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Now that Sakkkarah is gone, who is in charge of fiction?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GalenKnighthawke, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    At the end of the last calendar year, I had the following exchange at this UO House of Commons:


    Same question I asked then, but different names.

    Who's in charge of fiction, story arcs, and the like now?

    -Galen's player
     
  2. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    The janitor maybe?


    Can't wait to GM garbagery.
     
  3. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Seems like the EMs are taking a greater role in the specifics, as directed by Mesanna. Just a guess.
     
  4. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    Its an enigma wrapped in a mystery...
     
  5. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Like he said above, the Janitor
    *RUNS AND HIDES*
     
  6. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    lol. Well, Atlantic's EMs are awesome - I can't speak for Chessy. :p
     
  7. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    So are Great Lakes's.

    And if that's the answer, that's the answer. I'd have quibbles with it as a policy, I'd argue the game needs a manufacturer-run meta-storyline. (Not running all the time, as that would get tiring, but some of the time.)

    But if that is the answer (meaning that fiction is almost totally going to be done by the Event Moderators from hence forward), then I figure we should know.

    Hell, we should know regardless of what the answer is.

    -Galen's player
     
  8. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    As it has ever, ever been. We are in charge of the fiction.
     
  9. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    The proof is in your post.

    /just kidding :p
     
  10. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah, verily.
    *Nope, could not pass it up*
     
  11. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    *kicks Syrus* Dont go talkin bout our Ems. Nut-uh Girlfriend! :stretcher:

    *smiles* I was talking about Mesanna :p *Runs and hides*

    *Love you M*
     
  12. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Assuming by "we" you mean the players this is partially true.

    Especially for RPers.

    However, there are many things players are simply bad at doing. Invasions, for example. Very difficult to imagine how players can duplicate a mass-scale invasion of monsters that lasts for months. Rebuilding Magincia is another example.

    I'd also suggest there's a pretty wide spectrum of things that it's simply more appropriate for the manufacturer to do....But even if you disagree with me there, it's indisputable that there's a lot of things we as players cannot do by game mechanics.

    Hence....We need there to be in-game fiction, meta-storylines, etc.

    -Galen's player

    PS: PLEASE DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE EM PROGRAM.
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not like it if this is what is happening.......

    I much prefer regular, non-EM Events.
     
  14. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Which shards do you play?
     
  15. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    The best GM events were the ones where GMs played the antagonists. Like when Keeonean led attacks on Yew and teleported around and would escape in the end. That made him much more fun to play against. Back in those days, the events were a lot of fun. That was the same era as Juo'Nar in the Trinsic invasions. Where players witnessed things Minax taking the Black Neclace from Malabelle, or even much earlier when a player encountered Juo'Nar before he became a Liche and was told that he had what he was after (a necklace that was taken from 3 fictional characters at a shrine, per a story), and things were shakin' an' bakin'. Or the time we all helped move a captured FOA leader from the Trinsic jails to the Yew jails, being attacked all the way along the roads by GM played FOA leaders and mobs of orcs controlled by GMs.

    It was all just so much more lively and entertaining.
     
  16. roninaxx

    roninaxx Journeyman
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    Sakkkarah left when did this happen?
     
  17. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest


    THIS THIS THIS
     
  18. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    And you know, we did it because we didn't want to miss it. Not for any "drops".
     
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    If the implication is that people do EM events for the drops?

    Some do, I guess.

    But I honestly don't think most do.

    There's a dedicated group of folks who work EM Malachi's events on Great Lakes, and we are there every week whether there's a drop or not. (I don't think there are drops on a regular schedule, but seems to average out to one every 3 to 6 weeks, on an irregular basis. So it's hard, indeed impossible, to predict when one will occur and when one will not. If you're doing an EM event solely for a drop, you're stupid, because the odds are strongly against you.)

    And interestingly, though some of those regulars are RPers, not all are. Some are non-RPers who, whether they realize it or not, are engaging in RP.

    I can only assume that EM Elizabella will obtain a regular crew as well, as she's been doing well so far.

    But at any rate...I would still like to know who's in charge of game-wide fiction now.

    -Galen's player
     
  20. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Problem in those days is the FoA was really evil... because they started the gold selling operations which destroyed the game.

    Thats also known history, and why it ended before it even began, I know because I wore those robes back in the day, I was the youngest amongst them and the only one who refused to profit from that "opportunity"...

    Hopefully now someone can have power without becoming corrupt, but with all that experience I have, I can still only see me.
     
  21. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Fred? :lol:
     
  22. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    The EMs are doing a bang up job with the tools at their disposal. These people are trying to do the impossible. That is to breath life into a game that's devoted it's recent history to everything against their cause...that being item greed and nothing more.
     
  23. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    didn't get the quote treb... ? rolleyes:
     
  24. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Of course I did. It was just a little joke.

    It's been a long time since someone called me Treb. If I know you under another name, send me a PM!
     
  25. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    While I believe the EMs should run the local fiction on their shards, and be involved with their RP Community's fiction, UO as a game DOES need over-arching metafiction.

    The Warriors of Destiny (Shadowlord) plotline was metafiction, and was half-assed at best. Months between plot developments, events that were shelved and never done because they had to rush SA out the door (hence the gaping holes in the plot).... Not to mention the horribly contradictory fiction surrounding the past expansions.

    UO needs a loremaster (someone who knows past UO events and general Ultima lore) to direct the fiction, close metafiction plot holes, and give UO an general plotline with events and regularly posted fiction.

    Ideally this would be the person in charge of the EMs, i.e. Mesanna, and this would be their main focus as a job (so no split time doing other stuff, unless you threw in community relations type things).

    As it stands, the EMs have a huge role to fill - and I think we can all agree that they are doing quite well (Especially on GL :thumbup1:) Should Mythic be brain-dead enough to even _consider_ terminating their contracts...... :gun::dunce:
     
  26. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    This just backs up my argument about EMs and favoritism. No one should feel THIS close to an EM...
     
  27. Faerunner

    Faerunner Lore Master
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    This.

    The rebuilding of Magincia is the first time in months I've seen an event arc actually spoken of as though it will have a closing. I barely paid attention to the whole Casca arc, tbqh, because there was so little of it that I could participate in. A lot of it seemed to be storytelling on the stratics news pages, rather than in-game news criers and player activities. We could have at least seen Dawn appear and helped her overthrow him or something... (or did that happen, and I just missed it?).

    Yeah, this game needs a definite controlled arc. The EMs are doing a pretty decent job overall but they can't be expected to carry an entire story on their own shoulders, let alone do it in a way that allows all the shards to participate the way EA-Mythic can.
     
  28. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    This happened, more or less, on GL due to the actions of our EMs. EM Malachi incorporated Casca's reign into many, MANY weeks of events (He has run a weekly event for a year now. Talk about dedication!).

    The Mythic mandated events felt hollow and hurredly slapped together compared to the EM crafted plotline. The EMs did their best to fill in gaps, but what Mythic gave them was crap and was missing key plot events (now plot holes).

    The fact that Magincia has been neglected for.. 3 years now?... is inexcusable laziness.
     
  29. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
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    Buzz kill... she was good
     
  30. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Considering it wasn't exactly buzzing with people when it was around, I can understand why the Britannia Council have decided against not rushing its rebuild. :D
     
  31. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Actually it sounds like you missed a lot.

    Like a whole lot.

    http://www.uoguide.com/Warriors_of_Destiny

    -Galen's player
     
  32. siyeng0

    siyeng0 Guest

    I don't think he even plays.

    He might have a shard all to himself, consisting of an 800x600 picture made with MS Paint and InsideUO, and when the time comes to "play," he just sits there staring at it and thinking of new things to complain about.
     
  33. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    lol :lol:
     
  34. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    Totally Signed!! SO much fun, these events were!!
     
  35. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Wow.... so many good and bad points to reply to ...... where to start....

    Lets begin with GarthGrey...

    So you don't think that anyone should feel close to their EM's or vise versa?

    I would hope that after a YEAR of me constantly being in attendance at the EM events that eventually my EM would get to know my character in some way... And I would hope that he would use my characters alignment, involvement and name into fiction of my shard. It adds to the "atmosphere" of the game if you will to a role-player to feel they are a part of a community and a recognizable one at that.

    I know our EM recognizes several of the long time attendees... Knowing their position in the role-play community as well as knowing those outside the community that attend... That in my opinion is part of what makes an EXCEPTIONAL EM.

    Being able to participate in the story arc's, the ability to "effect" the outcomes... are all part of the joy in the participation... Getting an item is nice... but not necessary... it doesn't have to "do" anything.... but a specially named item as a memento of the event is always welcome and nice. I would prefer they didn't ever give any "uberish" items that had any effect on PvM or PvP.... But a sash or cloak or some similar item that is named is nice... a trinket if you will... does not harm anything.

    I know folk are into the "sale" of unique items and all... and there should be a balance between giving out items and whatnot... I'm more concerned though about the plot... the fiction .... and I like to see the shards becoming more and more unique... such as the decoration of the banks.... (though I still wish I were better at outside game design so I could have submitted something..... FAR better for my own shard *rolls eyes*.....)..... but I think things like the Fairgrounds..... the bank..... and other things being unique to a shard and being designed by those who live there are wonderful additions to the shards and things of this nature ought to be encouraged.... as well as the building of communities...

    I wish there was a way to incorporate "EVIL" allied guilds more into the fiction... giving them more tools and ways to "stop" good.... or to do "evil".... that effected the game more... as things are now it's difficult for evil to participate...

    Perhaps with a revamping of the Factions into something that isn't so easily abused..... and some curb of the use of cheats and 3rd party programs.... Events can go to Fel without too much griefing, though I doubt it.

    And I whole heartedly agree with Martyna.... some large scale fictional arc needs to be maintained, that the EM's can use in the weekly storlines. And it needs to be something that moves on... not stagnates for months on end....

    I liked what I heard from Cal..... to a point.... however I'm still hesitant to believe a word of it..... course this does come from the man who called me a carebear.... and I'm still not to pleased by that. *narrows eyes*... but I'm hoping he keeps to his word and dedication to community in UO.

    I'm not holding my breath though... instead I'm going to continue to participate in weekly events... enjoy every min of them.... and pray that EA doesn't pull the plug on my fun.
     
  36. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    You mean it's easy for evil to participate...

    some people make a living out of selling virtual crap...

    This is evil at it's upmost self-realisation.
     
  37. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    I love EM-events.
    Been to one on drachenfelds...two female EM's.
    They listened to the people, threw in a few jokes. (was mostly in german , they even translated aspecialy for us)
    It was pretty sweet.

    Back in the old days they didn't hand out free gifts...
    These days they seem to hand out gifts...probably to attract more people.
    But then again , back then the towncrier was actualy usefull...
    Now it just says 'check out the tokuno treasures' and nothing else...


    I love invasions and big battles.
    So bring it on...
     
  38. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I was trying to post this in another thread that was closed, so I'll post it here because it's more to do with the way things used to be and the way I wish they'd get back to.
    --------------

    Ahu, despite the betrayal by some, those were great days. We had some of it play out on GL. Someone discovered a secret meeting place for the FOA in a house on Bucs Den. So some guilds got together and we all went there to catch them. I don't recall everything, but I remember as we waited for them all to show up, someone had placed a Communication Crystal inside the house earlier (or behind it) and we listened to the FOA leaders talking. They knew we were there, but nothing they could do. As gates opened for FOA allies to come to the meeting, we nailed them with spells and arrows. Then a battle broke out, we won, and I think that's where we captured an FOA leader who later was escorted from the Trinsic Jail to Yew's Jail for trial. It was a wildly good time.

    Back in those days UO was played out, not just run. I was in a guild called The Eldar, and I always suspected that one of our guildies was a GM because he always knew things, not that he was giving it all out or anything. He's the one who got me started on the story of the Black Necklace, which I posted here on Stratics when I was a reporter some years ago. A very deep story that spanned years of UO game play and official stories.

    According to this guy, Juo'Nar actually carried the Black Necklace. But lot's of others knew this, and those who did all wanted to get their hands on it. This was Juo'Nar the Liche, when he attacked Trinsic as part of Minax's multi-city attack. From what I gathered, Juo'Nar was not supposed to die in Trinsic, at least not at that point. But the GMs underestimated the strength of the players. At least, I think that's what happened, but my memory combined with the complications of things in those days could be leading me wrong.
    When Juo'Nar was killed, I asked this guild mate (who I suspected of being a GM) what happened to the Black Necklace. He told me "the authorities took it." So I asked why he would even carry it if they weren't going to let players get it, and he said that "Juo'Nar wasn't supposed to die tonight." And laughed it off.

    Despite the problems of the past, I really wish UO would get back to that kind of game play. Where what happens happens. Not predetermined stories, and we just go kill some Steroid Elemental or something.
     
  39. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Oh man! I'm gonna have to go find and dig out
    my old screen shots of the trinsic invasion and post them.
    If I still have them.
     
  40. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Warning: Not proofread (no time).

    Buried in a locked thread is this post from the Producer, which seems relevant to the concerns in this thread (if not the actual specific question). (I have no idea why this thread was locked, I didn't explore it fully to find out, and I'm not going to.)

    As I have never linked to a specific post before and I'm not certain it'll work properly, I will also quote the text of the post:
    (Not sure exactly what he was responding to...Probably a question similar to the one in this thread, I guess? Or at least expressing similar concerns.

    Interesting.

    On a related note, I have to point out that the use of the Trinsic Invasion scenario from years back, in an attempt to bolster an argument that UO used to be more interactive storyline-wise, is extremely odd to me.

    Because the devs from the time had specifically cited that as an example of a storyline that we as players could not impact. The big climax, they have stated, was timed and the outcome was pre-determined. We as players were supposedly just there to participate, in the sense of contributing to the fight, not participate in the sense of impact the actual outcome.

    Interesting, eh?

    I didn't participate in that fight, so I have no idea how accurate that assessment was. I was playing at the time but had no idea the fight was going on. Events back then, it's easy to forget, weren't announced or publicized well. It was very easy to miss both "meta fiction" events like Trinsic, and the Seer Quests. I was forever barely missing both. Things are, I would argue, much better now on that scale.

    At any rate, the lessons of the Trinsic event, the devs from the time stated, led to the scenario system we had some years back. The idea was to have an outcome that the players could determine, but where the results wouldn't be a flat-out disaster. They used the example of a scenario wherein if the players lost, Skara Brae would turn into a dungeon.

    Some players, probably most, would want to rescue Skara, but some would like the idea of there being a monster spawn inside a city. So it's almost, if not quite, win-win.

    As an example that wasn't hypothetical, let's take the "Plague of Despair" scenario. Quoting from the article I linked to:

    Also let us take the Magincia Invasion. It was possible to "lose" the climax to this event.

    My personal view if anyone cares? (Assuming anyone is still reading.)

    There is a place for events that we as players can effect the outcome of, where our shortcomings will cause some great loss to occur.

    But there is also I would suggest a place for meta-fiction scenarios, where the storyline proceeds and we're swept up in the arc, just like the NPCs such as Queen Dawn and Queen Zhah are.

    Why should our characters be somehow immune to the march of history, the wrecks of elements, the clash of worlds, the sad wings of destiny, and the quiet call of fate?

    One of UO's greatest strengths is its ability to capture many different elements. We have PvP with no purpose, PvP with purpose, PvM with no purpose but personal purpose, RP, PvM with purpose, quests, events....

    Our events and fiction should reflect this diversity as well.

    There's a place for events unique to each shard (EM events), game-wide events that we can impact (Plague, Magincia), game-wide events that we can just participate in without really impacting (Trinsic invasion, Warriors of Destiny).

    They can all flourish here.

    -Galen's player
     
  41. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I'd take that slightly further - not just 'shortcomings' in the sense of not doing whatever objective the developers built in to the event, but I'd like more options than a straight 'either/or' where we can make certain things happen through our actions - using the example you had, not just if we get a restored Yew or not, but what form (good, evil, chaos, order, city or scattered 'town' as it always was) the restored place might take.
     
  42. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    Fiction??? Who is in charge of gardening??? :D

    But, back to the subject matter. I agree with this Fae and Martyna on this. Very much agree. I would also like to see the EM gift for all go the way of the Dodo.

     
  43. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Censorship.


    Agreed, since every meta-fiction arc has a specific place to ago, and yes the end IS set in stone.

    Yew and Magincia had a somewhat more interactive elements where they did have conditions which must be met. However, we all know that Yew isn't a swamp anymore... Magincia was MEANT to be destroyed, hence the greed-inducing rubble. Playing a Virtuous character was pointless there because you honestly couldn't make a difference and keep the city from getting destroyed - you weren't supposed to.

    Magincia in Felucca on Great Lakes 'lost'. Will they remember that when they start the new arc? (i.e. it should be infested with undead, since Draconi said that would be the fail result.)

    We knew we couldn't fail in the Warriors of Destiny arc, at ANY point because it was all geared for very specific plotpoints.

    Metafiction drives the world arcs: content updates, expansions, etc.

    The EMs give us the interactivity, the ability to change outcomes - and thus the plotlines. Granted good wins 99% of the time... Yay good! :grouphug:

    As for items at events... They are mementos and many enjoy them. So a few twits sell them for obscene gold... Eh, what can you do?
     
  44. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I haven't had a lot of luck digging through the Archives section to find old information. However, I did find this old post of mine (link below) from January 2008 listing which shards still had functional boat teleporters in Magincia at the time and which shards had no boat teleporter or what they had didn't work. The shards in this last group (i.e., Balhae, Catskills, Formosa, GL, Lake Austin, Legends, and Siege Perilous) were, I believe, the shards who lost the battle at the Magincia moongate. I'm uncertain what Napa's status was at the time because I couldn't get to Magincia with my newbie character because of old EM-type structures in Trinsic that she couldn't get past.)

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=382508&postcount=9

    I've also been wondering what became of the old stickied U.Hall thread with screen shots of special structures in Magincia that the developers promised to restore at a later date. I still have the screenshots I took on Baja in Fel and Trammel. Hopefully other people kept the ones they made and posted for other shards. I'm very curious about how restoration of those structures will be worked into shard-specific fiction. (My gut feeling is there will be no restoration of these structures and the excuse will be that all the coding to support it has been lost. I hope I'm wrong.)
     
  45. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Tina,

    Only the Fel side lost on GL, the Tram side won within a few hours.

    Only one building in Magincia Tram was blessed, the Magincia Library & Museum... It was briefly destroyed and then quickly rebuilt after some apparently pointed words were had with Draconi...

    I'm doubting other shards were so lucky.. :sad4:
     
  46. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    My recollection on this is fuzzy, but I thought you had to win the battle in both Fel and Tram for a true "win" for your shard.
     
  47. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    True enough....But I tried anyway. I endured a lot of crap for it, though.

    What I meant, though, was the climax with the Moongate.

    Really??

    I didn't remember that, I just figured the result was unknown, and for the time being you couldn't use the moongate to get to Magincia, this causing, at least on Siege, Factioners to have to use boats.

    Yes, but we could fail at specific points. We could never free a city, and thus that city's Faction Sigil wouldn't be released in Factions, at least not early. (I forget the details on that.)

    Yep.

    :party:

    :party:

    I like it when the good guys win...Not like we're unscathed by our victories, though. EM Malachi puts the characters through a lot.

    And even when we win, our actions impact things in various ways.....Remember that prisoner we failed to secure, or the day that Dark Samurai dude gave the poison elemental thingie what it wanted? Or that time when we took the "hard path" and denied the Demonic Librarian what he wanted?

    Hey, that's me!!!!!!

    :party:

    What? I roleplay an antiques dealer!

    -Galen's player
     
  48. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I'd like to pose this question again, on the off-chance that EA will answer it before the HoC on Wednesday, thus saving us a question.

    -Galen's player
     
  49. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I know full and well that someone asked the "who is in charge of fiction" question at the HoC....Wasn't answered, though.

    So I ask agian, here.

    Perhaps I'm the only one who is curious, but I doubt it.

    -Galen's player