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Ok, forgive me for asking, but.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Yenji Yasagari, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    How in the world is anyone killing dexxers on a mage now. I mean, I consider myself a great mage, and an awesome duelist, only to realize that, I cannot beat dexxers to save my life. A description of how fights have went down the last week. (Been on a t3 connection btw)

    Me: Explosion, Curse, Magic arrow, *explosion hits* harm. DP on me, AI spam on me. *Me running away trying to arch cure while he simultaneously uses cure pots and I cannot heal for anything.

    Me: *gets a disarm off* Arch Cure. *hes at full health again* Explosion, Energy Bolt, poison *cure pot* bandaid kicks in, full health again, DP, AI spam on me. *I get mowed down by AI spam*

    Now, I'm not an expert in fighting dexxers. I won't even say I'm good when going wrestle/scribe against dexxer. But, come on. Is it possible at ALL to kill a dexxer anymore on a mage? If so, I'd like your tactics. Because I'm at a loss of words, especially when I ask one of UO's most elite duelists over AIM, and get no reply because he also doesn't know.
     
  2. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Answer: Necromancy.
     
  3. Ohhh I might be slooooooow and probably am, but I have a question...what is AI spam?
     
  4. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Armor ignore. Constant 35 Damage strikes at 1.25 sec with a kryss, plus a hit spell, with my defense lowered as is.
     
  5. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Using the Armor Ignore special move over and over and over.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Cure pots?
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No idea why you don't carry pots in todays uo, especially as a wrestle mage.

    Try more DCI, above the cap to nullify HLD (reduction fo 25). Also consider stat fixing to utilise parry (pots help here too).

    This might help on the defensive side, as for killing them.. well you'll need to use field knowledge to try and outsmart them. Most will run and heal, turn around and repeat until they can chain hit you.

    In short, there's a reason why 90% play dexers; theyre unbalanced.
     
  8. Ah Beng

    Ah Beng Guest

    My (current template+suit+strategy version, reincarnated 2007 on Formosa shard) mage pvp char has *never* lost to any dexxer opponent (or mage opponent, for that matter. If the opponent's really good, we draw).

    Anyone sincerely interested enough can xshard or make a pvp char on Formosa shard and duel me (Atlantean Angel), to find out what-makes-me-tick. I'll give a little hint though, in direct response to your question : you're totally right, a 100% traditional/pure mage template simply can *not* beat a good dexxer template (even a draw would be tough to pull off, against good dexxer pvpers), so here's the trick - you have to dare to *disembowel* your sacred-cow 'standard-pvp-mage-template' that 90% of all mage pvpers use, and make do with undaunted innovation and fearless creativity (in choice of template skills); but it's still 60%-70% a pvp mage template.

    PS. Ummm, it might also be a little factor that my pvp suit cost me approx 500mil gold. But I did manage to clone a suit (almost) as good for only approx 100mil.



    <blockquote><hr>

    How in the world is anyone killing dexxers on a mage now. I mean, I consider myself a great mage, and an awesome duelist, only to realize that, I cannot beat dexxers to save my life. A description of how fights have went down the last week. (Been on a t3 connection btw)

    Me: Explosion, Curse, Magic arrow, *explosion hits* harm. DP on me, AI spam on me. *Me running away trying to arch cure while he simultaneously uses cure pots and I cannot heal for anything.

    Me: *gets a disarm off* Arch Cure. *hes at full health again* Explosion, Energy Bolt, poison *cure pot* bandaid kicks in, full health again, DP, AI spam on me. *I get mowed down by AI spam*

    Now, I'm not an expert in fighting dexxers. I won't even say I'm good when going wrestle/scribe against dexxer. But, come on. Is it possible at ALL to kill a dexxer anymore on a mage? If so, I'd like your tactics. Because I'm at a loss of words, especially when I ask one of UO's most elite duelists over AIM, and get no reply because he also doesn't know.

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  9. legs

    legs Guest

    something wrong here.. 500M for armour?
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    make a scribe/tact mage

    mine is:

    120 mace
    120 eval
    100 scribe
    90 tact
    120 resist
    115 mage
    rest in med
     
  11. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    Why is a dexxer hitting you regularly with a special move?
    You should have 120 wrestling, 45 DCI. They should have a hit chance penalty for using a special move.

    Also, have you tried mana drain &amp; paralyze? With poison and tactics (otherwise he can't both DP you and use AI), their template will be fairly cramped, and they might have decided to sacrifice magic resist.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would also have to say, chug a G Cure pot and dissarm him immediatly.
     
  13. Tark_Smash

    Tark_Smash Guest

    Need cure pots for one. You never should cast Arch cure in a fight, that makes you die. Other than that, maybe get max DCI and switch from wrestling to a weapon skill and get HLA on your weapon. Parry may also be an option but then you have to mess around with stats alot.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Need cure pots for one. You never should cast Arch cure in a fight, that makes you die.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I disagree. Casting arch cure when you can is better than chugging a pot, as you should save your pots for when you really need them, knowing when to cast or when to pot is something that you can only learn through experience.

    The best example of this is when I was fighting a nox mage the other week on my nox mage. There was a lot of poison spam going both ways as you might expect. He always chugs cure pots, never casts arch cure. I on the other hand only pot when I need to. After a long fight he ran out of cure pots, and was forced to start casting arch cure, as someone who never casts arch cure, you could see this was a huge problem for him timing wise. After only about 10 seconds of being pot-less he died. The funny thing is that on inspection of his corpse I found he had started out with many more pots than I, due to the large amount of empty bottles.

    He died not because of lack of pots (trust me I made him go through about 40 odd), but because he lacked the ability to cast arch cure effectively. While I on the other hand conserved my pots, used them only when needed, and thus outlasted him. He died purely because he relies way to much on his pots (and still does) and when push came to shove and he needed to use magery to cure, he simply lacked the skill to do so.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    To be honest most of these gimplets are running with no magic resist. lately I have been adding a vanna vamp or drain to my combos it helps in some situations.
     
  16. Nerf-Herder

    Nerf-Herder Guest

    As others have already said, use cure pots and heal pots, run high DCI, etc...

    ...and what the hell are you hoping to accomplish by casting magic arrow on a dexxer? Interrupt his swing? Spam harm if you need something small and he is in your face. Other than that, keep him disarmed, keep him poisoned, keep him poisoned, and keep him poisoned. Keep negating his bandages/chiv heals and pump him with mind blasts instead of explosions in between.
     
  17. Story Time........

    Ever heard of GREATER Cure Pots? this isnt a no-pots duel.

    How about Mana Vamp? Curse? Paralize?

    Oh but he was AI spaming you every 1.25 seconds.... NOT.- because that would have doubled his mana use over and over for chaining specials to quick.

    "Is it possible at ALL to kill a dexxer anymore on a mage? "-P-A-LEASEEEEE this is MO not UO, didnt you get the Memo from UO's Most EL33Test Dueler you ICQed? he didnt answer you cause he didnt want to give you the 5 second lesson into killing a Dexer.

    Find your Dexers weakness, he has at least 1, low mana, no resist, Disarm works wonders...

    Whats your mages weakness besides not having Greater Cure Pots? Resist? nope...Mana?...Nope....Defence?...did you have Wrestle or a 0 scnp wep.... guess that wasnt one, well looks like you had a slight advantage to me, wheres your weakness?

    He had to get next to you to hit you, then go through a skill+HCI Vs DCI calculator to see if he could hit you, all you had to do is keep a distance and cast away with no chance to MISS and Harm spam if he was up on you, damn that was really a Disadvantage for you.....
     
  18. Yeah, actually, if you're trying to kill someone that runs off screen and they know what they are doing, you will NEVER (NEVER NEVER NEVER) be able to do it on a scribe mage. Why? Because of the .5 seconds they added to EVERY SINGLE SPELL that you cast and try to move afterwards. You will only be able to do it if you lure people into thinking that they can get the kill, which usually means setting yourself up to die (or almost) as well. How did this happen? They "fixed" rubberbanding, which as a side effect makes you wait an extra .5 seconds before you can run. If you try to move before that time is up, it takes longer. Blah.
     
  19. Disarm is a last ditch effort, because this means that you are no longer healing, curing, or doing any damage to your opponent. With wrestling against 45 DCI, this means that maybe once in 3 or 4 minutes you will get a disarm off when you want to.

    And as it has been mentioned since the cure changes, poisoning is extremely overpowered if you don't have cure potions or chivalry.
     
  20. As others have said you should get cure pots.

    Parry/Wrestle Mage used to be very anti dexxer, though since they fixed the dex requirement I don't know how doable those stats are, maybe as someone else said with pots.

    Also you could cast prot/summon a demon/cast prot again, I wouldn't do that unless you've got pots to cure though.

    You can also cast poison field on yourself and stand still (use prot if you need to), that way he HAS to poison himself to hit you as it's 3x5.
     
  21. Poisoning Takes 80-100 Skill Points, what PvPer Doesnt carry Greater Cures?

    I run 100 Poison, 80% of the Time they cure first pot, of the other 20% they get it on the second pot at least 19% of that, I have NEVER seen anyone take more then 3 greater cure pots to Cure Leathal Poison, add that along with Chiv, arch cure, healing.

    Plus the poisoner had to drop something to add the LP to his templet, all you had to do was put a few potions in your Pack... with no timer to re-use them, its not a Strangle for gods sake that you cant re-use another apple for 2 minutes....
     
  22. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    I've failed up to 8 cures in a row off of a dexxers LP before. It happens.

    Just because nox takes skill points, doesn't mean it's overpowered. Super dragons take 200+ skill points, and no one is arguing those things aren't overpowered.
     
  23. Next Time try using Grandmaster Made Greater Cures, im callin BS! Id like to see statistical info on this BS .
    Poisoning is the hardest skill in Game to Train, and it doesnt do what it should do at 100 points.
     
  24. Tark_Smash

    Tark_Smash Guest

    I dont think I have ever failed to cure with the first pot. I dont get hit with lethal very much though.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I kill dexers with my scribe mage, but not against 4/6 chiv. they just heal too fast to outdamage them.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thing is, if a Mage switches from Wrest to a Wep, he leaves himself in a spot where he can easily become defenseless. First thing most Mages do (Even with SC Weps) is attempt to Disarm the Warrior if the Warrior get's next to him, thus the HLA on the SC Wep won't help alot. Mage would likely have very little or no HCI, and be trying to hit a Warrior with 45%+ DCI and maybe Parry, odds are the Warrior is gonna land a hit before the Mage does. If the Warrior sees the Mage using a SC Wep, know what he's likely gonna do? Disarm the Mage, thus leaving the Mage defenseless, and completely at the mercy of AI or Conc Blow Spam.
     
  27. <blockquote><hr>

    No idea why you don't carry pots in todays uo, especially as a wrestle mage.

    Try more DCI, above the cap to nullify HLD (reduction fo 25). Also consider stat fixing to utilise parry (pots help here too).

    This might help on the defensive side, as for killing them.. well you'll need to use field knowledge to try and outsmart them. Most will run and heal, turn around and repeat until they can chain hit you.

    In short, there's a reason why 90% play dexers; theyre unbalanced.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is a particularity of Mages vs dexxers. At equal skills, DCI, HCI, mages are interrupted half of the times (when the dexxer hits) while dexxers will miss half of the times.

    Problem is that HLD disturbs heavily that balance. Since the dexxer will hit more (more damage), the mage will be more interrupted and will have to heal/cure a lot more (hence will cast also a lot less offensive spells).

    Only ways to counter that is to have wrestling and disarm (difficult against archers), having parry and/or up to 70 DCI (difficult without wrecking the suit).

    No wonder a majority of dexxers are HLD archers.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "Poisoning is the hardest skill in Game to Train, and it doesnt do what it should do at 100 points."

    Actually, Taming is the hardest skill to gain, and takes the longest. I have an old Wrest/Inscrip/Nox Mage, and had GM Poisoning on my Stealth Assassin before they made Specials require Tactics. Was harder to gain back then than it is now. They made Poisoning easier to gain when they removed the Anti-Macro Code, you can go from 0.0 - GM Poisoning now by Poisoning the same Fish Steak repeatedly.
     
  29. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    Cogniac is right... I can't do it on a pure mage... had to use nerco (mostly for strangle, pain spike, corpse skin, evil omen (at least those are my most common spells))
     
  30. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    Maybe he was talking about buying his vinecord?
     
  31. <blockquote><hr>

    How in the world is anyone killing dexxers on a mage now. I mean, I consider myself a great mage, and an awesome duelist, only to realize that, I cannot beat dexxers to save my life. A description of how fights have went down the last week. (Been on a t3 connection btw)

    Me: Explosion, Curse, Magic arrow, *explosion hits* harm. DP on me, AI spam on me. *Me running away trying to arch cure while he simultaneously uses cure pots and I cannot heal for anything.

    Me: *gets a disarm off* Arch Cure. *hes at full health again* Explosion, Energy Bolt, poison *cure pot* bandaid kicks in, full health again, DP, AI spam on me. *I get mowed down by AI spam*

    Now, I'm not an expert in fighting dexxers. I won't even say I'm good when going wrestle/scribe against dexxer. But, come on. Is it possible at ALL to kill a dexxer anymore on a mage? If so, I'd like your tactics. Because I'm at a loss of words, especially when I ask one of UO's most elite duelists over AIM, and get no reply because he also doesn't know.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've seen mages kill the DP dexer you are describing but it's probably hard. What's nigh-impossible, though, is for a typical archer to kill one.

    One of the melee weapons specials is 'disarm' and overall, it's not making much sense for archers to add wrestling to their templates. This means that the archer's ability to do attacks plus have working DCI is destroyed every time the melee dexer gets close enough to touch him (and therefore disarm him). Having DCI on the archer doesn't fix it, it just draws out the process a bit longer. And then, add a little lag to that, and the archer can't even stay away, even if he tries hard.

    And then, once he gets his bow equipped again, he's got almost no chance to hit because of the effects of the DCI and the parry put together.

    The archer can't add parry - - - - and that's part of what's mixing things up, I believe. The archer's ability to stand back and fire doesn't balance out against the DP dexer with parrying who WILL eventually get that disarm off.

    The best an archer can do is escape. BEST. If the archer tries to fight, the eventual, real-world result seems to be that he ends up hung up on a clump of trees, or a group of stalagmites, and gets cut to pieces and DP'd (disarmed so no DCI, no nothing, then stam blocked in, basically helpless...).

    But the thing is, "Archer" is such a hated template classification that the players who primarily use something else are happy with the status quo. When you talk about this stuff with other players (and everybody knows it, really), you literally you get told "Then play a mage!" or "Then play a DP fencer!". Some of the same sentiments will get reflected on this board as well, as though archers should be smeared into the ground at every opportunity.

    Although I admit... a wrestle-archer sounds kinda interesting. It wouldn't be as powerful as parry, I don't think? I don't see a wrestle-archer balancing this thing out but maybe I should try it!

    Have you ever noticed how archers who duel melee dexers will often say "No Disarming!" and the melee dexer understands and complies? We all sense that there's an imbalance here, but the call to fix it remains subdued because Archers in the field are uh, not liked.
     
  32. Azmira Zalof

    Azmira Zalof Guest

    The only pots I use are GM made. It's happened quite a few times to me, cure potions aren't a 100% cure vs lethal...there's your statistical info.

    And Taming takes significantly harder and longer (that's what she said) to GM than poisoning.