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New delay setting and its problems

Discussion in 'UO Enhanced Client Discussion' started by lucitus, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Explo Potion Delay is okay, but why the intigration of a general delay?

    It is very frustrating and anoying many macros are broken or completly useless. A problem with bandages and weapon switching for example.

    I can only say please remove the general delay of 1 second from the client again and intigrate one into the explo potions. I know the Devs words in the Beta forum happily telling us that the macro system is now working faster...

    UO is a game of fast reaction and a delay of 1 second is too much!
     
  2. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    the delay function is busted anyway. i tried making a timer for bombs once. id set last target by hitting my dagger and targeting them. after hitting the macro for bomb>4.0>last target the thing would go off immediately.
     
  3. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    There has always been a general delay in the Classic Client, and I don't remember ever hearing anybody complain about it... so why shouldn't the EC have the same delay?

    Having a general delay also prevents situations where somebody finds a way to get an advantage from rapid-firing with some other item in the future.

    The only bad part of the general delay is that it slows you down if you try to use an item that you don't have.
     
  4. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Some things should probably not have that delay though, not saying they should completely remove it or not, but perhaps making it a global setting with the ability for the sub setting to be more important, so if they set a specific item to not have the delay that item wont have it. Can not think of specific situations right now, but I am sure there is places it applies.
     
  5. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    the delay that bugs me is open corpses!
     
  6. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    It destroys the game feeling, i cannot switch a weapon and bandage me self for example. Or use an apple to remove curse and bandage self at the same moment, but sorry that is for me true player skill and no exploit.

    I said it a explo timer is okay, maybe also a pot timer, but the other really usefull things are broken and that makes me unhappy. Only because the CC has it, a problem of the CC clear for me and not a problem of the EC. Only because it is old it have to be good and have to be included!
     
  7. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    ohhh ok. no, I know exactly what hes saying. I've noticed the same. Before they introduced the bandage self macro the delay between actions was much longer(as in noticeably) than that of 2d. once bandage self came out it was adjusted correctly. for some reason tho after last patch I've noticed the, you must wait to preform another action, timer, to be back to its old ways.
     
  8. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The latest patch STILL has my "ultimate mining macro" quite a bit screwed up. Target Cursor Last works again, but there's an odd glitch that I can't seem to overcome. The dig portion works fine, but the smelt only does ONE ore type per cycle. Previously, it did EVERY ore type. Now it hits the first in line and then skips the rest. I tried the delay that makes the dig work, but to no avail other than a HUGE lag spike between dig cycles.

    Not game-breaking, but annoying nonetheless.
     
  9. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I decided that comparing the two clients is not the best way to go about this delay thing. For one, the Classic client delay, you can work around it, figuratively easy as well. It is an exploit but then again, in the ec you can run through items you can not in the classic client, or how about not having to actually navigate since the game does it for you?

    The delay on some parts of the game is needed, but not every part, also if there is a future issue they can just add the delay to that item, or perhaps not make the mistake of allowing an item that seemingly needs a delay to go with out one in the first place. Better bug reporting could work as well.
     
  10. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    The delay should have checks on the server in addition to the checks on the client, and the rules about what is blocking really really need to be re-synced and thoroughly tested between the clients and the server.
    The existence of bugs and exploits does not make a good argument for adding discrepancies between the two clients.

    As for the game moving around items for you makes things easier, but does not make it possible to do things that you could not do on your own with just a little training. The only limits the Classic Client should have that the EC shouldn't have are ones caused by technical limitations (use item type macros, scripts doing math for you on numbers already visible, alternate displays of information, alternative targeting methods, etc), and none of those limitations (except perhaps access to a new land and actions that can only be performed in that new land) should allow users of the EC to achieve a result that is not capable in the classic client.
    If EC lets you use 10 items in 5 seconds, but the absolute fastest you could do that with the CC is 6 seconds... that is bad.
    If EC lets you use 10 items with 1 button press, while you need 10 double-clicks in the CC, but both cannot be done faster than 6 seconds... that is fine.


    While a delay on some things is not needed... none of the delays are game-breaking. Even forcing a delay after a failure to use an item, while annoying, is not that bad. Having a delay get left out, or a bug in the code allow people to get around the delays... that could become very bad (though hopefully fixed rapidly). Some good combination of no-delay item uses gets determined by a PvP guild... suddenly nobody except that guild enjoys PvP on the shard for a few days (stuff gets missed, and often... UO is a complicated game and we get new items and changes to existing items all the time).

    Also, having delays also levels the playing field between different connection and reaction speeds. It helps makes the game more a thing of skill and timing as opposed to twitch reactions. Forcing everybody to take an extra second to think about their second action
     
  11. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Iam on the road and want to use my break and my wheel at the same time because there is a child in my way the wheel is okay, but the break say "You have to wait to perform another action" but the tree was there "You are dead!" and my screen gets grey...
     
  12. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    With delays, in UO you can still... walk/run/ride (use your feet to apply the break), swing a sword (turn the wheel), block with a shield (hold the child), and bandage a wound (eat a sandwhich) at the same time.

    And in real life... that child would distract you, making your reducing your turning and breaking abilities (add in eating a sandwhich, and you have a pretty good chance of hitting the tree anyway). In UO, you still perform all of those abilities at 100% of your skill level.
     
  13. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Same reason EC shouldn't have low-res graphics, a crappy interface, or a plethora of untended bugs; it should be enhanced. In theory.
     
  14. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    It seems my question was poorly phrased...
    There has always been a general delay in the Classic Client, and I don't remember ever hearing anybody complain about it, so why are people deciding to complain now?
    And there are no technical limitations preventing it from being changed in the Classic Client, so why shouldn't both clients have the same delay as each other?

    The delay does not need to stay in the classic client because of technical problems. If it really is a bad thing to have a delay (which I don't think it is), it should be removed from both clients, not just the enhanced client.


    The low-res graphics and crappy interface are only there because of technical limitations, not for any game-balancing. If EA could improve those in the classic client, they would have without creating a whole new client.
    The unintended bugs shouldn't be there because they're unintended, and should be removed from both clients whenever possible.
    Something existing in the Classic Client is not a good reason for it to exist in the Enhanced client, and I wasn't meaning to imply that (though I definitely can see how that could be read from how I phrased the question).
    If something exists in both clients (the exact same thing, not similar things), and is a problem in one client, it is also a problem in the other client.
    Likewise, if something exists in both clients, and is a good thing in one client, it is also a good thing in the other client.
     
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Well as I explained, some delays are good while others are not needed. Also some of the delays in the classic client just might be from technological limitations, I would not know and no one other than the developers can know that either. But I am not complaining about a delay being in the EC and not complaining about it in the CC I am saying the delay in general is not needed. Although it is impossible to actually use the items that do not need a delay in the CC compared to using them in the EC, so really the EC vs CC argument is kind of pointless as it would be physically impossible to actually do those things in the CC considering its limitations in general. But in either case I am against some of the delays in general, not just saying keep them in the CC and remove them from the EC, I am saying they are not needed at all.
     
  16. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    Just an FYI - the issue of trying to use non-existent items in a macro forcing a delay has been fixed.
     
  17. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    That is good news. I don't think I have had that problem recently, so I most likely never would have noticed haha.
     
  18. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    A lot of people with miners had this problem, I think - it's nice to have a single macro that smelts all your ore.
     
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Except that the "smelt-all" portion of the macro has been broken... Now it seems to smelt the first present ore in line and skip the rest. So if you have small stacks of say Iron, Dull Copper, and Shadow of different sizes, and you go Large Iron first, it will smelt the large iron and skip the rest until the next repeat of the macro where it will do the next one in line and so on.
     
  20. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Yes yes, I was merely saying I had not used my miner in quite a while so I did not know. :)
     
  21. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I don't believe the old delay is across the board in CC, but the new one is in EC. It is being applied in EC situations where it wouldn't apply in CC. The delay isn't merely retarding the EC back to CC standards, it's making them worse.

    My herding "pin" macro slows or stops an animal's movement by (spam) herding it onto itself. If I mash the key in CC it works fine. I use the EC macro (multiple iterations of the same action + repeat x10) I need to insert delays so it only fires one action per second.

    Also, looting acid slugs is now incredibly difficult, tried this just yesterday when taking the abyss entry quest. The corpses are too small to manually click (at 1:1 zoom and, no, I won't zoom in until they up the resolution on the graphics again), plus the blood spatter interferes with the corpse-open macro, plus the spawn is so rapid that it takes longer to try and loot one corpse than it does for yet more blood to appear on top of the corpse and interfere with the macro again.