1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

OK. Can we focus on a real Siege need?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No sweeping changes. No throwing the whole game into a tizzy. Lets just look at the training regimen. It has been documented that it takes months to be viable on Siege. Why? To make it hard?

    Trust me, it is hard enough. I will never stand for transfers of any sort. To or from. We are a seperate entity. I do not think it does our shard justice by making folks wait months. I am not just talking PvP here. It takes months to be a viable crafter. It is easy and quick to be a resource gatherer. Quite profitable as well. I know my lazy ass while buy your stuff. Many others will too.

    You folks want to know what is really on the top of minds? It is this thing, the time to get a character up to speed. *shuffles notes* There are many other things on my mind. I hope for this one to get some attention soon.
     
  2. Said it else where ... probably more meaningful here:

    ROT change ... /signed ... it is Due & desirable
    (I have a char there, but Don't play ... might IF the change is made)
     
  3. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    48
    my three toons there very neglected ggs system for seige is wacked rather tamers on all shards than that in put interaction
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    One thing at a time, eh?
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh. I did not post on Siege forums asking for folks to view this thread. I think it will stand on it's own.
     
  6. <blockquote><hr>

    One thing at a time, eh?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    well *leans back and lights a pipe*

    Yes, but with an explanation ...
    *puffs*

    There be a method to my madness ...err ... single step ... single step in this instance ...
    there be a underlying method to taking a single step ...

    *puffs*
    Ya see ...I figures ... 'twould be more ... mmmm ... effective ... insightful if ya like ....

    *woofs off a string of twenty perfect rings*

    [​IMG] Better to have some first hand knowlege ...feet on the ground, so to speak ...
    BEFORE engaging in a purely theoretical debate.... would give me better "standing"
    To comment and suggest from ...

    *puffs*
    Maybe even MORE peeps .... would be easier to come and see ... more "fresh eye's" on the matter
    .....
    Piece by piece, step by step ...
    Instead of any relying on anothers descriptive powers ...
    (Of which I might comment ... 'taint exactly of the highest mastery ... in general, non specific terms ... here, in the hall ...)
    *coughs*
    Instead of any relying on anothers descriptive powers ...
    And what they did see, thought they saw, didn't see but heard about ...

    [​IMG]*puffs*
    Yep, for now ... single step ...

    *dozes off*
     
  7. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>

    ...You folks want to know what is really on the top of minds? It is this thing, the time to get a character up to speed. *shuffles notes* There are many other things on my mind. I hope for this one to get some attention soon.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If Advanced Character Tokens were made possible for siege?

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That is a thought, then RoT kicks in. You are almost viable with advanced. Almost.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Step by step. Yes.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    There be a method to my madness

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ah ha! So you at least admit to madness!

    Your skill in taking things out of context has increased by .1. It is now 70.1

    Ack!...RoT means I have to wait another 5 minutes for another gain. Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!

    [​IMG]

    -Skylark
     
  11. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,627
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Why would you be against transfer to/from , if it were limited to Characters only?
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    Why would you be against transfer to/from , if it were limited to Characters only?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think transfer to could be negotiable...but not from.

    If transfer to was implemented, a character could bring *nothing*.

    By nothing, I mean no mount, no bank contents, no stables, not even clothes. Well ok...a deathrobe would be provided when you arrived cause I don't want to look at your naked arse, but you get the point.
     
  13. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>

    That is a thought, then RoT kicks in. You are almost viable with advanced. Almost.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Im actually very interested in the whole Siege/factions aspect of the game. But as a casual player, the amount of time it would take to build a character considering the risks... well... too much work. A character that is built with an advanced token still takes a lot of work to finish... and possibly would get some "fresh meat" over to Siege. [​IMG]

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would be OK with a one-way transfer TO Siege from other shards, if the char came over just in their pixel unmentionables, covered by noob char clothes, and without any gold above the 1K normal startup. A restricted transfer, as you say.

    No transfers off, though. Roaches check in, but they don't check out...or something like that. [​IMG]

    *edit* LOL...Serg' beat me to it...and already said essentially the same things.

    -Skylark
     
  15. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,627
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Why would you be against transfer to/from , if it were limited to Characters only?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think transfer to could be negotiable...but not from.

    If transfer to was implemented, a character could bring *nothing*.

    By nothing, I mean no mount, no bank contents, no stables, not even clothes. Well ok...a deathrobe would be provided when you arrived cause I don't want to look at your naked arse, but you get the point.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would absolutely bring a naked character over, actually I would bring two, a crafter from one account (who's practically worthless on Prod shards, as are everyone elses) to cloth and supply my naked/broke/itemless character from my other account. I would do it tonight...
     
  16. <blockquote><hr>

    Ah ha! So you at least admit to madness!
    -Skylark

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [​IMG] truely ... to have more than Just feelings and opinion, to justify a demand or high priority insistence, with and of my wants ...
    in the hall
    'Tis truely madness, to have it, and know you have it ... and hold it, still, as a sound and valid method ...
    madness indeed
    [​IMG]
    burma shave

    Now to tend to kelmo, and hold him fast to intent ...
    one
    change
    in focused request
    one
    change
    without further debate
    no
    why not this
    or that
    or both
    or entirely other

    one
    change
    to ROT

    THEN the next
    one change available to all
    not bought by more than a question
     
  17. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,627
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Does anyone love you more than YOU? And wtf does Burma Shave mean? I"m 42, and I"ll be damned if I know that one..
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    To be fair, while I think they need to focus on Siege, I think they should FIRST focus on PvP systems for the WHOLE of the game and get them to an attractive standpoint (in terms of balance, content, and rewards for involvement) before they focus on Siege specifically.

    Why?

    Because the PvP changes would also affect/help Siege. Then once those are in, they can take a deeper look at Siege specific issues and improve the shard itself.

    As it is, it's LONG since overdue that PvP content got a lookover. I mean I play a crafter a LOT and I appreciate the changes crafters get, but it seems like that's been the focus FOREVER (ML was a crafter's expansion, we have crafting changes now, SA is going to be huge for crafters). Enough with the crafters (again this from someone who plays a crafter quite a lot, as much as or more than I PvM). Give the PvP side some love, and not just in the form of a snowball arena war on Test Center (though that may have had some good starting ideas).
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Why would you be against transfer to/from , if it were limited to Characters only?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is one of the many charms of our shard. I would hate to see that go.
     
  20. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,627
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Why would you be against transfer to/from , if it were limited to Characters only?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is one of the many charms of our shard. I would hate to see that go.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Had you not been one of the first ones to start up on Siege, I firmly believe you wouldn't find it so "charming".
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Trust me, I am a transplant. I did not start there.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    The initial days of Siege didn't have RoT, then the wipe and re-release did. It never really worked for me because I'm more of a melee person and Melee got hit MUCH harder than Magery in that vein.

    Of course then there was the housing rush and the escort timer and the rush to get the escorts to locations you didn't have to rely on an advanced mage to get to, then getting PKed by someone who had hired an NPC paladin.

    I gave it a shot way back when (even had a small house near the Britain gate), but got burnt out after getting enough for the house and still not really having a character worth it, plus the direction of the shard didn't really fit my style either.

    I don't want to see it go away, but I think it would be more beneficial to revamp PvP on the whole before focusing on Siege specifically.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Dermott, do not be swayed by the PvPers of Siege. They would tell you Siege is a PvP shard. That is a fallacy. Siege is a player driven shard. The majority are really not all about PvP. As much chest thumping as you see, it is the crafters and casual players that drive the shard.

    Yes, I have a crafter. He only makes faction traps. I buy my goods. Any one that says Siege is just PvP is either promoting agenda or just blind.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I, too, have a char on Siege, and am also daunted by ROT. I have managed to work several hours at gathering regs and killing small animals, but thinking towards what will come, and how complicated gains get after a certain point makes me meekly wander back to Napa
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    RoT has it's charms. Just too slow.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yeah I would crap if the removed ROT. It DOES need to be sped up, but I cannot stand to train skills, and the rot instagain is really a godsend to me!
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No real agenda here. Just trying to keep our shard out there. It is an option. I would like to see some love on the training up side.

    There is really no other place I would want to play. I am working up a character on Atlantic. Ever step of the training makes me long for Siege. What you folks take as excepted is a different game to me.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There are three questions that come to mind:
    1) how long do you want it take to max out?
    2) how important is the difference between 99.9 and 100 in that environment?
    3) why aren't people happy playing low-end characters?
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Damn good questions.

    <blockquote><hr>

    There are three questions that come to mind:
    1) how long do you want it take to max out?

    It should take some time. Not as long as required as now. In my happy world you would be glad to log into Siege and work on skills. It is hard enough having one character.

    2) how important is the difference between 99.9 and 100 in that environment?

    Heh. Between 99.9 and 100 is your choice. It is a different world. We can achieve 120 with either effort or gold. Just like on every other shard.




    3) why aren't people happy playing low-end characters?

    You would be surprised as to how many find a niche on Siege as "low end" characters. They get rich gathering resources and then get in to the game.

    Just let these folks train hard and die well. I need the resources and the targets. *smiles* The good resource gatherers will not die easy


    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  30. I have enjoyed the hell out of SP in the year plus I have been here. I have yet to max out a character or catch on to PvP. At first I was against changing RoT. It is slow...but in many ways it should be. At least it is dependable. But in light of the state of SP..I would be willing to bend a bit. I would love to see more people, more events and player driven...stuff.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Focus and singularity is the key to getting things done. People will listen too one idea. If you throw the kitchen sink and all of that, they just tend to duck.
     
  32. Oh I agree. An RoT change may bring in more people...which would lead to more stuff going on. *smiles*
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Sad thing is, we are not even an option for a new account.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If Advanced Character Tokens were made possible for siege?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm a little worried about Advanced Character Tokens, not if used of Siege newbies but veterans will use them to get more skills on soulstones.

    Let say I want taming skills for Freja, I will now drop my skills on soulstones and then use a AC Token for taming. I do now have enough vet to rez my pets and enough taming to get some pets. Mixed with my old skills, not a bad start as a tamer with archery or magery.

    Someone who want mining and blacksmith could do the same and get some quick mule skills.

    Advanced Character Tokens is ok on Siege if your soulstoned skills count too in the 200 skills you can have on the char when you use the token.

    I think what will help us most right now, is something like a timer at 2, 5 and 10 min between gains for skills at 70. 90 and 100 points.
    And a daily cap at 2.0 in each skill below 90 and 1,5 in each skill above 90. No max in how many skills you can train, if you have 5 skills below 90, you can get 2,5 in each.

    It will take a month, to go from 70 to 120, no matter how many skills you do train.
    That sounds a little to fast but we could make it a little slower from 100 to 120, with only 1 point in daily cap for each skill.
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I started a char on Siege roughly 18 months ago.

    I can't pvp for peanuts, my brain just doesn't function the right way. Does that stop me being successful on the shard? Heck no!

    I have a fully trained, very busy crafter, five well stocked vendors, an 18 x 18 chateau, +20 stat scroll, 120 tailor and smith scrolls obtained, eaten and filled.

    Do I get pk'd? sure I do, but not frantically often. Do I lose stuff? Sure I do, but I can usually replace it fairly easily.

    I don't play the shard exclusively, I don't want to be a crafter all the time, but I don't regret starting a char there, I enjoy playing her and have made many good friends (quite a lot of them play red chars too).

    Having said that, there has been a survey done on RoT, personally I would have waited a little longer to see if there were any results from that before bringing up the subject again.
     
  36. yeah I am right there with Molly. Not a crafter...but certianly not a PvPer either. I farm and do stuff with the guild. And I get killed. I go home and suit back up and start again. I have a lot of fun.
     
  37. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    That is a thought, then RoT kicks in. You are almost viable with advanced. Almost.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Im actually very interested in the whole Siege/factions aspect of the game. But as a casual player, the amount of time it would take to build a character considering the risks... well... too much work. A character that is built with an advanced token still takes a lot of work to finish... and possibly would get some "fresh meat" over to Siege. [​IMG]

    Safe Travels, Sam

    [/ QUOTE ]
    It takes me a day to get to 70 in 4 skills (a weekend day, that is). Add the second day of the weekend and I am 70 in 6 or 7 skills. That, I don't think is a big issue. Its once you are at 70 that things start to take time with RoT as it is. So I couldnt care less about advance character tokens being available, its once you are in RoT that things start to hurt.
     
  38. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>

    ...It takes me a day to get to 70 in 4 skills (a weekend day, that is). Add the second day of the weekend and I am 70 in 6 or 7 skills. That, I don't think is a big issue. Its once you are at 70 that things start to take time with RoT as it is. So I couldnt care less about advance character tokens being available, its once you are in RoT that things start to hurt.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, I'm not sure how many hours long a weekend day is. Or what techniques you are using for training but an advanced token starts most primary skills at 85. That would give someone a bit of a leg-up before RoT kicked in.

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  39. Hows this for a seige specific idea. rather than the advanced char tokens or transfers that are seige specifc. what about when you create a seige char you can start out with 200 skill points instead of 100.( like on reg shard where you get 2 skills to 50 max to start)

    would it bring more people if you could start with 2 skills at 100?

    say magery and eval or swords and tactics blacksmith and tailoring for the crafters?

    i think this would bring more people in and let them have fun faster having a couple viable skills to start.
     
  40. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,351
    Likes Received:
    15
    I have 2 "part-built" characters on Seige.

    My main reason for not giving them more time and effort is the soul-destroying slowness of training.

    I wouldn't be in favour of the ability to transfer my characters in, naked or otherwise, but I would like a rate of skillgain nearer to that which can be obtained on production shards.
    I'm not asking for 5 x 120 in a weekend, but I do know how long it would take me to 7 x GM on a regular shard.
    Okay, Siege is meant to be harder: Surely that comes with the one character limitation, the housing issue for people who have "mains" on other shards, and the combat and insurance rules; why add to the difficulty with by limiting skillgain.

    I think I understand the basic principles of the Siege economy, so I was aiming for a tailor who would be able to harvest their own leather; which sounds SO easy. To be honest, if it's going to take me 3 months of casual training to have a chance to beat-off the attacks of those who would steal my hides, then I'm not going to bother.


    I appreciate that this is only the opinion of a single player: I don't want TC "give skills" on Siege, but I would like to be able to build myself a relatively viabe character within a reasonable timescale. Until this becomes possible, I'm afaid that I will continue to use Siege as the backup option for when Europa falls over (which is a pity for all concerned [​IMG])
     
  41. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    13
    <blockquote><hr>

    RoT has it's charms. Just too slow.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I cant stand GGS. When I play on Atlantic I'm lucky if I get .1 skill gain a day ROT &gt; GGS My tailor there has been in the 105s for years. You will waste hours and tons of resources for 0 gains.
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    And wtf does Burma Shave mean? I"m 42, and I"ll be damned if I know that one..

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Google is your friend, young'un.

    Here's one to get you started:

    Feeling nostalgic?
    Now you'll rave!
    Here's the story
    of Burma Shave.