Okay I decided to give the EC client another go with pinco's UI. So I dled and unzipped pinco's as per the directions on his page. I go to open EC, and I need to patch. OMG! It's soooo sloooooow! Good thing I'm on hi-speed, if I were still on dial-up I'd be here next MONTH!!! Why is EC so slow to patch? *UPDATE* Well it finished patching at 2:00 and I have been learning Pinco's and EC. I gotta admit this is neat!