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New Rule: Help>Stuck Does not work with Cursed Items

Discussion in 'UHall' started by drinkbeerallday, Dec 7, 2008.

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  1. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    please do something right for once Dev's.

    BEFORE the new Champ Publish. Please please please.

    Also, if you log out with Cursed Item. Cursed items drop to ground.

    Simple. Do it.
     
  2. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Essentially defeating the purpose of the option... What if the char really is physically stuck? are they supposed to just give up the item to get out?


    And if someone with one of these items happens to client crash? Not really fair to them if they lose an item due to something they can't control.
     
  3. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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  4. Anne

    Anne Journeyman
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    Does this also include the cursed scrolls?

    :coco:
     
  5. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Dumb idea.

    Try harder next time Beerdrinkalot :scholar:
     
  6. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    there's only one spot you can truly be physically stuck in dungeon/t2a and everyone already knows where that is. a GM can assist in that one rare case. it is at marble spawn.
     
  7. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    thanks, reported.
     
  8. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    of course. that is why i thought of it. people were questioning why a guild should be able to remove scrolls from a dungeon without exiting properly. makes perfect sense to me.

    you must walk out with them to get them. should go for powerscrolls, +skill scrolls and replicas etc.. makes perfect sense.
     
  9. HeathBar

    HeathBar Guest

    You know, there is a teleporter on the island that takes you to Marble right?

    Anyways, if I remember correctly, it used to be that the only way to help stuck out of T2A is via a GM. They wouldn't do it if you were just holding scrolls and looking for an easy way out. I might be wrong though.
     
  10. Inspector

    Inspector Guest

    Yeah, I haven't been able to help stuck out of a dungeon area in a long time... Tried a few times in the last few months and it always says you will be teleported shortly but i can still move around and whatnot.
    Leading me to believe that its not possible anyways.
    Anyways I was just trying to illustrate some of the impacts it would have and how useless this idea was.
     
  11. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Why do people think this is a bad idea? Just because he has a history of bad ideas??

    Seriously, it is a good idea, at least for doing champ spawns in fel. Only downside to it is if you really are stuck and if you want to wait on a gm, god knows that can take an eternity.

    I myself have abused the help system after a champ spawn. I used it because I had a good scroll and didn't want to risk getting pked on my way out. Yeah, it is cheap, but it was an easy solution to avoid the risk of loosing it, which is why they are "cursed" to begin with.
     
  12. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    You know - there is an easy middle ground here.

    Have the fel champ areas do the following -

    1. If one attempts to use the "Help, stuck" option there, you get a canned message that the normal option is not available in that zone. Instead, you must go through the normal help queue.

    2. The message will also state that if the GM comes to check on you, and you are not truly having such an issue in the champ spawn area, you may have a warning, or even a 24 hour suspension action, placed on your account, from having wasted the GM's time.

    3. If you are judged to have a real issue with being stuck, at most the GM will teleport you to within 1 screen of the exit of that spawn area in a position where you are no longer stuck (or within 1 screen of the connector to the next dungeon level on the way out, for a dungeon champ spawn area) - but make you visable at the same time. They will NOT jump you out of the dungeon, or to a T2A town.
     
  13. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Now there is a good idea to fix this. :thumbsup:

    Now if only they will take note of this issue.
     
  14. PsychoKinetic

    PsychoKinetic Journeyman
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    It might not even need that much effort on the behalf of the GMs. If you are in a Fel dungeon or T2A then you dont get teleported to a city, you just get moved a short distance to a clear tile.
     
  15. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    They will probably do something about this, but still won't do any about ghost cams. Wish they just go back to the old way and you get booted from the dungeon.

    Of course the whole cursed items things could really screw some people, specially the siege ones.
     
  16. Rix/\

    Rix/\ Guest

    HELLO!!!! the items are CURSED
    look up the definition of CURSED


    aslong as someones carrying CURSED items all bad things that could happen in UO should happen aslong as they have them on them. If the cursed items are in a house BAD THINGS should happen to the house same with bank, put in your bank box and next thing you know the bank is robbed and you lose a % of your money. Make players have to do some sort of ritual to remove the curse, like skin a chicken or something.
     
  17. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Reported?:coco:
    That's good for a laugh. :loser:

    And btw, there's way more places to get 'physically stuck' than the one in Marble spawn, mmmk thnx. :loser:
     
  18. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    People think it's a bad idea, because it IS a bad idea. duh.

    And using HELP>stuck because you had a good scroll???
    That's pretty damm stupid. You can make it out of any dungeon faster AND safer by running. Learn2dungeonsmarter.:scholar:
     
  19. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    The greed that prompts ideas like this, is astounding; the only time someone shouldn't be allowed to keep an item they gain possession of is if they cheat/hack/dupe to get it, and that should be tracked and dealt with by the dev's. Punishing any other player over your own greed should not be allowed.
     
  20. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Most of the time I use stuck option is due to being dead (on foot) and I cannot find a healer in 2 to 3 minutes. Or sometimes when I get lost out in T2A.

    The biggest drawback using this option to get "items" out is when enemy do have you on tracking you are toasted. It's a unbreakable paralysis that can last more than 2 minutes. You know, sometimes you cast invis and quickly use the option. by the time invis wore out you are still stuck there. While you are waiting for the teleportation to take effect you can die and still can get looted.

    I know viper mianly play a stealther on my shard therefore chance of him getting revealed/killed are much smaller. So not everyone can take the full advantage (getting scrolls out safely) of this. This is not a good idea nor a bad idea. I mean Ive caught so many enemies on my detector from a rival guild(they are zergs) using the same method trying to get out with the scrolls they are hoarding (they lie if they get a nice scroll) and didnt give to the scroll runner. I have gotten at least 4 really good 120s out of stuck option enemies.

    Now that we talked about powerscrolls. Can we have a system that displays what PSs has been dropped? It will show a message saying what type of scroll dropped to everyone thats in the same party and also have looting rights and also of course the protectors scrolls. It will be a much better system.
     
  21. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Stupid? No, not if your hidden by means of using the hiding skill, duh! lol
    No way you would do that if you are visible unless you really are stuck.

    It can even be done fairly easy sometimes even with using it at 0 skill if your completely alone. And naturally you would probably want to find an area with little traffic.
     
  22. Darkness187

    Darkness187 Guest

    Ok simple fix to this accually see if that char is stuck or just looking for an easy way out. IF the person is accually stuck move them, IF NOT leave them there to deal with the mess they started.
     
  23. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    Just make it last as much as the logout timer (5 mins) and auto unhide anybody who uses it. You had better be VERY much alone when you do it.
     
  24. HeathBar

    HeathBar Guest

    Now this idea makes sense. Simple and Easy!
     
  25. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    So if I'm using some of my cheaply acquired cursed artifacts, I should lose them if I log out?

    Yeah, there's an idea I'm totally not behind at all.
     
  26. Divster

    Divster Guest

    This is actually a good idea, I don't agree with the drop on disconnect part, as they will still be there upon return, but the no help recall in dungeons or at least prevent the exploitation of using help recall is something that should be looked at. Too many people are judging this thread on what they see as the op's track record and throwing accusations of greed and foul play about. It is a cheap/lame way of getting to safety and needs to be addressed
     
  27. Rix/\

    Rix/\ Guest

    They are CURSED there should be some sort of bad to the meaning of CURSED


    more bad then benefit for anything labeled CURSED
     
  28. Fink

    Fink Guest

    They can be stolen/looted, can't be blessed or insured. I think that's the original intent of the "curse".

    How about, for champ areas, have the stuck option semi-randomly teleport you somewhere else on screen, preferrably away from the altar? :spider: There might be a timer penalty for it, say 30 seconds where you're frozen (you're stuck anyway, right?) and unable to invis/hide.
     
  29. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    that isn't what i was talking about.
     
  30. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    I agree, which is why when someone logs out (and times out after the full 5 minutes) any cursed items should drop to the ground.

    and help stuck should not work.
     
  31. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    not if your 50 guildmates are guarding a choke point against 50 enemies. basically logging out/help stuck is a free pass out of the dungeon without having to go through the exit where your enemies are. that is what this thread is about.
     
  32. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    why? what is my "track record" as you put it? i'm not ashamed of my "track record" at all.

    and of course there are people who want to try and dismiss any fix to this. they are probably the ones abusing it.
     
  33. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I think the change you are looking for is probably when using stuck option with cursed item on, it should teleport you to the nearest aggressor/zerg crowd.

    Well I didnt deny the advantage and somehow your reply seems to be insulted. This is a forum people have the rights to express their opinion right? :blushing:
     
  34. Divster

    Divster Guest

    Pls note I said what THEY see as your track record, as many posts have been by posters who seem to disagree with the poster as opposed to the post
     
  35. gandolfofaol

    gandolfofaol Guest

    Why can't I log there? My Char never leaves a certain dungeon, so if I have cursed items and stay there to log out you propose I lose them all? I stay there because its a great place to have some pvp fun without gate ganking.
     
  36. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    drinkbeerallday:

    Do you ever post anything constructive? All I ever see from you are complaints or what YOU feel need to be fixed. The help stuck option is there for a reason. Sure, there are people who "abuse" it to get good scrolls out, but keep in mind they can't move or do anything while they're being teleported. Maybe you should think about these things before you post.

    You know... using that brain of yours...

    Simple. Do it.
     
  37. Divster

    Divster Guest


    This thread is a perfectly valid complaint, whether he chooses to make a post about something he feels needs fixing is his prerogative, who are you to say who can or can not make a post? noone is forcing you to read his posts or to comment in an unconstructive way, fairly amusing considering your complaint. people abuse the help system to safely get out of danger zones, this is not what it was intended for and should be addressed. Anyone suffering a genuine "stuck" issue can be helped by any number of ways as suggested in some posts above.

    See beer the above post is exactly what i was referring to in my earlier post!
     
  38. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    This is NOT a good idea. Why? Script thieves...

    @ Basara...Have you ever had an item taken from you by one of these? Are you aware a script thief can know what goes in your pack BEFORE you do? Did you know that a script thief HIDDEN in a group of ten people can steal with 100% accuracy from any of those people without ever opening a single backpack? You are not providing middle ground, in fact your are inderectly asking for more ground to be taken from the legit player.

    @Drinkbeer...sorry man, but if you dont see the flaws here I can't assist. As long as CHEATING is a possibility, ADDING any rules to make life easier on thieves is just plain ********. (tell you what, let me know what days you are doing oaks and I will *schedule* my thief to visit you...all without really being there)
     
  39. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    How about boats? How many times i found my self dead on a boat 2 main issues with it 1 finding a place to get of is a pita before my body decays 2nd if i have my plank locked I cant get of in ghost form it suppose to work but it doesnt so Help stuck is my only recourse. Or theres the newer players that there young status is gone and there lost not knowing where to go matter of fact there was one here just a little while ago asking how to get out from magincia. now incorporate this to trammel whith people wearing cursed items cause they cant afford the real ones and especially newer players that were given cursed items to wear and they get all happy.
     
  40. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    *scratches head* Mmmmhh.... why do I have the impression that you are talking about pre-ML?
     
  41. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    RC: Thank you for proving me right, by your obviously biased post.

    As others have stated, two wrongs don't make a right. Something would have to be done about such scripts, if they exist - which, I've never encountered one, in my few attempts at Fel champs that actually got scrolls.

    If such things were actually common, people would be using them to steal from their own alliance members while using disguise kits, instead of the the usual Trammel style killer ally-thieves
     
  42. Divster

    Divster Guest


    I think there may be some confusion in this thread as to the aim of the suggestion. I was under the impression drinkbeerallday was complaining about people who goto champs, receive powerscrolls, then hide and use the help stuck option in order to avoid having to get the scrolls out in the way in which it was intended. As such he was suggesting (again i think) that anyone who does this should loose the cursed items they recieve. however this would probably be hard to code specifically within those areas, so others have suggested simply changing the way the help recall works to help prevent people exploiting this.

    I may have gotten it wrong and maybe he means anywhere u log out you should drop cursed items, but i can't see why this should be so, and if indeed he was referring to spawn areas then it is a very valid complaint and should be treated as such
     
  43. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    :coco: :lol:

    I find it funny you say they can see it before the player does. They don't always get the scrolls, either. You see, good players know how to move the character away after the spawn is finished, thus escaping stealth thieves.

    But I fail to see how this even relates to this topic at all. This topic is about using the Help button to get out of the dungeon. So ease explain how thieves are a problem with this whole idea.
     
  44. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    No, it is not valid. He simply states, "fix this" without making an argument for why it should be fixed. People have given plenty of responses as to why the current system is fine. If it were tweaked a bit, it could be improved, however I hardly consider this to be a necessary fix. The entire tone in which he wrote the original post is demeaning and rude. You are correct in saying that I am viewing this in lieu of his track record, as his track record consists completely of posting random requests for changes without any sort of justification. Imagine you were developer for UO and read his original post. What would you think? My complaint has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. It was more directed towards the OP and his lack of proper argumentation. Find my posts amusing if you like, no one is forcing YOU to read them.
     
  45. okay people.. who really honesty other tahn new players gets well stuck??? now everyone has an accident now and then woops or something... but the system is being abused far to much :\

    Now something that could be added to/changed about the system would be if you are at a champ spawn area, you teleport to the center of the shrine... although everyone would complain arg i be to weak when i be stuck and would die... so it teleports you there invisable. There you have it :\ that can solve all the problem with the champ spawn ideas :/
     
  46. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    How am I proving you right by giving you REASONS why it will not work? By making it more difficult for a legit char to either insure thier stuff or help stuck out, you are making it EASIER for the non-legit people out there to take advantage.

    Two wrongs dont make a right? You are asking for a change in game mechanics to allow thieves more room to breath with no reasoning beyond someones obvious personal issue with the current system. How many years now have we had *cursed* powerscrolls?

    This is a common issue BTW, and will become moreso when pub 57 hits. Unless scripting gets removed things are going to get interesting with things in fel very soon. A simple item ID is all that is needed to take something with a script...

    Out of curiosity...how am I biased? I hate thieves and I hate scripts that do things for you. Am I biased for playing in Felucca? Am I biased for knowing the scripts that are out there or is it just because you say so? lol...
     
  47. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Actually it is quite easy to get stuck atm, especially with all the issues of packet loss and intermitten connections. You forget about the uneven terrain involved with t2a champ spawns...and when combined with packetloss or a bad connection a person can easily become stuck within the terrain.

    Two times in the last week and a half I have had to use help stuck, and not because of needing to get out a scroll either....but due to actually being stuck...twice.
     
  48. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Find it funny? You do understand a script can recognize an item put into your backpack BEFORE you can right? You also know that a script can TAKE the item before you have an opportunity to insure it? Did you know that a scripter can look through your bag WHILE YOU ARE HIDDEN?

    You fail to see how this relates to the topic? Think instead of throwing out half arsed replies maybe? If you make an entire champ spawn area moot with the help stuck option...you are giving script thieves more opportunity to take your stuff. As of now all it takes is one button, and a scripter could take any item (uninsured or cursed) you may have...snooped or not.
     
  49. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    So you support using Help Stuck option for getting out of the champ spawn area to supposedly avoid thieves? You really need to explain how having an alternative idea for using Help Stuck in a Champ Spawn area helps thieves.

    As it stands, using help stuck freezes you until you are moved out. This would leave you open for attack and thieving. Making an alternative would force those who really are not stuck to run out instead. If you really are stuck, the idea would move you a screen over and be unstuck. How does this encourage script thieves?
     
  50. Divster

    Divster Guest

    Fine his presentation of the issue could have been better however it is a valid issue he is raising, the fact that u are choosing to concentrate on the poster rather than the topic can be excused in opposition to his method, but not really when you accuse someone of being unconstructive and then launch a personal attack thereby being just as rude and demeaning yourself.I never mentioned i was being forced to read your post but, in trying to be "constructive" i was merely trying to get the topic focusing on the issue at hand so apologies if you feel this derails you.

    Either way there have been plenty of responses as to why this is NOT fine, there have been other posts on this issue so i fail to see why it should not be considered a valid issue
     
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