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not 100% sure yet but it looks like they slipped in a change at server down

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kojak, Mar 11, 2011.

  1. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    you get pulled off the boat by the blackrock golems you're fighting now
     
  2. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Well, scratch off one lame way to farm stuff.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I assume it must be a bug because it is my understanding that this was asked specifically (about fighting Blackrock Golems from a boat) and a Developer (can't remember who...) said specifically that fighting from the Boat was OK since the Blackrock Golem did do damage to the player being on the boat.

    So, the question was asked, and also from what I seem to understand it was answered (anyone got a link to the Dev answer ?) and apparently it was said, that it is a legit style of fighting. Therefore, I must conclude, this change cannot be intended and must be a bug.
     
  4. Slickjack

    Slickjack Rares Fest Host | Cats Nov 2010
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    what Popps said.

    :loser:


    anyway,

    This was a ROUGH way to find out about the change. Recall to boat, lure BG over, EVERYONE DEAD.

    Anyone got the coffee on, it's going to be a LONG day....
     
  5. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    It's always possible they decided to change it, And until they did they said it was legal to fight them using a boat.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Change it ?

    I am sorry, but if fighting a Blackrock Golem from a boat had already been addressed by a member of the current Developers' Team and said a legit style of fighting since the Golem does deliver damage to the player, I would imagine that any change to it should have been done only after ample forewarning of players. Forewarning, which I do not happen to have any knowledge of. Does anyone else ?

    I may well be wrong in my opinion, but given the logical analysis of what was my understanding, everything leads me to think that this is merely a bug as sometimes happen when publishes are released.
     
  7. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, just because something is allowed it doesn't mean it can't be changed.

    -Galen's player
     
  8. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Has anyone checked to see if the Japanese UO site has patch notes up? I wouldn't be at all shocked if they received a warning yesterday about this.

    EDIT: Just checked ultimaonline.jp, and sure enough they had patch notes. Granted, all it said was "Localization updates" for the description...

    On the other hand, who do we have to beat to get Mythic to update the Herald in a timely manner?
     
  9. Cerwin Vega

    Cerwin Vega Lore Keeper
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    No one on Atl even fights these things, mostly because who wants to fight one with 5-10 other people of 1 armor. Fighting them on a boat was the only way to kill them by yourself and it took forever. Their was no need to make them harder.
     
  10. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    That was my point aye, They promised people wouldn't be banned for it, not that it would remain.
     
  11. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Giving mobs a bunch of special abilities is the only way this Dev Team knows to make things "harder," since, ya know, actually coding better AI tactics is WELL beyond their abilities.

    Remember all the 'Easy Button' UO whines? This is the result.
     
  12. Argh,
    They are monsters, they can adapt.
     
  13. BINGO.
    I wish.
    YES YES 100000 hit point, no 500000, no 1 million.... that will make the game more fun. BLAH.

    How about 5k in hit points. 200 golems and hoards. AS YOU SAY... some IA. Monster targeting single players. Group casting. Cross healing and generally a better tactic to kill us.
     
  14. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    This is something that bothers me a little.

    In the old days, a mage could teleport onto a ledge in some places, and whale away safely at MOBs. Archers too. Or players would drop crates inside a dungeon entrance to form a barrier, so as to safely use missiles and magic. Or to jump/port the crates, fight a little, and jump/port back for safety when things got too hot.

    Now, yeah, I know, it's not "fair", and all that. And farming, yes, nothing stops farming. But dangit, it was fun!

    One thing about "fun" is the satisfying feeling people get by "beating the odds". Another thing about it is using tools available to you to overcome. And instead of adding more "fun", we're taking it out of MMORPGs. This is troublesome to me, it just seems like the wrong way to go.
     
  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Yes they are monsters and they should adapt... after all so do we do we not?

    But... that said I hate the easy button on UO. Yes lets give them insane resists and millions of hp that will make a great monster.

    I'd rather see them act better. Though I am not fond of para ganking tactics given to hordes... some do use them.

    I like how some monsters "know" that pets are controlled by a tamer and target the tamer as well as the pet.

    Not sure though what more could be done to make them more difficult and challenging perhaps others have more ideas.

    Is always better to give some input not just be critical. Anyone can be a critic... it takes more thought to assist and offer perhaps some alternatives and ideas.

    If you want things to improve offer some idea's for solutions.
     
  16. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Like the rock barriers in Wrong while fighting the Juka.

    As far as the Golums most often we fight them in the open. Most players don't know how to use the corners of a house. LOL. And the western side of Mag is the big hill. The north side has bunch of rabbit holes that golums step in and get stuck. There is even one theese rabbit holes south of where the bank used to be.

    Would have to say this spawn only supports few templates. Why Ophid event went so well. Any template worked. Just more spawn with a chance of a drop. They should of had 1/10th strength golums, 10x the spawn with a 1 in 10 chance for a drop. Sure they giggle like little girls, peeing in their pants after putting the only healers in the middle of the spawn area.

    I had last straw yesterday doing 6 with other people. 76 per Ebolt and 729 point WoD, running on a way bigger mana pool then most others there. Been at least 20 and no drop but one. I WoD by mistake another golum 4 times. Only damage to it and I got an armor drop. Armor that I gave to the players that worked it down.

    Like the Stranger event I have to say this event pixel crack is just not worth my time. Bad mechanics and no clue how players play their game.

    Yet to log on yet today. What was strange yesterday was all boats, old and new, had no mast or sails displayed. I like the clean deck view. Make an option on the boat menu.
     
  17. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i agree they were too easy to kill by yourself. but now its pointless. only one drop per team, and it takes forever to kill them.. plus now you die a lot.
     
  18. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    You could just melee them toe to toe, like I did since the first day of the event.

    :/
     
  19. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    honestly wonder if they aren't trying to make players quit some time.

    if you put it in game its in game DON'T CHANGE IT if its broke then yes fix it but months latter you change for no reason now only 1 play style can solo it sampires

    like others i have been gone months just got back this week WTF are they going to have the armor drop after the updates to mag like maybe in the old dungeons ?
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Mesanna told me and two friends on Origin that it was 100% legit to kill Blackrock Golems on a boat because they still do damage to you. But I guess they felt the need to raise prices for those who haven't farmed it yet ;P.
     
  21. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    not true, it can be solo'd by a dexer(forget which kind.) my mouth dropped when i saw someone soloing this thing when i went to magencia. btw they were soloing it WELL, not just barely but WELL.
     
  22. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    The Golems learned from there weakness so they learned some new tricks to kill us. :)

    I love it!
     
  23. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Most dexxers should be able to solo them, golems only do one kind of damage so they aren't too hard. Just need to use bandages, feint, I use counter attack which is really nice for a bushido dexxer. Can also use pots to help out. I did a fair share of running trying to figure it out on my first go because my mana didn't stay up between feints at first, but once you get into a nice lightning strike / counter attack you should be good to go. Biggest thing to think about ahead of time is you're going to have to fight on foot, because golems dismount you. Save your pet, use an ethy if you can, and keep in mind you can outrun a golem on foot but you're going to need to heal why you run and consider the odd chance of a bombard stopping you with a brief stun. Also keep in mind golems don't seem to heal fast, if at all, and jousting is perfectly fine.
     
  24. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    Some AI that would work and not be that hard to implement:

    If a monster can't find an open path to the attacker(s), they look for anything to destroy around the attacker and do so. Including any chests, loot, or other monsters in the area. Allow them to destroy things we can't, to even things up a little.

    Add parry and other defensive skills randomly to appropriate monsters. Let them use blocking spells defensively (you're hitting a lich and suddenly it casts wall of stone two or three times and encases you in stone so you can't get a line of sight.)

    I would prefer they remove the machine-gun style of attack and spell use for monsters unless it is a top level monster (balrons, ancients, etc.) Give us good AI to fight, perhaps tailored to the groups fighting, with multiple random styles.

    There should be ettins that throw boulders at you, others that like to hit you with a weapon, and others that know a few spells. There should be liches that know when to leave a battle (and get more powerful.) Dragons should actually be protecting their hoards, or their dragon-kin, or just lusting after a girl on a unicorn.

    Nobody wants to actually code interesting reactions because they know players 90% of the time won't actually interact but just attack. I find it sad, because they seem to assume we players are just looking for junk and not actually trying to do something interesting or heroic any more.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Once one has the right armor and the right weapon there is no much tactics in the melee fight of Blackrock Golems.

    It is just standing there and bash to leech back health and mana for special moves like armor ignore or other special moves which do high damage.

    The teleporting change just screwed ranged characters like archers and throwers.

    It did not change tamers but the tamer is unplayable anyways against Blackrock Golems since it takes from 60 to 90 minutes to kill a Blackrock Golem with a pet anyways, making it not much viable.

    Golems move fast and force a ranged weapon hunter to move a lot. But moving, is bad for ranged attacks because it either screws up accuracy or lowers damage dealt.

    The only character not harmed by the change is the meleeing Sampire.

    Makes me wonder if the Developers want all players to end up playing a Sampire and be done with all other templates in Ultima Online.........
     
  26. jaashua

    jaashua Guest

    Everything in this game is balanced around tamers with GDs. They've had to add in so many ridiculous mob tactics to try to counter ridiculous game mechanics that it's now just....ridiculous.
     
  27. jaashua

    jaashua Guest

    I am positive none of the devs ever conceived that players would use these skill sets together to become unstoppable mob killing machines......which should be an indicator of who's smarter. :)
     
  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The beauty of a game Like Ultima Online, as I see it, is that it is a game where a variety of skills can be played thus making the game varied and creative.

    But if the same one template (the Sampire), always is the one template at an edge over all other templates, that is the one template that players can fight everything in the game and even solo MoBs which other templates have a hard time fighting even in groups, then chances are that eventually all players will migrate to that template, the Sampire, given the gross advantages there are to using that particular template in fights, rather than others.

    The current change to the Blackrock Golems seems to me yet another burden to players not wanting to play a Sampire and a game change that actually pushes further more players into making the move to playing a Sampire because only a Sampire can effectively fight a Blackrock Golem.

    Personally, I see this as a bad thing for the game because it kills diversity of templates in the game and provides even more reasons to players to stop playing other templates and move onto playing a Sampire, only.

    I really hope it is just an unwanted bug and that the situation will be reverted to allowing players to fight from boats again.

    Otherwise, we'll just see more Sampires around which will further harm diversity of templates in Ultima Online.
     
  29. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    If this is true though, then why is it that nobody fights rend. And why do you (and do you really?) care about diversity? In other words, I think the reality is that people just enjoy playing sampires because of all the same reasons people have outlined to point out and claim are the issue. It is a superman kind of character, but that is fine. I guess what we want then is for all our characters of any make to be superman characters. Clearly, nobody is willing to take a performance hit and just roleplay a loss to a stronger foe, or take on monsters that have crap for loot just for the sake of fighting. The ambivalence in what people state they want here on the boards and how they are behaving in the game is glaring. It is not the game pushing towards the sampire template, it is the players themselves doing that. I am as guilty of that as anyone. Moreover, if they "nerve" the sampire template, I will quickly gravitate to the next best/most powerful template. And I dare to say, so will everyone else. As a side note to that, I do believe that due to imbuing, the relative power distance of various templates has become smaller. I can be more effective with different templates than before, as I can tweak my suits much better. However, Sampire type leech dependent characters are definitely king for PvM.
     
  30. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    QFT

    moreover, the fact that one can come up with so many different permutations and that ultimately someone comes up with such a clever combination is why I, and I think a lot of us, play this game.

    In stead of blaming the game for pushing us to these templates, maybe we should blame stratics for deseminating these templates and stimulating us to collaboratively make them even better. We should be "forced" to figure it out ourselves, so that people like Popps can continue to enjoy diversity. (JOKE / SARCASM alert)
     
  31. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    dont you know? our devs are professionals, they know what they do ;)

    fixing important bugs first then minor things ;)

    possible brainstorming devs :

    1.we sold them High seas expansion with HUGE new ships

    2.golems on magincia

    3. magincia is an island

    4.nobody like to run in circle around dumb golems

    5.player LIKE to kill golems from boat

    ?????????????????????????

    THIS IS a SERIOUS BUG........WE must fix this BUG..........

    LOL LOL LOL ....have you nothing important to do Cpt.Cal ?
     
  32. EricVT

    EricVT Adventurer
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    For a brief period of time this was actually in place and it did nothing but cause grief to everyone. An ettin would wander into your home and destroy everything.
     
  33. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Playing a sampire or a wammy is like being a drummer in a punk band. It's a lot of micromanaging over a short span of time. While the task seems simple, the execution takes precision, and timing. Either way, you don't need a sampire to kill a golem.

    Like I said earlier, golems only do one kind of damage, and then sometimes they stun you. Sampires are great because they "heal through" multiple forms of damage, but for golems, all you really need is a dexxer with parry and at least one way to heal. In fact, some may prefer not to use a sampire in favor of using bandages to counter the possible stun.
     
  34. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But that is the core of the problem, as I see it.

    Since players want to tackle big monsters, "if" only the "superman" template can do that or it can do that much better than all other templates, chances are that most if not all players eventually will just use that "superman" template (in our case the Sampire....).

    And what does this mean to Ultima Online ?

    The end of template diversity and players just using the "Superman" Sampire template.......

    Before the change (which I still see as a bug....) to blackrock Golems, we could see a variety of templates fighting them. Now, it's only those who have a Sampire.

    Chances are, therefore, that all those players wanting to fight Blackrock Golems will feel the pressure to make a Sampire themselves so that they can too fight the Blackrock Golem.

    And this kills diversity in the game, as I see it.

    Templates should be capable moreless the same to tackle MoBs, I can possibly see some templates have an advantage at fighting "some" MoB but this, only if it is balanced by a countering disadvantage at fighting other MoBs.

    In the case of our "Superman" Sampire template, it can fight and way faster and better, almost all there is in the game included some bosses which other templates have hard time to fight even when in a group.... I cannot see much "countering: balance to what a Sampire really cannot fight, as compared to what all other templates cannot fight.......

    It would surprise me very much if I was to think that the developers wanted players to all move to just use a Sampire template. Therefore, since the current change to Blackrock Golems means that, a pressure onto players to make a Sampire to fight Blackrock Golems, I have to conclude, whether right or wrong, that to my opinion the current change is merely a bug, not intended. Besides, as I see it, it really makes no sense to change the dynamic of a spawn towards its ending.....

    I just hope that the bug will be fixed fastly reverting to how it previously was, in a timely manner giving players, before the event ends, a chance to get their armor if they want so.
     
  35. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But when a Sampire can get the job done (kill the Blackrock Golem) in about 10 minutes when a Tamer will need between 60 to 90 minutes, even with a trained up pet, I think chances are that most players will end up using a Sampire, rather than a tamer, for example.......

    This gets there just the same, to have most players ending up using a Sampire because it makes the fighting faster and more efficient.

    But then, if most if not all players end up using a Sampire for their fights, where goes the diversity of templates in Ultima Online ??
     
  36. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    If a sampire/wammy is a drummer in a punk band, a tamer is a backup folk singer playing a tambourine. You get what you play for. And dexxers doing more DPS than a tamer is nothing new. Been that way since AOS. Why are there still tamers? Because not everyone likes to play at a frantic pace.
     
  37. jaashua

    jaashua Guest

    Right. The flexibility and diversity has always been a HUGE upside for UO. But when there is one skill combination that is vastly superior to all others for PvM, you are basically funneling players towards that template.

    I refuse to play a sampire. Partly just to be original, partly for the challenge of having to use tactics, and partly because I still hold out hope that they will solidly nerf the template and, at that point, I won't be learning how to play all over again.
     
  38. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    They could of gave the BR Golum the power of the Shadow Elemental from the start. Making casters and tamers as usefull as a bard.

    The fact that two golums beating on each other would take twice as long to get a kill over a Sampire is a big WTF. Discord should at least work. Screaming flute weakens the crystaline metal.