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Ok here is a post about cheaters

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Bama, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. Bama

    Bama Guest

    Ok over the years I have begged for soemthign to be done, as have many here. Still alot of people always like to balk at the fact that theres no such thing as hack and how anything you see in game is possible with skill and simple macros.
    Ok well if that is the case I have a really cool way to make us both happy.
    Fist of all yes there are cheat programs and yes they do give an advantage.
    there are some people in this game who I have chased down with 6-10 others and we cant kill them with dragons and archers all over them. Fine some people really are skilled, i get that. now on two seperate occassions over 48 hour periods, these same individuals I have caught alone and dropped them in less than 4 steps. Not just once but seeral times. How is this possible, well it was simple, the time that I was able to dominate them was right after the last two client patches. What does that have to do with it? Well it seems that the programs used to cheat, took a couple of days to be reformated or updated to work again.
    So heres my fix, sems simple, enough, DAILY MINI patches, date changes or random code like a 2 k patch just to change it so their programs dont work. The people who do these programs will get tired of daily fixing patching and balance may return.

    If that what you really want.....
     
  2. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    I've heard the same idea 100's of times. This would also screw around with UOA.

    Also, consider this...If EA changes to something like this, there would be little to keep the cheating programs from writing code to search for the change, then make the appropriate coding change to their app, then repost the updated program. They could then write code within their app to automatically update itself every day.

    It's basically a vicious circles, so if EA spent any money doing this, it would end up being wasted resources.
     
  3. Corpsecrank

    Corpsecrank Guest

    :bdh: And it has been this way since the very first year...

    Cheats happening and people thinking they know how to "fix" the problem.

    The only real problem is that there is no solution to cheating in online games.
     
  4. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    it takes ... eh... "them".. about 30 minutes to make their progs applicable after a "mini patch". only with HUGE patches do you see hours/days of down time. heh, when they came out with ML, an entire guild disappeared from activity on my shard for almost a week!
     
  5. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Actually that is completely incorrect. I do not agree. While cheating may continue...let's think of it as shoplifting. Yes you maybe be able to shoplift, but will you get away with it continuously? No, you will not. Security cameras and other forms of technology will eventually catch up with you. Just like the recent news story of this real life event. And, then what happens you ask? The people get all-together banned from the store. This then falls into trespassing which can then fall under police jurisdiction.

    As far as the gaming world is concerned, I have seen the same rash in other online games. Basically, monsters were implemented that were high enough level to stop people from doing automated repeat programs in order to catch fish and other goods, thereby selling those goods at an auction house for profit.

    The monsters were of high enough level that you yourself would have had to have leveled half way through the game to even stand a fighting chance of not getting killed.

    Codes were also changed so that a person could not go AFK and fish. Yes the person would have to be high enough level and then manually fish without going AFK.

    Special drops which used to be sold for money were made rare ex only so that only the person who got the drop could have the item attributed to them and nobody else.

    People who would continuously cheat would get outright BANNED.

    That certainly seems like a solution to me. Hard to play on an account if you are banned. And...if I have your account information then, well you won't be making an account again in your name.

    Because honestly, if a person cared enough and had enough integrity and honesty, they would be just happy playing the game how it should be played. It is after all a game. If a person has to "cheat" in order to be "better" in the case of PvP...then they shouldn't be playing anyways. Their account can get banned and then that is the end of that.

    You cannot say there is NO solution when, in other games the measures taken have been working.
     
  6. Intoxication

    Intoxication Guest

    uoa will let you by pass any patch.
     
  7. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    As my Grandad used to say - "locks will only keep an honest man out".
     
  8. Corpsecrank

    Corpsecrank Guest

    No it is correct. Are you a programmer with a strong understanding of networking and game design? No? OK then my statement stands. Name one game on the market that is 100% cheat free. You can't because when it comes to code if you can write a form of security someone can write a way to break that security. Even organizations that are supposed to be top secret are broken into. The FBI as an example. If places like that can be broken into and manipulated then a simple online game is no challenge for someone with any skill and interest.
     
  9. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    This would also screw around with UOA.

    My heart would weep endlessly.

    /sarc
     
  10. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    I wish that something so simple would work, but its been suggested and there have indeed been times when there were updates 2 days in a row or 3 days in a row and it hasn't seemed to slow anyone down.
     
  11. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    Cheating will ALWAYS be profitable. In all shapes and forms. Until you're caught that is...
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    That could just mean that none of those people are cheating, lol.
     
  13. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    That's true, although I don't think that speedhacks are effected by patches... and thats what I see the most of. I assume quick heals and such are mostly just good reflexes and macros.
     
  14. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    As far as I understand (unless there is a way to speedhack that I do not know about, this is likely but lets assume for this argument that there is not :p) It would take roughly 30 seconds to set up a speedhack after a patch, if it was affected at all, but it is highly unlikely that it would even be affected by it. I think the "cheats" people here are trying to stop are scripting, and really there is no way to fully do this since you could just pixel script, it would be a little slower but could still do it just the same, and this would have nothing to do with the game just mouse clicks. =\
     
  15. H2O

    H2O Guest

    What they need to do is bound items that are gotten to that account for certain items. That would stop all of the lets farm all the lesser pop. shards and transfer back to the shard that we can sell on. Also make it where certain items can not be transferred from shard to shard.
     
  16. Corpsecrank

    Corpsecrank Guest

    Change your IP make a new account with game time codes? Programming gives you the ability to understand and break working code. If you play the game and cheating is something you want to do and you can program you will cheat.

    Please think things through before making a reply next time...

    On a side note though speedhacking does not work and has not worked in a long time. The only way to move faster in the game is to eliminate any slowdown on your end because there is an absolute limit to how fast your character can move in the game and nothing can change that.

    Some players appear to be speedhacking to you because your lagging. But before you say your not you need to understand that the lag you get is not due to the normal lag most people experience. I played on the fastest connection I could buy in my area and no one ever moved faster than I did only equal or slower. But because there is a latency that even something like fiber optic lines suffer from when you see a character on your screen next to you they are actual off by a couple of tiles. This is true in all online games where characters have free movement. You will also have lag if packets get dropped for any reason which can also make people appear to be speedhacking.
     
  17. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    You have done nothing but contribute a whole lot of wrong to this thread. It is clear you don't know what you're talking about, but I'm sure you'll reply to my post with a nice rant about how you are a network administrator, or a software designer.
     
  18. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Can I remind everyone please that you should not name unapproved 3rd party applications on Stratics?

    Thank you.
     
  19. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    That was clear enough when he responded to a thread that has been dead for six months.

    Further reading would have been pointless.
     
  20. Jesusislord

    Jesusislord Guest

    the best way to counter cheaters is by doing this.. make a character with this template

    Archery
    Anatomy
    Tactics
    Hiding
    Stealth
    Ninjitsu

    Then stealth around with a bow, xbow or whatever.. and when the reds get low from fighting themselves and their friends, you shoot them with armor ignore or whatever you prefer. Take their potions, and enchanted apples, and go fight evil mages in Tokuno by the Rune Beetles. (But be warned: Evil Mages just like reds may loot your uninsured cobbler-purchased sandals if you die)
     
  21. Corpsecrank

    Corpsecrank Guest

    I can reply to whatever I feel like replying to.

    I also do have both networking and programming under my belt.
     
  22. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Then you must not be much of either.

    So lets assume that your internet connection is 15 down 768 up. And you ping 50. You could downgrade to 7mb down, 512 up, and you would still most likely ping around 50. Etc Etc. Your "best connection in the area" prolly wont matter unless you have some ridiculous business connection 30mb up/down fiber or some bull****.
     
  23. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    dont worry guys. in the future all games will be played by accessing the client from a server far away and all visuals will be packet based and or live video feed and cheating will be impossible.
     
  24. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    There is no cap to how fast you can go in uo, where ever you heard this...is just...Words I can not even say on stratics. People have asked the devs to hook a client up right to the server and scale the speed people can go based on this, but they have not. The fastest you can go is faster than anyone can ping since there is no speed cap. (sure there is a cap but even if you were directly linked to the server you would not reach the cap they have set for it, so speed hacking would still work and thus stating the speed cap as being there is just silly and mundane.)

    And, honestly, lets see if you cheat on an account that is not yours that means you are doing it to farm items. Now you can track the movements of that char so you know where he puts those items. Once you ban him, you can lock the house he put those items in. Or you could even (assuming he puts them in a house that does not belong to him) Ban the account the house belongs to. All of those would make cheating nearly useless, since you would get no benefit from it, but I am sure you will need more explanation on various ways they could accomplish this. To say there would be no counter measures to cheating is normally the cheaters way of saying don't change anything I want to keep cheating.

    Most cheaters have 0 programming knowledge, or limited programming knowledge from "scripting" and that barely counts.

    Just because there is an influx of people who know programming does not mean most of them would cheat. Most people who make cheats do it as a challenge to their programming skill, not to actually cheat or share the cheats. Some people do share tho, and then all the thousands of non-programming people come along and cheat. While you can never completely stop cheating (actually that is debatable but since the ability to stop it is theoretical I will not have a debate like that with someone of your stature) you can stop people from wanting to cheat with severe punishment. Also you can stop all the non-programmers from cheating, that alone would solve the complaining problem we have here.
     
  25. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Good call.

    I have a 100 mbps fiber connection at my disposal. Ping is 30 (+/-5 ) to LS. It looks like the peer connect is fast ethernet coming off an equinix pipe.

    Please note that this latency derives from EA's network. I have three connections at my disposal, each of which ingresses to EA via a different peer, and they all show similar latency from EA border routers.

    For this circuit, the peer is sprint and ping is 2-3ms all the way to EA's border device.

    Having said that, I have been accused of speed hacking a few times. Every time that happened I was using the 100 mbps circuit. Just a data point.
     
  26. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Here - have some more koolaid.

    The way providers are trending this is pure fantasy, unless you want a metered connection and a $1,000 a month bill.

    Scalable cloud infrastructures that send a few K of data per client are not relevant to the absolutely massive waste of bandwidth required to do as you describe.

    Wrong solution for a problem that does not exist.
     
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Err, you must live really far away to have 100mbps connection and ping only 30. :p

    I actually use to ping 15 to napa (the server I live closest too) and prolly close to 50 or to...I think atl would be the farthest away, but it was ~50 to the eastern shards. This is not a disagreement with what you said tho, it is to say that now I have a far slower connection and ping about 40 to napa, and about 90ish to the eastern shards, and honestly I do not notice the difference normally (sometimes crap happens and I lag but meh) I do not even notice a difference in speed of other players, but I guess because other players were speedhacking when I had the 15 ping and they speedhack now that I have the 40 ping it just does not matter how I ping, they will always pop around.

    Sure I had a point when I hit the post button... But I seem to have lost it, so I will just end my post.
     
  28. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, while i was mostly joking. this technology does exist very proficiantly.
    At my friends data center, one of the programmers there actually has a system working where you can play CoD4 thru a web browser with max settings, 90 FPS on a computer running windows XP with a pentium 3 with a terrible graphics card. and you cant hack it.
     
  29. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Some arguments are not worth the risk Cear :p
     
  30. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    Isnt there supposed to be a punkbuster type program thats going to be part of Stygian Abyss? While im sure a determined cheater may find ways around it im sure it would prevent at least a majority of the masses that are skipping around in pvp.I think it would be nice to know EA is at least trying to do something because for anyone to say that UO is not a cheat program riddled game simply has thier head stuck in the sand. Im pretty much a casual computer user that plays UO and i find it frustrating that despite the fact I have a nice system set up by a knowledgeable friend and dont lag much at all(good ping good internet commection) that I see all these complete trash playersthat do nothing but run off screen and return once their healed simply to repeat thier dicerolls on thier dice roll templates. I really do feel cheated by EA since ive been playing this game since 99 and more and more i simply log off just shaking my head at what the game and its playerbase have become.
     
  31. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    in that case, holy ****, do you live at google?
     
  32. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Actually considering what speedhacks used to do when you could practicaly fly from Britan to minoc in 10 seconds I believe in the earlie days untill they placed a server side cap. These days even the fastest 2d speedhacker can just keep up with a KR player with optimized system settings and comparable latency.
     
  33. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Of course that does not refute what I already said :p

    KR syncs with the server much more cleanly than 2d does, so it is not much of a comparison.

    Of course people on KR could be considered as speed hackers when they are just using KR, on the other hand not many (if any at all) pvpers use KR, and thus the "using KR" argument is mostly just thrown out by most.

    Either way, the server side cap is not much of a cap, since as I stated if you were hooked directly to the server you could still go faster than that. In reality it is more than likely a client side cap than a server side one, given the way it "seems" to work, of course I can not know this for sure so I will just repeat what I said, since speed hacks still work stating that there is a cap is just silly.
     
  34. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Hooked up to the server then the account that will be using it will be privaleged as such many normal caps or normal rules that were in place for us mere folks are abolished. It was mention in a post from the old days probably might find it in a publish change somewhere back then about it. If I remmeber it was a server cap might be wrong as my memory gets sketchy after so many years.
    Many old players that hate change haven't adapted to kr hell they didnt adapt to 3d I sure did I loved 3d sniff, But those pvp that have and learned the system have done pretty well with it as well as learn how to optimized the new macro system to it's fullest and mods. There still alot of work to be done but just the added speed against 2d players is enough of a incentive to use it. This I know from allies and friends in pvp that use it.
    I use it for my crafting,questing,bod and mining purposes so this is me saying it as a second party for those who do use it for pvp. Maybe someone who uses it regulary to pvp can chime in to give a first hand experience.
     
  35. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    LOL

    I think he has it even better than that...I suspect he lives on top of the router in Sprint that's peered to EA's boxes...

    If he actually said <1ms, he's living in the janitor closet at EA's server farm...
     
  36. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, there's an actual cap. Now, whether it's so high that even someone connected directly to the server can't reach it (like what C&D said), I can't be absolutely positive. But I doubt it's that high. Because if it is, there will be a huge difference between someone pinging 10 ms and someone pinging 50 ms.

    Excerpt from Mr's Tact's paper (google it if you are interested in the full paper)





    KR while having bits optimized and giving that smooth movement, does not in practice, give any direct speed advantage over the 2D client.

    That's based on my test using 2 similar high end systems. Maybe certain hardware configurations will net you better performance from KR, that I don't know.

    While the devs have acknowledged that this is a problem they know of and will address, I'm not sure if KR is related. See Draconi's post from another thread

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1237021#post1237021 :

    Also, there seems to be some confusion over speedhacks and scripting. While some people seems to me to be blaming speedhacks, the issues and solutions they descibed above are actually pertaining to scripts.

    Cheaters are very likely using both.
     
  37. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    The difference really would not have to do with the ping, since 10-50 is not that great a difference (we are talking like 1/3 of a second here). I know there is an "actual cap" the question was where the cap is placed, and I know with out a doubt that since speed hacks work, and I was able to ping 12 before, so that the cap is higher than it should be. If the cap was server sided no one should be able to "bounce" around on someone who pings 10, I suppose there could be some exceptions...but it is still an unlikely scenario.

    Also on a different note, if you have run KR and asked someone else how you were moving you would know there is an obvious speed difference, running KR on my computer and 2d on my wife's computer you can tell. Also friends can tell, and I can always tell when various friends are running KR or 2d (I guess they could just be loading a speed hack, but it is less likely. specially since for a speed hack you shouldn't have to log off and for KR you would have to :p)
     
  38. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    On the KR note, I did a test together with my wife, 2 pcs side by side, same hw specs. KR gave no diff running in unobstructed areas. There's the normal lag where she is ahead on her screen and I am ahead on mine. Same as what happens if both of us use 2D.

    There's an advantage only if you are running in circles or obstacles due to KR's auto path finding.

    And I believe these are the signs you recognize from KR users.

    However, it's very different from speedhacks, and doesn't allow the blinking across screens.
     
  39. :lol:
     
  40. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Possible...Never really run in a straight line lol. It is different than speed hacks, I would never argue that. Just saying KR syncs with the server much more cleanly than 2d does, how great of an effect that has I am not sure tho. :)
     
  41. Limlight

    Limlight Guest

    Unfortunetly, unless they mass ban cheater or install something that stops all third party programs...its going to happen.

    I have officially given it up as of last week....when I realized guildies were using hacks to run over gravestones, candlabras, efields...etc...

    People cheat...even your friends cheat.
     
  42. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    So whats the deal? Is EA putting in some kind of punkbuster program in or not? If they dont do it soon they never will and the pvp end of this game will continue its downward spiral.
     
  43. Lady_Calina

    Lady_Calina Lore Keeper
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    I haven't heard of them putting PunkBusters in the plans for anytime soon, too many people thought it was too invasive.
     
  44. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    They've never come out and stated they are going to.. it was a paragraph in the TOS for the SA Beta. I'm sure if it ever launches it will launch with SA.
     
  45. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    You can chatter about the merits of various fixes until you are blue in the face but the only people who can really do anything are EA and they choose not too. Other games' developers do do something about cheating and there is much less of it in those games.

    UO has always been a cheaters' paradise, there's even been at least one book written about it. You simply have to accept this or else go play something else because there is absolutely zero that EA are going to do about it at this stage because the game is practically unplayable for many without the scripts/cheats and the whole economy is now based upon people buying gold for cash from script farmers so that its now not possible to progress beyond a certain point (i.e. into PvP) unless you do this.

    I strongly suspect that at this point getting rid of all forms of cheating would kill UO off faster than anything else EA could do.
     
  46. Only if the majority of players use cheats. I can't claim to know what percentage of players do use them, but I would suspect most are PvPers... you really don't get much advantage for PvM. I don't use the cheats, but i don't PvP either, and would love to see those whizzing by me in Felucca slow down a bit.
     
  47. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    Saying pvmers or trammies dont cheat is a little bit naieve. Just look at the well known vendor search sites. This is done with non approved programs. BODs etc are all done with em too as well as the heartwood quests. As far as Fel goes, any pvp guild is effected by speehacks and scripts. It simply just scales by guild. Some guilds have a few cheats, others a few more and some it is a prerequisite to cheat to be in that guild which means its an entire guild of cheats. Factions? Id say 60-75 percent of faction players run some kind of speedhack and or script. Its turned the whole faction system into a game of pac man as its nothing more than run run run until that speedhacking dexer/archers diceroll goes off. I find it ironic that by adding the most powerful items in the game to factions that EA has essentially rewarded speedhackers/cheaters. If anyone isnt sure what im talking about just make a noob character o9n GL and stand at yew gate and watch all the faction trash blip back and forth. While I dont neccessarily believe the majority of pvpers are cheating the numbers are definately getting much closer to it and at a rapid rate.
     
  48. I didn't say Trammel players didn't cheat, just it has few advantages for PvM. There is a big difference in those two. But the rest of your statement I can agree with.

    OH... and Please don't call me a Trammie. It used as some sort of insult somehow insinuating that the only real players play in Felucca. I play both sides, but I don't PvP.
     
  49. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Quoted all three because they go together. The clause in SA says they have the right to scan your computer, so yes it would be in SA.

    They are not going to do PunkBuster because they said they would handle it in house, and now they have included the clause in the SA ToS saying you give them the right to do it, so again no PunkBuster just EA doing it.

    If they are going to or not is far to speculatory to say.
     
  50. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    I didnt call you a Trammy per say but Trammy is certainly a term that has been adopted in UO and if someone gets all bent out of shape about its use then i dont really know what to tell you. Its not as if its a racial slur or some kind of hate mongering. Call me a Felly. Who the heck cares?