saying this is wrong?


    I will look for it.
     
    #18 Lucky Luke, Sep 11, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  19. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    I used to run 90 Chiv and a super slayer, with 120 tact/anat. I went out, bought a scroll, and wear jewelry to take me to 120 chiv. I do more damage with 120 chiv than I did with 90.

    The difference is even more pronounced when I don't have a slayer.

    Worth noting is my bushido skill: 0.0.
     
  20. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Cool, well I'm sure they felt the need to make chivalry a more "usable" skill since I know back in the day you can run it really low and get what you needed out of it. After all there used to be not much added benefit going past 105...similar to necromancy (which with necromancy still think that's the case).
     
  21. Lucky Luke

    Lucky Luke Journeyman
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    I made an error in my post about the modifiers. Damage increase from items counts to your damage modifier too.

    Examples:

    100 di from items, 100 bushido honor, 50 enemy of one (84 skill) = 300 = (200 + (200 * 1/2))
    80 di from items, 20 di from divine fury, 100 super slayer, 50 enemy of one (84 skill) = 300 = (200 + (200 * 1/2))
    100 di from items, 200 specific slayer e.g. dragon = 300
    100 di from items, 100 super slayer, 100 bushido honor = 300
    90 di from items, 20 di from divine fury, 82 enemy of one (120 skill), 15 consecrate weapon (120 skill) = 197 (divine fury counts to 100 di cap from items)

    I'm pretty sure the above is correct.

    90 chiv, super slayer
    => 100 di from items, 100 super slayer, chiv is > 84 so at least 50 di = 300

    120 chiv
    => 100 di from items, 82 di from enemy of one at 120 chiv, 15 di from consecrate weapon at 120 chiv = 197

    So yes, i suppose it'll make a difference :D
     
  22. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    When I get killed and rezed my dress macro uses my arcane boots and spiritwood totem...gives me 105 necro to make Getting into VE form a little easier...then hit my dress alt macro and my phase orb and intel boot pop on.

    I run a sampy with zero anatomy 120 resist spells and 90 chiv. I occasional fizzed with EoO but since I am already hitting with a slayer at 1.25 secs then a couple fizzles never seem to bother me..

    Lately when I die it seems to be because I screwed up and not a problem with my build...I hit for 155 when the guy beside is hit for 185. But the 120 resists keeps me alive when other crap joins in.
     
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  23. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Good Information I like it. Is this concerning archer though, just making sure.
     
  24. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    I use swords.....but it should apply just as easily with archery. The key is you are vamping life or mana as a percentage of the damage you do....so you just need to do good damage.
     
  25. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    No - that is not correct.

    There is DI, and there is DM.

    Slayer, Bushido, EoO, Consecrate, Quivers, when it says that AI does 90% damage maybe something else are all Damage Modifiers.

    Weapons and Jewelry and Shields and Talisman and... (plus some artys), Divine Fury, Provocation Mastery, Tactics bonus, Str bonus, Anatomy Bonus, Lumberjacking, are all Damage Increase.

    You can have 300 DI (Weapon Damage + (DI/100 * Weapon Damage) = what shows in your status window.

    DM will then serve to then takes this number, and multiply it. You can have 300 DM also.

    Max Damage than is 12x your weapon's damage.

    For more in depth discussions, please read the stickies.
     
  26. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    I'm not a mathematics major but I am a statistician. Let's not mix everything together to confuse people.

    DI = 100% cap, point blank.

    I agree that you can have a damage cap increase of 300%, already been stated.

    You won't automatically get 12x your base damage. Not automatically. If you cap out all your skills in addition to your DI, you get about 4x the base. So 120 anatomy, 120 tactics, capped STR and capped DI.

    If you don't use a slayer than you aren't multiplying this damage further, otherwise I do believe you would have another 3x more which would get you your 12x base damage.
     
  27. Lucky Luke

    Lucky Luke Journeyman
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    What exactly is not correct? I referred to damage increase & damage modifier as being 2 seperate entities.

    300% damage increase cap => as uoguide explains, this will define your base damage total. So a max of 4x base damage.
    300% damage modifier cap => will multiple the base damage.

    You might have just misread my post... Let's just end the discussion here or post a link to the sticky :D
     
  28. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    To be short:
    1. You need to understand the difference between Base Character Damage and Final Damage.
    2. There is no 300 DI cap (so you can do more than 12 x Base Weapon Damage)
    3. AI is 0.9 DM so when you use AI you need more than 84 Chivalry to reach 300 DM cap.


    About max damage:
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/warriors-guide-part-1-general-information.303963/
    (1.1.2. Damage Per Hit)

    About Chivalry
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/warriors-guide-part-3-skills-and-virtues.303969/
    (3.8. Chivalry)

    About chivalry amount:
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/warriors-guide-part-5-pure-warrior-templates.308724/
    (5.1.2. Damage multipliers)
    (5.1.4. Divine Fury)
     
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  29. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Current max Base Character Damage with a Composite Bow (16-20) is 81 (~305 DI). With an axe and a lumberjack you can get ~395 DI.
    With 84 Chivalry you have DM = 2 * 1.5 * 0.9 = 2.7. So with a Composite Bow and AI you will do up to 218 damage. With 120 Chivalry you will do up to 243 damage (well you need about 105 Chivalry for this). This numbers are for cases when you haven't other DM like Perfection bonus and etc.
     
  30. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    The bonus you get from df gives youmore free space on your equipment to spend on other mods. And 15%ssi 15%hci and 20%di is really much. The 10% dci decrease doesnt really matter, esp as an archer. Even less with refined armor.

    Especially it reduces the amount of ssi you need on your weapon so your leeching abilities will be higher.

    I dont see a problem casting this spell once every 23 seconds.
     
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  31. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    In terms of calculations I get pretty close to about the same or so for a composite bow, nothing as far as what I said factored in chivalry. If with chivalry yeah its as you say. As stated originally though and with going along with my original question, using chivalry and necro on a raiding archer I can't see working. For the inclined, I had originally discussed pvp template.

    Thank you the chivalry clarification, it confirmed my understanding regarding skill needed and trade off involved. I will scrap the chivalry and replace with another skill.

    Going back to my original question it would seem 84 chivalry is about the minimum needed which is what I suspected to begin with based on the links provided and research that I already did.

    I understand all of the cookie cutter templates out there, yeah blah blah ABC archer etc all. The one reason this game goes on and others die is because you can make a necro archer or treasure hunter/lock-pick archer and so on.

    Other games have cookie cutter templates.
     
  32. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Wraith archer take more damage because it moves slow and don't have reduction from a dragon barding. It is difficult to keep stamina for proper weapon speed... except you use chivalry to refresh it.
    With 0 karma Chivalry is still pretty useful. DF and CW duration is 18 and 9 seconds. DF gives 15+DI, 10+ HCI, 10 SSI, -10 DCI.

    I have tried a wraith fencer (with a shield) and a wraith archer - in both case I feel I need 120 chivalry for DF... though I don't like that I need to keep on 4 spells with my archer: DF, CW, CurWeap, CorpSkin... I have 2/6 with protection and it helps.

    My template was similar to your one.
    120 Archery
    120 Tactics
    80 Bushido (needn't more without Parrying)
    120 Chivalry
    60 Necro
    90 Spirit
    120 Anatomy (can replace this with other skill)

    In the last version I had Disco and Music instead of Anatomy. Well it helps against bossed but doesn't make me invincible. The Slasher had killed me few times.
    In the previous version I had Healing instead of FC/FCR. Well it is a good template... but it is not better than a classic archer.
     
  33. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Hey, well Corwin you give me some hope of resurrecting my necro archer how I used to have it. Never used wraith form much before...I'm not crazy about being immobile. But, am open to giving it a try. Always was one of my favorite variations for an effective fighter that fit my play style.
     
    #33 Diomedes Artega, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014