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New Champ spawn idea

Discussion in 'UHall' started by yadiman, Oct 22, 2012.

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  1. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Every 2 hours, 2 different champion spawns chosen at random would activate. Players in fel would receive a warning message informing them of the 2 locations. Players may either run to the champ spawn or use a teleporter, but they have to be there by the deadline. Players may not exit 2 minutes before the deadline, and no one may enter after the deadline. Recall abilities will have a 30 sec cast time. Players will have 5 min to fight before mobs start spawning. Dead players will have 2 options. They may leave through the normal entrance or through the teleporters (but will be unable to re-enter). Or, the dead players may chose to possess the evil creatures (not the final boss tho).

    Rewards of course include new arties / replicas. In addition, give the conquering players a 24-hour +5 to all stats buff, and/or a deathly or shimmering glow effect on their character.

    Also, Order/Chaos battles for control of a town can end with a fight against a powerful town Lord. Rewards can be similar to current champ spawn loot.
     
    #1 yadiman, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  2. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    If its a champ spawn giving replicas then it shouldn't be a safe haven for players. Much like spawns, there is risk for the reward.
    Seems just like a safe place to spawn you could just try to hold people off till the window closes. I'm sure players that don't pvp would be all for this, but if that were the case they could just add power scrolls and replicas to all the tram facet shards.
     
  3. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    It's only a safe haven if they are the victors of the fight, and even then the losers could still fight back as npcs if they chose. If no one wants to fight them, that's not the issue. With only 2 being active every two hours... Increase loots and I'm sure many people will want to do them.
     
  4. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    If it were to lock people out though that's absurd.

    You could have a zerg guild just try to block off something like that so a small group couldn't get in before timer goes off of locking people out. Said zerg could have a specific pvm group that completes the spawn while the other half is preventing people from getting in and then everyone in their guild rolls on it[or some sort of distribution]. As opposed to a spawn where you have to can be raided at any moment.
     
  5. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Btw i just edited it to prevent exiting the dungeon 2 min before the deadline.

    To your point, if a guild has that many people, of course they are going to win the spawn. And there are at least 2 entrances to most of these spawns so you can't just camp 1 entrance. There's also 2 spawns active at once to prevent some mega guild from dominating the shard.

    You are just being a Debbie Downer to preserve your own interests of waiting till someone else does a spawn and bringing your own bigger sized group. If that is what you call pvp....
     
  6. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I pvp with a small group. However it's plain and simple if any risk vs reward is in there should be an open invite the entire time like a spawn or a harrower. why would this be any different? It would just be something that big guilds could exploit.
     
  7. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Sorry, but there is no logic in your argument. How is my suggestion exploitable, but the current one is not?... If a big guild wants to take a spawn, they are going to take it provided they are coordinated and better than their opponent.
     
  8. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    There's another reason i offered this suggestion as well, it's sort of like a group arena with real rewards.
     
  9. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Being revered as the best isn't rewarding enough[arena/pvp]?

    If its a spawn arena though having it lock out people isn't a good idea. It eliminates a risk vs reward, especially if there are two sites. If you're talking about pvp, then it should be in one spot not two to condense people in this hypothetical situation. Also if you're talking about having lots of pvp, then you'd want people to get in on this from start to finish.
     
  10. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Where is the risk in waiting till your opponent spawns a boss and bringing more people than they have? That is even LESS risk...So take your "truth" elsewhere.
     
  11. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Sorry but you have a terrible idea, and I'm showing you how it is flawed and could be exploited. Don't get me wrong I like that you're trying, but you keep coming up with ideas much like your pets having 150 wrestling ect that are just bad.

    You want to get replicas without risk, having two different locations where people could attempt to prevent others from getting in and their guild could have it locked up for two hours. If it was for pvp then why would it not be a single location that everyone would fight over for hours?

    At least with spawns you can attempt to fight the entire time and even stop them from running out with scrolls when the champ is dead. I don't pvp in a big group so claiming having more people at the end doesn't account for much. When you don't have a 5 minute window to fight you can accomplish a lot.
     
  12. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    and you keep twisting my ideas to fit your own selfish interests

    Firstly (AGAIN), I said pets should be nerfed in pvp, and 150 wrestle on a reptalon still leaves them with crap resists vs. spells (i also said maybe 150 is too high but it should be much higher anyway)

    Secondly, You...Still...Didn't...Say...How the current method is risky.... (sure it's risky for the person doing the work, but not for your little group you're trying to protect)

    And As...I...Already...Stated.... There's 2 spawns to prevent 1 guild from dominating the shard.

    Thanks for your supporting evidence, so you support dying and coming back in an endless cycle...

    Unless you want to provide some unbiased feedback, Get out of my thread
     
  13. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Since you're talking about spawns what part don't YOU understand? The risk is surviving the fight, the reward is scrolls and replicas. You want to have it so that people get locked out so there is no risk for the reward.

    Oh you mean an endless cycle of pvp? Because that's what spawns do they facilitate a risk, for the reward. Yes I do support that. What I don't support is how you're trying to act like this is in the name of pvp, yet you don't want pvp to be involved. You want a reward with no risk. Also it's not endless one side will win or give up. If you want to spawn with no risk, they already have those for you in tram facets. The best part is you don't even have to wait 2 hours and for an announcement to where the spawns are. You're welcome and enjoy those spawns that are already in game. ;)

    We all look forward to your next new idea. First pets with higher skills than champs and peerlesses, now spawns that you can be locked out of.
     
  14. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Yep, and everyone is dying to hear your next dexer with wrestling idea. BTW, i thought I told you to get out of my thread unless you have something intelligent to add. And it seems obvious that's not going to happen.
     
  15. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Keep it civil or take it to PM.
     
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  16. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    we already have this as peerless
     
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  17. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Champion Spawn rewards should ALL be temporarily cursed (not just the power-scrolls), they should also add a special hue to the player that received the replica, so everyone would know who received the reward. The replica/artifact would work similar to the way Faction Sigils work right now. If the rewarded player dies, whoever got the killing blow would be hued as the reward would be in their pack, or the item could be stolen by a thief which would hue the thief. (promotes group play, thieves, and pking.) Players holding the cursed reward are able to hide, but NOT stealth. if you help-stuck the item drops to the ground just as power-scrolls would.

    Exiting of the dungeon would remove the curse of the item, allowing it to be insured/blessed. Doing this, the Star-room gate shouldn't be use-able to one who has a cursed reward to exit a dungeon only the dungeon exits would remove the curse on replicas (T2A & dungeon entrance/exits) many ways out.

    Additional changes would be needed...


    Trammel Artifacts - should be 150/150 durability & Non-Powder-able with Powder of Fortification. rewards would hold the "Imbued" tag (replicas/artifacts wouldn't be cursed at all from tram-ruleset spawns)
    Felucca Artifacts - should be 255/255 durability & Powder-able with Powder of Fortification. (fel perk)


    The above rules would only apply to spawns that are in both Tram & Fel rule-set facet

    Spawns that are only in Fel & only in Tram, Tokuno, Ilshenar, Malas, & Ter Mur would all have the 150/150 durability/non-powder-able versions. with a 10% chance of dropping a 255/255 durability & powder-able version of the items. It would be important to have absolutely no shared drops between these spawns in all facets.
     
    #17 CovenantX, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  18. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Fel is at best a niche market, and the term "niche" may be overstating the level of interest it has.

    In this instance it would seem pointless to make a niche market more attractive simply because it is niche, and/or to offer greater rewards for it simply because it is niche.

    If the interest in Fel were greater, there would be no need to make such a proposal: People would already be there and there wouldn't be the need for a long, long line of incentives to get people to go to Fel, going all the way back to Khaldun.

    Your first set of proposals amounts to asking for it to be easier to at champ spawns take something someone else has earned. When others ask for their own playstyles to be easier, folks sarcastically post pictures of easy buttons. Under the current rules it's still quite, quite possible to acquire a champ spawn item that someone else has earned, it just requires more work than it does under your proposal. If such a mechanic is going to exist in the game at all it is simply good common sense that it shouldn't be easy. If done your proposals would result in Fel being even more of a niche market than it already is.

    -Galen's player

     
  19. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    How about this.
    While working a spawn you receive spawn credit flag after significant contribution toward killing the spawn.
    During the spawn or killing the boss you can get minor or major spawn rewards.
    If you are killed by a player, any spawn rewards on your corpse will remain on corpse unlootable for 2 minutes. After that 2 minutes they are freely lootable. Including by spawn creatures. If they are not looted within 5 minutes or if they are looted by spawn creatures they will delete themselves.

    If you are in a spawn area, and are killed by a spawn credit flagged player, you will receive temporary statloss of 30% for 5 minutes, and lose 5k + insurance costs.
    The player killing you will be awarded 2.5k + your insurance costs.

    Artifacts
    Fel artifacts are brittle/150 Durability


    Trammel side
    Spawn artifacts are Ephermal/150 Durability
     
    #19 Logrus, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
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  20. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    No I had a suggestion for those complaining about not being disarmed, using a mechanic that is already in game.

    You on the other hand have these brilliant ideas. Spawns that no one can raid after 5 minutes with all the rewards and no risk. Pets with 150 wrestling. Casting spells on the run.

    I'm just glad you're not a dev, I can only imagine what other great changes you'd propose.
     
  21. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    This is a point, that really only effects felucca though, not spawns in general.

    Felucca has no worthy incentives, the rewards (replicas) can be gotten from both sides tram/fel. There's no difference between them. except fel has a risk of being raided, why take the risk when the rewards are the same?


    More importantly, I hope when spawns are re-vamped, the rewards are dependent on spawn difficulty & you don't get the same rewards from different spawn/champs. It devalues items faster, because people always resort to the easiest and most efficient way of getting them.

    I feel it's important the Devs really need to take a look at this, and make sure there are different incentives to participate in these things for both sides (fel & tram)

    tram needs it's own rewards, separate from fel (maybe I'd actually do tram spawns, if I could get something different)

    In fel - There has to be something to fight for, otherwise it's just pvp. We have Yew gate & Arenas for that...
     
  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Anything from the Primeval Lich, and there's a lot more than people realize, can only be gotten in Fel.

    Anything from the Abyssal Infernal.

    Anything from the Harrower can only be gotten in Fel.

    Power Scrolls, which will be needed for as long as people make new characters in UO and can't be shared like equipment, are only available in Fel.

    Transcendence Scrolls which have over .5 without manipulation can only be obtained from Fel.

    Anything from Dungeon Khaldun, no longer desired but once highly-so, can only be obtained from Fel.

    Double Resources, double fame, can only be obtained from Fel. The double fame in effect means that the highest levels of Fame can only be obtained from fighting in Fel; counter-intuitive because in Fel there's a lot less people around to see you do it.

    Some of the artifacts that also spawn in both places anecdotally seem to spawn a lot more in Fel as well.

    The fact that many of the people who still play in Fel don't like the rewards unique to Fel doesn't mean they don't exist. They are in Fel because they like FEl.

    This game has tried over and over again to make the Fel business model works and all of the efforts have worked only for the short-term.

    All the reasons to PvP in the world won't matter in the face of people just not wanting to.

    My time in Fel has over the last couple of years gone from "frequent" to "occasional" to "barely ever." And it has nothing to do with the rewards.

    Indeed literally the only reason I'm ever there is for the limited number of unique rewards that I feel I can marginally benefit from and I'm increasingly wondering if I should even just give those up, and not because I do not want or need them.

    -Galen's player

     
  23. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    I like this, except i think Fel artifacts should be 255 brittle, and Tram 155 brittle. (Ephermal is useless) Fel could also have more variety and a greater drop rate of artifacts. Also increase the death penalty gold loss to 20k + insurance.

    BTW, is there a way to block d-bags from seeing/responding to your posts? It's like arguing with a donkey.
     
  24. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Don't like the idea of getting locked out we are constantly raiding a team of 10+ with our 2-3 and although it may take a few times we eventually lock it down..if when we died we were booted there would be zero point to even raiding..sorry bad idea
     
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  25. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Just cuz it doesn't benefit your playstyle doesn't mean it's a bad idea. And I'm not surprised this 15 year old gaming community is stubborn towards new ideas. Which by the way, can be seen in many other games. Darkfall has set-time pvp/capture events, and it's nearly impossible to rez-rush. And I haven't seen a game yet where it's so easy to run away from a fight.
     
  26. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    The point isn't only to bring Tram-players to fel, but to bring fel players to tram. a circle to keep interest if you will, tram & fel need different rewards or something unique to both sides to do this.

    I don't like Tram so I don't go there for much but I don't have a choice for some things, so it's ok to force me to go to tram and get things only from there? it's the same argument from a different aspect.

    The primeval lich spawn, is probably the only "true" incentive for fel spawning. and it's not because of the drops from the boss... it's because of the chance of spawning deco from the area. So I agree with this. but the drops from the boss should still be changed up regardless. it's also one very small area, one thing that doesn't appeal to pvpers like myself about it though, is that there's a Trammel Entrance on one side of the spawn, same with the abyssal infernal. sure they have drops unique to them, but so do the tram only spawns mentioned in my first post.

    IMO Shared-drops should NOT exist. split up the deco/equipment evenly between all champs so if you want something specific you need to hunt something specific.
    The peerless/SA mini spawn system is a good example of this. the only thing is, fel side is harder but gives the same rewards. & same drop chance.

    Most (not all) of the harrower drops are also available in the tram-only spawn in Bedlam. There are also more exclusive drops from bedlam spawn, than the harrower. (not counting the scrolls) btw scrolls have been around longer, and have lost most of their value.

    Transcendence scrolls are obtainable in both tram/fel the only thing that's different would be the Point value. you also don't need to do spawns to get these, they drop in T-maps too.

    Khaldun, I'm pretty sure the only thing you can get (rewards) exclusive to Khaldun, are the books from the named Cursed. other than that, everything can be gotten elsewhere (but I cannot wait for this to get revamped :D ) *** possible bug** the Ancient lich hasn't spawned in Khaldun for ages.

    Double resources and fame have absolutely Nothing to do with spawns. but now that you mention double resources... ****Possible bug* How come we don't get double fish in fel? ;)

    I don't know so much about the drop rates in fel vs tram as for the replicas. to me it seems to be the same. I've gotten replicas from both sides, but I typically don't do spawns in tram.

    I do agree with you about the whole fel business models working for "Short-term", except for with powerscrolls, they were great up until about 2-3 years ago. they are near useless now. Scroll binders didn't help IMO, they just devalued power scrolls even more, making it easier to get higher/better scrolls in fewer spawns. (less of a grind isn't Always good, this effected the fel spawns in a negative way)

    We need a "Fix" or a new "True-Incentive", It could come with the re-vamping of champ spawns. I just hope they change up the rewards, and have drops different instead of the same reward from different spawns.

    I found this interesting.

    You say it has nothing to do with the "Rewards", but in the second sentence you say it's for a number of "Unique rewards", you're considering giving them up.
    Might I ask which rewards you're referring too?


    My post (in this thread) isn't entirely based around Pvp, although I do tend to bring pvp into these things especially when it effects the pvp aspect... because I'm a pvper.
    My main concerns regarding PvP, would be skill/template balancing & more versatility. which is demonstrated extensively in *PvP needs some Attention* .
     
  27. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    You know this is how spawns were sort of setup when they were first introduced. but you were only "locked out" After you died in the spawn, you were teleported out, to a random fel city, and had a 2-5 minute timer before you could re-enter a fel dungeon.

    It only worked that way for Blues, this was Before insurance (they kept their stuff) Reds, dropped everything and had to walk out as a ghost.

    So yes I agree that this is Not the right way to go.
     
  28. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I'm very open to new ideas whether its new champs or revamping old systems..I just don't think with such a diminishing player base that furthering the time between fights does anything but continue to hurt it even more we can barely keep fights as it is due to not enough people/stale content or high res or whatever you or anybody else personally believes.. IMO to keep people coming back to fel you need to poll the general fel population and not just one single persons opinions and to be quite honest as thought out as your idea is I do not think the general fel public would agree we spawn to fight not hold choke points or keep the fight away anymore we are way beyond that point there just isn't 10v10v10 anymore it's a very very rare occurrence...sorry if you disagree
     
  29. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Well i was advocating increasing the rewards (not just items but temp buffs) for futher incentive. And in the current scenario, it's usually just PvP characters vs PvMers. I think it would be a better PvP fight in my scenario. Could even reduce mob's hit points so the focus is on pvp.

    And between spawns, players could fight for control of towns (Order/Chaos) for rewards as well. Can time it where one siege is happening at opposite 2 hr intervals.

    Edit: and yes the lock-out probably won't happen, but they could at least implement some variation of Logrus' suggestion. Maybe players killing the spawn get a temp buff increasing stats, and people who die to them suffer increased gold loss and temp stat loss.
     
    #29 yadiman, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  30. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I actually forgot about the 3.0 Transcendence scrolls that drop from Slasher, Medusa, Navrey & Stygian Dragon peerless encounters which are only in ter mur (tram-ruleset facet).

    These are more rare than the ones you'd get from spawns, but certainly a higher point value.
     
  31. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    And much-rarer drops than anything in Tram or any facet with a Tram rules set that I'm aware of.

    You sure about Navery? Never heard of that.

    -Galen's player
     
  32. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This is the first I've heard of any Fel player saying he wants to bring Fellies to Trammel.

    So, yeah.

    From a business perspective Trammel has the great advantage that people actually want to play there and do not need to be lured. Felucca, by contrast, is a failed business model that repeated social engineering attempts have not successfully revived.

    If you want to pursue it from a social perspective I could trot out a long line of evidence starting with Lord British's thief story and stretching from here to the moon.

    "True" is an interesting word. It means you admit there are rewards but you do not personally consider them sufficient, therefore to your mind they do not count as rewards. This is an intellectually weak position.

    This basically means what I keep pointing out which is that the rewards are there, it's just that people do not like them enough to actually come to Fel. The rewards exist. The people currently in Fel do not consider them enough of a reward for participation in a niche market, and the people from Tram don't consider them enough of an incentive to go to Fel, but this isn't because there's something wrong with the rewards.

    And the reality is that nothing will make people come to Fel for extended periods of time because it's Fel itself that's a failed business model. Like the proverbial lemonade stand with all the advertising in the world, but a poor product.

    I grow very weary of this discussion which I've had variations on endless times. The incentives are there. People don't want them. Fellies at once want Trammies to come to Fel so they have victims and do not want them there ("GO BACK TO TRAM!!"), and at once do not like Tram (which you admit to) and want to go there ("LET ME BRING MY RED TO TRAM")

    If history is any guide, sooner or later the team (clearly enamored with the Fel lifestyle to a ridiculous degree) will grant a new incentive, and it'll work for a couple of weeks. Maybe a couple of months.

    Then we'll be right back where we are now because the issue is Fel itself.

    -Galen's player
     
  33. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Honestly i didnt read all the posts here.

    First off DO NOT INCLUDE CHAOS/ORDER IN ANYTHING!! This was a simple and pure system and i think i can speak for every old player in saying this is the same simple system we all want back.

    Locking players out is also a horrible idea. I don't really know what would be a good idea for revamping spawns but i can say the community just isn't there to beef them up a whole lot and would result in a major scroll shortage. Maybe randomizing levels and definately randomizing replica drops would be a start.


    This talk makes me sad and mad at the same time.
    Failed business model? UO was launched with Fel only. It thrived and continued to gain community with players looking for protection and companionship. It wasn't until added facets, skills and items enabling players to "do it yourself safely" were added in which the community started to fade. Why don't people go to fel? Why would they? All Fel players were really given are spawns. The time it takes to do a spawn a player could solo Medusa 2-3 times with a chance at a reward that sells for 9x the going rate of the highest priced powerscroll.

    It's only "a failed business model" because tram rulesets are being given everything. UO has turned into an item based game and items aren't cheap thus players are going to flock to what would give the biggest payday...which 90% of that happens to be in Tram ruleset from slithers to imbuing ingredients.
     
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  34. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    On the contrary.

    Do you think they would have bothered to make Trammel at all unless they had to? Do you think we'd be having this discussion if Fel weren't failing?

    If Fel weren't failing we wouldn't be having this discussion because people would be there already.

    Every time they add content to it, that content drags people in for a brief period, then they go back to doing what they actually enjoy doing.

    People won't buy that product unless some circumstance forces them to and forcing your customers to buy a product they don't want is a bad business model.

    Once upon a time UO was it for this market. EQ slaughtered it, and is still going. WoW slaughtered it and is still going. Shadowbane died. Darkfall has not lived up to expectations from all I've heard and read.

    I recognize that no amount of pointing out the obvious will make people realize it, hence my increasing impatience with these discussions.

    -Galen's player
     
  35. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Had to? I don't think they had to. It was an expansion to draw in even more players offering more housing spots for a population base that was rapidly on the rise. It was quicker and easier to mirror the land/town code edit the code to attack other players and call it Tram than draw up whole new lands from scratch. The playerbase was on a constant rise, peaked and didn't start to decline until AoS introduced the start of the item based Uo we all know now.

    "Everytime they add content to it" That is an oxymoron in itself. There's been 1 fel exclusive content added in YEARS and it was only another crappy spawn where the underworld welcomed slasher/medusa/navery imbuing ingredients and countless SA artifacts.

    Here, let me point out the obvious for you: You know nothing of what would happen to fel if were given some exclusive content or hell, even the SAME content as Tram rulesets. For one it's not even an even playing field with the amount of sought after tram ruleset items. Secondly, who do you think you are to judge what would become of Fel? Just because you refuse to play the ruleset doesnt mean others just may enjoy it.

    I too grow impatient, with the extreme ignorance to all aspects of the same game we all play. The whole "just because i don't like it, it shouldn't exist" mentality is complete BS instead of equality for all.
     
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  36. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Failed.
     
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