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Note to Devs about new Shame loot and equipment in general

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Luke Carjacker, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. First of all, thanks a lot for putting a lot of work into an old area to make it more fun, and for listening to player concerns in recent weeks. Definitely a huge thumbs up on both counts. I don't have great characters on Origin, but I puttered around for a while and think it will be great fun to explore and maybe get some new items.

    Which gets us to the main point of this post, the items available in the new Shame loot system (and I assume other dungeons as they are rolled out). I think there's a real flaw and I hope that the Devs will give it some real thought before this new system gets too entrenched and rolled out to all the old dungeons.

    The problem is that items are only useful as they are incorporated with other parts of a suit (weapons may be different). In other words, if someone goes down into Shame and pulls out a super-duper-uber bracelet or helmet or whatever, it's unlikely that it will do them much good until they build a suit around it. They might have to re-balance resists, or maybe the new item gives HCI where none existed before, but since most people these days (via imbuing) are capped in most of the critical attributes, just subbing in a new super-artifact piece won't make any difference.

    Which leads to the question of, who's going to spend considerable time, resources or gold to construct a new suit around an item that is cursed/brittle/cannot be repaired? Would someone really spend 30 hours gathering resources & building a suit around an item that may only last a few hours of play-time? It's absurd. And of course, since these items are so unique, there's not even the remotest possibility you could replace the cursed/brittle/non-repair item once it wears out or is lost; rendering the rest of the suit useless.

    So you say, don't invest all that time building a suit, just throw something together to take advantage of the powerful new artifact? What would be the point in that, when you can get better overall results without using these new loot drops.

    So, I think within a few weeks everyone will come to realize that these loot drops will be by and large useless. Sure some lower-end items with currently unavailable attributes might prove to be good starting points for imbuing, but I can't imagine why anyone would spend any time building suits around cursed/brittle/non-repair items (the -100 luck I can see, that's not a major negative in some situations).

    The Devs have stated that it will be extremely rare to find higher end items that don't have the major negative attributes, and exponentially rares still to find such an item that actually has positive attributes that fit together. If it takes hundreds or thousands of hours of play time to find such an item as has been implied, I can't imagine most people will waste their time trying to do it (once the initial interest wears off).

    One suggestion might be some artifacts with a fixed set of useful attributes that can only be acquired in the new dungeons and will always be cursed/brittle/low-durability. Let's take an Ornament of the Magician as an example. I use it in a number of templates, and if it were only available cursed/brittle, I'd still incorporate it into suits if more could be acquired, because it is useful enough.

    I think this system would work because people who want to farm for items would have a ready market for these powerful but cursed/brittle artifacts. And people who want to build more powerful suits could incorporate such artifacts, knowing that they may have to pay (or farm) to replace the items once they are lost or wear out. Under the current system, I think it would be very difficult for people to sell artifacts from the new loot system because, once again, even powerful items probably won't fit the suits of other players.

    Currently, there's very little demand for cursed doom arties because non-cursed versions are available. What if there were some new, desirable artifacts that were only available as cursed/brittle versions? Definite risk/reward scenario, for both pvpers & pvmers. You could build a more powerful pvper and potentially die less...but when you do it'll cost you; you could build a more powerful sampire suit and kill faster...but if you die in a crowd you could get looted.

    I don't know if this would work, but I wanted to give a constructive suggestion after pointing out the flaws in the newly introduced system. I just don't want to have the new system put in just to find out in a few months after the newness fades that people have zero interest in these items because they simply are not useful by and large. People like to spend their time playing the game, I think very very very few would be willing to spend 30 hours gathering materials & re-building their suit to just so they can take advantage of a new arty for a couple of hours before it crumbles to dust (or is lost or taken).
     
  2. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Have to disagree with the OP.

    I think it will be a blast looking for the right item, and certain temps don't need high durability items.

    If the item is real unique, it will be used, or sold for a lot of money.

    Besides, new monsters to fight is always good....

    ps. if it isn't worth your time to go to Shame, then don't...simples.
     
  3. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    basically I see this system very good for new players so they can make viable suits while raising their skills. For sure those items are not to be used on the ultimate suit, unless they don't add some way to remove cursed and cannot be repaired...
     
  4. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    Not sure why cured or brittle even matters to most players, with the vast majority playing tram only chars that are mages/tamers you shouldn't be taking that much damage unless you're going afk while fighting anyways, and who cares if it's cursed, not like it's going to be looted from you (and at the drop rate i've been seeing, who cares even then, in a hour i can have 20 more of them lined up ready to go). Heck, even on my archer i dont bother pofing the armor before imbue, the 30 or so durability basicly lasts me forever. I could easily see being able to build suits twice as strong as anything currently available with this new system
     
  5. Mirt

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    Not all the items are cursed and some of the brittle and cannot be repaired ones have no durability. Yes probably 80% will not be all that useful, but the 20%...
     
  6. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    try to get the shimmering keys with a melee character, your brittle things reach 0/255 in less than 30 minutes if they are 255 :D

    About cursed, there are a lot of monsters that uses to loot items, and certain monsters are big bosses that can't be killed so easily to take your items back...
     
  7. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    yeah - no - I agree with raptor

    leave it as is for awhile. its doing a few things by itself.

    1) populating that area heavily (good for seige pkers!)

    2) people will be spending lots of fun time together checking out the new system.

    3) isnt there a mechanism to remove curse and brittle? so once u get that item that is awesome then remove those bad parts.

    lorddog
     
  8. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    All items should decay rather fast (including artifacts et al) and insurance should be removed. I applauded insurance when it came out. I was wrong, it ruined everything...
     
  9. Mirt

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    There is no plan to remove curse that was already hashed out. As for the others...
     
  10. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    They only need to add durability like I first stated to jewels.

    Those crying about the grind till a useable uber is found just need to build an Imbuer and do some unraveling.

    Removing the a curse after some long grinding till your cross eyed quest MmmaaaaaayyyyBE OK. Removing the brittle would be one those dumb assed things like if it is live now on a real shard and the jewelry durability thing is not fixed. It is the no brainer things repete till nauseum and released live when brought up in boards that is confusing.

    Want to help new players with weapons and armor. Add an embriodered/inlaided option on all crafting tools that make armor and weapons. 25% of what ever is used to make an item valorite ingots are used also. The effect is only any embriodered/inlaided GM crafted weapon or armor has 225 durability. This will allow vendor sales to return with the Imbue buffs.

    The new Shame system is fine. Needs to stay as a grind till the rare prize is found and go back for another. Speaking of rare prizes I still need to earn my moonstone jewelry so fix that also.

    And there is a plan to remove cursed from items. Just not the old Cursed Arty.
     
  11. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    It's so funny to see the different attitudes of posters when we know they are a.) a thief or b.) play Siege in regards to throw away items.

    O.P. - You are right on many issues. I share many of your same fears with this new loot system. While there may not be as many people that come in to agree with you on this you can be sure they exist. Production shards will lose interest in this if the drop rate of the pristine items is low or seems unreachable. It will give those people with lots of time and dedication a new way to make lots of money though. All in all I believe this to be a bad idea(for production shards.) It's going to create a new breed of haves and have nots.
     
  12. Shelleybean

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    I see your point and I agree, but I would like to offer a different opinion. I probably won’t have much use for the brittle/cannot be repaired, cursed items either. I will most likely unravel these items. However I think that I will enjoy the challenge of looking for high end “clean” pieces. I have terrific suits now, but the possibility of raising the bar, even if it’s remote, is ok with me.
     
  13. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    It sounds like there is a plan to eventually introduce a method for removing undesirable properties from items. It might help if the devs could just confirm this idea without going into details just so people will relax a bit and be willing to give the new changes a try.

    Also, I suspect that folks who are willing to run around wearing cursed items will also be the same people who are smart enough to stockpile similar items to fall back on if they lose something. You can also take advantage of mannequins to keep preassembled backup suits ready and waiting if you lose a really critical uninsurable items. You can also spend a few dollars at the game code store and buy an Undertaker's Staff to help with retrieving items that drop to a corpse.

    I'm uncertain as of yet, however, whether the Undertaker Staffs will retrieve items looted by a monster, but they could be handy for retrieving other noninsured stuff. I think there are also other things you can put in your pack that a monster will tend to loot first. This thread from August has a few ideas in it: http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/247872-looting-monsters-i-e-monsters-loot-you.html. Perhaps the devs can also give some consideration to some of the ideas presented in that thread to make it a bit easier to figure out which monster has your stuff so you can go after it and, as someone suggested in that thread, have monsters drop any looted items before they despawn.

    To me, the bottom line is that if you want to take advantage of an uninsurable or flimsy item, then you will take the necessary steps to mitigate whatever "risk" you face by using such an item. It may not be as tedious or onerous as folks expect and this change will surely give the folks who dare to use such items an additional thrill or sense of adventure when they set out. A "taste of the old days" or a "taste of Siege" (take your pick). Not a bad thing, in my opinion, for keeping things a bit more lively.

    This change may also attract some of the folks who left because of AoS. By now, they realize an EA-run classic shard is unlikely to happen. They may also not wish to engage in PvP and therefore Siege/Mugen are not a good choice for them. But they may find running around in some cursed, brittle, unrepairable items gives just enough risk/edge/whatever you want to call it to their game play to come back and try post-AoS Ultima Online one more time.