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No, not global chat

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Trebr Drab, Dec 5, 2009.

  1. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    You'd think that an MMO would want players with their heads in the game. Instead, you're taking them out. In game, they're just running through the motions, while their heads are out of it in global chat. Bad idea.
     
  2. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    The last time I visited Global Chat was 3 years ago or something like that. Hahah.
     
  3. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Yeah!
    I mean, it's not like people have their heads out of the game in other forms of "global chat", as it is, right?
     
  4. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    No, they aren't, they are in group chats of various kinds. Or they are on message boards, possibly afk. But they are not playing the game while in the games global chat, and ignoring newbies asking questions or other players trying to talk to them for one reason or another.

    Have you played other games that have it? I'm sure most of us have. Where is ALL the conversation? Group and global (one form or another, including "trade"). Players hardly never chat in the general chat, and if you aren't in one of those chat channels the world is very quiet indeed. This is a bad way to go. UO is a "worldly" game that's gone part way to level grind through items. And that's hurt this game. The farther it goes towards non-worldly, the closer it comes to the point where players will just say "screw it, if they're all the same I'll play the full 3D, and WoW's the best of them."

    Come on people, wake the hell up. This game has been going down hill in the general trend. I don't care if the Devs want to shoot off party poppers because they had a blip upwards. The overall trend is down, and it will continue that way. Unless UO goes full into "worldly", and makes it a truly different sort of game.

    Devs, for the love of God, you know I'm right. For all that is holy, for the puppies, please listen for a change. My God, you watched your other MMOs go down. Steer to a new course. Please.
     
  5. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Don't open the chat gump. Problem solved.

    It's silly to protest something that has no affect on your gaming experience. Surely there are more pressing issues you can complain about.
     
  6. Exactly what (kind of) changes would you want to see, or suggest to the Devs?
     
  7. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Global, group, whatever.
    My point was that they're more out of the game as it is than if they were using any form of better chat system in game.
    If I'm looking at forums, or IRC, or ICQ, then I'm also not paying attention to the game.

    You want to know one of the reasons UO subscriptions are dropping?
    A lack of features common to most other games out there.
    It's elementary that a game will lose subscribers over time, circumstances within or without the game will push them away. This is offset by new subscriptions. These people will notice pretty quickly, if they've come from other games, that UO lacks a bunch of the really useful and convenient features that are present in other games, like being able to talk to people who aren't on your screen.

    I'm going to go with "You're not right, and you're making pretty shallow assumptions without really thinking the matter through in any great depth"
     
  8. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    Huh? Guys... why again are you against this? I dont get it.
    General chat channels for cities, areas, lfg etc will make the game look more active... which is excactly what you want if you want to get any new players to stay....

    Like it or not.. most new players will have tried the other games you mention first.... so when they come here to UO they expect some basic functions to work... the EC is a big step in the right direction to get and hold new players. I know many vets dont like it, but in my mind the only way to ensure this game will continue to be online for the next 10 years is by giving players what they expect as basics in an mmo.

    Iam sure ppl wont go wow bacause of an ingame chat system.... it will put new life into the game, make it look active and in the long run keep UO here... for all of us to enjoy... even the guys refusing to use the new client ;)
     
  9. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Only OP is against it.
     
  10. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    Sorry was a little quick there... if its gonne be anything like in WoW (Which I hope) he can just leave the chat channels if he dont like it and want some quiet time while mining or whatnot :)

    I dont see how this does nothing but give players what they come to expect from an online game :)
     
  11. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Bingo.
     
  12. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    No, not bingo. I explained this above. If I run somewhere and see someone and want to talk to them, maybe ask a question or make an offer, they will most likely be in global chat and not see my questions. Been there in other games. It's the same everywhere that has these chat channels that take players out of the game's immediate awareness.

    So no, ignoring it doesn't solve my problem, and it doesn't solve this problem that ALL MMO's are suffering from.

    Kiminality, UO's losing subs because they keep trying to make it more like other games, and less UO. Every new change brings a short burst of new hope and hype, followed by a long sustained pattern of losing ground. And those other games out there, they aren't so successful. Other than WoW, none of them are doing all that well. Some have outright failed.

    Take a look around. Players are bored with the current state of MMOs. They say so everywhere. What they don't general know is what exactly it is they want, because most of them have not experienced anything else, and they just can't picture anything else. But with every new release, WoW tries to combat it with their own. Yet players leave for those new games, WoW slows way down for a while, then the players see that the new game is just more of the same and go back to WoW. The better version, but also because they are established there. They don't have to go through the same boring level grinds again with a new system. Players have been game hopping for several years. It's always the same story, they try it and just go back to WoW, other than the few.

    AtlanteanAngel, you asked what I would suggest. I'd suggest what UO was originally designed for. A truly worldly game.
    In recent posts there was one about the areas in Despise that players can't get to. The talk was about the mysteries of UO, such as this. Look at the post count and the view numbers. Over 700 views on a topic with only 10 posts. That's a very high view rate. Players are interested in this kind of "worldly" mysteries. This is one of the places UO needs to go, in-game mysteries involved in exploring the world. There are other things too. But I don't want to spend all night on this. Suffice it to say, make it a world and not a game. Stop making everything easy and convenient, that only hurts the game play due to taking game activity out of the game.

    Many of you want things easier, more convenient. But think. With each easier aspect you lose game activity. And as you lose that, you lose interest inside the game. You can almost sleep walk through it now, if you're speced out.
     
  13. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    This is such a non-issue.

    Okay, take World of Warcraft... Your text appears above your head if you "say" something. It's the same as UO goes, and as long as they keep the EC and 2D clients defaulting to being "on" for overhead speech, everything else is a non-issue.

    I play WoW too... I hardly pay any attention at all to zone chatter, but I do keep an eye open for things of interest. There is no "global" channel in WoW that covers the entire game, which is a good thing. As I recall, it's the same way in EQ... there's zone chat, no global.

    So basically you've got your /say (which appears over your head), /party (which in games with overhead chat also appears over your head in your party color, which would be nice), /guild, and /zone... the "global" channels for WoW appear as the City/Trade channel which is only available if you're actually in a major city... big deal. The stuff that appears overhead also appears in your chat log.

    As long as the overhead text doesn't go anywhere, nothing is ruined in the game.

    And frankly, in WoW, when I see someone speaking (ie: overhead) to me, I respond, whether or not I'm also talking in /guild or not.

    Additional means of communication are not a bad thing.
     
  14. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Yeah, and if you run up to me when I'm talking in IRC, or ICQ, or browsing a forum, guess what's not going to happen.
    I'll give you a clue - it's very similar to me noticing your question.

    There's a whole ton of assumptions you're making, high among them being that the person you've run up to isn't just plain ignoring you.

    Players making false assessments, and parading them around as fact?
    That is a problem you're currently having here...

    No.
    Wait...
    Nope, I'm still going with "No".
    Sure, that's a factor. A factor that's barely statistically significant.
    UO's subscriptions are dropping naturally, as all subscriptions do. Even WoW's drop at a similar relative rate. What UO's not doing is retaining enough subscribers from the churn, to improve subscription numbers.
    That's, in large part, because UO isn't terribly accessible to the general MMO player. This is... *drumroll* because the UI is incredibly non-standard.

    Yes, players have been "game hopping"... They call it "churn", and it's been going on since there was competition in MMOs.
    It's these people that need to be retained when they come here, by not driving them away with seemingly arbitrary systems.

    Sometimes, I try out f2p MMOs. Trying out new things, broadening my horizons and all that. Sticking around the same games and mechanics all the time is terribly stifling.
    At times, I might find one that I quite enjoy, but the translation from its original language is seriously lacking, to the point that often parts of it make little sense.
    Do I soldier on, and trial-and-error my way through the game, in the hopes that beyond the language barrier is a brilliant game?
    Not likely.

    So, hypothetically, I'm a WoW-esque MMO player. I've player WoW, WAR, LotRO and others I could spend all morning listing.
    I come to UO, and a bunch of stuff acts completely different to how I'm used to. And on top of that, I can't talk to anyone that's not on my screen, so the only way to talk to someone is to find them, which in the spirit of your "UO is losing players" thing, would be harder than ever.
     
  15. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Yeah well, on shards Like Europa, Drachenfels and prolly smaller Asian and US shards too it's hard to find people.

    Global chat gives people even a chance to find someone to play with if they are not in a guild...
     
  16. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ugh, you know if you try to talk to someone who is in the global chat system I'm sure they have the capabilities to respond outside of the global chat system as well. It's a simple matter of click here or click there. Or perhaps when it is altered maybe the same way you go between guild chat and normal chat.

    Non-global chat system, above head. Global chat system, NOT above head. Do you know the difference now?

    Trust me, this is NOT an issue.
     
  17. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    Thank you for making my points clear.. would have taken me all day to write this up in English :)

    UO will never be WoW... but give players the same UI options and you will have a chance at keeping those that convert from wow who needs skills instead of lvls :)
     
  18. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    Global chat would definately help keep peaple in touch especially on lower pop shards.

    I can think of no problems a global/area/city chat would bring. Yes we have one now,but if its something extra the players have to turn on...... the players will just turn something else on like ICQ that has more functionality.

    Whatever is released should be something that is always on with filter options,otherwise it`ll just get lost like the one we have now is.

    How is better communication a bad thing? I just don`t see it.

    I am REALLY hoping they bring us a better and broader chat system. Thats right up there with black dragons for me!
     
  19. Conall of Chaos

    Conall of Chaos Visitor
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    A global chat would help newcomers alot, I witnessed the introduction of a universal chat in another game and it boosted subscribers alot as older players were on hand to give help.
    UO has a great community, but newplayers cant get the benefit from the vets when there is no channel to ask basic questions and the majority who quit after a few hours/days I bet is because they had no one to help them out.
     
  20. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
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    I'd love to have a global chat system in game. I play a free game named Shaiya (a really really poor mans WoW) as well as UO but my other game has chat options that can send my chat anywhere from private to global so even tho I can see what everyone on the "shard" is saying, I also have the option to make it disappear so I'm not disturbed while I play if I don't want to be.
     
  21. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    I in a way agree with the OP, things like TS and other things killed the community enough as it is, but I don't see global chat doing that unless like the poster above me said and everyone turns it off, or they all get their own silly little channels and become rude to other players much like with people using TS and Vent crap.

    Sorry but I see it in game now and find it very rude.
     
  22. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    A global General Chat in-game is not going to be pretty.

    I'm not a fan of this idea at all. My only request, if they go forward with this idea, would be to create a New Player chat for the 14-day-trialers and not allow them to chat in General Chat until they have paid their sub.

    Trust me on this.
     
  23. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    I think this is a splendid idea! They should still be able to chat in guild/party and so on thou
     
  24. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    ROFL

    Trebr (sp?)

    You make lots of sense, I've also been feeling like this for at least a year. It's harming the time-continuum, we must stop the guardian before it's too late.
     
  25. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    The Guardian has Sosaria by the Christmas balls. Greed and avarice rule the lands. He has the Relics of Mondain. He has the Black Necklace known as Mondain's Embrace. He's broken the crust of the world with Blackrock. He's opened the Underworld to the lands above.

    The Guardian is one step away from his ultimate goal.
     
  26. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
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    UO is lacking good communication tools. It's kinda sad people are more or less "forced" to use ICQ to maintain a friends list and talk more "efficiently"

    I actually find ICQ too much of a pain in the ass, especially in those situations where I need to be paying attention to the game (like in pvp), Yeah it sucks having to go to the contact list, double click, start typing, repeat as necessarily for all 4 UO friends, bleh.

    Now the above scenario can easily be resolved if we were all in the same guild or even alliance, but this is not a perfect world we play UO in.

    Now compare that to WoW, where if no one from my guild is available, and everyone in my friends list is busy, I can still use the general zone chat to find people for groups. Just using some simple chat commands (/1 for general) I can find out more about what's going on then I could tabbing around ICQ, and on a much larger scale.

    Oh and my "head is in the game" more in WoW's chat system then it would be in UO's ICQ dependent system.
     
  27. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I hope that didn't challenge your head too much.
     
  28. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    This
     
  29. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    So, global chat it is! You players who want it want UO to play just like WoW, correct? You want to jump on global chat and see who is willing to run a quest with you, run it, and do the same thing tomorrow, right? When will you talk to someone outside of a chat channel? Roleplayers should take note, but they won't. Explorers should take note, but they won't. Trades people should take note...wait, they have already been gimped to Luna and item level grinds.

    Standardization. Wonderful.
     
  30. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    global chat is awesome, u can sell things a lot easier with it
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    You can do everything a lot easier with it. To the exclusion of everything else in the game. That's what's wrong with MMOs these days. Everything is so easy that there's no game play left. Not just easy, designed and planned for your perceived success. End result is boredom, predetermined game play, give you what you want to the point of you being in want of nothing. Boredom!
     
  32. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
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    Less QQ, More PewPew.
     
  33. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    You should have everyone's undivided attention at all times. Got it. rolleyes:
     
  34. Supreem

    Supreem Founder, Citadel Studios
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    You hit the nail on the head Conall. One of the things we are doing with the global chat changes is to make every new character automatically join the "Help" channel. If you don't want to be in it, you can very easily leave the channel.
     
  35. pgcd

    pgcd Guest

    This might be the single most useful thing to help UO retain new players.
    Well, maybe making the NPE a bit more all-encompassing would help as well, seeing as UO has minigames that are more complicated than quite a lot of the F2P MMOs out there =D, and maybe letting the character creation happen AFTER the NPE, so that it's a tad easier to understand what different professions entail.
    But a global help channel gets my vote every time.
     
  36. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    A Help channel like DAoC had is a good thing. It's not the same thing as a Global channel.
     
  37. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    ... which is also a good thing.
    Or, at least, if it's not a good thing, it's because of reasons that aren't as straight-up wrong as yours.
     
  38. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    What do you mean? What do you see wrong with global chat?
     
  39. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    I don't see anything wrong with global chat.
    Well, there's some fundamental problems with global-global chat.
    But the problems you claim for global chat would apply to regional chat, too, so they're opposable nonetheless, by virtue of them being flawed.
    I'm pretty sure I defined why earlier in the thread, but it's fairly standard to not let logic stand in the way of a crusade.
     
  40. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    How, precisely, would I say, slay a dragon easier with a chat channel? Other than perhaps being able to locate someone else with a similar goal who might also like to come do it.

    This strange assertion of yours that there is no gameplay in games with chat channels is not only silly, but completely devoid of fact, proof, or anything remotely resembling those two words.

    You give a long list of adjectives affecting the term "game play," but you have absolutely nothing to back that notion up with, and given that plenty of games out there prove otherwise.

    Communication, contrary to your belief, does not deter from gameplay, but rather adds to the availability of people to assist you in your gameplay efforts. Why you believe this to be a bad thing is beyond me.
     
  41. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I think we're forgetting the REAL question here... and that is...

    Which sub server will be the UO version of Barrens Chat?

    I rule out Luna as that will be more like Ironforge is (or at least was back a few years ago when I did play).
     
  42. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    Wait UO has a Global chat?

    *thinks*

    UO is community. Commuity is travelling to someone's home. Traveling to the bank, to their guild home. Asking Jack...hey is Jill on?

    i only see a global chat being used to spam stuff. and hateful things to be said. A whole set of things really should be in place. There is nothing like face to face communication.

    Don't we have that chat feature that if we want to login and chat with others on the shard by creating a room with or with a password already?

    i must be missing something :)
     
  43. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Commuity is travelling to someone's home. Traveling to the bank, to their guild home. Asking Jack...hey is Jill on?

    There's a certain irony in claiming that "community" is traveling to another person's location when in reality we are sitting at our homes (not traveling at all) in front of a monitor "talking" (so to type) between representations on a screen.
     
  44. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    There is also grand irony is claiming to be able to recall, conjure beasts, be an elf or gargoyle. I think trying to keep VOIP and ICQ function out of my fantasy world is highly groovy. In my guild we've used those two as well as UOAM. All seem to leave out one person or another in some format. i think guild chat is good. i think party is good. Alliance chat is good. If you want to be spammed constantly to buy something or have UO stripped down to a bunch of acronyms, fine.
     
  45. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Global chat with all the proper features like ignore and so forth shouldn't be too dissimilar to being at a populated bank.

    There's a mod for Enhanced Client that automatically suppresses spam according to various options.. if a player can create that, no reason why the Devils couldn't give us a useful, full-featured global chat system. They could even station a Customer Service representative in the Help channel.

    I have a small guild and a small alliance, most of my characters are in the guild. It tends to isolate you from the majority of the players not being in a huge organisation. Global chat would be good for that situation, or people who don't want to join guilds at all.
     
  46. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, because community would never include the use of a telephone or an email to find out what someone else is doing. Where is your definition of community coming from?

    Additional means of communication, while bringing with it minor annoyances, will help people communicate so that they can better enjoy their gaming experience.

    I don't see how or why this is a bad thing.
     
  47. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    I feel so bad for Draconi... I hope he did not fly down south, hide his head in the sand...

    The handed it to him... and it's so gore that I cannot even begin to mention what the guardian is up to. Which is sad, as far as communication and community goes.

    I learned to behave, go figure.
     
  48. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Ok maybe not... you're going to let this guy spy on everyone in your house ? That should wake up some...

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