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New Computer advice

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Doubleplay, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    After loading the Stygian client, I have come to the conclusion that I have to get a new computer. It's time, and I'm gonna do it.

    I want to get one built this time. I need two pieces of advice.

    1. Is this overkill as a starting point (besides UO, I do a lot of drawing and 3d art and design)?
    i7-795 processor, 6Gb DDR3 memory, and GTX-285 (single) graphics card.

    2. Where do I start in trying to find a good local person to put it all together for me?

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    BTW...Both KR and the new client worked quite well for me, but I continue to have a mouse problem with both that I have not been able to overcome. I have a big lag in mouse movement, and then a big lag in character response to the slow mouse movement. That has been my problem from the start and is the only reason I have not been able to enjoy the new clients.
     
  2. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I run a PhenomII x4 810 Quad core with 4 Gig DDR3 and a GeForce 7950GT 512 Meg card and both KR and SA run very well on my system. Video card could stand to be updated, but other than that, it will be fine.

    As for getting it put together, I would do it myself personally. For you, I would at least make the attempt as the components are very straight forward (and keyed in such a way that you can't put them in backwards). Plus it will be a learning experience for when you plan on upgrading your system later. Almost everything these days is "plug and play", so having to find certain jumper and switch settings and whatnot generally is no longer an issue.

    Dunno on the mouse issue... hadn't run into that one.
     
  3. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I am in the same boat Doubleplay. I have spent a lot of $ trying to upgrade this old beast... It is time for a new rig.
     
  4. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    The system your defining will most certainly be an overkill for UO/KR/SA.

    Your not defining the other graphics in detail but I cant imagine what you would be doing that, that system wouldn't handle.

    By the way did you mean this CPU?

    Intel Core i7 975 Extreme Processor BX80601975 - 3.33GHz, LGA 1366, 6.4GT/s QPI, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core, HyperThreading, Bloomfield

    Also your not saying what the FSB of the Memory and Mother/Main Board is.

    Depending on if "Money is not a problem" vs "Money is not a problem, but I want to get my monies worth", then the FSB is something you want to watch.

    The higher this number the better everything is going to be for you. This FSB number tends to determine the amount of memory that can be transferred from point A to point B per second. Considering that from a perspective data is always being transferred across this buss, the faster the better. BUT it does require all 3 components to be on the same page with each other. It would not do you any good to get a 1333 FSB Processor and 1333 FSB DDR3 memory and a 800 FSB DDR3 Mother Board.

    The second point is, your not specifying if the Video Card is PCI-Ev2.0 or PCI-Ev1.0 AND the Mother Board PCI-E slot, is it v1.0 or 2.0. Version 2 will work with a version 1 and a version 1 will work with a version 2. What doesn't happen is getting the full bandwidth.

    PCI-E v2.0 doubles the bandwidth (aka the amount of information that can be communicated between the Video Card and the Mother Board Memory/DMA/CPU) over the v1.0 specifications. Again the higher the version number here the better and if they are not matched it wont do you any good to have version 2.0

    On the Video Card, this is often tough to get the information but if you have a choice between DDR3 and DDR2 memory on the Video Card, then choose the DDR3. As a generalization again this will provide faster on (video) board processing of the information.

    =====================

    In addition, if your mouse is on the old side, then you may want to consider getting a newer mouse with a higher resolution.
     
  5. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    Thanks for the responses. Ya know, I am an older guy and cut my teeth in the early days learning machine code, assembly, and onwards and upward to C. I know most of ya are not familiar with Basic, Fortran and such. Sigh... the early days.

    Now it seems there is a new graphics processor released every few weeks. I tried to keep track of them. Some series of them work with UO, others don't. It doesn't seem to be related too much to release date. Some early releases work, other later ones don't. I could investigate the scene and figure out what is best and why, but nowdays I would rather play golf, lol.

    My main concern is finding a person or outfit I could trust to build me a machine to suit my needs, honestly and fairly. Money is not a huge concern, but I don't want to end up the laughing stock of the neighborhood, if you know what I mean. I worry about getting the right power supply to support the processor, graphics card and such. I worry about balancing the bus speed with processor capabilities (thanks for pointing that out). I just don't want to take the time to do it all myself.

    Am I going to get burned if I go online and order something from strangers in another state? I know some of the major online retailers have had some serious problems off and on, and of course everyone says that they are way overpriced. Just sort of fishing here to see what you all think.

    Thanks again, Doubleplay
     
  6. Might I suggest www.pricewatch.com?
    You can pick out a bare boned system of your choosing, then toddle off to the website to add components of your liking, including long ranged warranty as well as building of said system and burn-in.

    Just a suggestion, as I have zero affiliation with them other than getting all my computer goodies thru them!!
     
  7. Corpsecrank

    Corpsecrank Guest

    I can't justify the price of an i7 seriously. I can build 4 loaded AMD quad core systems for the price of just the processor in an i7 system and that is disgusting.

    I prefer the new AM3 socket Phenom Black Edition to the i7 any day.

    Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition Bloomfield 3.33GHz $999.99

    VS

    AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz $215.00

    Comparable performance with a very big price difference. So if you have more money than you do brains go with an i7 because the only real difference is cost.
     
  8. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Still not that many apps that takes advantage of quads. Most apps use up to only 2 processors. Though that may change if everyone starts using quads.

    Does AMD have thermal throttling yet?
     
  9. Nok

    Nok Lore Master
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    Hi Doubleplay,

    Overkill? For 2D, KR & SA... yes. But you're doing graphics, etc... get it anyway. Remember the old hot rod & muscle car axiom... "how fast do you want to go?!";)

    For a custom rig, check your local Yellow Pages or SuperPages.com for shops in your area, make sure the techs are at least CompTIA A+ Certified.

    Are you using a Microsoft mouse with the Intellimouse drivers & utility? Double check your mouse drivers to make sure you're using the latest version. When the mouse lags, pop open Windows Task Manager, check which process is chewing up the most CPU cycles and proceed from there.

    Oooo... I just had a terrible flashback of COBOL and typing in code from the pages of Compute magazine. :bored:

    Go with a video card, rather than a video chip on the systemboard. Most video cards in the last year and current drivers for them will work just fine. KR & SA will run fine on any DX10+ certified card, 2D will running like greased lightning. Buy for the future.

    The key is finding someone good locally, that means local references and word of mouth. Try a local LAN gaming shop and asking, also look for a computer swap meet where you can see dozens of local dealers in one location.

    Building or having built a custom rig is great if done right, but hardly the most "bang for the buck" these days. There are many reputable boutique custom builders these days, but also the mainstream PC makers (Dell, HP, etc.) have boutique brands and gamer/performance editions in their mainstream lines too. Most of these are customizable while ordering so you can get the specs you want, sort of building your own while someone else does the dirty work.

    Another option is to buy a mainstream PC with the CPU and storage you want, then as soon as you receive it... tweak it with high end RAM, video and audio; kind of a semi-custom rig but still with a real warranty and support.

    These days brick & mortars (storefronts) are dropping like flies (the exception is Best Buy)... while the big online stores are doing very well, have the best prices and decent support. Check out places like Best Buy (buy online with local pick if in stock), Buy.com (specials & daily deal can surprise), Newegg (best daily prices, consumer reviews & fastest delivery), and TigerDirect (great DIY barebones and specials).

    The options are endless. Hope all that helps. :)
     
  10. You can set the temp to throttle the AMD processor or just turn it off like I did and set an alarm instead. I have mine overclocked about 10% and never had an issue because I have a huge/efficient CPU fan.

    As far as processors using on 2 core processors, ya that is correct, and I expect that to change in the next 5 years. But Vista and Win 7 does use all 4 cores. I have multiple programs open and while none take advantage of more than one core, their threads are more or less balanced across the 4 cores. All I really care about is that it is faster than a single or dual core.
     
  11. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    This... Who knows what the future has in store.

    (edit) Any idea when Windows 7 goes live?
     
  12. October 22 is the official release date. I believe you can still pre-order it for half price until July 25.
     
  13. So much for the piece of crap Vista huh? :thumbsup:


    Btw, I hate Vista.....:danceb:
     
  14. It's still better than XP... I've had one crash in Vista since I installed it last October. I would have BSOD weekly crashes in XP.

    My local power goes out about twice a week, and Vista recovers nicely on everything except my printer driver, which I've added an icon to do an automatic re-install.

    All Time MS Worst: MS Bob, MS ME and MS DOS 4.0 (would reformat your hard drive on an update!)
     
  15. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Two online ETailers come to mind. tigerdirect and egghead.

    Both are reputable companies that have been around quite a while.

    If you do not want to take the time to put it all together (and it is mostly just snapping things together, with 2 exceptions and they are not so bad if you just step back and look at how they go together), then some choices.

    A local High School may love to do the project for you.

    A Local Community College may love to do the project for you.

    A Local Computer Store (yes they still exist) certainly will do it for you.

    I would ask Best Buys Geek Squad to see if they do things like that.

    ==================

    I tend to use TigerDirect.

    You can call them and let them know what you plan on purchasing and ask them to make recommendations. I tend to do this more for the CPU Fan vs the CPU vs the Fan being able to FIT IN THE CASE vs not being blocked by obstacles on the motherboard. Second is Power Supplies vs the Video Cards Demand.

    Second if they know everything your buying then they can tell you if your missing something (that pesky stupid cpu fan for example).

    The other thing they are good at is Memory vs the motherboard vs the cpu.

    They tend to be good not specifically because of technical expertise but because they see the returns when something doesn't work together, plus they can call the various companies and ask the tech people if things will work out.

    Also TigerDirect bought out CompUSA and now has Brick and Morter Stores these stores are staffed with some fairly knowledgeable people and they carry the same stuff the Online TigerDirect does at the same price.

    Both the Online TigerDirect and the CompUSA stores have a good refund policy.

    I hear they also bought out at the very least Circuit Cities Web site and maybe more .....
     
  16. Nah, XP is much better. Hopefully the new Windows will revert some of the screwed up changes they made in Vista.
     
  17. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    If not mentioned already, newer motherboards typically have 1 IDE channel (only 2 devices) and several SATA (Serial ATA) channels - changing from 2 IDE channels (4 devices) before.

    If you have ... say, a couple hard drives and at least one optical unit (CD, DVD) then consider a converter for IDE to SATA. They run $10-$15 typically and include all the parts needed.

    They allow an IDE device to then be connected to a SATA port and they do work well.
     
  18. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    2 days ago i received my brand new semi configured Dell system and i love it. It is on the Dell website under 'desktop deals' and is a preconfigured studio xps desktop. I upgraded the video card/sound card/monitor for only another $150 and got entire system for $1100.
    6gb tri channel ddr ram,vista 64,22" 2ms sx monitor,i7-920 processor,640gig 7200 hd(no option for faster hd but it seems more then fast enough for uo imo)2 year warranty,and since i used my dell credit acct it is 1 year no interest with free shipping and i beat them up for an additional 7% discount by just being a pain in the ass and whining about tax lol.
     
  19. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    I'm neither an Intel or AMD fan, but I have to call BS on your comparison.

    The AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb is more comparable to the old Intel Core 2 Quad. It gets blown away by even the slowest Core i7 (the 920) on most benchmarks. Comparing it to the high-end Core i7 965 isn't really a comparison at all.

    Price-wise, the Core i7 920 goes for around $280.
     
  20. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    You guys and gals are great! I can't thank you enough for taking the time to respond to my request. Many fine suggestions, and perhaps I will let you know what comes of my quest.

    With appreciation, Doubleplay
     
  21. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    I wouldn't be too shy about building one yourself :)

    Back in the day some of the PC's I'd build on my own would eventually run into conflicts between parts.
    An easy solution for this is to see what the big boys are doing and copy it.
    In the past I've gone to www.alienware.com and looked at their rigs & then I just go and buy each piece and build it to save a few hundred bucks.
    Things really are plug n play these days & it won't take but an hour or two to assemble once you have all the parts.
     
  22. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *waves*

    You guys almost have me convinced to try to build my own... I want to wait until Windows 7 anyway... So I have plenty of time.
     
  23. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    The one major piece you don't get by building your own machine is the system Warranty. If you buy a system from Dell, you can get a 1, 2, or 3 year warranty included. If anything breaks in your system, Dell will dispatch a person to your door the next day who will replace the broken part for free.

    When any member of my family asks me which computer to buy, I always send them to Dell, but when I buy a system, I buy all the parts at newegg.com and Frys.com (or the Fry's store 15 minutes from my house) and assemble it myself. Why do I send them to Dell? Because if I build a system for them or instruct them how to build their own system, I become their defacto support desk for the next 5 years. If they call Dell, I never hear from them about their computer except when they thank me for my sound advice.

    So if you aren't very technical or aren't too sure, buy a customized system from Dell (or HP or other major player) that includes the service warranty. If you are technically savvy enough to pick your own parts and assemble them, then go ahead as long as you realize you are your own support desk.
     
  24. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Considering the differences in price, I would put "free" in quotes as warranties are not by any stretch free, but are pre-paid policies in which the companies are gambling that nothing goes wrong (if they win, they get free extra $$$, if they "lose", then they send out the repair guy).
     
  25. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Yup! That's what I tend to do as well for the same reason.
     
  26. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    By i7-795 do you mean the Core i7 975? I didn't think there was a 795. And if you mean the 975, DAMN that's a bit much. I'd just do a 920 and overclock it good. And that's probably what I'm going to do eventually.
     
  27. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    If you put $ into a system... Is there really a point to overclocking?
     
  28. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Me too and for the same reasons. I have gone so far as to recommend some one get a Mac, leaving me with the "I do not have a Mac so there is not much I can do to help".

    It isn't that I do not want to help, I don't particularly mind, but there is always that bad hair day when things go really wrong and ..... Well things tend to be a lot more peacefull if they look elsewhere for .... solutions.
     
  29. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Just my 2cp's, no mostly (as in 99.9%) Over Clocking is pointless and may in fact wear the components down faster, with very little to no benefits.
     
  30. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    No benefits other than a pretty big boost in speed. :/
     
  31. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I do o/c mine a little (ASUS mobo comes with a very nice o/c software), but I'm not an o/c junkie.

    The reason why o/c works is because even the same automated manufacturing process can produce chips that have minor differences. These differences can mean in a vast difference in performance.

    Say they make a batch of 3.6 gHz cores. QC will sample these and do burn tests to see if they can run stabily at 3.6 gHz. If not, the batch will be "tested down" for 3.3 gHz. If it passes QC, these will now be 3.3 gHz rated CPUs and artificially capped to run at 3.3 gHz. If it fails QC again, they will probably test down again.

    Edit: Their QC tests are based on extreme conditions, which normal consumers rarely experience.

    Besides that, if you notice, there is always a demand for the slower CPUs due to price differences. These are not old stock. The manufacturers are still producing (and selling of course) these at the same time as their fastest/newest chips.

    To cater for this demand, manufacturers also intentionally cap faster CPUs to run at lower levels. Crude example - 3.0 gHz CPUs are still in high demand and there's a huge market, if they stop selling these, they lose a big chunk of revenue. However, the manufacturing plants have already been retooled to produce 3.6 gHz chips. They are not going to un-retool the factories, or even stop their plans of retooling any older factories to enable them to make the new chips. Instead, what they do is cap these at 3.0 gHz and sell them as 3.0 gHz CPUS/price. Due to economies of scale, it's still profitable to sell the "nerfed" 3.6 gHz chips at 3.0 gHz prices.

    O/c just means you are getting your money's worth :D

    But of course, it depends on luck what chip you got. And lots of tinkering to find what's the fastest it can go and still remain stable.
     
  32. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I've built systems since the days of the 486. Sometimes 3 at a time. <shrug>

    Building a system these days is so easy even Kelmo can do it! Honest!
     
  33. Exactly how is this done, and what are the ramifications of doing it?
     
  34. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    NewEgg FTW - absolutely. Altho using existing keyboards, etc ... I've built 2 dual-core systems recently for under $900 total. Both cases are 500w or better to boot.

    I'm like you as well in sending folks off to a vendor to avoid the Help Desk syndrome. Six systems in my house is enough to support.
     
  35. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Asus mobo BIOS can o/c the CPU - built-in. Enigma lays out a good list of ramifications in doing so.

    What Harlequin seems to be saying is if one gets a 3.6ghz CPU that has had an artifical cap at say 3ghz, a mild o/c to take it to the original spec is not necessarily bad.

    I did some o/c a couple times testing stuff. Won't do it again ... little gain and unless you have good cooling, temps can get high.
     
  36. This tells me nothing.....
     
  37. The only problem with Dell (and this may have changed in the past couple of years) is that they intentionally design parts for their comps so as not to be compatible with any aftermarket items. You either go direct to Dell or you buy a new comp if something craps out on you.
     
  38. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I have an ASUS mobo, they have always been overclocking friendly :D I use a program called AI Booster that is specific to a series of ASUS boards. Let's you adjust the CPU frequency etc on the fly without needing to reboot and go into Bios.

    Traditional way to o/c without similar software is to go into bios and change the mutipliers/voltages for CPU/RAM etc there.

    Ramifications include higher temperatures, reduced lifespan (done in moderation, instead of 10 years, it now lasts maybe 9.9 years, heh. I never had a CPU blow out yet. but I only o/c slightly) and reduced stability (this is the most impt part, if it's not stable, it means you are overclocking too far for your system to handle).

    Tom's hardware has a pretty good and up to date article on overclocking here, beginner friendly as well : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclock-phenom-pentium,2366.html
     
  39. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Considering a system from Dell which includes at least a 1 year warranty is about the same as if you bought your own parts and built it yourself, I'd consider it as "free" as anything else you get with your computer.
     
  40. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    normally I might argue this in general terms, however each system I have built in the last 6 years has had at least a 1-year warranty from the maker plus RMA/defect support for 90 days post purchase from where I bought it. The cases all had 3-year warranties on them and power supplies.

    A smart parts shopper will have at least 1 year manufacturers warranty.
     
  41. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    I accept the speed increase argument :) that is the point of OCing :thumbsup:

    My statement is more along the lines of effective benefits vs risk's.

    As an example, the system I downgraded to be a ... Game Computer was done more to run Windows 7 XP Mode than any other reason. And I was kind of tired of not having a real KR/SA system and I wanted to replace this computer anyway.

    This computer is a Q6700 (Quad Core at 2.66GHZ) with an FSB fo 1066. The Video is a NVidea 9600GT 512MB DDR3 Memory. The memory is 4GB of DDR2 Dual Channel FSB 1066.

    With out OCing the System 99.9% of the time runs with 0% cpu (aggregate) utilization. If I stick 2D in Windowed mode the aggregate cpu utilization is 2%. SA/KR are less than 1%.

    If I OC (which it is now) to 2.75GHZ ... well the normal state is still 0%, 2D is still 2% and SA/KR are still less than 1%.

    *Shrug* I have long lost the sense of excitement at having the computer usage be 0% to 2%.

    I accept that a percentage of the Computer Population get all excited about the Specs NON O/C'd and O/C'd. They are beneficial to the Computer population by giving a voice for bigger and better.

    On the other hand, if I could wave my magic wand at Intel/AMD I would have them give us a 1M fold increase in L1/L2 Memory. Perhaps to the extent of using what is now RAM to be nothing more than what we now use Disk Drives For.

    I would have the Video Card Makers give us a 1M Fold increase in multi-core technology for .... lets just leave it at graphics processing, perhaps one of the easiest applications to design and code to take TRUE advantage of parallel processing.

    An true story. A friend of mine like to push everything to the Ragged Edge. He O/C'd his computer to where he believed it was unstable then backed it down to were he believed it was stable.

    The computer worked well for ... a month or so, then I get a call about how his disk drive is no longer booting and does he have a virus. I go have a look see and the pattern is more like a defective disk than anything a Virus would do, so I pulled it out and stuck it in another computer and run a check disk on it. A massive amount of errors are being reported and they are not the kind that have anything to do with a disk failure, it was plain old disk data corruption.

    I stick a dos memory test (from sysrescue) and get it running. We go out something to eat and talk come back about 4 hours later and we look at the results. Well there is an error that is occurring in one specific test. This is the nightmare scenario as it is pattern sensitive and can certainly give the indications that everything is well ..... but .....

    We just backed him down until the error no longer occurred and then I gave him a choice. Either insure the system temperature would not change, you know the pesky dust bunnies that build up that tend to change the thermal profile of a computer system, that the Air conditioning in the room wont change OR he can reduce the O/Cing by an addition 25%.

    O/C'ing and Heat are enemies. If one is going to O/C then one needs to make sure they keep the Thermal Profile as low as possible and that can be very expensive depending on just how much your O/C'ing.

    I will take license and use Kelmo's question to make this observation. If your not happy with the performance of a $150US cpu and there is a $1000US cpu that makes you happy then take the cheaper route and get the $1000US CPU. It really is cheaper in the long run.
     
  42. Not if you pay attention to what you are doing. I'm overclocked about 10%, which is max for stability on my system. The max temperature I ever hit is 41 degrees Celsius, but then I have coolers on my N/S bridges, memory and a big (quiet) fan on my CPU. Nothing is going to wear out before they get replaced 5 years from now because they are just plain old.

    Did I mention that I am running UOSA on my second monitor while I am working on PDF's and graphics for reports on my main monitor? Right now I am running 45% RAM usage, 3% to 65% on my 4 CPU usages. It's not pointless at all for me.

    If you aren't sure what you are doing with overclocking... just don't do it.
     
  43. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Same here. I never push my CPU's too far (except when I'm showing off). Coolers on CPU, memory and Chipsets.

    I don't recommend OCing to anyone unless they know exactly what they are doing. I was lucky enough to be able to practice OCing at work about 9 years ago. I burned out a couple CPU's along the way (work machines that I didn't pay for, but was allowed to experiment with).
     
  44. After reading the posts after I asked about overclocking, I think I'll leave my comp alone as far as that's concerned. I can't afford to replace any expensive parts at the moment, and sure can't afford to replace the comp and all of the upgrades I made to it. Maybe somewhere down the road, but now doesn't seem like a good time to be messing with it. I'd sure hate to go through UO withdrawals because my comp fried and I can't replace it.
     
  45. My AMD BIOS came with overclocking software, and that helped. But what you need is a good way to measure internal temperatures and stress your system to be sure that it won't fail when put under heavy stress. The best way to do this is research some of the OC forums (just like you would for UO!) and download some of the really great freeware programs that are available.

    By the way, all of the chips built in the last 5 years have temp monitors built in, and fans have speed feedback (on most fans) now. A huge bonus.
     
  46. Shamus Turlough

    Shamus Turlough Lore Master
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    Why would you want to spend all that money just to bottleneck the whole rig with an IDE > SATA adapter?
     
  47. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Keeping this as a generalization and not delving into specific scenarios.

    Most hard drives (the last time this kind of information was easily gotten) transfer data from the platter through the heads to the onboard memory (and reverse) at around 150Kb (bits) pers second OR LESS. This normally would translate to approximately 15KB per second. The UDMA 5 (IDE) (based on memory) is somewhere around 100MB (Bytes) per second or approximately 1Gb (bits) per second. This is total band width and might be being shared by 2 devices.

    So the 1Gb Band width exceeds the physical transfer rates of the disk, and can only be used when looking at the controller memory <-> computer memory transfers.

    Now if one looks at SATA 1, that establishes a single channel point to point dedicated bandwidth of 1.5Gb (bits) *shrug* not all that much greater than the UDMA 5 spec. SATA 2 establishes a single channel point to point dedicated bandwidth of 3Gb (bits) per second. Considerably faster than the UDMA 5.

    BUT, if we go back to the physical world, that band width is .... well maybe ... hum, considerable overkill, UNLESS you can keep the working data set within the size limit of the disk controllers memory (aka disk cache).

    So one can buy (if you can find them any more) an IDE drive to go to a IDE controller OR one can buy a SATA II drive and go through the IDE<->SATA adapter. While it is possible some one may see a difference in throughput, mu opinion would be that the majority of people would not. AND when they do get a SATA II connection they now have a drive to plug into it .... and then need to deal with Microsoft/Windows thinking this is a SIGNIFICANT CHANGE to the system and try to either force you to re-activate Windows OR force you to do a Re-Install.

    One can obsolete a UDMA 5 IDE drive and buy a new SATA II drive that in all reality may very well be the exact same hard disk with a bright new shiny SATA II interface chip set. OR one might spend the $15US and convert the UDMA 5 Drive to look like a SATA II drive. Again, some one may be able to see a difference but again my opinion is that most people will not see any difference.

    Now if we were talking about some high performance SSHD's then, my opinion will be differenct :)
     
  48. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Maybe because someone on a restricted or tight budget may not wish to dump a 160GB or better IDE drive if there is a way to still use it.

    Like me ... $100 for a 320GB drive (coulda done better, but needed it THEN) about 8 months ago - 3 year warranty. Perfectly good and I have a CD/RW plus a DVD-rw/CD-rw combo drive and an 80GB secondary. So instead of spending another $100 or so on disks and the time for transferring and installing all over again, I spend $30 and have all my electronics onboard.

    Make sense?
     
  49. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    right on ... no appreciable gains, however if you see my response to Shamus I present my reasoning. Not everyone wishes to spend lots of time rebuilding systems if they can get around it.

    My HDs die, SATA will be the ticket, but until then ... <shrug>
     
  50. My Radeon video card's software measures the internal temp on a continual basis. I have no idea how to measure "stress" on the system.