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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Petra Fyde, Aug 20, 2009.
The log is posted and can be read
The good: Two new stable slots. It's about time.
The bad: Rewards based on top attackers. There are a few templates which can become the top attacker in every situation, requiring guilds to come up with a more fair (i.e. random) method of loot distribution and giving a huge advantage to these damage-output templates. Randomizing the reward helped.
But you can Only get the 2 slots if you buy the SA expansion... The problem Exist NOW & has for about 2 yrs. SA is not even out, so it basically it does nothing to help the current problem that we have now .
looks like tamers will just have to prioritize what they want to keep and what they don't. which is what they've been doing for 2 years.
If it has existed for 2 years, surely another 3 weeks is not too long to wait?
*realizes my sarcasm detector has gone to sleep and I had best follow*
2 slots...They didn't miss the zero off the end did they? Was it worth coding in for just 2? Hehehe. I think that number needs to be more realistic, or if it's a storage problem, look at pet statues or something. I doubt 2 slots will last anyone for long...
As for prioritising what we keep... How many warriors have made extra warrior toons to hold extra swords? I don't mind making big sacrifices in my house or bank storage, whatever is necessary. But I've turfed out pets often enough, it's not a fun way to greet every expansion.
To be honest, I think this is more for the benefit of crafters who want to be able to have both kinds of beetle and a packhorse, and maybe a squirrel.
Tamers will have to be selective, and as far as I can make out up to yet, none of the SA tameables are absolutely 'have to have'.
"Sakkarah - Oh yeah stables. Now that you mention it, we are planning on offering 2 additional stable slots for all accounts with the SA upgrade. "
As it's still planning, why not do better than 2 stable slots?
Make a house add-on pet container, where pets take a number of secures proportional to the size of their data. There are already BOD books that can take several item counts, it should be possible with a pet container.
Come on you can do it!
That's what I think too.
I did not roll enough successes on my opposed-negotiating test. I asked for 5 base stable slots, getting 4 instead
Don't get me wrong, 2 slots will be great for crafters. And useful for tamers. However, tamers have had a 14 cap for years now, with several expansions worth of new pets. I could pop 2 slots on pre SA pets in an instant.
I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to want a bit more after all this time, when this could be what we're capped at for the forseeable future. Which is what concerns me. It's not about the pets in this expansion, it's looking ahead from them.
Time to get prepared and start training yet another tamer... lmao.
Thanks for hosting/posting this event.
I personally think far too much time was spent discussing the extra 2 slots and the champ spawn... because of it, nothing else was really covered. Pretty much 2 questions in an entire HoC? Ah well.
I don't like the top attacker thing either. Not because I don't have a gimped out character with stupid damage output but because it leads to greedy players. Even in friendly guilds you end up seeing people limiting the number of people being invited to peerless right now because the loot sucks with a group. It would be nice to have an auto roll feature or some loot options the party leader can adjust and members accept when using a party.
The slots had be "being looked into" since the Chicago meet up, and it was Jeremy's words with the 2 Devs there that they would look into it & get something done to help the tamers. It should not be a "prioritize" your pets on what you keep & what you toss issue. Would warriors like to prioritize their armor & weapon's to a max of 14 items? Armor & weps are a warriors fighting items, pets are the tamers. Why should tamer have to pick & choose what pet they can keep & forgo the others? Where as a warrior can have container after container of different types armor, mr, sr, str, mana & stam increase, etc, all for different types of fighting... and I won't get into the different types of Talsmans & weapons used, DCI, HCI, Sp Ch, DI, Slayers, etc, again all used for a different types of fighting situation. I see some weps doing upwards of 200 points in damage, EoO, CW & LS, no pet can do that amount of damage in 1 hit! But yet the tamer is limited to a max of 14 different pets.. Each pet like a warriors weapon has it's use in different types of situations, so why must the tamer be so limited on what he can have & can not have in his / her stable? I'm not going to say a tamer should have endless room or 50 slots, but I don't think 20 or 22 stable slots for a 120 Lore/Tame/Vet tamer & 6 for the average chara instead of 2 is asking too much.
A basic or close to, Stable of a Typical tamer
2 Dread Mare
3 Ki-Rin - Unicorn (Male & Fem chara Only so count as 1)
5 White Wrym
6 Gr Dragon
8 Rune Beetle
9 Cu Sidhe (many have 1 special colored one & a fighter)
10 Bake Kitsune
12 Fire Steed
13 Fire Steed #2 (need 2 in all reality for Pack instinct)
Below pets could be considered extra's, but many use daily in pack instinct fighting
Frenzied ostard (Again 2 it should be for pack, but 1 would do)
Hell cats (Pack here too)
Hell Hounds ditto
Special Purple Rabbits (for the Wabbit people)
Pack Horse or Llama
Blue Beetle (Even Tamers have to move items on occasion)
Now add in the Chicken & Mongbat fights the EM's are doing
Some tamers like myself have up to 2 of the top pets, Mare, Gr Drag, Rune Beetle & Cu. Different Resist stats on each one for different monster fighting capability. Normally I use either my bard or warriors, but tamers like warriors shouldn't be limited to how much "weaponry" they can have. Ty
Sorry I am not seeing what all the hassle of 2 extra stable slots is,man. Yeah Tamers have boat loads of slots but then they are still limited on what they can take out at one time, Crafters will defintely benifit from the extra two slots, as will every other non-tamer character, (agreed some will benifit more than others.).
Besides with all the complains most everyone will use the slots anyway.
Every time I read one of these, there's at least one question that I find it astounding the mods relay.
So far we have this:
Silliness has always been a part of UO. But given the limited time we have for these things, and given that the devs who are part of these things always provide some silliness on their own, why are these questions relayed?
Oddly enough, I don't think there were enough questions. At the end, it seemed like a basketball game this the devs running out the clock.
They announced the imbuing changes but no one outside of the beta boards had any info to comment on it.
There were only 30 or so people in attendance, from what I could see. Kinda scary for a game with a theoretical 100k subscriber base and an expansion on the door step.
We did it Check out the Chicken Coops You can store 2 chickens (lizard or not) in your house without taking any stable slots In your house as an add on and it is craftable.
Ooops Edit: it's 3 slots for chickens
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about how guilds would be required to come up with new ways of distributing loot that the top attackers may get.. this shouldnt be too hard really.
Most guilds already roll on the loot after the spawn anyhow. Roll on scrolls first, then roll on the artie. You could always make a rule that says, "If you have rolled on this artie before and won it, you cant roll on the same one till everyone else in guild has one" and someone keeps track of who has won what or you hope that if someone wins the same one twice, they would be willing to give it up to someone who hasnt won one.
Theres plenty ways of being fair to your guildmates. The only problem would be a guildmate who doesnt turn in an artie after the spawn. If you trust your guildies,( which I would hope most would, otherwise why be in a guild with them?) this shouldnt be a problem.
The time for the chat was not convenient. It happened at 5 pm for me, which isn't a good time in my house to be using the computer. I recognize that the developers had to give up their time too to do it, so I'm not sure what the best solution is for timing these things.
Also, I'm not sure anyone who doesn't visit U Hall regularly would have known about the chat. I don't remember seeing it publicized on the Herald or the log-in screen. And it also appeared that a number of questions were deliberately not addressed.
Oh well. Was better than nothing.
For all pets Chrissay, for all pets!
It's very nice for the new chicken lizard, but where do I put my pack for wolves? Not in the coop I hope!
Doom-style Point System: We've made a (somewhat) kinder drop system for other Equippable Arties that you can get while fighting monsters in the Stygian Abyss
This sounds similar to the Treasures of Tokuno system, which I hope it is. And yeah for more stable slots. I wish it was more but I'm grateful for two additional slots.
And you forgot squirrels & ferrets in that list
I think it would be great if they simply extended this to be able to craft an Artifact that allowed, oh lets say 5 for the Pack People pets and consume a Lockdown.
There should be no limit to the number of these you can lockdown, other than the house lockdown limit.
It would be nice if one could name the structure, perhaps the same way one can name Chests and Bags etc.
Severely disappointed in the lack of a real increase in stable slots. A larger increase would bring us up to date with the current tameables and the expansion. Doubling the current stable rate would handle this and a few future expansions.
And I would like clarification-is this a general stable slot increase that will update when the expansion hits or must you buy the expansion to get the measely 2 slots? The later is what I suspect and to try to use this as another reason to buy the expansion is well lame. Most are going to upgrade just to remain competitive with imbuing, 2 stable slots will not push someone over the edge in deciding to upgrade or not.
They said you would need to buy the expansion to get the 2 stable slots increase, which are, I agree, far from the daily reality of a tamer.
It came up as a joke in the public ultima-online channel and a certain dev begged that it be submitted ... it was their choice, not the question-taker's.
I think the devs have been locked up in the dungeon a little too long
I think an argument could be made that there's a point in "critter collecting" where a tamer-collector needs to break down and create a "stable" of backup tamers on a secondary account to hold the overflow.
(Personally, I'm in the middle of a long, long-term project to work up 3 extra backup tamers as my own method of stable-slot increase)
Not the best workaround...too may transfers and no one can own the pet anymore.
Perhaps the time has come to re-examine the limit on the number of transfers?
What purpose does it server?
I think the transfer is based on NEW owners not previous owners.
I do not think it is actually based on the transfers but on the rule of new owners increase the to tame by a percentage and I think there is a limit of 5 before the mob is no longer tamable.
I think this rule is designed to help tamers by allowing more difficult tames and to prevent unattended macroing by tame and release rinse and repeat as it was initially. One could box / boat a mob and just do that all the way to GM.
Ah, that's what I thought too ... *makes note to pass a chicken around and around between characters/accounts some day to verify*
Also, you have to wait a week for the pet to bond.
Considering that the number of pets a person owns does not affect balance anymore than the number of weapons NON tamers have does, that there is no longer a reason to limit the number of pets that are stabled. Stabled in this context does NOT mean the UO Stable System that is world wide.
The UO stable system was and is to the best of my knowledge a separate system resource. It had and to the best of my knowledge still does have an undisclosed impact on the server the more pets that are stabled.
This system broke down within, I am thinking 12 to 18 months of UO going live. There was a temporary system put in place that allowed for people to turn a pet into a statue and back. Short story is it had several exploits of the Spirit of the solution, not actual hacks etc. Apparently some time after I left something was done to the UO systems that caused the removal of that system. All the Artifacts, Graphics still remain.
The implementation of the Chicken Coop is certainly NOT a part of that system.
Hence there is now an existing system that would make it possible for Tamers to Stable their pets outside the UO Stable System. Thus NOT placing a strain on that system, yet enabling Tamers to preserve their pets as NON Tamers preserve their weapons.
Let alone the wait for the bonding process on any swapped pets. And the fact Chars slots that can be used more productively than a storage for pets. even creating a different template tamer does not really make it worth it because then you want the same pets eventually in both stables.
The million dollar question is: Why can they not increase the stable slots
to maybe 20 etc? Is is a server storage problem?
If there's a storage problem, my suggestion is appropriate : each of the stored pets takes a number of secures in proportion of the data storage it needs in comparison to the usual weapon you put in the containers of your house.
I would like to see something like a statue that holds critters with the same pack instincts and has 5 pet slots
so for example you could put 5 panthers on one statue and it takes 1 slot in your stable
or you could put 2 fire steeds on 1
the only reason I dont use pack instinct critters now is they take way to many slots
I agree something for pact instinct pets would go a long way to making it a bit easier on tamers.
Maybe they should have a sort of kennel type thing such as the chicken coup. Dog house, Kennel, anything really. Some addon like the chicken coup or maybe even make the hitching posts that you can craft or buy from the UO store into something like the Chicken coup instead of linking it to the stable system. You would have two stables then, the UO stable system or your houses stable system.
Hey thats what I would like to see.
The hitching post turned from part of the UO stable system to it's own thing. It would add the abillity to stable pets at your house in your houses stable and would have no impact on the shard wide stable system. It could even still use charges and that would be fine with me.
If I was to guess to the number of slots question, I would have to say that pet storage uses a lot more resources tham storing weapons.
A weapon has only a few properties while a pet has many different stats and functions.
Besides getting two more slots is a good thing not a bad one.
That would be a good idea also, have pets count towards bank or house
storage. Or as a friend suggested, what about rabbit hutches? This should
drive the Dev Team
I will agree with the assumption and restate it this way.
If the storage chests (aka Secures for an account) were all linked to a single stream of data for all accounts for the world, then yes that is an enormous amount of data to process.
I am assuming that is pretty much how the UO stable system is. In part this was proven when the UO Stable system maxed out. Meaning you could not stable anything. DD's reply was to extend it would to break the system. Hence within a few weeks the Statue capability came into existence.
I have no reason to believe there is any significant overhaul to this system in place so I suspect the character cap is caused by the UO Stable system capacity. I suspect the 2 per character is reflective of this issue.
That is what is nice about the Chicken Coop, I assume it is not associated with that system and is more like a secure than anything else. Meaning a finite data stream associated with a house container associated with an account container. Or is short it is not a world wide data stream.
So extending the Chicken Coop model to allow for Pack Animals Or more generally speaking make it a generalized 5 pet storage system should not present any more demand on the servers than oh say a normal Secure would. If the said artifact was treated as a Lock Down in a House then it would be classified as a 5 slot Secure certainly a lot less than the NON Tamers have per container or more exactly each slot in that artifact is worth 25 slots in a normal secure.
Just as a side issue, thinking along these lines has caused some ancient memories to stir ....
I seem to remember that UO Stable System originally was the Stable NPC, meaning you had to go to that stable to fetch your pet. Hence it was a good thing to have a Rune for every stable in UO. That was later changed to a World Wide System to convenience the Players, I make this distinction because more that Tamers use the UO Stable System.
Pets could certainly take up much more storage space than "normal" items. But I'd love to know what they do take up and be able to sacrifice some of my item storage space for pets if I wanted to. I think extending the chicken coop idea to other pets would be a great option to let tamers choose what they store just like every other class. Then it eats into our own personal storage entitlement rather thank taking up space in addition to our homes.
If it was feasible (with fair restriction) to enable transferring of pets between characters on the same account with the "coop" then that would safeguard anyone who wanted to swap a valuable pet between their tamers. Or simply tame a fire bug and pass it to their miner
*shrug* From what I remember of these type chats, there's usually a minute of putting the question out, several more minutes of them typing answers and possibly a few more comments. I don't seem to remember silly comments or questions ever taking up so much time that nothing useful was asked.
I only get angry at disruptive behaviours. Sillyness in UO is a REQUIREMENT.
I'm with you I also suggested 5 base slots... that gives you the space to have a beetle, a mount (horse or swampy) and a pair of either squirrels or the ferrets cause lets face it they are way more fun in pairs! And one other pet be it a packy or a dog or cat or something like that... for RP purposes.
And I also asked that they give tamers at 120 all a total of 20 slots... 17 for 115, 14 for 110, and 11 for GM.... at 80 8, below that they have 5 like everyone else... But basically one extra slot for each 5 points in skill GM and above.
I would love to have 5 frenzied ostards to pack hunt with - but they take up way to much space in my regular stables. A five-slot lock down container for pets sounds a really fair compromise. As stated before, a fighter can have hundreds of wep/armor combinations stored away - why not give tamers a better shot at customizing their "weapons"? Sounds like a job for "Super-Dev"!
"a lot more resources" : I'm not sure. Weapons have a lot more properties than you seem to think. Replace those properties by skills and a few other definitions and flags, and you won't have that much more data on a pet.
Anyway, even if a stored pet takes 10 secures, it's still a great step for tamers.
About using such a container to transfer a pet to another character of the same account, I do it for weapons, armors, consummables, etc. I don't really know why should pets be an exception. My crafter gives nice suits to my tamer, my tamer should be able to give a nice beetle to my crafter.
hmmmmmm that could get interesting
well, it seems that we will have more stable slots... when we shall have a player pet vendor?
maybe the pet inside the vendor shall take stable slots, but is necessary
Actually I really prefer to have 2 more stable slots on every char, than to have lets say 10 more stable slots on my tamer.
Tamers can actually have up to 14?16? stable slots. Now question yourself, how many different pets you are really using?
I have 2 Miner/Lumberjacks (every on another shard). With one fire beetle and 2 packhorses they are doomed to ride their beetles forever.
I have a techno-mages-fisher. Its stable is full with one beetle and one golem.
Most dexxers probably like to have a swampy and a blue beetle in their stables. Each has its own advantages and sometimes they might need to swap onto a ethy. Not to mention the wish for one lesser hiryu on a samurai.
On top of that, i regularly need to shift a few very old golems around on my chars, simply to problems with the stable slots.