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New Healing looting rights changes suck

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Winker, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    OMG we just did a 2 man champ, both of us killed the spawn then I went on to take the champ on while my mate healed me and did the protection. At the end for his help in healing he didn’t just get one Scroll he got 3 scrolls for healing me, and I got 3 scrolls for doing the champ.

    We lost out on 3 scrolls to the new changes and giving healers equal looting rights.

    OMG!!!! An Irish robin hood tax! Steal from the small guilds and give to the large guilds

    This change sucks big time
     
  2. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    No one cares as this was put in place to help that one player on Sonoma who heals duing EM events.

    Why this was put in place is beyond me. We had a perfectly well known system before and this is a nerf ment to hinder the small group/single player and attempt to force larger parties in a game which does not have the player base to do such.

    But at the very least I can put on a 30 mana regen suit and heal for all I am worth, not "risk" anything and I might get a drop....lol soon it will only be healers at these event and no one else.
     
  3. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Agreed. If they were bent on putting it into the game they should have just left it to EM event deals and left champs alone imo. Or found a way to exclude the Protector from the healing drops. Something. There were other ways to bring it about that would not have crushed the two man runs where one has to heal the other from getting all 12 scrolls.
     
  4. lupushor

    lupushor Guest

    Agreed. While I see that the healer has an honest job and should be rewarded for it, I feel they overdid this.
     
  5. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    To add insult to injury we didnt get a single 120 scroll! I didnt even get a 115 they were all 110 :thumbdown:

    it takes longer for just 2 people to do a champ, so its there for more work, but now less pay
     
  6. Rupert Avery

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    firstly the fact you can do a champ with 1 aggressive char is not how the champs are meant to be played

    and

    Less scrolls in the game means a better economy to me its win win :D


    I know controversial but ah well :D
     
  7. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Just like in life, we all vote our own wallet :D

    And I am voting my current wallet, unless on my tamer (which takes a little while to down the champ) it takes 2 to run it fast. I reckon I just need to break down and make a sampire and call it good enough.
     
  8. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    You know UO is in trouble when "a small guild" consists of two people lawl...all those OP large three-man guilds, with the damager, healer, and stealth-protector.

    Problem I have with healing changes is they don't encourage active protection. If the protection fight occurs in the locality of the champ fight, which is inevitable, there will never be a 12-scroll champ drop. EA is basically saying, yeah, just continue to double-client a stealther.
     
  9. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I think at the last count we were a .......... 5 man guild! but as with the larger guilds not everyone is on at one time.

    But you know UO is in trouble when 2 SL guildies go do a champ and keep it, with out getting raided!
     
  10. Zero Day

    Zero Day Guest

    The change may be a pain in the ass, but i do like it. If only they gave murder counts for healing murderers who were attacking.

    Like the guy who doesn't actually go in to the house to steal but rather sits outside being a lookout.


    The protector is not the lookout, he's the fence, so he should have some plausible deniability in the matter. Cant be healing people who are hitting the champ and pretend you had nothing to do with the fight.
     
  11. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    2003 called and wanted to tell you the game has moved on.

    There are many times when a player(s) either does not have the ablity, or the want, to work a champ with others. As the game has progressed it has become less of a need to have a huge group to do a champ but you wish to hinder these players whom have put the effort in to make char of a quality which soloing a champ is possible?

    Really if some person wants to spend a hour of thier time doing a champ this is a punishment for doing so and only further increases the belief that the dev team spends more time playing WoW type games and has a limited understanding of the dynamics of UO. Ozzy might need 5 guys to help him do a barracoon but I'm not a drugged out moron, it is a simple spawn.
     
  12. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Don't know about the rest of your guild... But you sir are one heck of a pain in the arse. And I mean that in a positive way man. Your Sig has gotten on my nerves and I have chased that damned bug a few times before I realized it was a sig :lol:


    Well done!!

    *offers apologies for the hijack*
     
  13. Rupert Avery

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    I didn't say it was wrong I just said Champs spawns were designed to be worked by a team... Sure if one person can do it then fine... but In my opinion they should be upgraded and moved along with the times along with the equipment.
     
  14. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Why do you feel the need to tell someone how to play the game? For the last 5 years at least I have not hunted with a group. I prefer to solo. According to you though I am doing it wrong... Strange I seem to be enjoying it at least. Don't take this as a personal jab. I understand that a lot of people feel the way you do. I just feel that one of the best things about UO is that you can play any way you wish.
     
  15. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Sad thing is they did this very thing not too long ago... Senility prevents me from remembering what pub it was in, but it seems like it was just prior to turning off the guard whacking of the champs.
     
  16. Rupert Avery

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    I am not telling anyone how a their game should be played.... All I am just saying a Champ spawn was designed to be done as a group and that I Personally think that it is how it should be played

    you are all of course able to play as you wish within the confounds of the game rules.
     
  17. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    You have to realize though, many shards (including the one I frequent most) have very few online. It's unfortunate, however it is reality. By making a task less rewarding for a solo or duo you are taking away from that style of play, which was borne through necessity due to server population.


    *Oh and btw I think you should give me the ingots even though I didn't meet the reserve price hehehe j/k*
     
  18. SugarSmacks

    SugarSmacks Guest

    Gee i thought the point of a soloist was to be able to kill a champ WITHOUT help. Now apparently i hear that everyone needs a healer on a template that is constantly leeching.

    A 120 Mage is 6 million, thats down from what...20? Are we really supposed to believe theres an all of a sudden powerscroll crisis when i can make a 6x 120 mage for under 20 mil?

    Honestly even if you CANT do the champs without healing, its one more person, wow go make a friend.

    Or better yet play a shard WITH people instead of trying to farm the most remote dead place you can find to avoid losing your prized possible 6 mil item!
     
  19. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    As games get older, the older content is going to be able to be done solo, it's just a simple fact. It is also not productive or conducive to the long term health of the game to go back and upgrade all the old content just because of a new publish or expansion. Yes, eventually at times go back and up date it, but not as a rule as the game progresses.

    Personally, I like the change and it makes the healer a viable template. Sure, there are a few negatives, but overall, I think it's best for the game.

    The biggest negative at the moment in my opinion is how damaging tanking is to a characters armor, how tamers/healers/archers/throwers can sit back and rarely if ever get their armor damaged, yet it's the tank (ie sampire) that gets hit with the nerf bat. At least for a sampire they will have to remake that suit (I am now in the process of remaking armor/weapons for my main sampire that I made about a year ago). For my tamer, whose armor I made about the same time, it's not even dropped 20 durability on any piece.
     
  20. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Why bother about the healing changes when raiding a champ give the same effect?
    Both cases you did the champion and someone else takes the ps. So if you like raiding you must accept the healing changes too :p
     
  21. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Good logic !
     
  22. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    I think it's about time, that other than the dammage dealer gets "rewarded"
    Rewarding the healer is a good ting, who cares about whinners crying over champs. Now they have to be 3 todo a champ..OMG OMG time to uninstall UO.
    Breaking news, if you cant kill any champ using a sampire without getting healed by the protector, _THEN_ maby your'e not doing it right.
     
  23. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Is this really due to the healing rights here? I remember one of the devs mentioning that to get the max amount of scrolls at least 4 people are needed.
     
  24. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    This +1
     
  25. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah, he said:


    But then.....:

    I dunno, ain't ran one since launch yet.
     
  26. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    This all kind of makes me sick, I mean yes their is risk vs reward but cmon you are already getting a shot at several mil items and you complain because they reduced per kill. I guess to even things out peerless should drop 6 to 12 special items like Crimsons and what not. Doom should have 3 artifacts min drop every time. too.
     
  27. Spawn DF

    Spawn DF Adventurer
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    I think champs are too easy and i hope that the following will be implemented:

    Producer's Letter from Jeff Skalski 31 Jan 2012:
    "....Other items on the table for discussion this year (insert typical disclaimer here ....... putting the challenge back into champ spawns ....."
     
  28. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    Why do you even need a healer? With a half decent dexxer you can solo any of the spawns with ease, I had baracoon with the entire spawn down to about 20 minutes solo, and rikktor about 40 w/ the spawn (He's easier and faster to kill but being on siege I have trouble on levels 2 and 3 of spawn, I can't carry a slayer wep for the ophids, on other shards this wouldnt be an issue). With a tamer it's even easier, if you're going for speed and have lots of healing capability use a rune beetle, if you're going for ease use a GD. We've done TONS of 12 scroll spawns with 2 people, where the second person is actually looking out for other players as is intended. (Also done quite a few where I just stealthed in my thief, protected myself, and went into wraith form while stealth near the altar, which is NOT what was intended :D)

    If i can do this on siege with armor that would make most of you laugh until you pass out (I didnt even use a 70's suit, just high phys and fire, and a few stat buffs per piece) I really don't see how this is a problem....It's a good change, if someone is ACTIVELY HELPING to kill something they should get part of the reward. They need to take this further now as well and do the same for pvp, if someone heals someone i'm fighting the person healing should be fair game to me. (and also within guild/faction I should be able to help a red guildmember without getting guardwhacked instantly.)
     
  29. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I think that's inevitable really. With them doing dungeon revamps like they are and champ spawns being in some of those dungeons mentioned as possible ones to revamp, they have to get around to one eventually. And if you do that, you can't just leave it to those in dungeons or limit it to just those specific spawns or folks raise cain yadda yadda. Looking forward to it myself. I had gotten used to playing relaxed man's UO where there were only a few hard challenges to get you VERY active in killing stuff. Which was one of the reasons i REALLY loved the paragon Servents at the wyvern renowned spawn.
     
  30. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Yup..
     
  31. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    I REALLY hope when they look at them that they don't just further buff the melee damage and hp, that doesnt make it harder that just makes it take longer, and basicly makes it so non-sampire/abc's/tamers can't really do anything without getting instantly killed. Have the bosses mix it up a little (but not to ridiculous insta-kill levels). Give baracoon some eval FFS, he spends 90% of his time in the fight casting fireballs on you that do 1 damage, give him the bard masteries and have him swap what he's using every once in a while, and allow him to discord the players attacking him. Let mage type creatures ACTUALLY cast all their spells again like they used to, now they just cast fireballs, poison, and if they're high enough continually flamestrike (not to mention, annoyingly, the spam healing when low health). The rat mages would actually be more fun to fight if they did something other than flamestrike and heal, maybe cast magic reflect on themselves, cross heal each other, heal their boss, etc... basicly make the fights more fun and not just more of a grind.
     
  32. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    OP already gave it away.. Champ spawns just plain aren't.


    2 people doing one? Wow that's a champ.

    Wish they would fix them.. but....

    Adding more hit points won't do it.. that just makes it take longer.

    Why don't we add more AI? Switch up between melee and magical damage.. throw in some running and hiding with the attacks? Ooops

    I can hear the flames now.
     
  33. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    just add elite ninjas then :D
     
  34. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    This is why Healing for Looting rights: needs to be active in Tram-rulesets only...
     
  35. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Yealp. ..and now your prize:

    :pint:
     
  36. DenAlton036

    DenAlton036 Guest

     
  37. PitrGri

    PitrGri Guest

    Or when you solo some harrowers and the general chat is dead for 3+ hours...
     
  38. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I wish to express my nonchalance on this topic.
     
  39. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    Wow you mean something that numerous payers said sucked before it went live sucks after it went live.

    Big surpise there.......... Once again great job Devs way to listen to the people who pay your mortgage!!!!!!
     
  40. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    yep, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. NONE.
     
  41. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Okay, MAJOR GRIPE from me on this

    :yell:


    I was just at a raid in Skara for the current story arc. I have no char loyal to Skara so figured I would go help out folks and cast heals etc. I did not get hit nor flagged by a raider, and I did not cast an offensive spell. Well, guess what happens? If you heal those that are getting their butts handed to them, you get loyalty to that city too. WTF?!?!?

    I can't even help folks in a story arc because of this "change" without a negative impact on me? :lame:

    *ends rant*

    Ok... so since I ranted, and to try and maintain the constructive critism part... I understand why the healing stuff was done, I don't like it personally but ok, whatever. But PLEASE turn the stuff OFF when it pertains to gaining loyalty on the current arc.
     
  42. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    if you really need a healer it will only take 3 players. the protector protects the 2 people doing the champ who heal each other and attack the champ.

    you only need 4 if the first protector also wants to heal and attack the champ. same goes for cases of 3, 4, 5 and up protectors.

    in all cases the last or only protector can't heal anyone attacking the champ. this, imo, was unintended but when the Devs realized it they decided to leave it in anyway for whatever reason. hence the weak explanation in the other thread that made no sense.

    the whole thing is a mess and feels broken :stretcher:

    there's 3 real problems here as I see it

    1. Devs see Felucca in terms of Red and Blue. Players see it in terms of Group vs. Group whether it is a dynamic temporary group or a long established group of friends that always plays together. this causes problems like this where Developers implement a game mechanic that makes no sense to people who actually play the game

    2. Justice and Protection are sort of silly to begin with, you don't have to kill a real live red who is actually out to murder you in order to gain so what is the purpose of it? nothing. in actuality the "Protector" will avoid PvP and hide if at all possible when the **** starts to hit the fan so the scrolls are not put at risk. it makes no sense.

    3. the system has no way of knowing if the person healing you is actually trying to help you. they might just be doing it to try to get a chance at getting a scroll without actually attacking champ. they might just be doing it to annoy you. they might be trying to help you. in any case you don't get to decide the game just decides for you which makes no sense.

    :scholar:

    they should change the way Justice is gained to something similar to the other virtues and also change Protection. if you "protect" someone it means that person is giving their consent to be healed and for you to get a chance at getting a powerscroll or item drop or looting rights anywhere in the game.

    I think a lot of players would like this because it will allow groups to consent to working together, give them a benefit for doing so and have no effect on soloists. also, Justice will apply game-wide, not just in Felucca, so players don't feel left out of an aspect of the Virtue system.

    so instead of a weird clunky broken system you'd have a very logical game mechanic that makes new templates possible. [brainstorm]a new type of player that doesn't attack anything but just heals and does logistics. they could add benefits for people who do not use aggression against monsters or other players. maybe some sort of "calming" effect that gives them special powers like using binding bracelets to bring people into areas where you can't recall or allow players to escape from a battle via their protector's powers[/brainstorm]
     
  43. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    example of Vet explaining each system to new player

    Current System

    Newb: what is protection?

    Vet: first, it only works in Felucca. it is for getting all 12 power scrolls at a champ spawn first you have to kill murderers to gain in Justice and then you can offer protection to someone at a champ spawn so when they kill the champ you get 1 scroll for each scroll they get unless you heal them, then you get less scrolls. then usually the people will roll dice to see who gets to keep the good scrolls.

    Newb: huh? I can't heal them?

    Vet: no

    Newb: what do I do?

    Vet: nothing. you hide and hope no one finds you and kills you

    Newb: uhh, ok. I'm gonna go play World of Tanks, bye.

    Proposed System

    Newb: what is protection?

    Vet: it is when you offer to help another player. if they accept you can help them with whatever you are fighting and you both get credit for the rewards even if you don't attack the monster, but you can't use it until you gain in the Justice virtue by doing XYZ roleplaying-type-thing a bunch of times.

    Newb: ah, that makes sense and is interesting, I wonder what type of character I could make to help my friends in dungeons. I look forward to gaining in Justice along with the other 7 virtues. I hope someday to be Knight in all 8 virtues
     
  44. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    Actually that made me laugh! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  45. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I disagree. Nothing in the evolution of the game makes it reasonable/logical for 1 or 2 people to chain champs.

    Hinder players effort? Seriously? You can put together an extremely effective champ solo template/suit in no time at all.
     
  46. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You play Siege?

    How do you have time to post here?

    Arent you supposed to be digging the same huge hole during day by hand so that all night long you can re-fill it with the same dirt you dug out?
    And then just repeating that every day of the year?

    I thought that was the idea behind Siege. Not better, just ridiculously difficult.
     
  47. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Goldberg... Do not be a hater. It is unbecoming.
     
  48. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Sorry kelmo.

    Didnt mean for you to have to put your shovel down for a minute :)
     
  49. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    the risk involved with solo'ing champs are the raiding groups. you can try to sneak in a solo or small group spawn but if 5 dudes show up to spoil your day that's the risk you take. I don't see any imbalance whatsoever.

    stop thinking about it from a Trammel perspective. don't forget about the PvP aspect.
     
  50. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Uhh, no offense but you have the Trammy perspective worrying about being raided lol. its not about risk. Its about the FACT that champ spawns were put into place as a large group mechanic. Time/gear should not change or diminish that. A dead shard should also not be a factor. It is painfully obvious if you are able to look at it with an unbiased perspective.