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[NEWS] Housing in Guard Zones

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Larisa, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
    Editor Reporter Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Editor Fallen Lords

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    Housing in Guard Zones
    Draconi
    11 Sep 2008 12:14:52

    UPDATED 12:15PM: We will be leaving the houses up until Monday. However, all houses still standing on Monday will be deleted with ALL items inside them, so please remove your items and drop the house yourself!

    Hello all!

    Publish 55 shipped with a bug that dropped guard zones in towns across Britannia.

    This also dropped restrictions on placing houses, and several reports have come in of people placing new houses within towns. We have since published an update to fix the town zones.

    Our stance on whether these houses will be allowed to remain is an unequivocal "No." If you placed a house in a guard zone, you should remove it immediately before we remove it for you.

    (This will not affect grandfathered houses that have already been there for years)

    Thanks!
     
  2. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    Wow, so they're demolishing the keep that I placed, but my 18x18 that I had before this is now slightly worn and will fall and I don't think theres any way I can get it out of the IDOC state since I just placed a house... What the hell... That sucks. So now both my houses are going to fall and I have no where to put all my stuff... Gr... Can we please get this problem address and fixed?
     
  3. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    Use a 2nd account to transfer the house twice. Once to the dummy account and then back to your main account.
     
  4. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    Dummy accounts can't take houses. :( Has to be 15 days old
     
  5. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - I was thinking about that myself.

    Hmm, an 18x18 holds a few thousand items.
    Looks like a few trial accounts' bank accounts might be filled up soon.
    5x125x 3 or 4 sounds about right.
     
  6. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    its so annoying that the account needs a 15 day character, only the account age should matter
     
  7. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    That's actually a good idea, thank you. I may lose my 18x18 :( , but at least then I could save my items.

    Still, this is very annoying, I had no idea this wasn't intended. Someone told me that they opened up new house spots, so of course I placed a house that was in tram and cooler than my 18x18... Of course I didn't exactly realize that I'd in fact end up losing BOTH of my houses. :eek: Pretty frustrated.
     
  8. Doireann

    Doireann Guest

    Do you have a friend you trust in game without a house on an acct? If not, you can do an exchange of houses. You trade houses with the friend. Give him yours, then, when your seven day cool off is done, take his house. A week later, exchange houses. However, this only works if you can trust the person, obviously. But, it does work. I don't recommend it most times, but maybe it will help. Good luck.
     
  9. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    Don't have anyone like that I can trust... There's way too much stuff in my house. Trial acct seems to be the best idea if I can use one of those... Doesn't solve the problem of me losing both the house I placed and the 18x18 I have.

    If anyone else has any suggestions, please let me know. Does removing the new house I placed reset the timer?
     
  10. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    Doireann, have you ever had durian?
    Is what I've thought of, a few times, when I see your username.
    edit: I meant that in a good way! Dang :)

    Aye, it sucks that the word spread and people tried to jump-on these 'new housing spots'... but this has remained an historic no-no in house placing for quite a long time (aside from the grandfathered housing that was placed before they prevented it from happening). I do recall about 4-6 years ago they opened up housing near moongates; but then they at EA re-realized that was a 'bad-thing' for a reason..
    Good luck to all those that are innocently involved; might want to blame the informer, hehe, not EA.
     
  11. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    no, you're kinda screwed
     
  12. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    If you demolish your house, you can immediaetly place a new one again. No need to wait for another x number of days. Difference is that you won't get the confirmation gump. Once you target the ground spot where you want to place you plot, it's placed and confirmed right away.

    So you should still be able to salvage the situation.

    I suggest the following:

    1) Drop guard-zone house

    2) Move all your stuff into your bank-box, heavy stackables (like ingots/planks and other resources) has priority. Create more chars if required.

    3) If you still have stuff left over, buy 5 packies and load them up. Hopefully that's enough. 125 x 5 bank box space + 125 x 5 backpack space + 125 x 5 packies = 1875 items. But your chars probably have some stuff in their banks and backpacks already. Do what you can and dump the rest. Easily replaced stuff like decor, chairs etc - just dump into a secure and leave it in your condemned house first.

    4) Leave your packies somewhere safe if your condemned house is not in a no spawn area.

    5) Now, try the re-size command to re-size your house first. If that doesn't work, demolish the house and place it back.

    Hopefully, your condemned house is not in Luna and you don't have a score of stealthers waiting to place their plot immediately after you demolish it.

    If you do, at least now you just need to find someone that you trust enough to transfer the plot to and back. No worries about items.

    6) Once you have placed the plot, remember to grab your bag of decor stuff
     
  13. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Durians! The king of all fruits! A wondrous delicacy that's unfortunately shunned by most polite society.

    (I also meant it in a good way, not poking fun of your name :))
     
  14. Nok

    Nok Lore Master
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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    Especially, if you had a house and placed another one, and demolish both after doing so, this seems not always to circumvent the 7 days wait timer. I fell on this during the opening of Origin:
    Placed a keep there, transfered the condemned house on Drachenfels to another account, demolished the keep to place a castle and got hit by the 7 days timer on that account.
    *Salute*
    Olahorand
     
  16. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, very good point :)

    I forgot to clarify that's the reason I suggest to try the re-size command first. But then again, it may allow you to demolish but not place.
     
  17. walter_mitty

    walter_mitty Guest

    ha ha its your own fault you shouldn't be taking advantage of an exploit and you should have been banned.
     
  18. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    Are you serious? How was I supposed to know this was not intended. Housing is pretty crowded on a few shards... Someone told me they dropped guard zones and are now allowing housing, since I could place a house there, I assumed that must be the only logical explanation.
     
  19. Katlene

    Katlene Guest

    If you read stratics at all (which i presume you do, your here) you would off seen in some notes somewhere that they were opening housing in the towns if it was happening.:scholar:
    In all honestly, it was a bit silly of you to not check it out first.
    But the situation you find yourself in does suck. I hope you can sort it out.
     
  20. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    No more crap - No more sob stories!!!!!!

    2 Choices....

    Either drop the guard zone house or have it dropped for you come MONDAY.
     
  21. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Titans Hammers are pretty hard to get on a few shards ... Someone told me they made it so you could make them yourself by XXX and XXX. Since I was able to do this, I assumed that EA allowing it was the only logical explanation.

    Sounds kinda silly, no? When I heard you could place in old GZ areas ... I assumed it was a bug and an exploit to do so, and went to look through the patch notes and publish notes yet again. Seeing no word of it, that concreted my thought that it would be an exploit to do so.
     
  22. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    The only thing I see on the entire UO site about checking the herald is that you should check it once a week. That is the advice given to newbies on their New Player page.

    So I guess for some people it just isn't their week right Draconi?
     
  23. Atlantian

    Atlantian Guest

    This was all caused by one person who knew better and that person is the one that should be held responsible for this whole mess.
     
  24. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    Ehhh you placed a house in area where you knew it was gonna get deleted and now your crying about it ???

    Hell ban the exploiters , its not like there could be any doubt about if it was legal or not......
     
  25. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    That's the thing, genius. It didn't say anything about it. I didn't know it was going to be demolished. Don't you think if I had known that I probably wouldn't have placed?

    And since they locked the other thread, I'll bring it here and say that they should reset IDOC timers for everyone who placed a house. It's not that illogical to think that because they dropped guard zones that housing would open up... Yet UO Hall's policy seems to be because it doesn't affect them that it must certainly be the player's fault and not the developers for screwing it up in the first place.

    You people...
     
  26. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Glacier ... I feel bad for you that you are going to have such a hard time with re-claiming your other house ... but your assumption that because you could place it must mean they did it on purpose is amazingly naieve. It is akin to saying "I assumed because an item duped in my pack without me intending it to, the Dev's did it on purpose".

    Does it really make sense to you that they would remove a house rule that has been in effect for, oh 9 or so years I think it is, and not plaster that info all over the patch/publish notes? If your other house would not have condemned when you placed, would you have also assumed that they suddenly, without saying a word, had changed the rules of having 1 house per account? If your answer to that is yes, then you really, really need to rethink things. Would you also think that because your neighbors left their door unlocked on day on accident, that they intended for you to walk in?

    Again, sorry for your difficulties, but your brand of logic is a bit skewed.
     
  27. Haddy G

    Haddy G Journeyman
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    Drop the Keep, then go back to your 18x18 and resize it. You should be able to place the 18x18 without any problems. Remember all your crap will drop to the ground, so resize when no one is around.
     
  28. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Given the number of minor changes that have occurred in the housing system over the years, not the least of which is stuff that has affected the placement of validly placed homes from one patch/publish to another, I somehow doubt the veracity of that statement.
     
  29. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    I don't know how long you have played this game, but I can remember at least one other time where housing was opened up and there was no mention of it in patch notes.

    And to Ailish, don't accuse me of being stupid basically. You're comparing me placing a house in what I thought was intended on an online game and me breaking into someone's home? Wow. And you say my logic is skewed?

    It does suck. I'll try to drop my house and replace over it tonight but that involves moving thousands of items to other spots before I do that. I shouldn't be blamed so much for assuming that housing opened up and taking advantage of it was not intended... Now if the guard zones were still up, okay, it would've been a little bit more my fault because I wouldn't think they'd open up guard zone spots, but cmon I thought they just had removed the guard zones from there permanently so I wanted to place a bigger house.

    It's not like they don't change stuff all the time for little to no reason. For example, spellbooks haven't been disarmable since specials came out, all of a sudden they decide to change that. There's also a ton of things they change without even bothering to list them in patch notes. For example, the dread spider bumps, and many many other things.

    Thank you for trying to help me with this issue those that have, I will try to move my items tonight and hopefully place my 18x18 over where it is currently either tonight or tommorow.
     
  30. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest


    You happen to have a link to the post from EA regarding the fact that they were opening up housing in guardzones all those years ago when other people placed their houses? I read stratics and I didn't see that post. But, obviously, there was one since there are in fact houses in guardzones that are not illegal.

    Just a shot in the dark of course, but I bet you can't find that link. Maybe because they didn't post anything saying that they were opening up housing in guardzones during that period. Yet, the houses placed during that time period are still around. Hmmm.

    Besides, EA could have come here from the start and posted a nice big and bold statement that housing in guardzones after this patch would be dropped and not allowed to stay and EA would have still been in the wrong. Stratics is just a site that some people use for information. It should be in no way considered THE place to get updated and current information about the game.

    Maybe they could come up with some kind of log in screen where they could put information so that they can communicate important things like this to ALL players that play the game. But, that would probably be too difficult considering who we have to work with these days. After all, the reason given for why the log in screen hadnt been updated since June was the fact that one person lost access to the FTP server for those updates LAST WEEK. Dr Who would love that time loop I am sure.
     
  31. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    D'Amavir ... you don't seem to realize ... those grandfathered houses were placed BEFORE there were housing rules to prevent it. When they were placed, it was not a bug, it was not illegal, there had never been game mechanics or rules to stop it.

    When they decided to change the rules, they allowed those who had placed before the rules went into effect to keep their homes. That is the same they did when they decided to change the 1 house per account rule. The people who already had more than one were allowed to keep those houses with grandfathered status.
     
  32. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Oh, I do realize. That doesn't change the fact that one house can sit in the middle of a guardzone and be legal while another can sit right beside it and be illegal. With nothing visible to show the difference between the two.

    And a person with more than 1 account is completely irrelevent to the issue with people being scammed into buying houses in guardzones that you can't tell are illegal even though they might sit right beside a 'legal' house.

    As for people 'knowing' what is legal and illegal, UO.com says the following regarding housing...

    "Land outside of the cities in Britannia is free, as long as the king's right-of-way is respected. That is, houses may be built in any unoccupied location outside a city, except over roads."

    Outside of cities. Many of those houses that were recently 'illegally' place are outside of cities. How far outside of cities does UO consider 'outside of cities'? No clear answer is given for that.

    "Houses cannot be placed in a justice region, or any region that is zoned for no housing (this includes any "point of interest" areas, such as dungeons). "

    If the Justice regions are removed or shrunk, as they were with this release, then houses placed outside those regions should be legal. Now, EA has said on here that it was a bug that caused the guardzones to be removed. However, that information was given AFTER enough time for people to have placed without knowing that it was not intentional. Let's look at the times that EA gave out information regarding this situation.

    "Publish 55 to All ShardsJeremy Dalberg09 Sep 2008 17:20:45Publish 55 will be published to all shards during their next regular maintenance (for the Japanese shards, we just missed them - it'll get published there during tomorrow's maintenance.)

    To see the full Publish 55 notes, click here"

    That was when the publish was announced.

    "Beware - Town Guards AWOLJeremy Dalberg10 Sep 2008 16:26:35Currently the Town Guards are missing from their posts - while players still cannot harm one another in Trammel, this will make Felucca somewhat more... lively. This was not intended at this time and will be fixed during each shard's next regular maintenance"

    That is when they notified people that there was a problem. Seems like enough time for people to place houses to me. And seems like it is enough time for those that placed houses to sell them to someone else.

    Again, even if a player checked the herald every hour (pretty silly to imagine that a person would have to check a site every hour to see if something they might do is illegal or not but just to be on the safe side) then there was still plenty of time between the time of the publish itself and the time that EA first even mentioned that there was an issue.
     
  33. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Okay, so your real objection isn't that the old houses are legal, but that they do not say on the house sign "grandfathered" basically? I can buy that. There are some random areas of GZ that are not actually in the towns that can cause confusion to people who were not around way back when to know why they are there. That is a problem with a game/world that is 10 years old ... not alot of people remember why some things are the way they are.
     
  34. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    My objection is the fact that players that may not know every single detail about this game are left open to scamming by those that do. And that EA both supports this and encourages it. I am sure that some of the people that placed houses do 100% that what they were doing was not going to be allowed to stick. But, the players that they turned around and scammed obviously didn't.

    In my mind, its EA's responsibility to provide information about their game to its players in a way that does the most benefit in regards to helping those players avoid scamming. Yes, players take advantage of situations like this. And yes, some of the players that placed houses were trying to game the system. But, not everyone is like that. And it is those innocents that really suffer here. The players that placed can drop the houses and get their gold back. Where is the big loss for them? But those players that bought these houses can't get their money back. Big loss for them.

    I am not foolish enough to think that every player in this situation is some innocent. But, I am also not jaded enough to believe that none of them are. Especially considering both EA's response to this situation and their most recent comments regarding it.
     
  35. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Let me ask you a question.

    If a society had a set of rules and the implementation of those rules had at its heart and core this, "Ignorance of the Rules constitutes Innocence".

    Do you believe that everyone would intentionally be ignorant of the Rules, so much so, that the ones making the rules will either opt for a mind wipe or simply make no rules.

    I believe that all MMORPG's have a very visible statement, "If it seems to good to be true, then it probably is NOT true and you should verify its authenticity or not do it" (Me paraphrasing).

    There is the sentiment that, "The Blind Eye of Justice, should be tempered with the compassion of the people" (basic justification for a Jury of Peers).

    While I am prepared to be compassionate, I am not so willing to be in this case. New Players see a Big Open spot in a Guard Zone and find out right away they can not place anything there. Days, weeks, months, years later and all of a sudden, unannounced, they think this has changed?

    If one looks at houses and reads the signs, I do believe the case is they will see the Date the house was Placed. (Apply ignorance is NOT equal to Innocence here). This to me simply trumps / mitigates the argument for Grandfathered Houses creating a confusing environment.

    I am not going to get into an argument over this. I am confused by this thread given two other threads being locked down for the same reason.
     
  36. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I must be bugged then. All I see when I look at a house sign is the following:

    A House Sign
    Name: Name of House
    Owner: Name of Owner
    This house is open to the public

    Granted, I would not be the least bit surprised if I was bugged considering the quality of changes these days. Maybe you can tell me how to get my signs to show the date they were placed like yours do? Even the DEVELOPER of the game said that in order to see if a house was grandfathered you would have to be friended to the house. And, since there will never be an instance where someone could take advantage of that situation to scam any house owners, that sounds like the perfect solution to me.

    But, you obviously know more than them so I wait with baited breath for your soon to be coming help. Thanks in advance.
     
  37. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    A random thought that came to me when reading Enigma's post. Don't the very old grandfathered houses have slightly different house signs? They don't show an owner name, do they? So a person would naturally ask "what is with that?"

    Now, I could be wrong. I know there ARE alot of old houses that have signs like that, but I don't know if all are that way.

    Also, in case anyone was unsure, if/when the grandfathered houses fall, they are not replacable. Same goes with the ones that are placed flush against eachother, under tower wings, etc.
     
  38. Shoshanna

    Shoshanna Guest

    What is wrong with houses in town anyway?

    It might result in some more traffic and life within the towns! Right now they are dead, dead, dead.

    Since I started playing I always wondered why towns were merely empty collections of NPCs and except empty chests, almost completely non-interactive. Towns are like giant decorations of lifelessness.

    Besides, this is clearly the fault of the game developers and nobody else.

    Let these people keep their homes - they did nothing illegal to place them, as far as I know. They merely got lucky.

    And no, I don't even have a house.
     
  39. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    Okay, I've made many posts in this thread but I've never actually said where I placed my keep. Perhaps this will get some people to realize that it was less "obvious" that something was wrong. I placed out by the farms west of Britain. I honestly had thought they just decided to remove guard zones out there; they've done many things like this in the past with no explanation.

    I wasn't talking about me placing a keep inside Britain inside the roads or anything of that sort, if you can, I have no idea.. Didn't bother to check.

    So you can see why it was easier to think house placing in an area like that was just a change and I was definitely not intending to exploit anything. As I said, it's not like I placed my keep over Lord British's tower.

    Maybe a few more people understand now.
     
  40. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    We wouldn't want you to pass out on us :)

    The information is NOT available just by clicking on the house sign.

    BUT

    If one is friended+ to the house, then all of the relevant information is available.

    This may be information that EA/M should consider placing with the Generally Available Information (as in just placing the cursor on the house sign).

    There is obviously an opportunity for improvement on displaying relevant information.

    I am not persuaded this changes my position though. I would most certainly want to be friended to a house I was considering buying, so I could see all the additional information available.

    I think the Admin has made it perfectly clear that enough has been said on this subject. I do not choose to contest the Admins perception or will.

    Be safe and have fun.
     
  41. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Yes. Its not like you placed a house inside the walls of Luna. Because that would definitely be illegal since that is within a guardzone. And, as we know, you can't place houses inside guardzones legally.
     
  42. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest


    Just to test a theory, can you friend me to your house so I can see if its grandfathered or not? I will come to whatever shard you want and make a character if I don't have one already. Just let me know where to meet you. Thanks in advance.
     
  43. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Sure go to TC1 now and look for Jeri Durga

    PS: I am sorry at the Luna Gate in town
     
  44. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    You don't have a house on a real shard? That's silly. I do believe you might not be telling the truth. So, what shard is your real house on so you can friend me to it as the developer of the game advised?
     
  45. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    I am sorry but your request is absolutely not relevant. If you want to test some theory of yours TC1 is were it will be. This is not up for discussion.

    You have 5 minutes from this post and this conversation is over.
     
  46. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    That's ok. You proved my point very well. Good job!
     
  47. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    1 - the housing areas in Luna are not in the GZ. That is because the game would have prevented placing had there been GZ there.

    2 - the developer suggested that if you are BUYING a house, you be friended to it, not that Enigma should let you into his not-for-sale house so you could steal from him. Your average for-sale house is devoid of the sellers possesions.
     
  48. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Not true. I see houses for sale as is all the time. The fact remains, the developer expects a player who owns a house that he wishes to sell to friend any potential buyer that's asks. There may not be bugs right now involving friends being able to do things that they shouldn't be able to do to houses. But, there have been in the past and I would imagine there will be in the future. So, my request stands, will you friend me to your house so I can see if it is grandfathered? Its easy, just temporarily change all your secures to owner only while I am friend. Safe and secure. So, where ya want me to meet ya? I have a few ideas I want to test out as a friend to a house I don't know the owner of.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  49. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Glad to oblige you and any time :)

    You ASK TO TEST A THEORY.

    You did NOT ASK TO BUY a house from me, that I HAD FOR SALE.

    Consider the following, you say your a house owner.

    If so you HAD KNOWLEDGE of the screen I spoke of.

    Hello there Mr/Ms Megwatt Spotlight highlighting the Tatoo "I am in the process of scamming you"

    I choose the shard I can let you freely roam about a Castle I own with NOTHING IN IT. Scam your little heart out in. Do what ever you want and then Boot your butt to the house sign.

    You display the expected Day Care Psycho Babble response pattern.

    I have played MMORPG's sense Meridian. I have played this game since the day it went live.

    I have seen every possible scam/con YOU can imagine and I have seen many that YOU can not imagine.

    I am certainly glad to oblige you showing yourself to be a scammer/con person :) Any Time Friend.
     
  50. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    So, anyone that asks to be friended to your house is a scammer now? Hmmm. I wonder why the developer of the game would advise people to friend strangers to their houses if that was the case.

    As for how long you have been gaming, congrats!

    I don't know many scammers that come out and say "I am trying to scam you". If you get scammed by someone who does, then that says a lot more about you than it does about them. I just asked that you friend me to your house so I could see if it was grandfathered. Nothing more, nothing less.

    It makes no sense at all to have someone friended to a house on TC to see if a house on a real shard is grandfathered. Your lack of logic is incredible.