1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Of Thieves And PKs

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zyon Rockler, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I posted this idea already but I haven't seen anything added to the game like it yet, except for stealing from spawn.

    I was hoping there would be a way to make it possible for a thief to steal items in Trammel from a wide range of objectives.

    If you have vendors at your house and your house is not in the city, perhaps an item could spawn on the vendor. So, the thief would check the vendor by peeking into his packs, the same as you take from spawn.

    If the thief is able to steal the item, undetected, he can simply stealth away but if he fails, the thief turns grey and anyone can attack the thief. If you attack the thief, he is then able to fight back.

    Maybe they could do the same thing with players, where a thief was able to walk up to your character and check for an item, just like the spawns and if there's an item, the thief has a chance to steal it.

    Also, something could spawn randomly in houses, possibly, like a chest or maybe the owner of the house could place a thief's box, of some kind. So, the thief would look from house to house for these boxes or possibly have ruins to several, already. The thief would use lockpicking to unlock the chest. If there was an item inside, the thief could try to steal the item and get away, undetected.

    But, if not, the thief would turn grey. After the thief turned grey, perhaps, for 5 minutes they would stay grey and not be able to recall or hide. So, it would be challenging for them to avoid players.

    Possibly, tracking could help you find players, vendors or these thief boxes that had items in them, even boats, possibly have a chance of an item being on the deck, for example. This way the thief would not need to go onto the boat, again the same way you steal items from spawns, where you would click the skill, then the boat and it would say there are no items here to steal or a message, You have discovered a rare item. Would you like to attempt to steal it?

    This would move people around, bring back a sense of community. They might even be able to use the detective, where tracking could be used to find the thief, as well as, forensics.

    For example, The thief steals an item, you see him steal the item and decide you're not going to allow this. The thief turns grey because he failed but he continues trying until he is successful. He sees you approaching and begins running away.

    You begin to attack him and chase him down but the thief is able to kill you. You get a rez and call the detective, who uses tracking and leads you to the thief because the thief can't log out, hide or recall for a 5 minute period. Once you find him, you're able to kill him and then using forensics, you could recover the item that he stole.

    So, they could also be similar to PKs because once they flag grey and are attacked they are able to kill you. Things that you steal from dungeons could also activate this making thieving more challenging.
     
  2. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    224
    Sounds kinda boring, and how many players in tram would care one way or another, it's not like it's their item that's being "stolen", and you think they're going to flag on someone? 99% of the fun in being a thief is chase following the steal, preferably by a fairly organized large group trying to trap you.

    I kinda wish they'd break the "dungeon stealing" into a different skill, it's not stealing, it's bringing a crowbar with while treasure hunting so you can un-nail it from the wall.
     
  3. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,376
    Likes Received:
    4,692
    *smiles* Now Raptor... Is that any way to speak to a potential mate? *winks*
     
  4. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,376
    Likes Received:
    4,692
    Just saying... Zyon, there are options. Come visit. We will put you up for a bit. Let's just see if it takes.

    (disclaimer) Siege is not for everyone. Results may vary.

    Side effects include: Loss of items, heart palpitations, broken mice, head sets flying through the air, seeing yer armor cut into piles of leather, sudden death, sudden death, and even sudden death again.
     
  5. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Well as it is now, there are no PKs and Thieves in Trammel and there never will be, unless a system like this is implemented. This is consentual PvP. It allows the thief to flag himself and it allows the player to choose to attack or just leave the thief alone. It also prevents scripting because it flags the player grey and allows you the chance to kill them and with forensics there's an award, the item the thief has stolen.

    I was also thinking, they could attach the thieving ability to regular objects that people might have in their home. So, if the house is open to the public, the thief could stealth in and say, go to an anvil, click on the thief skill and then the anvil, where they would receive a message, There is nothing here to steal or you spot a rare item, would you like to attempt to steal it? So, different items could be used that are common in homes.

    Once a thief is flagged grey, they could make it so no one could heal the thief unless another thief was with them, whom was also successful at stealing and was grey. So, people could work in groups. You could have people who wait for the thief or who are always looking for thieves and you could have groups of thieves who are always out stealing.

    If you've ever played Baldurs Gate, you would know that it is very enjoyable looking through all the houses and there could be very cool items to make it more exciting, interesting traps. So, a thief would need disarm traps, lockpicks.

    The idea is simply to bring back alittle excitement.
     
  6. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    9
    I am inclined to agree. Maybe this should be a lockpicking thing because it reminds me more of treasure hunting.
     
  7. FishinFool

    FishinFool Guest

    When will you all get it into your heads..

    People who choose to hang out in Trammel are not interested in PVP.

    Thievery, more than anything else, was behind the split. It has been relegated to nothing more than a tedious mini-game.

    And, Kelmo - people like this are not interested in Seige because they cannot sit in Luna beating on a golem or scripting their way up to max skill. It takes some work and apparently that is not fun/hard.
     
  8. LoL/Sonoma

    LoL/Sonoma Guest

    The problem I have with this is it would be abused by PKs to kill unsuspecting people in Tram. Back in the day thieves used to Flag in towns and wait for people to attack them (usually noobs) and them slaughter the unsuspecting.. This would just bring something similar back to Tram.

    I'm all for adding more for thieves to do, but leave going grey to Fel.
     
  9. nynyve

    nynyve Guest

    *Smiles gently*

    The whole reason most people play on Trammel is because:
    We don't want our stuff stolen.
    We like being able to stand next to someone and have a pleasant conversation without worrying about being killed and having our stuff stolen.
    In short--Trammel allows us to be social without constantly looking over our shoulders.

    Why do you want to take this pleasure away from us so that you can have some fun?
     
  10. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trammel... working as intended. Move along...
     
  11. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    No offense & I know its been said before but if you seriously want "to bring back alittle excitement" you should spend some of your time in Felucca & encourage other people to spend time in Felucca.

    Because any idea to generate 'safe' excitement is just plain silly IMO.

    The saddest part is that as much fun as Felucca is it even isnt real excitement. Its a pc game folks. If you cant take a little dangerous adventure in a pc game wtf?
    You can spout all day that its only because you dont like trashtalk or possible cheating or bla bla bla but its just plain sad.
     
  12. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    FishinFool-This is not about Trammel, Fel, or PvP. It is more about my interest in Roleplay. This is a system that allows you to search into other people's homes, in Fel or Tram and even while PvPing. The point is, you explore and there is some risk involved and further more, this is not stealing. If you read the post and understood, the items are generated, randomly from a list of possibly 100 items. So, this has nothing to do with stealing except for the fact, you use the theiving skill to access the list.

    LoL/Sonoma-Please explain in more detail on how you think it would be abused. If the thief flags himself as a criminal, he's allowing himself to be attacked, just like a PvP switch. When he steals something and fails, he sets the switch to on, allowing anyone to attack him but he cannot attack anyone, except for people who choose to attack him.

    nynyve-Again, you could be completely naked, your pack completely empty but when the thief comes up to you and clicks the thief skill and then clicks you, he will get a message that says, This person is carrying an interesting item, Would you like to try and steal it or a message that says, There is nothing to steal. When the thief is successful, you never even know he did this but if he fails, he turns grey. So, all you would notice would be a player walking towards you, standing by you and then turning grey, unless of course, they were stealthing, then you would never even know that they were there.

    Goldberg-This is an RPG Game, that if you become a thief, you can't really do anything that's roleplay. If I wanted to roleplay a thief, I would want to be able to go up to players and roleplay that I am taking an item from them or go into people's homes and steal items from them. I would want to interact with the thief if I was playing the good guy and be able to play a part of stopping the thief. The way it is in Fel, the thief can actually take something from you. That is only fun for the thief.

    What i'm suggesting makes it fun and exciting from the person whose being stolen from because they are not losing anything that they worked hard for. When will you get it in your head? The game has changed. Back in the day, people could steal your most important item. So, the only thing left that is salvagable, is the chase itself and a randomly generated, system reward.
     
  13. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dunno.. I think we are all just waiting for you to figure it out. Seems a little slow in coming.
     
  14. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Amber Moon-It seems to me, you are trolling this thread. You haven't made any points at all or asked any questions. You're only cutting off your own nose to spite your face. The system has been broken for a long time. What exactly is it, that you're trying to protect? What is your arguement? That the thief is great because they steal the Faction Sig or the thief is great because they steal powerscrolls? What about the people who don't care about either of those things? What is the thief to them? They steal bandages, alittle bit of silver and ever since AoS, where has the thief been kept? Where is the PK?

    Explain to me, what it is I need to figure out? Maybe you could help me speed this along because you know what i'm thinking, it'll be a long time before you see anything like this and you wanna know why that is? Well, I think maybe you could figure that out.
     
  15. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok. The point is that Trammel is working as designed. That people have no interest in thievery there. That people are generally dismissive of your idea. That others have suggested that the game play you seek exists in Fel.

    Clear enough?
     
  16. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Well, I hope you don't mind me saying, That I disagree with you and i'll give you 2 good reasons on the 2 points you've made. First of all the system does not exist in Fel, to do what it is i'm suggesting. As a matter of fact, it does not exist anywhere because it's not even created yet.

    Point 2, I am one of the Trammel people who would like to see this system and I don't think you should take it upon yourself to speak for everyone. It's not fair to me and it's not fair to you. You don't say, Nobody likes chocolate ice cream just because you don't like it.

    If you give something like this a chance and this would still be some type of mini game, just with more rules. I think you would find more people would participate than you think.

    Let's give you an example of why-If a thief went grey, in Trammel right now, the difference would be that everyone that was in Trammel, could attack that one thief. Do you see how much more exciting that is? If you were a thief, it would be you vs. everyone. I really don't think that exists right now.
     
  17. nynyve

    nynyve Guest

    Ok so lets talk about role playing. The original pre--MMO stuff in pen & paper in games such as D&D & Rolemaster. Games which I played for decades, Games which explain why my husband & I refused to play UO until the existence of Trammel.

    Both games feature perma death, and characters that can have a life span of 5 minutes. That's after you spent two hours creating them.

    Lets talk about risk--you want risk, my advice is to play Rolemaster. The motto of the experienced Rolemaster player is "Don't fight if you don't have to." Combat is hairy and bloody in Rolemaster.

    More pen & paper rpg games that I can count have been ruined by players stealing from other players or pking other characters than I can count.

    Permadeath didn't help. I'll just roll up another character--no problem. I just brought down the entire campaign--who cares, I had my fun. "After all I was just playing my character--thieves are supposed to steal, and assassins are supposed to kill people..."


    Now notice where I am. In Trammel. Because I got tired of that. I got tired of knowing that I could permanently lose my character every game session to monsters or the whims of other characters. You may criticize me all you like for being risk averse, but having experienced heart pounding risks in pen & paper rpgs, I know what I want.
     
  18. Amber Moon

    Amber Moon Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0
    The power of Trammel compels you.... The power of Trammel compels you....
    The power of Trammel compels you....

    Welp, guess that probably won't work either. :danceb:
     
  19. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    nynyve-I understand this and it is my heart that beats the same blood. I have lived through the same. The problem with UO and the thief was simple and basic. I was with my brother and we were out hunting in Yew and there was a thief who ran by us and then ran by again, stealing my brother's weapon. The problem with this, is, that it was fun for the thief but it was not fun for my brother.

    My brother went to the bank and he got another weapon and these were vanqs and powers, we are talking about, the pinnacle of the game, the most treasured item for a warrior and you know what, the thief did it again.

    So, I understand the pain of the player. That is why the player needs to be protected. That is why the system would give the stolen items. This way the system is getting rid of the pain of the player losing an item but at the same time, it enables the system to remain intact.

    Imagine a copy-paste, if you will, if the thief ran up to my brother and took his vanq and then ran off, in my system, my brother would still have his vanq but the thief would have a type of copy. This way, you're still able to chase after the thief, that is, if you choose to.

    And i'll tell you a small story of my passion. A long, long time ago, I was at the Y road, below Yew, it was about 2 a.m. when a red came running but I was fast, later he called me a fasty and he chased me all the way back into Yew. He hit me with his DP Kryss, he almost killed me and he stole from me. I ran back into the city to call the guards but I didn't, even though I had a feeling, that the next time he hit me, I would die.

    Well, we ended up talking until server down. It turned out, that chasing people is a great way to make friends.

    So, I understand what you're saying but in the idea that i'm proposing, I don't see the player losing anything. As a matter of fact, it's a stand alone system that can only affect you by choice.
     
  20. FishinFool

    FishinFool Guest

    I read your post and understood completely.

    It's a ****-poor idea.
     
  21. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    9
    I love thieves. I'd like to see more. That being said, who was stolen from if an item is just randomly spawned out of nowhere. How is this different from stealing items that are left out for you on the ground from the ground?
     
  22. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    FishenFool-That is just an opinion. I appreciate the criticism but it doesn't help the idea in any way. This isn't really a personal or an opiniontive conversation. I am only trying to explain the idea, so that others aren't led astray by an opinion or dillusion. Personally, I don't care. It's my opinion, that it's a great idea but turning this into an arguement is not of my interest.

    I would rather talk about the idea, if anything or about other things that would be a better way but I don't even have a thief character. What I do, is for the better, for all people. What I do, is ask myself, if someone turned grey infront of me and I had the opportunity to attack them in Trammel, would I do it and I think that it's a fact that I would and I think that it's also a fact that other people would. So, whether or not it's a good idea or not, doesn't matter but more to the point, Would you participate?
     
  23. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    You do realize you cant lose everything in fel either. They even have healers in fel..... it's CRAZY!!!
     
  24. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Omnius-I believe there is a physological factor that the human reacts automatically to certain actions. There are certain reactions that the person is not even aware of. An experiment of taking someone's item. For example: If someone sits down in your family and they have a drink, when they set their drink down, pick it up and just move it alittle bit. The person will immediately put the drink back where it was. We don't really understand why but it somehow becomes part of the person or their possession.

    So, in theory, it would be more of a reaction but there is also a moral issue. For example: If somebody is in someone's house and they're taking items, you have a moral obligation to stop them or to help them.

    When somebody takes an item off the ground, it's kind of, in a free area, like picking a wild flower but if somebody runs up to somebody else to obtain the flower, it's like they're using that person for their gain. So, that's the idea of roleplay, they're a thief who is stealing an item, so, now you have to make a decision.
     
  25. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    9
    They're spawning an item, not taking an item. Nobody has been robbed despite your assertion to the contrary. I disagree that people will feel robbed when someone else gets an item that previously didn't exist and that they had no connection to or knowledge of.

    Nobody is going to care or feel robbed if a person walks around creating items out of thin air in random houses.
     
  26. I don't like the idea, too many doors of opportunity for scripters to run around getting tons of items of vendors without any real risk. Although thieves do need some work to make them fun again :)
     
  27. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Omnius-Try to understand that alot of things in the game aren't really done for any reason at all but rather than pointing that out, I will give you a scenerio. A simple yes or no. You're in Luna, a thief comes in and bumps a player, to steal from them, they turn grey, you have the skill, forensics, which will allow you to claim the stolen item from the thief's corpse. Any item in the game could be on the corpse. There are 20 people in Luna Bank, do you think you would:

    A. Help kill the thief and try to claim the item for yourself
    B. Simply ignore the fact that there is any opportunity at all

    Now, remember, it could be any item. It could be a deed for a dread horse with full stats, transfer token, or whatever it is you desire in your wildest dream.

    Now, remember, it's just as if someone had placed it before you on the ground. It's almost as asking, Do you let it decay or do you pick it up?
     
  28. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    wee papa smurf-I don't agree with you. Let me build a scenerio. You're a thief and you're going around all day trying to steal something. In most cases, there is nothing to steal and there is a list from 1 to 100. Let's say on #1, the thief winds up stealing 10 gp. You have to remember the thief does not know what he's stealing. The system just tells him that there is an item. Now, there is a chance of him getting a good item but in most cases, the guy is going to end up with 10 gp and have to stand out in the open for 10 minutes, grey, without being able to hide or recall out.

    Now, if he does it in a guard zone, he's going to get whacked. So, basically, what you're going to have, is a guy standing there all day, grey, going from house to house, most likely walking. So, here you go running by and you see this grey guy, now, let's say he is scripting.

    To me, you now have a solution to stop the script. So, I disagree with you and it's not like he's going to be loading his pack with goodies because if someone has forensics they are able to take those stolen items from him.
     
  29. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I just wanted to add a footnote to scripting. Let's say you're in Doom and you're running a warrior that's running forensics and some guy is scripting to steal an item and you see this guy's script take the item. So, he pops out grey. Now, basically, you're a script hunter. You run up, whack this guy, he's not going to be able to put up a fight and then you use forensics on his corpse and now you have the item.

    Imagine running through all the dungeons, just looking for these guys, grey. Even stealing a lamp post or a painting would become alot more challenging. They could even base the timer on the rarity on the item that is stolen. So, if the item is a level 20 rarity, maybe they would have to try to hold onto it for a longer period of time, as a grey, than they would a rarity level 1 item, where they might only turn grey for maybe, 3 minutes.
     
  30. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    9
    so you want people to walk around killing scripters? I can tell you thats pretty boring... walking around killing mindless drones that MIGHT have a drop. you'd basically be doing the same mindless task those scripts are doing to create those items but fully attended and fully bored.
     
  31. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    go play siege if you want a shard like this.
     
  32. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Omnius-I was saying if you wanted to do that, you could.

    The way it is now, a scripter hides and goes about his daily life, work, movies and comes back and checks to see if he has an item in his pack and remains hidden.

    With this system, there would be a chance to stop them and a way for you to get the item that you would of never been able to get before because the scripter would come out of hiding and show grey and you could take the item away from him.

    There are 3 main things in this idea.

    1. You can be a thief and have all of these additional things to do.
    2. You can be a thief/hunter and use tracking to find the thief and forensics to reclaim stolen items.
    3. You can be a PK that flags himself to see if someone will fight him.

    Or you could just do nothing but there's alot of things, I think this basic idea would begin to improve and help bring UO back alittle bit of what it had.
     
  33. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    I've been playing a thief since before trammel. Stealing items from ground, no excitement. Personally I don't get the whole idea to begin with. The item is there on the ground! Why would you need stealing to pick it up? Lol.

    That being said, stealing random items spawning from people, no excitement there either. It's random, who's going to miss it and why should the target care that I stole it??? Who isn't going to create two accounts or use a buddy and just let them steal it? Where's the RPG in a random item spawning on a person? Why should I feel proud about being able to get this random item? All that and I don't think a lot people are going to want random items popping into their bags on occasion.

    Seriously though, this just sounds like begging on players instead of npcs, not stealing. Stealing in trammel should be working on NPCs, not players. Want to bring stealing to trammel then go from that angle. Leave the stealing from players where it belongs, on Siege or in fel.
     
  34. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Viper09-I was trying to make a point about something being on the ground. I didn't say it was exciting or fun. I just said it would be foolish not to pick it up. That was my point. It didn't have anything to do with stealing.

    Nothing has to change the way it is. Like in Fel, for example, you would just add to the system. The triggers don't have to be people. They don't have to be players, NPCs, these were just suggestions on how you might trigger.

    I don't understand how you would not find it exciting, if you're already doing it. This would just add to it. Like, imagine, popping up grey aside of someone in Trammel, knowing that they can kill you and that they might pose a challenge to you. I think that would be exciting and very important because the player interaction is the most important part.

    I don't think you could abuse this by having multiple accounts. Like, say you went to an island and you had 10 accounts and you took your thief guy and went through all 10 and none of them had an item on them but 1 and the item was 10 gp. I wouldn't care, you're paying for all those accounts, by doing so, you're supporting UO.

    Say, once in awhile you would get that really great item or medi-ocre rare item. It wouldn't be something that you would miss. It would just be something someone else did not have. So, in that way, the item would be special, just like a Doom artifact.

    The challenge and the excitement and the feeling of accomplishment, the reason to be proud, would be, that you were able to keep the item because once you turn grey, there's a risk that someone will see you and challenge you.

    The person who stops you and claims the item could have bragging rights. Maybe, the item would have your name on it and it would say recovered from and then the thief's name.

    I mean they are the same thing you do in Fel, except, you're not able to interact with anyone and without you being in Trammel, the game is boring. It's missing the element of surprise, that occasion when the thief turns grey and is hunted down.

    It's no different than spawning, really. You kill how many paragons or how many scorpions to try to get the Void or you kill how many Dark Fathers to get an orny. What's the difference? The item would be different and unique, some of them and the thief would have more to do. It's a win-win but again, you don't have to use people. You could trigger it by using an anvil or a forge or an oven or maybe, even by using a door, a bed and each could trigger a different style item, even.

    You might say it sounds boring but if there were good items to find, you would check every one of them and getting a buddy, it would just say, There was no item to be stolen and then you would have to wait a day. This is great news, now you and your buddy are playing. That makes, me, you and your buddy. So who else is with us? I mean really, this thread is awfully long.
     
  35. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Viper-I see what you mean by having a buddy follow you with forensics and when you find an item, they kill you and claim it. That's interesting but remember you're grey when you fail to steal it. If your successful, you could stay hidden and in stealth. So, now just because you're with your buddy, you're not safe because you're grey and in Trammel your buddy can't heal you. It puts you in a state, that only people that attack you, you can fight back. So, even if you're successful and your buddy kills you real quick and gets to claim the item, you're still gonna be grey for 10 minutes or however long.

    So, there's going to be times when you don't have the item on you and your grey. Another thing that could be done is, the item could be bound to the character. So, if you're the thief stealing the items and the items are account bound, then your buddy would get all the items. That just makes you a really nice guy because you still have to hunt down the items to find them. So, you're both earning the item anyway.

    So, it would make more sense for both of you to, just try and steal or have a team of you searching houses. You would have a better chance of finding an item. Abusing the system never works. It's just an illusion because if you play the game right and you understand how to play, you can do 10 times better than the guy cheating.
     
  36. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    So, the original idea was based on the fact, that when you kill someone in Fel you get more money back but the problem is, is that your buddy could just give you that gp and then the item. So, another solution is, you set up the system so that out of 100 tries, you win 10 gp.

    So, you fail to get the item, you turn grey and you don't know what the item is. Your friend kills you and you win 10 gp and this occurs 100 times before an item of mid to high value is dropped. So, you would lose money if there was a loss between you when your friend killed you. So, if it was balanced, where each time your friend killed you, he would receive less money, then in that scenerio it would be cheaper for the 2 of you to buy the item because of the amount of times your friend had to kill you before a worth while item was found.

    So, by chance, the hunter sees you grey and just happens to get lucky to claim an item but still possibly some type of record for the hunter to show how many times he has been able to kill you. Maybe, some type of bounty board that shows the top 10 detectives and the 10 most wanted thieves but that does throw a wrench into the works if it's not done right, it would take the fun out of it but like I said, it doesn't matter anyway because you're earning the item by finding it. It's more the trying not to die that is exciting.
     
  37. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    276
    Not true. So not true.
     
  38. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    No offense bud but this was a terrible idea from the start.
    And btw, even calling it an 'idea' is being generous.

    You obviously are unable to personally generate any excitement for yourself in Trammel.
    Deal with it.

    I would have thought that 100% negative response to your OP from many vet players would have given you a hint/clue. My bad :)

    Stealing from another player in Trammel? Seriously? Did you even stop for 1 second to think about this? Or did you think you were re-inventing the wheel so just kept plowing forward? It must be hard & frustrating to have such a brilliant idea that non of us mere mortals can even comprehend it :(
     
  39. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    Zyon, have you played a real PvP thief?

    It may be fun for the guy you're stealing this item from to chase you, but what is the point in this if it's just a random item that really isn't theirs to begin with other than just finding a rare item? This just sounds like rare hunting that should honestly go hand-in-hand with cartography/lockpicking on random chests popping up in cities. For stealing this should be for nothing more than your crate thieves as quests given by thief gms. Telling you to go find a certain item or collection of items on npcs.

    But as for stealing those random items from players. (Aside from the question of how we'd get random items popping into peoples bags to begin with and preventing them from banking it before someone steals it.) There just doesn't seem to be a point to it other than trying to get trammies to PvP so they can get that item.

    So back to the question, why should your target care if they don't want to pvp? Where's the bragging right for the thief since it's not even the targets item? PvP stealing is about getting something that belongs to your target, for giving them a real reason to go after you. Hence my question about whether you have played a PvP thief. Because this simply sounds like a different version of crate stealing. Tram isn't for pvp or stealing from players.

    You sound like you just want to bring fel into tram. So if that's really what you want, it isn't going to happen. A thief can be a deadly PvPer in the right hands and this would ultimately turn into a simple lure to trap those trammies into getting them slaughtered. Assuming that the thief/PvPer wants to kill them quickly instead of playing around with them. So no, keep it in fel or on Siege.
     
  40. TheBlackCobra

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    2
    So... let's just be sure I understand this... your idea is for thieves to have a tool to allow duping, one of the things which pushed UO's economy into such a bad place to begin with?

    I'm a long-term Trammel player. I don't like non-con PVP, but when I play my thief... I play it in Fel. And yes, I spend most of my time dead. The chase is fun, but you wouldn't get that chase in Trammel, just by duping an item someone had.
     
  41. Mongbat137

    Mongbat137 Visitor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    So basically items that don't belong to me should spawn in my house so thieves can try to "steal" them?

    A) Boring
    B) My house is set to private anyway
     
  42. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
    Administrator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    1,835
    I'm gonna have to say that isn't true. It was one of the reasons, but not the primary one. In all honesty thieves weren't a big deal til Disarm came about with UO:R, about 75% of the time a thief in town simply got guard wacked, or failed his check and was ganked and dry looted by 50 people, in the wilds they did a bit better, that is if they packed dungeons let them.


    Now I understand many reasons why the split was put in, and I don't disagree, but what I do disagree with, is every play style in the game has gained since the split, PvP got regular faction updates, not to mention faction arties, Non-Faction PvP has greatly benefited from new skills (and don't get me started on people wanting "Stealth" nerfed because of Ninjistu) and items, PvM has had slews of improvement and new areas, Crafters have gotten tons of new options and a few new skills........

    Thieves? We got to be interior decorators.......wtf?

    Are thieves the scum of UO? Possibly but I'll tell you one thing, it's probably the best RP type character in the game. The only one that creates it's own opportunity every time you log on one. No need to plan ahead, no need to involve others into some mocked up story line, simply go out and play and the chance to RP will present itself.
     
  43. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    KEMO!!!!

    Here I am trying to get ppl to come play Siege!!! I'll take my pixie swatter to your backside there boy....
     
  44. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Well Viper-You have been like the right hand trying to help make UO a better place and I think credit should be where credit is due. If it wasn't for you seeing the flaws in my system, how could I possibly improve it and all of your questions are valid.

    I think we need to step outside the box for a second because you're going to have to start with something basic before you move onto something that is alittle more. I think having a thief in Trammel would be a good start to getting people interested in PvP. I think the wall between the 2, Fel and Trammel, it's just to high and I really think the 2 extremes don't go far enough.

    I have never played a thief but I have played against them and I don't want to ruin the current play style, just add to it and break some of the barriers.

    So, here is another solution: The thief steals an item, the thief turns grey, after the thief completes the grey period, the item appears in his pack.

    The thief starts at tier 1 and he is able to steal level 1 items. After stealing so many level 1 items, the thief will move to tier level 2. Now, as the thief progresses, the grey period will last longer and the rewards for each tier will improve. If the thief dies, he will move back to tier level 1.

    This way the thief has his best interest, not to die. As he's working his way up through the tiers, he will fail many times and it will be a long road to reach tier 10. In each tier, there will be 10 items. The most common of which, #1 in tier 1, making the rarest item tier 10, item 10.

    So, the thief will have to remain a level 10 thief, possibly for, several months before he is able to have the chance to receive the best item he can.

    At the same time, the hunter is killing the easy thief and collecting the lower level items but he's looking for the highest level and he's using tracking. So, that even if the thief is hidden or stealthing, there is a chance, the hunter will find him but remember, if he's in Trammel, he has to flag grey to be attacked.

    And again, you could create some type of message board that would show who the tier 10 thieves are and what hunters have recovered level 10 items.

    But, I think, you're going to have to start with a basic system that works from a list similar to an arty drop because the current system does not allow you to steal personal items from players in Trammel. So, for now, that part could stay in Fel but maybe later, items could be introduced that could actually be taken from players anywhere.
     
  45. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    9
    So true. The thief can be roleplayed in many ways and is always a ton of fun.
     
  46. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Instead of using bulletin boards, more of a roleplay, type system might be to use the town criers. So, when a detective kills a level 10 thief and recovers a level 10 item from the thief, the town crier could spred the news to the citizens. So, the player's name of the detective, we will call Sherlock Holmes, recovers a level 10 item, which we will call Precious from a thief, who we will call Daster.

    So, the town crier would say, Sherlock Holmes has recovered a Precious item from the Notorious Thief Daster.

    So, Notorious would be a level 10 thief, also the precious item could have the engraving, The Detective Sherlock Holmes reclaimed from Daster, The Notorious Thief.

    So, only level 10, would trigger the criers but it would bring a feel into the game, as if, we were actually living the history or part of what is going on.

    The town crier could also announce when a thief becomes Notorious and begins stealing precious items. So, the town crier could say something like, Our worst fears have come true. The Notorious Thief Daster has stolen a precious item.

    This brings the player the ability to create his own event. A way to spread his fame through the land. The crier could repeat this every so often, perhaps 3 or 4 times a day, in each city until a new thief claims a precious item and a new detective reclaims a precious item and becomes a hero. So, the crier would not spam but when a new event occured it would be announced immediately.