1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

NEWS No More Taxes!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Frarc, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,770
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    Yesterday was a Kings meeting (Drachenfels) Had it been decided that the taxes on the Town stone donation are removed! :D

    [​IMG]

    More things been deceided but i keep that for my news report. ;)

    This was one of the first thing we asked to change on the donations and they listend :)

    Governors and the citizens do have some power in Sosaria! :)



    Thank you for this change! It will make it easier to gather the gold for the trade deals!
     
    Lady Khaleesi likes this.
  2. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,165
    Likes Received:
    870
    Good news! And this will be for all shards, presumably? Was anything said about when will it take effect?
     
  3. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I didn't see anything regarding this at our meeting today on Catskills.
    I was having trouble keeping up though. There were quite a few causing a ruckus :(
     
  4. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,770
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    As far i understood it should be immediately. (I placed gold on the city stone this morning to see what happends).
    I can only speak for Drachenfels but i geuss a change like that should effect all shards. :)

    Other things been announced like Ballot boxes, bulletin boards and governors meeting house to be build. These things been asked by the governors on Drachenfels so i don't know if its on other shards too for that. :)
     
  5. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    1,915

    When I checked all the town stones on all the shards on July 18th, there seemed to be a good number of towns (all without active trade deals) that still had the exact same balance in their treasury as they had a month earlier on June 17th. Since those balances weren't nice, round numbers, it made me wonder if perhaps the tax had been quietly turned off and no one had noticed. Or perhaps the tax only kicked in once a trade deal was activated.
     
  6. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,428
    Likes Received:
    766
    At our second meeting on Oceania, proposed by myself and agreed by group consensus of attending governors we asked that:

    1. The 2 million charge for the town buff be paid ONCE per election cycle when the new governor came in, OR, paid again if the buff was changed to another type after it was initially set. Once the buff was set it would remain indefinitely until the new election or until changed.

    2. Citizens of the town would be able to utilize the buff for free from the stone and it would last for 24 hours. (as is)

    3. Non-citizens of a town could also utilize the buff by paying a fee of 20,000 gps per buff to the town herald.

    4. You could obtain multiple buffs on the one character from additional towns for the same fee. Buffs do not go OVER cap so multiple buffs shouldn't be an issue, plus the more 'buffs' a character elects to buy the more money is available to the town.

    5. We also asked that a way be provided to actually 'see' how many citizens a town had. There is no way to tell, and no way to know if the town has any citizens save for the governor and those who voted for them. I know my town has 3 citizens, the governor (me), and two of my alts on my other two accounts. Wouldn't have a clue if there are any others, so what is the point of my paying out over and over again for a trade deal/buff that ONLY one of my chars will in all likelihood use? Given not a single cent has been donated it appears that my town of Vesper on Oceania is a ghost town :p


    This would have the benefit of:

    1. Saving the governor 2 mil a week, which is pretty much what is happening now. People do not donate, so to have the trade deal set is pretty much falling on the governor to pay it and maintain it. I know I paid once but am not prepared to keep paying, on small shards like ours there are just NOT enough players to make 2 mil a week viable irrespective of taxes on any donations. My town doesn't pay taxes as basically NO ONE donates anything to be taxed. Maybe on Atlantic or if the governor was part of a huge guild that all wanted the same 'buff' it may be viable but the consensus on Oceania was that as it is now NO governor is prepared to bother with it due to the weekly expense.

    2. It allows governors to work together so that the maximum choice of 'buffs' is available across a shard, and players would learn which town offers what buff. These could be changed across towns every cycle or yearly or whatever the governors decided so that a fair distribution of 'the more sort after buffs' was allocated. It could be advertised on the shard forum, what buffs are set in what town each quarter so that players knew where to go for what buff.

    3. It creates a HUGE gold sink, as non-citizens of a town who want the buff offered by that town would pay the buff 'fee'. Multiple buffs per character would generate a huge gold sink. ie if a mage class character was off to do a peerless they may wish to have an additional 5% sdi, +2 MR, +3 intel, +3 str and +1 faster casting. This would cost them 5 x 20,000 (100,000) if they were non citizens of the towns, or 80,00 if they were citizen of one of the towns. Obviously most players are not going to pay that every time they go out, but for the tougher bosses, or arc event bosses the more buffs the better. We believed players would be happy to pay for at least one buff on a char for every day fighting if it wasn't offered free by their town of citizenship.

    4. Every player could get a buff at any time if they don't have to be flipping citizens of the town because they could 'shop towns' for their buff. ie my Warrior can be citizen of town 'x' but town 'x' has a mage buff set by the governor, when my warrior wants the SSI and HCI buffs offered by towns 'y' and 'z'. This way I can support my town but still benefit from a buff and contribute to the coffers of the other towns.

    The KING present at the meeting told us he would get back to us on these requests.

    At our third meeting a few days ago, we had the 'same' new information regarding the dropping of taxes.

    We were advised that
    • The taxes on donations would now be stopped.
    • That they wanted us to donate: 5000 boards, 250 sand, 100 granite and 100 ingots so that a 'new' governors office could be built.
    • That the town Herald would now be taking donations for the above. (tested this after the meeting to find they don't take the donations, but only gold or checks as previous, so epic fail there).
    • Once donated we were to email our EM to advise that they could build the office.
    So by governor consensus we came away with the following impressions:
    • The Messenger who arrived to advise us of the above had NO information on our previous requests, either yes, no or even if they had been considered.
    • The 2 mil per week per trade deal is still active, so basically no change and no one governor on Oceania is prepared to continue with 2 mil per week.
    • Stopping taxes is a moot point as no one was donating anything to be actually taxed. Tax on 0 = 0
    • No idea why we 'want' an office, perhaps if there was some better way of obtaining funds there may be a need on a role play basis. We asked what the point of a governor's office would actually be, and the messenger couldn't tell us. We assume possibly a place to put message board to consult with our lack of citizens perhaps? There was no indication of what we could actually 'do' with an office, deco, etc ??
    • We can't donate the stuff they asked for so no one will be emailing the EM any time soon to come build the office anyways.


    All we know is that on small shards (the majority) the way the whole system is set up at the moment seems to be an EPIC fail. Our suggestions above could make the system viable but so far we have heard zip, zada, nothing even though we were told by the King that he would get back to us shortly. The changes announced this week by the Kings messenger have changed the opinions of the governors of Oceania not one iota.

    No improvement to the system can be seen at all.

    MissEcho
    Governor of Vesper, Oceania shard.
     
    #6 MissEcho, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  7. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    475
    Yep, it was the main request I made on Europa in the first meeting we had. Last weekend the king announced this publicly on our shard too.

    Now lets hope the fees go down a bit too, 2m per week is still a lot.
     
  8. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,770
    Likes Received:
    1,132

    Yes the fee is still a lot but the removal of the tax is a good step in the right direction. Atleast now i can work on some ideas to raise funds for the town.
     
  9. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    475
    Absolutely! With the tax, noone would donate money as noone would know when the trade deal needed to be refreshed (and a third of the money would be gone if it was donated early in the week).

    Now people can donate and will be sure the money can be spent. And we could host some activities for the town.
     
    AppleJax likes this.
  10. Queen Mum

    Queen Mum Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    318
  11. Endal

    Endal Journeyman

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2013
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    132
    *Suggestion*

    Instead of getting rid of the tax, why not make it so that cities impose a tax on their goods. IE: If you buy a ship in Britain for 10k (base) and there was a 10% tax imposed, then you would have to pay 11k instead. The 1k tax that was taken from the ship would then go into the cities coffers to be used as the Governor sees fit.

    Also, I'm not sure if this is already how it is, but when a player buys a title, does that money go into the coffers as well? I haven't really got any experience in the cities and their workings yet, but I'm studying qutie a bit to be sure of how things work.

    Thanks!
     
    Andrasta likes this.
  12. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    Since Endal opened the Suggestion Box... two things I'd love to see Governors able to do.

    1st - open up city shops for Citizens' vendors. That is, in the blacksmith shop the city would rent out vendors to players, instead of having to put them in a house.

    2nd - open up new city territory for player run houses and establishment. This would be tough to do, but my thought is the Governor would be able to clear and sell a limited number of house plots outside the city limits, to establish new neighborhoods. Some very neat things could be accomplished with some forethought.
     
    Endal likes this.
  13. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,770
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    The donations are still going down, so i geuss that is something that will be active on the next publish.
     
  14. morPR

    morPR PRmeister
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    24
    OH! SO he's the New Soveriegn mentioned on the UO page!! hehe.