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Non-vendorable items ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    What is this thing about vendorable and non-vendorable items ?

    Aren't all items allowed to be put on vendors to be sold ?

    I keep hearing about players only buying items through vendors and no longer through trade windows.
    They even are willing to pay a lot more if the item is sold through a vendor rather than through a trade window.

    Is there a problem with trade windows being unsafe ?
    This game gets weirder and weirder......
     
  2. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    Some time ago, the devs put in code that was intended to detect duped items. This code prevented items that flagged as duped from being placed on vendors. It was therefore assumed at first that if an item could not be placed on a vendor, that it must be duped.

    However, this was not the case. It gradually becaame evident that items that are carried across shards that were vendorable on the first shard sometimes become unvendorable on the second shard. The dupe check flags some items erroneously, and because of the perception that these items must be duped (which is not always true) and the inability to now place them on vendors, the items are drastically reduced in value.

    There is a thread about this issue here in the Rares Collector forum with a more thorough discussion.
     
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  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    So, if it is not possible to say whether a non vendorable item is duped or not duped, how can a buyer protect oneself against a wrong purchase ?

    I mean, if an item is still legittimate (i.e. not duped) but it is much cheaper because not vendorable, how does the player know that the purchase is a safe one because the item is not a duped one and one can also save agood chunk of millions because the item has been transferred and that is the reason for it not being vendorable ?

    How much more are, vendorable items worth, as compared to non vendorable items ?

    Like, say that a player has an animated tinker legs piece that is vendorable, how much would it be worth more than a non vendorable animated tinker legs piece ??
     
  4. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    popps this patch has been out for at least 6 months now. Like Riyanna said items can become non-vendorable from duping, or from transfer bug. also alot of duped items go on vendors fine (like event items for instance) the patch was pretty much a disaster.

    a non-vendorable usually sells for about 20 - 50 percent less depending how the item. Dont buy cheap stuff on atlantic in trade window. (or any stuff really) too often its non-vendorable.
     
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  5. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Lets not also forget that some stuff that has been duped can still be placed on a vendor.
     
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  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But if duped items sell at half price, and they are still legit to have, why would one want to spend twice as much on a vendorable item ?

    For example, say that I need a 120 powerscroll to use, if the duped one works just fine and yet, being non vendorable I can pay for it half price, why would I want to spend twice as much to get the same end result ??
     
  7. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    There is no way to know for sure unless you looted the item yourself. All you can do is use your best judgment.
     
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  8. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Exactly! You hit the nail on the head there. The whole "dupe detection" system is a total joke and seems to harm more legit players than the dupers. The xfer bug being a prime example of this.
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not understand what using my best judgement may mean....

    As I see it, either buying non vendorable items at a savings is advisable, or it is not...

    How can it be advisable for some players and not for others ?
     
  10. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Again this is why the system is so broken. A Slither is a great example to use here. If your planning on using the item on one of your own characters then surely it doesn't matter if its duped or not?

    Sure some people would argue that buying non-vendorable items supports the dupers. I would argue that the devs have let these "non-vendorable" items remain in game, so they are OK to use. I'm sure if they wanted to have them deleted they could. Instead they just made it so duped items cant be sold via a vendor.
     
  11. Riyana

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    It's not so much that they are legit, but rather that neither the game nor the player can tell unless they looted it themselves.

    As far as I know, no one has ever been banned or disciplined for simply having a nonvendorable item. Mesanna is aware of the cross sharding problem.

    1. Duped items are supposed to be made unvendorable by the dupe detecting code, but it doesn't always work. Many duped items are vendorable.
    2. Legitimate items that are traded across shards are sometimes flagged as duped by this code, so many legitimate items are nonvendorable.
    3. You can't tell the difference unless you looted it yourself.

    It is a judgment call you as a buyer have to make. If you see one guy spamming in Luna that he's selling 10 Slithers at half price... well, that looks awfully suspect. If your guildmate you've known for years wants to sell you 1 Slither he says he brought back from Atlantic and that he bought it from a vendor but can't put on a vendor now that it's transferred... that looks a lot less suspect. But you can't tell for sure--the first guy MIGHT be legit and your guildmate MIGHT have duped his.

    So I guess the questions you should ask go something like this:

    1. Does it matter to me if the item is vendorable or not as long as it works?
    2. Can I afford the higher price of a seemingly legitimate item even knowing that vendorable is not always the same as non-duped? (Price may not be a consideration for some players, but might be much more important to others.)
    3. Do I trust the seller?
    4. How much do I care if I end up accidentally supporting a duper?

    I imagine many if not most of us have purchased or used duped items at some point without even knowing it. The cheating in UO has really gotten out of hand, but as players there is nothing we can do but use our best judgment in trading and make the best choices we can with the information we have. Until there is an accurate, reliable dupe detection system all we can do is weigh each trade situation individually against our own needs and motivations.
     
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  12. MissEcho

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    I guess it depends on the item popps. If it is 'useable' immediately seems that if it is duped or exploited it is fine to sell as the 'evidence' is consumed. Items that were duped/exploited, can still be placed on vendors so why anyone would think it is safer is a myth, eg: anyone remember the mythic token debacle? Another example of people being ripped off by cheaters, and the devs not responding to the problem until DAYS after the problem was 'known' about although the horse had definitely bolted. People lost millions because they assumed that buying off a vendor was now 'safe' due to the supposed 'fix' and in the early days when the tokens first appeared 'cheap' but not unusually so, like around the 50-60 mil mark they purchased them. A few days later after hundreds of tokens started flooding the market they dropped to around 9k or so. Even after they were known about it was still close to two days before the 'fix' came in and Yet all tokens were deleted once the devs decided to act, although yet again not a word was put on the log in screen to warn people not to purchase them as soon as the dupe was discovered, and yet again innocents were out millions and NOTHING happened to those selling the items. Same old, same old.

    The only reason to put stuff on a vendor if your not a regular shop is so that the person doesn't have to carry millions in bags in their pack and the seller doesn't have to count it all in a trade window. Much easier to stick a 110 million item on a vendor than doing it by trade..
     
  13. Riyana

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    Also, there is still a lot of mis-perception floating around on this topic. People unaware of the cross sharding bug will swear up and down that that nonvendorable always means duped. Like DJAd said, this is hurting legitimate players at little expense to actual dupers.

    Basically, the system is a mess.
     
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  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I can agree completely with that !!

    Something should be really done to straighten it up, though.....
     
  15. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I think any item that flags as duped should be automatically deleted by the system that flags it.
     
  16. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    popps, there's a certain individual I naturally can't name, with enough of a reputation that I'd never buy anything from him. He's "strongly suspected" by most everyone else of dealing with duped items, if not duping things himself. He openly brags that he'll just page a GM to have an item cleaned of the non-vendorable flag, and if that's true, what's the point to the flag? Meanwhile there are legitimate players, as we see from time to time on UHall, who do a simple shard transfer and find an honest item got flagged. It's really messed up.
     
  17. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    I can confirm that GM's do sometimes "clean" items, someone bought a non vendorable slither at my auction (which was vendorable on the sellers home shard, I transferred it myself) He called a GM, they "cleaned" it, and it was on the buyers vendor last time I saw it. I'm not sure if they are only allowed to "clean" items if they see proof it was vendorable originally, or if they can just do it whenever they want.