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Now that the anti-cheat lip service is over...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Widow Maker, Oct 10, 2010.

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  1. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    How are you folks doing? Are you flying around face pwning everyone again?

    I absolutely love being outrun by someone on foot when I am mounted and pinging 30. I'll leave it up to you, should we all just take the dive into the polluted waters? It seems that the pool is almost full now but there is always room for 1 more. :thumbup1:
     
  2. Ls Jax Ls

    Ls Jax Ls Visitor

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    Saying that someone can outrun you on foot is just ridiculous...let's at least be realistic here. Yes, a very high number of PvPer's use speedhacks because they know everyone else does. Until they can remove every single speedhack from UO, you have two choices: either take 15 seconds to equalize the playing field, or spend 15 hours complaining about it. Your choice.
     
  3. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    I love it when they outrun you on foot AND get ahead of you to place a field .. and you have no lag. NO cheating going on there.. move along... nothing to see.
     
  4. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    Oh **** guys, nobody told me there'd be hyperbole in here! *fist pump*
     
  5. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    just fyi... pinging 30 isn't amazing in uo. a great ping is about half that.
     
  6. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Happens all the time on Napa Jax. It's a near daily topic of conversation in my guilds vent about the same people doing the same thing. Everyone might be correct in that there is nothing to see and nothing going on but when you have many different players using a varity of ISP's to connect and everyone says the same thing I think it is above chance.

    How's that spread sheet working for ya Cal?
     
  7. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    The last week, I have been doing some faction pvp and collecting pictures and reports...

    Using candelabra to block every tile inside the faction hq is ok... the rules say that we can block every tile... no need to leave a path. (unlike outside faction areas where you get banned if you dont leave a path open)

    My problem is that the people using the candelabra are running OVER them.

    Proof


    Sad when you do this in Factions... really sad.

    No skill, so you have to cheat.
     
  8. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Your proof hyperlink links to a private forum.
     
  9. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    I am thinking this person has the actual right solutions. I ping 30..even if someone pings 15, there is no way they are going to off screen me, with them on foot, within 1 current screen and be clean. I have always been a proponent of clean PvP, but it looks like the Devs have given us no other choice than to "muddy up".

    Let's just do one of two things..either enforce the "rules" (LLLOOOLLL) or take the leash off. :thumbup1:
     
  10. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Hey Cal..alot of folks are asking...

    How has that spreadsheet, you touted so much about, been working for you?

    Let me personally tell you....LOL...not working so well for us. Good job there son. Come to Sonoma and take a look after 8pm MST. Ask for the GM reports, so you can get a list of the names. You can get a first hand look at the results you have personally inspired. :thumbup1:

    :popcorn:
     
  11. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I still havent seen anything like this. Last time I saw things like this was the early years in the game. Now I just see artifacts. For example everytime I log into 2 accounts when one moves to other side the other accounts still sees him moving even though the account that moved already is at the destination. I know this is the opposite of what you see but thats the extent Ive seen anything in that direction. I ping ok but it's configurations and tweaks I do to my connections,and system for UO that is more important. I guess thats why I probably don't experience it like others do.
     
  12. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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  13. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Pff, you are too much in Felucca.
    Come to Trammel and you will agree that speedhacking does not exist there.
    :p
     
  14. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Has it ever crossed your mind that the player who is out running you is on the best gamer machine with top ping? I mean the other day a friend of my son came over with a new comp that blew me away when he finished hooking it up to the net. The speed was unreal when he and my son finished loading UO and WoW to his new hd. The new gamer computers, keyboards, mice, and T1 conections add up. Not to mention the EC client has built in movement freedom that is not found in classic. I understand your fustrated at the guy who looks to be cheating(Im not saying they are not but...) is there a possibility they are just doing it the equipment way??
     
  15. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    LOL..only you and Llewen would try to muddy up this subject with trying to relate skill training to PvP.

    Given your crap level of PvP skill..it is no surprise. :thumbup1:
     
  16. How is that muddy'ing up this subject? Seems to me that you are saying you want to get rid of cheats that you don't like, but want to use and admit to using cheats that benefit you. How does that even make a bit of sense?

    If you use cheats, don't complain about others using different cheats.
     
  17. Ls Jax Ls

    Ls Jax Ls Visitor

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    PvP is competitive, which means using a speedhack gives you an advantage over other players. Scripting skills does not.
     
  18. *ahem*
    So ...
    You had a "top end" comp, hooked up and running ...
    what did it look like when ya played the >old versus new< ...?

    Surely ya did some >testing< ?

    Just asking ...
    since it is not mentioned ...
    :lol:
     
  19. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - You are wrong. PvP is competitive, which means skill does matter and illegally scripting skills is acquiring the skills illegally ~ hence why illegally gaining skills is cheating.
    1+1=2
    Cheating is bad.

    (Cal has stated multiple times that they are going after illegal 3rd party usage first and will be tackling speedhacking next, after, following their campaign against cheating by way of illegal 3rd party usage.)
     
  20. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    That's not skill training. You just admitted to being a proponent of massive widespread scripting. Not the much more accepted practice of scripting skills that involve tedium and no material gain.
     
  21. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    "Not the much more accepted practice of scripting skills that involve tedium and no material gain"

    Bingo.

    Not once has it ever been said that speed hacking gives an advantage to mining / lunberjacking / etc .

    Speed hacking destroys competetive PvP. It should be the primary focus of enforcement.

    The majority couldn't give a tinker's damn if someone is script mining...
     
  22. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    I always own the absolute top level equipment for my gaming pleasure. As an engineer for the major telecom in the west / mid-west, I also have the top level dedicated fiber connection. No "considerations" need be made here. I have the pleasure of "knowing". No guess work involved here.
     
  23. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    I tought that I'd find you guys in here too, I am so intuitive it scares me.

    AesSedai and Fayled Dhreams ; two of the most "mystical" players of UO... arguing about...

    speed hacks ?

    One issue that is so easily fixed it could kill me by laughter.

    What is the urgent need not to make everyone equal, fear of creating an even worse exploitable flaw ? Or simply because the time lord said so ?

    Be my guest. At least widow-maker is being honest, he likes to kill people and he's not able to play ; thus he complains.

    I complain for totally different reasons ; I have been one of the first to use speedhack in the day and I know that its always been working, I have no idea if its being better now because I am too rusty in PVP to do anything anymore anyways... but I know it's working still because the reaction of your char to lag would be totally different, its an old system it would need to be logged to be fixed.

    Just like you add a mod to a car and then you have to hack into the computer interface... they show kids PG 13 movies with people that do that nowadays...

    Point is, I know how to fix speedhacks and third party without requiring any extra computing power albeit few numerical data transfers. The only thing it would affect is a little bit more CPU usage on the part of opt-in players who can handle it and HATES HACKING. Oh man, I think we won't have any trouble finding them who can put 5% more CPU in.

    They don't want to... I almost just said what it was anyways, and I don't care, I'm tired of this.
     
  24. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Until that pic is publicly viewable you need to re-edit. Even if it was, i can walk through locked down chests in your hosue right now if i wanted to and it would look like i was walking through it, Its not hard. Anyone that has played this game long enough can do it.

    QYB
     
  25. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    how is it so easily fixed?
     
  26. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    THINK P2P.

    Uo programmer who made the wisp AI deserves even more honor. This is basic stuff that some programmers I knew in the day did.

    When I discovered the shadowloop bug which allowed me to repeat for example the skill steal 100 times in one command I didn't think oops... I tought ahh, now I get the rest of the program, the fast recall, the speedhack.

    Of course I am talking about discontinued (I think) UOE. When I found this bug I also had found the fix to all hacking ; if you understand the shadowloop you understand how to prevent it. I should never have released that bug to the skunks ; but after being fired and laughed at by EA directly I started learning C++, and it became quite clear ; and I wreaked havock and the GM never came to ban me, despite me trying to get myself caught ON PURPOSE. I also sent many e-mails to EA telling I was ready to report the biggest exploitable flaw in UO AND the fix. The answer I got was we are working on the problem don't worry, heh.

    If you think a little further it will se so easy that you'll want to hit yourself for not thinking of it ; I'd be hard pressed to spoonfeed the answers to you however. It would be making fun of your intelligence, one that I knowfullwell you capable of.

    You will see, it wasn't a hack just for UO, many server clients used that protocol in the day, which hackers slammed down on.

    I repeat myself ; I have never profited ONE DIME from this potentially multi-billion flaw. I even let my server birth rares decay.
     
  27. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Since the team has completely changed since then perhaps you should share your knowledge and insight with the current team?
     
  28. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    I think you might be right... I cannot expect you to understand how deep my distress goes about this issue. It makes me feel so deeply rejected that I cry about it sometimes.

    It was ignored when I was about to become a seer (I was 13 y.o.), I was then ignored again as a companion ! Part of my job for EA was to report hacks too, and they did accept many of my bug fixes, not this one. Then I was ignored again when siege launched and I tried to prevent them from having it spoiled by hackers. I told them they should at least apply my script (I had it all worked up in C++ even, it could have been adapted) to this server ; but they answered they would not work with a third party application to resolve a bug. After that my mails were ignored, perhaps they feared a trojan in the application ? But I doubt it... They could have done it if they wanted to. Again you are right maybe the current team isn't corrupted, there is much less money at stake these days.

    Part of this goes so deep inside even my player and roleplay storyline ; that I feel the guardian will prevent the fix from going public anyways. The guardian knows how it will affect also past timelines, it is one of the last things I expect to happen. This was the time in history where computer scripting was rivaling magic in scope, it was a very dark and gloomy time in human history.

    The reason is simple, it would be a very big, and very how do you say that... embarassing ? revelation for the whole internet community. Call me paranoid, but I wouldn't give a high price of my head if I were to release this directly... it would put many known UO figures in the quagmire and trouble the life of many innocent bystanders.

    This is one dragon that should not be awoken in my opinion. But if you insist for a hack free UO, I can provide that, over chat if I am convinced I am speaking with one dev member who is integral with the time lord. This is my only condition which is not hard to accomodate.
     
  29. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    ^Umm I'm not sure what that drama is all about....

    But, we had someone the other night who got over a line of candelabras and was confused in vent how he did so, so there may be a candelabra bug.

    I think the majority of "speed hacking" accusations were cases of differing pings/hardware. As I used to think about half of everyone I fought speedhacked as they were all insanely fast compared to me. But with a simple video card upgrade I'm now able to outrun most. So, that said, I believe very few are actually speedhacking and most were mistaken accusations.

    However, since my upgrade, and since my realization most were just faster because my hardware sucked, I've witnessed an enemy faction character in stone form moving WAY too fast for being on foot. I don't think he was moving mounted speed but it was pretty clear what was going on with the speed he was moving. I need to set up fraps to catch him.
     
  30. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    LOLwat?
     
  31. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    Dude, anyone who has any ties to anyone at EA knows you are really full of it. Keep posting and Ill need my hip-waders.
     
  32. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Most of the people that complain about these issues have computers too good to run UO, there are not that much pvpers in fel anymore, but if you go there sometimes you can see people who go "insanely fast" complaining about other people that go "astoundingly fast" and trying to band up together to catch what they call a speedhacker, they even take alliances between factions sometimes.

    I have not personally seen one that I can tell for sure so I am extrapolating upon what I have been hearing in the last year of playing. I have heard hundreds complain about them, and it's definately not noob players that cannot ping their server or know exactly how much more FPS their computer can handle.

    Back 10 years ago I was able to outrun most people with a 56k modem and a P90 with very low memory ; it was running smooth. The only way back then to compete with higher connections which cost a fortune was to use that hack and let me tell you it indeed worked and never stopped working until the day I quit.

    It would be a total fallacy to think that today a computer 10x faster than back then will make you run 10 times faster today. In fact is might be a very small increase, more along 10%.
     
  33. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    You amongst all Arcus... Mr not quite the eggman.

    Keep snapping your elastic bands ? Grandpa ?

    Rofl... who cares about me right ?

    Thanks for that jest.
     
  34. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    LOL. Honestly, you have some emotional issues. Crying about a game? Seriously?

    You are right, Ill never be half the person Eggman is. No argument there.

    You don't make any sense. I don't know if your post seems odd because English is not your first language or because you are posting about nonsense. If its the former then sorry but I can't really tell.

    You cares about you? Who cares about me? Beyond my monthly subscription fee, EA does not.

    I have no respect for you since you openly admit to using cheats and telling others how as well. That shows so much about the kind of person you are so you lying about all this "I tried to help EA but they rejected me so I cried myself to sleep" junk is just a hunch.

    As far as the grandpa comment, LOL. Odds are im in better shape physically then you will ever be so whatever on that one. lol.
     
  35. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    He's just "roleplaying" the boards for his own amusement. It's obvious that he's not a roleplayer, he doesn't quite get it. I mean, Devs playing the Guardian when cheats are involved? He's mocking roleplayers. He also knows too much about UO's past to not be someone who's a dedicated player. Thinks he's playing with our heads, thinks he's smart, isn't really.

    UO putting anti cheat stuff on player comps? Heh, good one, Ahu. That was pretty funny, seriously.
     
  36. Dude. Just post the problem and fix for everyone to see and shed some light on it.

    I dont get the drama. Put the fix out in public and someone at EA will do something with it.

    Whats all this secretive BS? You either have an fix or you dont. Posting fixes isnt illegal.

    Spend some of your energy in a positive way. Dedicate a website to the fix or something.

    If not... its time to move on a leave UO forever. Just pick something to do and stop waffling around...post the fix or move along to new horizons. Its not good for your health.
     
  37. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Folks this thread was kicked off by posters who have actively posted in support of cheating, and at every turn have actively campaigned against 3rd party cheat detection. What I do know is a lot of people in the past two or three weeks now have had their accounts suspended. Have I actually noticed a difference in pvp?

    The answer to that is yes, however, there have been a number of players on my shard that basically stopped playing when 3rd party cheat detection was announced and started playing again when the suspensions started being handed out. It's only a guess, but I think they think they have evaded the anti-cheat campaign, and they can now go back to business as usual. We'll see if they are right. My guess is they aren't, and sometime within the next month or two I am going to see a few of them take forcible vacations as well.

    Let's analyze what is being said here. First off he's saying it's impossible to enforce the rules, and then I think it is pretty clear that he is saying that the anti-cheat measures should be removed. Which of course presents an interesting problem in logic. If the anti-cheat measures have been completely ineffectual, why would anyone who wanted to cheat care if they were removed or not?

    While the logic may be flawed this little quote pretty much exposes the entire point of this thread, which is to get the devs to back down from their stand against cheating because the truth is, it is working. If it wasn't, the cheaters wouldn't care. Of course it isn't perfect, and all the cheaters aren't gone from the game, but it has been a critical step, and the most significant progress that we have seen against UO's culture of cheating since the game was first released.

    :cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:

    (that's me, chearing the devs on)
     
  38. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Ahuaeyjnkxs is a player and Stratics is his stage. The sooner folks learn this, the less confused and upset they will be. Trying to convince him to drop character is equivalent to trying to explaining to a cell phone to a Renaissance Faire actor.
     
  39. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    Ahh..he's a troll.

    Well, ever see how quick a Ren Faire actor learns what a phone is when he gets stung by a bee and is allergic? I have. They get "with the times" real quick to dial 911. lol. Felt bad for the guy.
     
  40. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I think you're probably right. No way to know for sure, though. But it's noticable that every time UO starts banning, the boards get filled with comments that "it can't work" and basically "it's hopeless, lets forget about it."
    This isn't present, at least not nearly to the same degree, when we just talk about cheating, it's much stronger when there's an official effort going on. The goal would seem to be to convince UO that it's not worth it by getting players to agree that it can't be done, thus making it an effort of costs that isn't expected and deemed unnecessary.

    But we don't know yet if it in fact will work. I'm hoping. I think most of us are. I think even a good percentage of those who use cheats would prefer that it works and removes the "need".
     
  41. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    IMHO ,if its working even a little keep on going.
     
  42. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I can guarantee you that on my shard, it is. It isn't 100% and it's hard to say whether it has reduced the numbers using 3rd party cheat applications by 20% or by 80%, but there is a clear difference.
     
  43. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    LOL..how utterly typical of this troll attempt. If it was possible for this "person" to be more wrong, we can not seem to find it. :thumbup1:

    The exact point of this post is to try to kick the Dev's in the ass and force them to step up their game and do what was promised. If they are incapable of it (and it certainly seems to be so based on the increase of cheating), then admit defeat and step away from their job. :thumbup1:

    I would absolutely WELCOME the elimination of all forms of "cheating" and the Dev team needs to maybe look to implementing some of the skill building enhancements INTO the game. CTS is NO joke. They need to absolutely STOP pulling the ostrich approach. For anything that is absolute cheating..like speed hacking...the sledgehammer should come down..fast..hard..and as often as needed to stop the actions. But do not cover poor and unhealthy for the customer programming with the "cheating" blanket.

    You sir / maam / whatever, need to have the intelligence to be able to look outside of the box, recognize what is poor programming and demand change. Then also be able to recognize what is truly cheating and demand it's elimination. To date, you do not seem to have the capacity to perform this task. How unfortunate.

    Grow up and out. Those of us who excercise more than 2 brain cells fully recognize your Jim Jones style of preaching and see what is down the road you are trying to guide the sheep down.
     
  44. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    ...and the straw man makes his appearance, or is this add hominem. I always get them mixed up. Prolly a little of both.
     
  45. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    So if I read what you have posted correctly you would love to see all forms of cheating stopped, except those forms that you are particularly fond of? With the advanced macros available, both in UO Assist and in the Enhanced Client, and the range of perfectly legal hardware and software available in terms of programmable input devices, there are plenty of perfectly legitimate options available for those who struggle with CTS.

    UO has one of the fastest character development curves of any MMO that I know of. Not only that but in recent years they have implemented sots, and alacrity scrolls to make the process even faster and easier. There is no excuse for cheating, none whatsoever, and very little legitimate reason for the advanced functionality provided by most of the well known 3rd party cheat applications.
     
  46. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    And while we're on the topic, I'll just repeat what I have posted many times.

    I don't speed hack. In hundreds of hours of pvp'ing since I came back to UO a year ago, I have never seen anyone, ever, absolutely never, run faster than I do unless I am clearly experiencing issues with lag. I have also never, not even once seen anyone on foot run faster than someone mounted. In fact I have never seen anyone on foot move any faster than they should.

    In that time I have pvp'd against people who have transferred in from other shards, and I have pvp'd against people who clearly cheat in other ways, and I have never, not even once, been able to say, yes, that person was speed hacking. I'm not saying none of them used speed hacks, because I expect I have pvp'd against quite a few that do, but the most any speed hacks being used by anyone I have ever pvp'd against have done is offer some form of lag compensation.

    There are other forms of cheats that affect movement that do have a real measurable in game affect, and those are the art hacks that most of the real cheaters don't want anyone talking about - the art hacks that allow players to run through objects that would normally block their movement, or allow them to target spells on tiles that they would normally be unable to target them on, as well as providing many other unfair advantages.

    So I'll just repeat another thing I've posted before. We have third party cheat detection. Terrific and well done, continue to develop, refine and improve on it. But now we need checksums for client files that are not intended to be modified. That's the next step.
     
  47. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Good Lord Arcus..you taught Llewen a new word; checksums. Now we have to hear him parrot that for the next few months.

    Thanx a lot! :thumbup1:
     
  48. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    Its a decent idea. Let him squalk away.
     
  49. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Frankly if skill building wasn't so boring, tedius, and carpal-tunnel inducing I don't think you'd see so many players UMing. If they can rebuild training a skill to be exciting and rewarding a lot less players would UM. I'm training tinkering right now and was content to sit there cranking out lock picks (boring, tedius) but someone told me about the heartwood quests so I'm doing it and it's interactive with a chance of reward. Still boring though. Why can't all skills have rewards along the path to their goals?
     
  50. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    I've been "squawking" about checksums for at least six months now - not as much as I have been "squawking" about third party cheat detection, but now that that is in place, and being acted on, expect to read a lot more on the subject... ;)

    There's nothing wrong with making skill training more interesting and rewarding, although frankly with most of the skills you can already adventure along the way if you so choose - and still get decent gains. People would choose to UM if that choice was available no matter how interesting you made skill training. People will always choose the path of least resistance, and if they can go to bed at night and wake up in the morning with a skill fully trained, that's what they will do.
     
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