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Necromancy & Resurrection

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Viper09, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I have been thinking about this for a while. It would seem to me that Necromancy should have some sort of spell to resurrect people. To me, it would make sense. Necromancy deals with death, in a way. Therefore they should be able to "turn back" death and revive someone.
    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Ash

    Ash Guest

    I would like to see animate dead be able to use on fallen players and even pets. There are so many ways to get a player brought back (bandages, magery, noble sacrifice, healers and shrines) but only one way to bring a pet back, and not always easy to find a player willing to rez a dead bettle or lesser hiryu for my samurai.
     
  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    To res pets with necromancy would be a great addition as well. It is a pain to need vets alone to res pets

    But as a note: I know there are plenty of other ways to res characters, but for the joy of the skill of necromancy, it would be a nice addition to be able to res with it :)
     
  4. I disagree -- Necromancy is all about harnessing the power of death, not negating it.

    Hence why we have Animate Corpse, yet not Resurrect.
     
  5. linko50

    linko50 Guest

    I sort of agree with caspian, maybe necro could do an animate spell to bring the player back in a "Lesser" form, and if oyu dont get a real res within ... minutes, you die again :)
     
  6. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    I also agree with Caspian. A necro res would create an "undead" and not a living character...

    Perhaps an undead state for players might be an option... Necro animates a dead player and the player can gather their belongings from their corpse, but with a greatly reduced skill set until they get a real resurrection? or some other "undead" penalty? OK... I admit it is a spur of the moment thought, but I'll count it as a brainstorming idea and see if someone else can make it better from here... :p
     
  7. O! O! ... how about a "half rez"? char changes from a ghost, to 'whateva' ...
    but is essentially blind ... "IN limbo" so to speak ...

    For ghost cams ... !!!

    agreed, strong potential for griefing ...
    BUT ...
    to make an effect that actually neutralizes (yes I would prefer neuter ... but work with what we got ... k?)
    IF we could force a state of "blindness" ... on the ghost cams ... and/or a corpsless ghost at spawns ... better longer lasting than the "exorcisim spell" ...

    Well?

    doable?
     
  8. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    If Necromancy was given a resurrection spell it would most likely be temporary, just as Animate Dead resurrections only last a short period of time. So would you like a Mage to resurrect you forever or a Necromancer for 10 minutes? Of course you would get some kind of bonus like being immune to poison or something.
     
  9. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Hrmm, how about something like a temporary self-resurrection that can only be used so often? The necro would need to sustain himself by using SS alone and possibly only by drawing from corpses and would have no mana?
     
  10. Let's be agree. Necro are a bit like witches ! :stir: (YES I COULD FIND A WAY TO USE THAT SMILEY :stir: Ok Ok I don't shout anymore)
    Actually, necromancers should not be able to res people but they should be able to use the ghosts of players for their own purposes. For example, necromancers should be able to see future ! Why not allow necromancer to do some tricks to ghosts, like soul capturing ! Maybe in the future, uo will have some soul stones and maybe some demons or some other evil creatures to work with them. Let's ask for some socketed weapons and armors ! Ok I leave ! sorry :thumbdown: to myself
     
  11. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    There are a million different things that could be done with all the added skills from Age of Shadows on. Instead of focusing on new skills all the time why not really make each skill unique and stand out with many spells? Just look at them compared to Magery.

    Magery - 64 spells
    Necromancy - 17 spells
    Chivalry - 10 spells
    Ninjitsu - 8 abilities
    Bushido - 6 abilities!
    Spellweaving - 16 spells

    For example what if Necromancy had field spell that would curse you as you walked in it? Or Chivalry had a spell which would negate the next curse cast on a target. There are so many possibilities.

    *Added*

    Oh here is an interesting idea. What if Necromancy had a spell that you could activate. If you kill a player during the duration of the spell, the dead player becomes cursed and cannot be resurrected for 120 seconds. Only a Paladin using a counter spell can dispel the ability.
     
  12. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    I do think necromancy needs boosting. It is in a nerfed and imbalanced, underpowered state. I do not think necromancy necessarily needs ressurrection or even a cure ability, and if it ever eventually gets these things the time to do it is not now. What needs to addressed now is the fact that there are far too many overpowered counters to necro. The remove curse ability itself is overpowered and needs nerfing. That ability was also put in into apples and talismen, and while those have timers, that doesn't make them balanced (they shouldn't exist, period). And if you wear the right resists, you can make necromancy's resist reducing spell, which is necessary to do sufficient damage, WORTHLESS (actually, scratch that...you can make the spell not worthless, but helpful to you, the necromancer's opponent, since it also boosts some resists). I'd much rather necro's have curse. Heck I'd even take half of what the curse spell does. But corpse skin is greatly underpowered and needs changed. Anyhow, necros are not overpowered at all as some people like to claim. They are underpowered and need boostings, not more nerfings. Speaking of nerfings, we just got nerfed yet again just recently when remove curse was made to be capable of removing blood oathe. :(

    Also, I think the majority of anti-necro arguments are made by people who either haven't a clue how to fight necros or want PvP to be imbalanced in their favor. But to address two things, wither and forms: Friendly fire should be turned on, and not just for wither, for everything. Forms are NOT overpowered given the requirements and disadvantages to using them IF they are used by actual necromancers. They are overpowered when used due to items or soulstones, and that needs to be addressed...if you don't have the necessary skill in necromancy on your character, you should auto-poof out of the necro form you're win.
     
  13. Mythic

    Mythic Guest

    I dont think necromancy needs any changes, theres a reason necros have exorcism and pallys have noble sacrifice.
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    First off, from what I recall, remove curse has worked on blood oath.
    Second, we are not talking about whether or not necro is overpowered or underpowered, leave that for another thread
     
  15. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Exorcism is cool, kind of, but it only works in champion spawn areas in dungeons.
     
  16. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Oh brother.... yeah that's why 5 out of 10 pvpers are necros. With the remainder being archers and tamers.
     
  17. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    One possible way Necromancers could resurrect players for real would be a life exchange. The Necromancer would resurrect a player and then face unavoidable death 5 minutes later.
     
  18. That would be interesting
     
  19. Jahira-Tor

    Jahira-Tor Lore Master
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    Thats a great idea!

    I agree, necro's shoudlnt be able to create life. Only manipulate it.
     
  20. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    How about being able to raise the corpses of players into some kind of free-roaming rev. like in the t2a dungeon?
     
  21. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    This has been brought up on stractics million of times on stratics since the release of AoS.

    It is basically :bdh:

    Not a bad idea since paladin has noble sacrifice. So maybe make it so if you use necromancy to resurrect people you have maybe 20% chance to get instantly killed by a death deamon since you broke the "contract" with the underworld (80% of the time it will work just like magery res.

    Necromancers were only suppose to raise a dead into the undead zombie-like creatures and control them. Therefore a life should have been sacrificed when you give someone a real 2nd life.
     
  22. Ancient Sosarian

    Ancient Sosarian Journeyman
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    Every Character is ABLE to resurrect pets, all they need do is work up the requisite skills.

    Necromancy involves controlling and/or manipulating the dead, it is baffled by life and the living.
     
  23. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    I really think they should; I've supported this before..
     
  24. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    Yeah bring back players weakened health and cursed.
     
  25. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Probably the dumbest thing I've read today. Necromancy is over-powered as it is. It does not need any changes. You people all need to stop pancakes about PvP changes. PvP is more balanced than it has been in a long time.
     
  26. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    I would like to see a ressing spell for necros. I guess it would be fine, if there were any draw-backs for the ressed included. Possible sideeffects could be:
    - temporary stat-loss
    - temporary skill-loss
    - sensitivity against garlic
    - sensitivity against chiv spells
    - a HUGE karma loss (mabe even set to a negativ)

    Theres one mayor change to necro/chiv that I would like to see: Disallow casting of chiv spells when beeing transformed by necromancy.
     
  27. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    If you think necromancy is overpowered (you're not even suggesting it's balanced, you honestly think it's overpowered?), then I suggest that you are one of the many people who either 1) haven't a clue how to properly fight necros or 2) prefer some skills to be imbalanced, and do not like any challenge and threat to their own template.

    So, tell me then, in in what ways do you think necromancy is, all things considered, overpowered? Oh, and before you try to argue that, I'd point out that a significant percentage of PvPers being necros (something I have not seen on my shard but some seem to think is the case on others) does NOT mean necromancers are overpowered.
     
  28. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    If they even consider doing this animate dead would need to be increased to 80 or 85 to cast (a bad idea). Also, if they are going to allow you to animate dead pets back to life with necromancy they better decided that tamers with 110 magery 110 vet and 110 lore don't need bandages to res pets either. It kind of sucks when you are duoing a peerless and that peerless has managed to kill both of you and cause you to lose your bands then kill your pet. Its frustrating when both pets are down and neither of you have bands and all you can do is walk away.
     
  29. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    #3) We don't play on Siege where everyone runs around in crap armor.

    Try a production shard where the necros have 2/6 casting, 40% LMC, 12 MR, all 70's suits.
     
  30. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    OMG...like if they eat that apple thing on a timer I can't put up the same curse the exact moment they do that and if I miss them eating the apple (they might as well of put a graphic over the players head of the evil omen) I must not be paying any attention at all. Oh, and when the necromancers most damaging spells in pvp don't rely on fire or poison resistances at all it sure seems like all they would ever do in pvp is cast corpse skin.

    Either the poster doesn't understand how to play a necro or doesn't understand why there are more necromancers then mages in PvP. Its all about counteracting what everyone else is doing, but you get some awesomely evil counteracts. If you don't like remove curse then mind rot the mana from the paladin before they even get a chance to cast it. There aren't that many paladin mages and most of the paladin archers/dexxers don't have much mana to get rid of before they can't use any chivalry abilities.
     
  31. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Another completely Pro-Necro post by Matsumatek...*Sighs*. Necro is overpowered in several ways on production shards.

    #1. Evil Omen. Completely negates 120.0 Skillpoints in a skill, not only that, but also adds +15% Damage to next direct damage (Used to be +25%, but they lowered it to 15% with PvP, still, that's more +Damage % than GM Inscrip gives), and boosts Poison level by 1 (Making a Nox Mage's Poison spell not only completely un-resistable, but also boosting it to Lethal). If hit with EO (Which takes about 0.5 secs to cast with 2 FC, takes almost no mana), you might as well not even have Resist. Take a look at a Duel with a Necro/Mage in it. Look at how often EO is spammed. It's used to keep a person in a curing/healing cycle and is also used for the Exp+FS+EO combo to do incredible damage.

    #2. Strangle. Only DoT spell in the entire game besides Poison (Which can easily be cured by a 0.5 sec Cure cast or a Greater Cure Pot), damage tics occur faster as it progresses, damages Stamina, and does more damage when Stamina is low. Is absolute hell for any Mage if they're not a Chiv Mage. Try dueling against a Necro/Mage when using a Pure Mage, they'll keep your ass in a heal/cure cycle with EO+Poison and disrupt a good amount of your spells with Strangle.

    #3. Blood Oath. BO is a annoyance to Chiv Warriors or warriors who know to use Concussion Blow. However, a Mage has no counter to BO. Even with Resist skill lowering the damage you take from BO, a Mage is put on the defensive as soon as it hits him. Not to mention a EO+Blood Oath makes him take alot more damage from his own spells and makes BO last longer.

    Necro's can also heal with SS while having a spell ready and use it to heal through Poison/Mortal Strike.

    Necro's are pretty much Mage Slayers.
     
  32. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ok...back to the topic of this post...

    I actually do think that mages should be able to cast res on their dead pets. In all sense it should work. The ghosts back to life. A dead pet walks around as a ghost if bonded, and if they have vet it should bring back an animal's ghost.

    However, if they were to use animate dead as some way to raise a pet or even a person, temporarily or not, back from the dead they would not have to raise the min. skill so it could be used. They would just have a min. requirement in Animate Dead before you could use it to raise someone. Just like healing/anatomy, you can use it for healing but before you can cure you need a certain level in that skill to use it, and to res you need an even higher min to res someone with it.
     
  33. Killian

    Killian Guest

    About the original Topic in this thread... agree'd 100%! This shouldn't even be an issue... what they should do is just make it use the casters entire mana pool, and make the resurected be cursed for like.. 3 mins or somthing.

    A necromancer mainly manipulates Death's powers, but, they also are genereralized as Deamon Summoning and the use of Black Magic.

    To touch up on the other topics in this thread, Magery has Deamon summoning, which clearly should be a Necromancy spell, as well Blade Spirits and some other spells...

    In regards to it being overated in PvP, If you can't beat a Necro in PVP with a pure mage.. then I guess thats just how it goes, You shouldn't be able to kill every type of character, there isn't a single king of templates.. Necromany I'm sure has a weakness against another type of character. I don't PVP so I'm sure my opinion isn't validated... Correct me if I'm wrong when I say that Necromany isn't unbeatable in PVP.. hard? maybe.. but im sure people can be them.. :stretcher:
     
  34. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Glad we agree :)
     
  35. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ahh, and say the amount of mana used determines the negative affects or something similar. :)
     
  36. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Think you're mixing up Necromancers with Warlocks, Killian. Necromancy and Demonology are two totally different things. Which is why Necromancer's can't summon Demons in UO.
     
  37. Killian

    Killian Guest

    Well, thankfully, I did some research on this topic and found this:

    " since the Renaissance, necromancy has come to be associated more broadly with black magic and demon-summoning in general, sometimes losing its earlier, more specialized meaning. By popular etymology, nekromantia became nigromancy "black arts", and Johannes Hartlieb (1456) lists demonology in general under the heading. Eliphas Levi, in his book Dogma et Ritual, states that necromancy is the evoking of aerial bodies (aeromancy). (page 64) " .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy

    I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source of information.. but the sources listed for it's information on the subject seem in check.

    BUT, I would assume by the spells Necromancy has, they have taken all that into to consideration. The fact that they can cast " Vengful Spirit " would mean Necromancers in UO play with spirits of the fallen as well.

    With that in mind...
    " In religion, folklore, and mythology a demon (or daemon, dæmon, daimon from Greek: δαίμων [ðaïmon]) is a supernatural being that has generally been described as a malevolent spirit, and in Christian terms it is generally understood as a fallen angel, formerly of God. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon

    Thus, it Makes Sense.. :)


    ColterDC- Glad to Agree with you, no point in standing by my points when have no reasoning, but I will give my opinion in the subject..

    Viper09 - Sounds great, but, that punish's the people who are resurected, when they have no controal on that. Another way would be make depend on the Karma of the player being resurected :) it they have great Karma, longer Curse.. If they are Negative.. Less Curse time.. :)
     
  38. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    :ten:
     
  39. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Yep, exactly.

    PS Giggles: Heh, cover art of Disturbed's new CD, "Indestructible".
     
  40. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    lol yes I stole it! Cant WAIT to go buy a copy.

    *edit* typo
     
  41. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Hmm. Good points indeed. Thus I would be inclined to suggest again, an ability for a necromancer to temporarily self-resurrect with no mana and only be able to heal with SS on dead bodies, or with some kind of penalty until they properly resurrect themselves. Thus meaning that they are technically a walking-dead so to speak. No ability to fight either, but others can attack them too, perhaps?
    This would be so, if they die in some far off place such as Nu'Jhelom or similar places with no healers, to loot themselves and try to get back to civilization before timer runs out, or similar such things.
    Just an idea :)
     
  42. Killian

    Killian Guest


    I like the Thought about self-resurrect... It would be cool maybe make it so they are a ghost form(cursed) for a certian time dependant of SS skill... while they can loot their bodies and run around, they cannont be attacked nor attack anything during being cursed... this would just make it a last resort type thing to bail a player out of sticky situations.. This would even work too if it was able to be used on other players... It uses Death, if they resurrect a player, and it uses spirits... :) it's not a straight up resurrect, but it can be a life saver in certain times..
     
  43. Mythic

    Mythic Guest

    I actually really kind of like that Idea, and I was against it initially, the person being resurected will suffer the karma loss Id assume, so pallys would not be inclined to take it, and ya Why the hell should a necro be able to cast chiv spells or vice versa, the higher of the 2 skills should take prevalince
     
  44. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    It is very hypocritical to see a paladin necromancer running around, lol.
    I do not beleive I need to say why.
    But again, we could see it as a corrupted paladin, yeah?
     
  45. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    why not sending the player away to a healer if he wants that. i think a necro should not be able to give life but deal with dead and gohsts. so exorcism is a good idea but dindt work often only at chmap spwans.
     
  46. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I wish exorcism worked outside of champ spawns too, that would be kinda fun :p
     
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