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New Characters

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lefty, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    In the last week I have started playing on Great Lakes. I didn't transfer anything and more or less started out like most new players would all for the exception of my knowledge of the game.

    One thing that really struck me was that character generation as far as starting equipment has hardly changed since I started playing back in 99.

    The big difference though is there is a different armor system. Some characters back then would start off in studded armor, and for back then it wasn't to shabby. To get better armor on a new character you could goto the graveyard, bash a few skeletons and get a bone set which at the time was good except for its low durability. After a few runs you had enough to buy GM made armor off a vendor.

    However today though new characters hardly have a stitch of armor, but the major difference is that it is all junk when you start, and it is all junk more or less when you loot a low to medium monster. Surely nothing to brag to your buddies about that is for sure.

    Overall I think new character generation items should be updated a bit. Half decent armor for the skills in question. Nothing fancy, nothing handed on a silver platter but enough to get going.
     
  2. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    I think noobs should get a decent set of armor, and a nice little stockpile of regs and at least 25k gold. people who have been playing won't care about making chars for any of those reasons, AoS destroyed all gear, scripters flooded us with regs, and if you make and delete a character every 7 days for 25k gold, you're in bad shape anyways.
     
  3. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    I actually think this is a really great idea.
    Two of my buddies just returned to the game for the first time in like 5 years. One of them remembered their old account info but the other did not and wasn't able to receive the info from customer support. It's been tough getting him a good suit, but it would have been nice if he could have gotten something that would have been a little more helpful what with monster stats being harder now.
     
  4. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Not to mention it should take FOUR years for a new player to gain the skill cap that everyone else uses.
     
  5. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I think every loot should be upped from starting equipment to every single monster from medusa to a mongbat. Intensities on crafted armor needs to increase. Things like that to keep up with the times.
     
  6. T-Hunt

    T-Hunt Sage
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    Yes they do need a upgrade in armor and a little more gold to buy tyour skills.

    Heres a hint for armor...takes a little running at first..

    Goto the Hearthwood get the quest to kill dreadhorn.
    Goto Ishnar spirit shrine then to were swoop is..

    Most of the time someone is killing ether the cu sids or swoop and leaves all the stuff on there corpss...

    Theres free armor and other items to use or sell...

    I do this every time i make a new char on a different server...

    Good luck and enjoy the feeling of being new...at times..
     
  7. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    I think their intent was to quick-start new characters through the New-Haven skill gain quests. This advances characters through the early plat of training, teaches the basics of control, and gives them a reward of an armor piece, or other item. As you said, it's nothing fancy, nothing handed out - but it is decent, and blessed so it helps a younger player accumulate a little gold for better stuff before the insurance drain kicks in.
     
  8. This is a decent system, though I remember that a number of skills do not have a starter quest (and hence no reward armor piece, etc.) Perhaps the skills that lack a quest could be given one?
     
  9. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    Everyone else that paid their account for 4 years, as opposed to people that didn't.

    4 years of account payments gets a +20 cap...not just 4 years. There is a distinction for those objective folks out there, I believe.

    4 Years AND $576.00 US Dollars.

    Not just the first criteria.

    :gee:
     
  10. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Do you want or expect new players to stay around?
    The idea that because someone's a Veteran they should have special benies is only good for the Vets. But even that is only good for as long as the game stays viable.

    Some of you really have the Midas Touch, don't you?
     
  11. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    As for the new player quest items, the armor is no better than NPC bought as far as resist. Only difference is that it is blessed and may have 1 or 2 low properties on them.
     
  12. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    You bring up some good points.

    I think a neat idea to help new players would be instead of just buying plain old weapons and armor from NPC merchants that are practically worthless, a menu would come up that lets you pick an item, select a property or two (VERY VERY LOW intensity limits), and you pay a few hundred gold to have it made.

    These items could not be unraveled, so it can't be exploited for Imbuing. You could even make this a special vendor only available to characters who are less than 7 days old, since a character can be deleted after that time. Put it in the starting area, or even one in every city.

    That way, they could pick their starting equipment, right down to the property, and only pay a very small amount for it. Instead of giving the current starter gear which is neigh worthless, give them an extra grand and let them buy it themselves.

    Might be a good lead into a tutorial teaching new players about the properties, and what they do.

    Just a random though.
     
  13. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I think it would be better to just get rid of the problem that's affecting UO in so many ways.
     
  14. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    Won't hear me disagreeing with that..

    But in lieu of that highly improbable option.... Well.. Something should be done.
     
  15. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    Trebr...if you believe that a person should get exactly all the same things and bennies starting off on day one as someone who has paid subscription fees for 4, 5, 6...8...10 whatever years...

    We will have to agree to disagree.

    How do you say "Thanks" to all the people who have paid, year after year after year, through good times and bad...no matter what...

    As a business owner, would you give every new client all the same everything as your repeat customers?

    If so...why would you do that, particularly considering the alienation of current, and long time customers, as opposed to new customers?

    I am truly curious. The Vet Rewards aren't about a "Midas Touch" or "Elitism" as you would have people believe...at least it isn't for me.

    It's all about paying a price...in the most literal sense, for these rewards, and that is it.

    I paid $576 to get a +20 Skill Cap Increase. Now...a brand new player would come on board, pay $12, and get the same thing?

    I paid over $1000 to get a Polar Bear...a new player just gets it, for $12?

    There is a price for everything in life, I have found.

    Anything given too easily will quickly devalue the prize...you know that.

    So, please explain how it is a character flaw in me, that I expect you and everyone else to pay the same price as me and everyone else that has played and paid for as long as me, particularly for rewards based on account age, and subscriptions paid.

    I really need to understand your logic here. I know you are saying we should give away the farm to save UO...but if UO fails because people can't have Vet Rewards that others paid over a grand for, or a +20 Skill Cap others paid over $500 for, for $12...for just logging in, I guess I would be done anyway.

    How about we devote all the energy currently being devoted to undermining the years of payments others have made to figuring out a way to help new players really enjoy the game, so they can stick around and get the same rewards that all the Vets of equal tenure and payments enjoy, and by a method that does not cheapen the true dues paid to help keep the game alive, so new players can play it.
     
  16. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    You can justify if for the Vets, but what you can't do is justify it to the newbs.

    "Ask not what UO can do for you. Rather, ask what you can do for UO."

    And that's what I mean by "the Midas Touch". This is just one of many problems UO faces. Are you willing to watch UO continue to sink downward, despite small gains with each new release? Or do you want your game, UO, to thrive? 2D is not as big an issue as many think. There are other 2D games that have come out and done remarkable well.
    Runescape comes to mind. This visit to their site shows "There are currently 117,225 people playing!". PLAYING. More than UO has Subs. (Of course, many of those are playing for free, but that's a losing proposition in the long run.)

    UO can be the number 2 MMORPG, in my mind, behind WoW. If they'd get that "different experience" going and fix the lunacy that's holding it back.
     
  17. omgmir

    omgmir Guest

    You didn't pay $1000 for a polar bear you payed $1000 for an experience. The polar bear is a perk for sticking around with the experience so long.

    Do I care you have a polar bear and I don't? No, because it's just an ethereal mount, it functions the same as an ethereal horse the only difference is the graphic.

    Now do I care you have a 720 skill cap and I don't? Yes. Because that is not just a graphic, it's not fluff, it's not deco. It is a distinctive advantage, and that's a simple enough concept anyone can grasp.

    It's funny you see people playing the outraged card when someone suggests selling/unlocking vet rewards, but you see posts everyday in the trade forums selling accounts. They certainly have no problem with giving a brand new player a 12 year old account when it's putting 300 mil in their pocket.
     
  18. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    Have to agree with omgmir on this point. It's one thing to give the Vets access to fluff rewards.. It's another thing when you are at a distinct disadvantage and won't be able to match that for a great length of time, by design.

    If anything, I'd say give the starting (TRUE) new accounts stat caps higher than that of vets, and have it progress downward, to give them time to experience and learn the game to the point where they should be able to compete with vets on even footing.
     
  19. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I paid $576 for the +20 Skill Cap and you didn't.

    That is as simple as it can be stated.

    I paid $576, and you didn't.

    If you do pay $576, over 4 years, you will have the exact same benefit. Or, if you just cannot wait, like we all did, you can buy a 4 year old account.

    That is a concept that is so simple anyone can understand it.

    Right?
     
  20. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Didn't you get something for that money before?
     
  21. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    I'm sorry to hear you only paid $576 in order to obtain +20 skill points rather than enjoy the ability to play the game over those 48 months.

    Does your stance mean you do not believe new players should be allowed into UO? I mean, your subscription fees over the years fueled support and development. What right do those new players have to play your game?

    Personally, I believe if players (in large numbers) are cancelling their accounts because they have to wait too long to reach that bonus or if new players are not being wooed because they feel this lack of 20 skill points is such a great disadvantage the dev team needs to give this some attention. However, if more players are leaving for other reasons or not joining UO for other reasons, perhaps we/they should focus our attention there instead?
     
  22. omgmir

    omgmir Guest

    Oh the sense of entitlement. rolleyes:

    I'd rather they take away your higher stat/skill cap than give me one but that will never happen so the next best thing is give it to everyone. You can have all the ethereal polar bears, cu sidhe, and spaceships made of chocolate for all I care.

    I want a level playing field, and no sorry i'm going to wait quietly until 2014 and pray i'm not the only one still playing this game by then.
     
  23. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    You didn't pay that for the skill cap increase, you paid to play. And asking a player to wait FOUR years on getting on equal base level equivalence with the remaining playerbase is stupid to the max.

    And most vets didn't wait, we got it naturally as our accounts had already been active X number of years when it was introduced.

    And just buying the account is a lame solution and gives a whole host of issues, it would be far better for Mythic to simply sell a skill cap token in the shop for lets say 19.99 dollars.
     
  24. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    The money is paid regardless, its paid to allow you to play, you pay regardless of whether you get the perk at the end.

    And how old is your account? I bet its old enough that you never even had to wait for it, it just came to you directly because its an old account.

    In this day and age, its ludicrous to ask players to wait FOUR years to get on equal footing with everyone else.
     
  25. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    I agree with those in this thread that say vet rewards/fluff is fine, but the +20 to the skill cap after 4 years is outdated. If nothing else give a new player +5 every 3 months for the first year. Within a years time the serious player has trained up and learned the basics. It is also a reasonable waiting period to reach max potential. A casual player will most likely still be working on GMing their core skills and not take much notice. Also a year is reasonable to save up the funds for power scrolls, and depending on the skill, train up the extra +20.
     
  26. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I agree with this. Even 6 months is fine.

    Hell...just give it to them.

    That way, the game will grow by leaps and bounds.

    I am certain that all the talk is about that 20 skill points that is the barrier to REALLY being able to compete in UO. The barrier that is holding us back from REALLY seeing subs increase.

    Absolutely.

    You all have found the key to the castle...congrats.

    I will just take my sense of entitlement, and go play UO and help new players out that way.

    You all can rally for the real stuff that will help UO and save the game from what is obviously total ruin.

    Best of luck to all of us.
     
  27. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Its a barrier that helps many quit or give up on the game. Its a stupid limitation, in WoW you can reach top everything on multiple chars in 4 years, its completely stupid to require 4 years of a new player just to be able to build 80% of the templates out there.
     
  28. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Let's please not do this, AGAIN.

    For those that actually "need" it, as new players don't. They can buy a vet account and have it transfered through EA for $10. It's essentially the same thing you want.
     
  29. This kinda made me giggle as I sat here just yesterday gripping to the satalite company that we have been with for over 8 years about how they treat new customers better then existing customers. rolleyes:
     
  30. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I"ve been playing and paying the same amount of time, and i"m going to disagree with you. Yes we've played a long time, we've paid more money than others because we've played longer. That doesn't create an automatic "entitlement" though...
     
  31. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I sometimes hate posting. If we were all sitting face to face, it would be considerably easier than what we are experiencing.

    Please allow me to try again...I came across way wrong earlier, and I apologize for that.

    I know very well that what is shared multiplies. I know this to be a fact.

    I also know that there is absolutely no such thing as something for nothing. I also know this to be absolute fact.

    Since we want new players, we want to make getting into the game easier. Since the game is also a long running game, with some folks who have played since Beta (no Entitlement issues here...just a fact...non-stop and continuous paying since Beta) we want to keep those folks as well.

    So...since if a new player is granted that which previously took years of fiduciary loyalty on the part of the continuously paying Vet to acquire, hopefully it can be conceded that the longer and continuously paying players definitely have a point, in that it cheapens the "Reward" they had to wait years for.

    The new player could truly be at a disadvantage without those 20 skill points, indeed. That part I also agree with. But like Konge has said a couple times, if a person does not want to wait for the time frame to pass to be eligible for the Vet Rewards, then they can always pay the price via a vet account they purchase from someone who did pay the price, that is willing to sell the account.

    In addition, I would have no problem with new players even being offered the option to buy up the skill point increase as soon as they start, maybe. They are already offered Advanced Characters, and offering the Skill Points in lieu of the time to spend, for money, satisfies the Infinite Accountant that always have to have the books be balanced, in my opinion.

    The new player that is "Given" skill points that they don't wait for at all, or pay for at all will definitely not appreciate them the same way we do, as I stated earlier. I do not begrudge a new player any advantage. I do firmly believe however that they should definitely pay for it.

    Maybe, as well, a new set of Universal Advantages could be bestowed that applies to everyone from the start, like they have done with the +5 Stat gift from the AoS Debacle. Not sure what...but there are a lot of creative folks in these forums.

    In the mix of "No Such Thing As Something for Nothing" and "What is Shared Multiplies" there is a happy medium. God feeds all the little birds...he just doesn't throw the food into the nests.

    Preferably a way that can attract new players without cheapening the path paved for the new or returning player to play with the dollars and years of the Vets who have stayed paying EA the whole time.

    If offered as a EA Store kind of thing, it could certainly help with revenues, in conjunction with an avid marketing campaign, if the 20 skill point availability is that desirable.

    Again, in closing, I will just take the advice of Konge, and adopt the simple philosophy that a person so intent on acquiring all of the benefits of Veteran status immediately should simply purchase a Vet account of sufficient age. That is certainly sage advice in my opinion.
     
  32. omgmir

    omgmir Guest

    Feel free to link me the 48+ month accounts buyable for $10, i'll wait.
     
  33. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Agree and signed.

    All I stated was a bit better starting gear that is more up to date with the current game mechanics. What is in place is still based on what the game came out with back when I started in 99.
     
  34. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Well said Surgeries.

    I really enjoyed the bird food bit.
    & the
    if the availability is that desirable part.

    (which it is not, imho... it is none but that everlasting desire to 'get that food delivered to the nest')

    There are indeed many ways that a new player experience can be improved. But I still do not believe that handing them a silver platter will help... I feel that would only lessen their opporunity to actually experience the greatness of the game and hasten the tunnel vision that some find when they feel they have played all there is to play in UO. The more that is simply handed out, the less there is experience, enjoyment and reward.

    I really think the pickle with veteran rewards, of any sort, is that it cannot be powergamed or scripted. It is earned by time, as RoT and Eve skill gains are... and I do not think that is a bad thing.
     
  35. omgmir

    omgmir Guest

    If you can't see the massive irony in the phrase "earned by time" alone it's pointless to even attempt to argue with you.

    Time doesn't earn you ****. Effort, labor, and practice, these are what earn you things.
     
  36. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - I see what you're saying.

    But the fact is that I gave two solid examples, other than UO veteran rewards, that prove that some things are indeed earned over a period of time. Similar to an age limit to drive or more vacation days for time of employment or the occasional free food from a place that you frequently visit (keyword: frequent, as in some times over a certain span of time).
     
  37. omgmir

    omgmir Guest

    Except we're not talking about those things are we, we're talking about a base increase in stat/skill cap in a competitive environment. I came back to this game with the main goal to PvP, guess what i'm not doing right now? I'm not PvPing.

    I'm instead working on grinding gold and trying to find a cheap 48+ month account so I don't have to play with a ****ing crutch behind everyone else with a higher skill/stats cap than me.

    As i've said multiple times in this thread, I don't care if you get 200 vet rewards more than me as long as they are not things that give an advantage over other players who don't have them.
     
  38. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - When you were waiting for the time to pass until you could drive, was it not a competitive environment in that people who could drive had more advantages?
    I could carry the same logic with every example I have provided.
    Time is also a resource; a precious commodity. Use it wisely & gain experience/wisdom (is what I aspire to do more efficiently, all the time) ;)
     
  39. omgmir

    omgmir Guest

    Yes comparing a video game to real life is great logic what was I thinking arguing with you. rolleyes:

    Be right back, just gonna go twiddle my thumbs for 4 years until I can play the game on a equal playing field with everyone else.

    There's no point to arguing with you, what do you have to lose. I'm sure since you aspire to use your time wisely and gain experience wisdom you wouldn't have a problem swapping accounts with me then right? Think of all the experience and wisdom you would gain while you waited another 13 years to enjoy what you have now.

    This is why free shards have higher populations than production, and it's only getting worse. New players or returning vets like myself don't like false brick walls put in the path of our progression. Oh but you say "all video games are like that no one starts off at the high-end" and you are right. Everyone starts out getting their ass kicked by mongbats but the difference is the rate you progress and how fast you build your characters into a force to be reckoned with in other games is entirely up to how dedicated you are and how much effort and time you put into it, not how many years EA's been collecting monthly payments from you. That's a load of ****.
     
  40. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - I dig your avatar, Dude (legitimately).

    You joined Stratics 4 years ago.
    I have accounts younger than your Stratics account. I am not twiddling my thumbs because I have found better ways to spend my time.

    Who said we were arguing anyway? I thought we were just explaining different ways to approach the same subject... if analogies aren't good for you then perhaps I will be more direct with my thoughts the next time.