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[News] Bags of Sending Change: Atlantic weighs in!

Discussion in 'UO Atlantic' started by imported_Ishtar, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. <center>[​IMG]</center>
    When the bags of sending came on the scene in Sosaria, many were thrilled. People could hunt, get resources and not have to keep running back and forth to the bank. In Felucca, it was a definite treat because you cannot recall out of the dungeons there. Of course with something that wonderful, there is always the select few that ruin it for the honest player, whether its dupers, scripters or anything else that tends to force change it still affects us all.

    I waited and gave the change some time to see how players felt about them. Before I go into that, I feel I should include the reasoning behind the change:

    "Why was the Bag of Sending nerfed?
    The short answer is, to curb inflation. The longer answer involves some metaphors, so bear with me a moment.

    UO's economy was designed on the "faucet/sink" model. Imagine a faucet that pours gold into the world. Now imagine various drains - "gold sinks" - that the gold flows away into. The goal of the system is for the level of gold in the world to remain approximately even, and that's done by adjusting the rate of the flow in and the size of the drains out.

    In UO, the "faucets" are the various NPCs that give players gold - monsters you can loot, escorts or quests that give gold as a reward, etc. The drains are any NPC or system that takes gold away from players - the insurance system is a big one, as are player vendor fees. (Player-to-player trades are NOT sinks - moving the gold around within the world doesn't change the overall amount of money in it.)

    The Bags of Sending were increasing the rate of flow of gold from monster loot - that faucet was pretty much cranked as wide as it would go. This has been overwhelming the drains and increasing the amount of money in the world, which lowers the actual value of gold - this is what economists mean by "inflation." Changing the Bags of Sending to make farming for gold less profitable will slow down that flow and hopefully slow down the rate of inflation - which will raise prices in the short run but lower them substantially in the long run, as the drains pull money out of the world and the actual value of gold goes up.

    Now, MMO economics are far from an exact science, and the system will no doubt require further tweaking, but this is a step in the right direction."

    -Jeremy


    Keeping that in mind and the fact that now a bag of sending uses one charger per hundred stones, the reaction of the majority so far was not very happy. Some people wonder, well why do they make these changes without asking how people would feel first or even give a warning that it is coming. Some have said its change first, explain later. I cannot speak for EA or the minds of their developers that felt this would help the in game economy. I can be the voice of those who feel that in spite of the intent to "fix" things, the change did not do anything other that hurt honest players.

    I posed this question: Now that the bag of sending changes have been implemented for a while, how do you feel about the change? I did not receive a single positive response. Here are some of the replies:

    <P align="center">
    "But as for bags of sending, you touched on something I didn't- It harms legit players more than it fixes gold farmers simply because it removes choice from where casual players can go hunt. While some might think "Well how did you survive before bags of sending? It's not any different now", it's not a fair comparison because in the old days we could recall in and out of Feluccan dungeons."
    -Norture</P align="center">


    <P align="center">
    "New changes absolutely suck for the legit player. It makes anyone who hunts in Fel (like i used to) completely mad... I spend the effort to run my tamer all the WAY down to some hunting spot 3-4 levels deep in a dungeon and when I'm full I have to run all the way back out. (use powder to get my pet out with the summoning ball). I gave up on that."
    -Walter</P align="center">


    <P align="center">
    "I would have to agree with the posts I've read so far. I'm not a 24/7 UO scripter that farms all the resources I can find. I do however like to go out and get what I need for crafting. I also farm gold but do it the legal way by actually playing the game. I used to farm in Fel dungeons to take advantage of the increase in gold and better chance for usable items. Now however without BoS (Bag of Sending) it isn't worth going to a Fel dungeon. I have to walk all the way in, farm for 5-10 minutes, walk all the way out, then recall to a bank. This greatly increases the chances of running into a red and losing all my hard earned loot. Not to mention making farming for crafting supplies just as useless.

    I understand the need to do something about this gold stream. Why not make the BoS (bags of Sending) use more charges for gold or maybe not even for gold at all. This would enable recourses to be sent to a bank in good numbers but still slow a gold stream.

    I feel the changes hurt the casual player more then the script player. A script player will just change their script and do something else. A casual player will move on to something else, or worse another game entirely.

    Lastly I don't feel that hunting creatures for gold is a bad way to make a UO living. Some players just don't get into crafting or running vendors. You shouldn't be forced into doing this just to be able to play the game you love.

    Hope this helps."
    -GFY</P align="center">


    <P align="center">
    "Even though I realize this was the attempt to get a handle on the scripters there, it has become incredibly inconvenient for those of us that were 'playing by the rules'. Training new players I would always equip them with a Bag of Sending. It was just better to not disturb a good momentum in training making a run to the bank, especially when most new players don't even understand when they become frozen, and too encumbered to move. Especially since this always seems to happen at the most inopportune time, cause you death, possibly loot, and the insurance costs on your things.

    When on hunting parties or in the course of recourse collections, it was nice to send a hundred leathers or such to the bank when you found you were suddenly overweight. Just as moving to a new house, often it was a simple matter to send bulk items you may have accumulated to the bank, and move into your new how at your leaser.

    I realize there are those out there that didn't utilize the BoS (Bag of Sending) in this manner, and many that really don't care about the changes at all. But as someone who find them very useful in training new players, I really think the changes are shameful. The new systems is actually punishing the innocent for the crimes of the scripters.

    And hey, I realize there will be a lot of people that will disagree with my thoughts here, just my own observations. "
    -Grigg of Einhorn</P align="center">


    From all the above responses, and these are just a handful, I hope in the future that changes like this may be avoided. So far, it appears the legit player was harmed more than the ones that milked the system as it were. This community has definitely spoken and obviously is not pleased with this change. I, personally am not happy with it either especially for resources as I have crafters. I also do not feel it helped the economy at all. However, my goal here was not to speak for myself, but for the community and be it's voice whether for, against or indifferent to this change.

    -Ishtar-
     
  2. I don't think I've heard anyone say anything positive about this change either. It always frustrates me when the honest players are hurt by the actions of a few. Surely the devs can come up with some sort of compromise, even if it is just letting the bags work "the old way" in Fel, where scripters can be PKed, but not Trammel. I still wouldn't like that solution, but it would make more sense to me.

    Peaceful Journeys,
    Lord Franklin
     
  3. Why not just recall to the bank and bank your gold, like we used to do in the "old days". Does everything in UO have to be so convenient these days? Have we all become that lazy?

    Mir
     
  4. Cat Crimson

    Cat Crimson Guest

    Because some of us like to hunt in places/facets that you can't recall out of ?

    I really am not arsed about the gold. Let them make that subject to weight. But I was hunting for various kinds of hides yesterday and that was a huge pain in the gluteus maximii, to the extent I nearly felt like saying sod it and dumping the gold in favour of the hides, only I can't abide waste - art imitates life.

    I work 2 jobs 6 days a week, my time to play is pretty limited, I don't want to spend the majority of that time pinging back and forth to the bank like an overloaded catapult, thanks.
     
  5. imported_EricksonYates

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
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    I dunno.

    I guess I think this really only hurts the people who hunt for fun. I really do.

    Scripters and gold farmers will still get their gold. That is how they operate.
    The reality of the fact is, there is so much gold out there already, all someone has to do is hunt high end items to make major gold.

    People will still buy gold from others using real money.

    All this has done is ruin Felucca hunting for those who hunt for fun.
     
  6. <blockquote><hr>

    Because some of us like to hunt in places/facets that you can't recall out of ?

    I really am not arsed about the gold. Let them make that subject to weight. But I was hunting for various kinds of hides yesterday and that was a huge pain in the gluteus maximii, to the extent I nearly felt like saying sod it and dumping the gold in favour of the hides, only I can't abide waste - art imitates life.

    I work 2 jobs 6 days a week, my time to play is pretty limited, I don't want to spend the majority of that time pinging back and forth to the bank like an overloaded catapult, thanks.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Can you walk out?

    I don't buy the limited time excuse...if the game is so difficult that you don't want to recall or walk...maybe you should get a third job and just not play at all? :p
     
  7. <blockquote><hr>

    I dunno.

    I guess I think this really only hurts the people who hunt for fun. I really do.

    Scripters and gold farmers will still get their gold. That is how they operate.
    The reality of the fact is, there is so much gold out there already, all someone has to do is hunt high end items to make major gold.

    People will still buy gold from others using real money.

    All this has done is ruin Felucca hunting for those who hunt for fun.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How does it ruin Felucca hunting?
     
  8. Cat Crimson

    Cat Crimson Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Can you walk out?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Continually walk from the inner depths of a dungeon or Fel T2A ? Spend more time walking back and forth than actually doing anything else ?

    <blockquote><hr>

    I don't buy the limited time excuse...if the game is so difficult that you don't want to recall or walk...

    [/ QUOTE ] Er, the game is not " difficult " but if you find it fun, enjoyable and game enhancing to constantly having to stop every 5 minutes to get to a bank, then good luck to you.

    <blockquote><hr>

    maybe you should get a third job and just not play at all? :p

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe you should just be not so damn rude and judgemental about people's real time lives when you know nothing about them ?
     
  9. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Can you walk out?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Continually walk from the inner depths of a dungeon or Fel T2A ? Spend more time walking back and forth than actually doing anything else ?

    <blockquote><hr>

    I don't buy the limited time excuse...if the game is so difficult that you don't want to recall or walk...

    [/ QUOTE ] Er, the game is not " difficult " but if you find it fun, enjoyable and game enhancing to constantly having to stop every 5 minutes to get to a bank, then good luck to you.

    <blockquote><hr>

    maybe you should get a third job and just not play at all? :p

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe you should just be not so damn rude and judgemental about people's real time lives when you know nothing about them ?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe you should notice the little emote thingy at the end...kinda says I was just kidding with you about that part...wasn't being rude.

    But that's OK, I see how some people get when they get little things taken away from them.

    Hope you feel better tomorrow sir.

    Mir
     
  10. Cat Crimson

    Cat Crimson Guest

    You got the gender wrong. Oh, and using emoticons does not preclude someone from being rude or attempting to belittle someone.

    Anyway, back to the actual issue. I have done my full share of recalling and walking in the years I've been playing this game. When I play Siege I still do walk everywhere, as there is no recall and my characters aren't powerful enough in magery to gate. When I first started playing there was no such thing as bags of sending and there was also no such thing as zero magery requirements for recall either. If you had a fighter/archer character of some kind, or even a crafter that needed to get around, you had to allot some points to magery to even be able to use a recall scroll. Mind you, if you had high enough magery to gate, you could then drag huge amounts of resources through the gate, which you can't now.

    Apart from odd moments here and there when I can log in to collect bods or maybe get a few GGS points on a character, I can usually only play for maybe 30 mins - 1hr in one go, tops, per day. Therefore I like to maximise my playing time both for usefulness and enjoyment. The bags of sending were a very helpful addition to the game and having now experienced the changes in the way they are used, it makes a big difference and a negative impact on my UO experience. I am not lazy, I still do a lot of things the long way round or manually ( for example I have always been vehemently against 3rd party progs, yes even UOA, as I felt the functions should be available within the game itself ) but I do resent having to spend way too much of my precious UO time trudging back and forth to the bank. I think that's a perfectly reasonable objection to the BoS changes. There have been many changes either good , bad or pointless during my UO life but this seems to be one that, as has already been pointed out, hits the casual player, with increased unecessary drudgery, and will not prove as effective against the scripters as EA hopes.
     
  11. <blockquote><hr>

    You got the gender wrong. Oh, and using emoticons does not preclude someone from being rude or attempting to belittle someone.

    Anyway, back to the actual issue. I have done my full share of recalling and walking in the years I've been playing this game. When I play Siege I still do walk everywhere, as there is no recall and my characters aren't powerful enough in magery to gate. When I first started playing there was no such thing as bags of sending and there was also no such thing as zero magery requirements for recall either. If you had a fighter/archer character of some kind, or even a crafter that needed to get around, you had to allot some points to magery to even be able to use a recall scroll. Mind you, if you had high enough magery to gate, you could then drag huge amounts of resources through the gate, which you can't now.

    Apart from odd moments here and there when I can log in to collect bods or maybe get a few GGS points on a character, I can usually only play for maybe 30 mins - 1hr in one go, tops, per day. Therefore I like to maximise my playing time both for usefulness and enjoyment. The bags of sending were a very helpful addition to the game and having now experienced the changes in the way they are used, it makes a big difference and a negative impact on my UO experience. I am not lazy, I still do a lot of things the long way round or manually ( for example I have always been vehemently against 3rd party progs, yes even UOA, as I felt the functions should be available within the game itself ) but I do resent having to spend way too much of my precious UO time trudging back and forth to the bank. I think that's a perfectly reasonable objection to the BoS changes. There have been many changes either good , bad or pointless during my UO life but this seems to be one that, as has already been pointed out, hits the casual player, with increased unecessary drudgery, and will not prove as effective against the scripters as EA hopes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That wasn't trying to belittle you, but think what you want. I don't really care. It won't ruin my day.

    But still, I suppose your points are valid...have a nice day missy.
    mir

    I suppose those are fair points m
     
  12. This affected me more with resources than gold. Farming leather etc. They could have written the change to just affect gold and not other items. And I mine and get wood in fel along with leather, in dungeons you can't recall out.
     
  13. Well, you choose to work in Fel. Cuz you want more "bang for your buck". There's a price to pay now. You have to walk a lot now, if you want double resources.

    Can you recall out of the same place in Tram,?
     
  14. Cat Crimson

    Cat Crimson Guest

    Actually, there are some of us that live, and work mostly, in Fel because that's how we've chosen to do it ever since we've started playing the game. Way before double resources and when there were actually more people around so it was more of a risk. Getting double resources for working/hunting in places we would have anyway was a nice bonus, but if that got taken away it wouldn't bother me. There is no direct correlation between double resources and the idea that we should " pay " for those by having to spend a disproportionately longer amount of time transporting stuff because of the BoS changes, to suggest such is completely specious.