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Non magic warrior possible?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Ersahi, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Is it possible to make a non magic warrior? I would like to make a melee thug, but I'm too new to know if it's possible to make a pure fighter type character. I particularly get lost when I start looking at damage/hit cap/whatever caps and gear. I was hoping to start with:

    swordsmanship
    tactics
    lumberjack
    anatomy

    With that as a base template, what do I need to know to make things work, or is it even possible? Trying to stay away from the mage side of things, as I like my characters in two varieties: brutes and thugs.
     
  2. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    minimum you will need chival, im sorry but is true :(
     
  3. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Guess I'm not surprised, just a little disappointed. Thanks.
     
  4. Katrena

    Katrena Sage
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    Every character has limits as to what you can kill, based on the skills you have. So, if you want a non magic warrior, you can build one. The basics would be a weapon skill, Tactics, Parrying, Anatomy and Healing. Lumber Jack will give a bonus if you use an ax.

    Katrena
     
  5. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Does that work? I thought to use lumberjack you had to use a 2 handed ax, so parry doesn't do anything unless you fit Bushido in as well. I've tried to absorb so much information of the last few days that I could easily have that wrong though.
     
  6. Riply

    Riply Lore Keeper
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    Umm I believe if you with pary skill and not bushido you can use a shield for more attributes from the shield and for blocking blows etc

    you could go

    swords 120
    tactics 120
    parry 120
    anatomy 120
    healing 120
    lumberjack 100

    pretty old school set up but could still work just depends on what you fight and the gear your wearing
     
  7. Katrena

    Katrena Sage
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    These calculators will show you the parrying and damage of 1 and 2 handed weapons. I believe with the recent changes, if you add balance to a 2 handed weapon, then you don't parry.

    http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/arms.php
    http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/combat.php
     
  8. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Totally missed that when I was looking at parrying. Good looking out. o/
     
  9. Moldy Fishmonger

    Moldy Fishmonger Adventurer

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    I think the best would be a shield toting guy like this:

    Swords (or mace/fencing if you prefer)
    Tactics
    Anatomy
    Healing
    Parrying
    Resist

    Though I do agree that this would be MUCH better with chivalry. Make sure you have life and mana leech on your weapon!
     
  10. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Yeah, I'm trying to decide how I'm going to build this guy out. I see the core of what I want to do as:

    weapon
    anatomy
    tactics

    I'm planning on using these skills until scrolls of power become my necessary:
    healing
    lumberjack
    resist
    parry
    (I would like to include focus, but it's just doesn't fit)

    If I could reasonably build a template without heal I would try, but I don't think that's realistic. I am tempted to go without resist, but I think I would be seriously limiting what I could fight if I did. Which leaves lumberjack and parry.

    One thought I had was to go sword/anatomy/tactics/lumber/healing/resist and try to overwhelm the bad guy with damage. I would lose the 20% parry, but would gain 30% damage with this build. The other is what Moldy suggested, and go mace/tactics/anatomy/healing/resist/parry with mace and shield.

    I was hoping that doing this kind of build would free up enough on my equipment bonuses that I could stack things that wouldn't normally be possible, but I don't think that I actually gain that much. Hopefully I can fit on something that a chiv build can't that will make it workable, even if I don't have all the extra utility that comes from having magic. I'm also thinking that being an elf is the way to go, even though it curls my spine to play an elf. At least they look human as far as I can tell.
     
    #10 Ersahi, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  11. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Well, I figured out why I was stupid. I was thinking that damage bonuses were multiplicative with each other, but they additive. Guess that makes the lumberjack bonus...well, jack. With that in mind I guess I'll go a mace and shield warrior.
     
  12. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Have you read the sticked guide for new/returned players?

    There are two groups of bonuses - Damage Increase and Damage Bonus (Multiplier).
    Lumberjack gives about 40 DI. That means about 10% more damage.


    What things are you going to fight?

    With your template you will do about 40 damage per hit against medium monsters and about 20 damage per hit against hard monsters. Well with a proper slayer weapon you will do 2x more damage. So you will do from 20 to 80 damage depending on monster type (20 to hard monsters and 80 to easy monsters). With a good template you could do 150-200 damage per hit against one target and over 1000 damage per hit against large groups.

    Using Healing you can heal 5-10 HP per second.
    The most of hard monster do 40 damage per hit and some of them can do 100 damage per hit.
    Medium monsters do about 20 damage per hit. You will be able to out-heal damage from one such monsters but probably won't be able to fight against 2-3 monsters at the same time.
     
  13. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    I have read a lot of it, but a lot of the stuff is hard to understand because you have to understand the intricacies of the damage calculation system, specifically how the bonuses interact and the caps imposed.

    For example, I had a problem with the damage increase property. I heard that you can do 300% damage, but I was unsure if that was +300% or if it was +200%, and what specifically that includes.

    So from what I understand DI this is the way it works:

    weapon (50 max)
    jewewry (2 pieces up to 25 each)
    bushido (+100% at 10 perfection)
    slayer weapon (100)
    super slayer (200)
    chiv spells (dunno how much)
    anything else?

    But that caps out at 200, anything above that is wasted.

    Other multipliers are
    Anatomy 65% max
    Tactics 81.25% max
    str 50% max @ 150 (is this right?)
    lumberjack 30% max

    so we end up with this as the final damage:
    base damage + [base damage * (200% DI + 65% + 81.25% + 50% + 30%)]
    base damage + [base damage * 4.26]
    base damage * 5.26 total w/lumberjack, or 4.96 without
    Is this the correct way that this works, or am I being stupid with where this caps? In the situation where you can cap DI @200 the bonus from lumberjack is ~6%, but if you can only hit +100% DI lumberjack represents a larger relative boost ~7.5%.

    But like I said I'm still trying to figure out if I have the sources and cap of DI correct, or if I'm doing everything correctly. It's hard to dig through the acronyms and formulas when you're new.
     
  14. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Damage Increase
    STR, Anatomy, Tactics, Lamberjack
    items (100% cap)

    Character Base Damage (CBD) - damage you see in the stat window
    Weapon Base Damage (WBD)
    CBD = WBD * [100% + DI]/100%

    max CBD = 4.26 with lumberjack or 3.96 without

    Damage Bonuses (multipliers) - 300% cap (x3)
    Perfection 100% (x2)
    EOO 82% @120 chivalry (x1.82)
    Super Slayer 100% (x2)
    Minor Slayer 200% (x3)

    You can reach the cap (x3) with any two of them.

    When you use minor slayer you needn't other multipliers.
    When you use super slayer you need just 50% bonus from Perfection or EOO. But if you use AI (x0.9) then you need 67% bonus from Perfection or EOO: 2 * 1.67 * 0.9 = 3.0

    So if you use a Bladed Stuff:
    BWD = 14-17
    CBD = ~BWD*4 = 55-67
    Final Damage with max bonus = CBD*3 = 155-201

    If moster has 50% resists then applied damage will be 77-100. But if you use AI then applied damage will be 155-201.

    If you have 300+ in sword/bushido/parry and 45 LMC then you need (30-10)*2 * 0.55 = 22 mana per AI
    If you have 75% HML you leach 0.2*0.75 = 15% damage to mana so you need to do about 150 damage per hit to be able chain Ai.
     
  15. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Looks like I knew enough to confuse myself, but I was off the mark. I had not really considered the possibility of using a weapon skill for every attack, but now that the idea is there I have to figure out how to support it correctly. It does look like I'll be locked into pierce armor weapons though, as nothing else comes close once resistances go above 10%.

    Good looking out though, the information I have should help me be less stupid. o/
     
  16. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I hope you know about Special Move Mana Reduction
    Special move mana cost can be decreased by having multiples of certain skills. With 200 to 299 combined skill points, the cost will decrease by 5 mana. Having 300 or more it will decrease by 10 mana. The included skills are: Swordsmanship, Mace Fighting, Fencing, Archery, Throwing, Parrying, Lumberjacking, Stealth, Poisoning, Bushido, Ninjitsu.
    and Special Move Mana Cost Penalty
    Performing two special moves within 3 seconds will double the mana cost of the second.

    When you don't use AI you usually use Concentrate Weapon (Chivalry) that allows you to do damage through the target's lowest resist. Regular monsters usually have less than 50 in at least one resistance. So there are two moves that do more damage against such monsters.

    Whirlwind Attack allows a single warrior to damage multiple adjacent targets in a single attack. Bushido gives a damage bonus to Whirlwind (depends on number of opponents).
    So even against two targets WW often does more damage than AI. WW is the best way to control (eliminate) crowds.

    Double Strike allows an attacker to strike their opponent twice.
    So when the target has low resist DS does more damage than AI.

    There is a very good weapon - Double Axe - that has both WW and DS.

    While DS often does more damage AI is a universal move. If you are going to be able fight any monster in the game you must have AI and may have DS (to use when it does more damage). At beginning you usually don't fight monsters that require AI to kill.
     
  17. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Where does the damage increase from the special attack Force of Nature get added in the damage calculated? More curious than anything.

    I saw the information about the mana cost reduction. I wasn't quite sure what the best method of taking advantage of it was. It seems like I should probably try to get a weapon that ends up at the 3.0 speed after dex/stamina is calculated, and try to use a mana leech weapon to sustain it. This gives the benefit of not hitting the double cost (I think) while giving me time to build up my set. If I can get a really good set then I can try looking at the sub 3 second swing time, but that is all a ways off.
     
  18. Bleak

    Bleak UO Software Engineer
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    The damage increase from Force of Nature is applied to final damage multiplier which is subject to 300%.
     
  19. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Well this is the quote from stratics about how Force of Nature Functions...
    So unless I'm totally confusing Bleak's information I'd interpret that to all mean that if hit someone in PvP with a Wild Staff & that character attacking with the staff has 150 Strength I should do potentially DOUBLE dmg to my target?? (aka 200%) The only part I'm not positive about without testing is if by "The attacker" they mean the person HOLDING the Wild staff or the person being hit by it lol.... I'm going to guess that the person ATTACKING with the force of nature weapon in hand Takes Damage for the ability to apply a STUN & potentially do 200% base dmg to hit target... .... Anyone know?
     
    #19 Vexxed, Nov 7, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
    Bleak_Mythic likes this.
  20. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    You take damage for using Force of Nature. At least that is what I remember when I was playing on the test server.

    Kind of makes it bad, but I think it looks neat.
     
  21. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    If the point is to not use mana on a warrior: Then no. At minimum you will need to use specials.

    If the point is to not use mana other than specials: Then yes. As othes have pointed out go full on old-school warrior with Parry and Resist and carry a shield, or have no Parry, use Lumberjacking, and use an axe weapon. Others have had success with these methods. I've discovered that I miss Chivalry too much.

    If the point is to have a support skill that can be RPed as non-magical in nature: Then go the Bushido route. Use a shield with no Parry, or use Parry with a 2-hander or 1-hander with no shield. High damage potential but the catch is that it's just potential; Chivalry is surer and if you have 120 Chivalry it's possible to duplicate Bushido's damage output these days.

    I wouldn't mind them broadening the base of warrior skills, perhaps by a new skill and/or by making certain non-magical skills (I'm thinking of Stealing and Tracking in particular) have certain effects when used on a template that doesn't have either Lumberjacking, or Bushido, or Chivalry, or Magery (etc., you get the idea). Not enough to duplicate Bushido or Chivalry but enough to make the "Warrior Ranger" or "Warrior Thief/Rares Collector," both fantasy archetypes, into viable templates.

    -Galen's player
     
  22. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    I just wanted a warrior, I'm not one of those spell-casting people. Keep it simple: get a good weapon, maybe a shield, and go smack some baddies around.

    I knew that I was going to be missing a lot of utility that casters have. Casters have always had massive utility in the game, but I was willing to bypass that utility if I could just smash face a little bit better. The issue I ran into is that I ran out of 'smash face better' options that didn't send me down path of sissydom...err, I mean magic. After I got a weapon, tactics, and anatomy everything seemed to be pushing towards defense, bushido, or chivalry. I was also hoping that by foregoing the magic side of things that I would simplify the suit that I was after, specifically dropping some of the mage focused bonuses would allow me to beef up some of the warrior side benefits. Neither of those is really materializing, but I think I can make due with trying to set up a special move spamming fighter. I'm not unhappy with it, and I think I'll enjoy playing my guy, but I was hoping for some more interesting trade off choices.

    But thanks for the ideas folks. I'll leave the casting to the ladies and elves. ;)
     
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I think you could do so and be pretty effective. If you can get some good LL AI weapons you wont miss vamp form I don't imagine.

    I use a shield (with "sissy" skills ;)) and I really enjoy the extra mods. But I play on siege so its a little different.
     
  24. Ersahi

    Ersahi Visitor

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    Yeah, I started on Siege, but without strong crafting support or people to play with it was pretty boring. I switched over to Atlantic, and have just been building up my character. Right now this is what I look like:

    100 anatomy
    ~90 healing
    100 tactics
    100 swords
    ~85 parry
    100 lumberjack
    100 focus
    ~10 resisting spells

    I was thinking about stoning off lumberjack and swords to pick up mace (I like the way the war axe looks, and the specials are good for me right now). I didn't really plan on keeping focus, but I figured why not let it go up while I was training towards the skill cap. I have kind of hit the big cliff though, I'm not really pulling in that much gold, and the power scrolls are very expensive. I am pulling in what gold I can fighting orcs in the orc cave, the haven elemental mine, and the first level of shame. I think the haven mine is the best gold, but I have to switch it up now and again. I'm not sure where else I can have success.

    I think I'm building towards this (all 120):
    Anatomy
    Healing
    Tactics
    Swords (or mace)
    Resist
    Parry

    It's a sword and shield basic build, hopefully using either a war ax, hammer pick, broadsword, or long sword. I'm not sure how much not getting the full mp reduction for AI is going to hurt me though, as it stands I only get -5 mp. Just trying to feel it out, and trying to figure out where the best place to farm me up a mountain of gold.
     
  25. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    You need a lesser slayer to do 3x damage. For example, earth elemental slayer for shame.