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Omnius' pontification over the accuracy of forum names

Discussion in 'UO Crime' started by Omnius, Feb 27, 2011.

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  1. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    This is the description of the forum. This is VERY narrowly defined but frankly the content of the forum doesn't meet up with this.

    "This forum is for the discussion of the stealing skill as it pertains to NON player versus player thieving."

    In the stickies we have the following content:
    Daily Rares Spawn
    Semi Rares Spawn
    Dungeon Artifacts that require the stealing skill to obtain
    Skill guide for Stealth and Hiding
    Patch Notes regarding to obtaining rare consume-ables requiring the stealing skill
    Information for Training Stealing

    Roughly half of this content is unrelated to the stealing skill or any kind of theft in the actual concept.

    Information found in this forum at large:
    A LOT of information about LOCKPICKING (belongs in treasure hunting forum)
    Information about disarming Traps (belongs in treasure hunting forum)
    Information about STEALTHING, NINJITSU (According to Stratics, belongs in warriors forums), DETECT HIDDEN (better for scout forum)
    Information about Stealing from monsters, from factions(pvp or faction forums would probably be better for these threads), training stealing.

    Let's analyze. Does this appear like a thieves forum that is narrowly tailored to stealing skill?

    Let's be honest with ourselves... This is a sub forum for treasure hunting, or belongs in a much more generalized dungeon rogues forum encompassing a broad skillset.

    To call this a thieves forum out of spite is merely a means of appeasing a few resentful players holding on to some old grudge about how they were run out of the treasure hunting forum, the rares forum and the thieves forum...

    Accuracy is conducive to accessibility, and this forum is very misleading in title, it encompasses far more than its title. The folks here have spoken as to what they want. They want dungeon treasure hunting or a broad Rogues concept in line with the idea of rogues in other games.

    All the current name and description seem to do is foster random posts from all over the rest of the profession forums.
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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  3. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Daily and Stealable rares info

    treasure hunting then? None of it involves stealing from someone, and some of it doesn't even involve the stealing skill.
     
  4. hakeem

    hakeem Journeyman
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    Re: Daily and Stealable rares info

    If you look in the the list, pvp thief is above this one. Plenty of banter there on stealing from someone.
    The info contained here regarding non stealing items, is pertinant to this type of tief, as most of the folks who dungeon/box steal also look for daily rares.
    Side note to the poster researching and priming: Good on ye!
     
  5. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Daily and Stealable rares info

    I'm just somewhat confused why there are two thieves forums is all. It seems like a lot of the info is much more relevant to semi rares collecting. IE: Nobody is robbed, and the stealing skill isn't utilized.

    And those things that involve "stealing" from the ground seem much more analogous to lock picking chests in those same dungeons. Almost as though this sub forum and lock picking might better be classified "Dungeon Rogue" for accuracy.

    Forgive me, it just seems like some random person in the rares forum decided we needed two thieves forums rather than accurately named forums....
     
  6. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    Re: Daily and Stealable rares info

    Allow me to tell you a little story.

    It was a group of PvP thieves who made this forum necessary. They did this by trolling and insulting anyone who came in (to what they felt was their private club house) and even hinted that they might be stealing from someplace besides from other players. The displaced "crate thieves" (searching for a place where their posts would be accepted) went to the rares collector forum and were basically told that they belonged in the thief forum.

    Because of a clique the former pvp thief mod allowed to form, the crates were were treated like second class citizens in their own forum and basically forced out. That mod was removed and this forum created (not necessarily in that order). I don't know what the atmosphere in the PvP thief forum is now because I have little reason to go in there anymore.

    But that is why we have to thief forums. As far as I'm concerned if you're using the stealing skill (whether it be to steal something in doom or out of another players pack) you are a thief. The name is fitting because this is a forum for players who enjoy all aspects of playing a thief, not just stealing from other players.
     
  7. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Daily and Stealable rares info

    Unfortunately, that doesn't make the description accurate black sun... That merely means you dislike some group of players that may or may not have made valid points( can't make a judgment based on nothing but we can make a judgment based on your post).

    It sounds based on your post though that the people in the thieves forum were treated as second class citizens on stratics because some folks in the rares forums were snobs... And that's based on you're version of the story.

    Would you not agree that Dungeon Rogues would be a more accurate title for this forum? Or merely Rogues??

    Remember, many of the things here are called semi-rares and do not involve the stealing skill at all. None of the things actually involve theft... Much of it involves skills totally unrelated to stealing or only related to stealing in a very broad "rogue" concept.

    Frankly, I had no idea what this forum even was until I had to sit down and read what was here and what was in the "pvp thieves" forum.

    Perhaps we ought to start a stratics movement for this forum to be more accurately named to encompass what is here rather than have it named for what almost comes off as spite?
     
  8. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    Re: Daily and Stealable rares info

    I think you misunderstand. They were treated like second class citizens and run out by the pvp thieves, they (we) went out in search of a new forum, but no place fit properly because they (we) are thieves, not rares collectors or treasure hunters.

    As far as I'm concerned the community should never have been split to begin with. Had I been working on that board at the time things might have played out differently. Crate thieves should not be persecuted because they don't fit neatly into what some people think a thief is. But because of certain people who allowed that sort of behavior (and even supported it) the solution that was settled on was to create a second forum.

    As far as are this forum's residents thieves? I say yes. Granted, some rares you are able to just pick up and walk off with, but the majority of them require the use of the stealing skill to obtain. And as new ones have been added the dev's seem to be content to continue making them require stealing to be taken. I think the forum name is fitting. This is a thief forum, no matter what some people say.
     
  9. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    Pruned from the daily rares thread. That wasn't the place for this sort of discussion.
     
  10. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Let's analyze this because I am led to disagree.

    This is the description of the forum. This is VERY narrowly defined but frankly the content of the forum doesn't meet up with this.

    "This forum is for the discussion of the stealing skill as it pertains to NON player versus player thieving."

    In the stickies we have the following content:
    Daily Rares Spawn
    Semi Rares Spawn
    Dungeon Artifacts that require the stealing skill to obtain
    Skill guide for Stealth and Hiding
    Patch Notes regarding to obtaining rare consume-ables requiring the stealing skill
    Information for Training Stealing

    Roughly half of this content is unrelated to the stealing skill or any kind of theft in the actual concept.

    Information found in this forum at large:
    A LOT of information about LOCKPICKING (belongs in treasure hunting forum)
    Information about disarming Traps (belongs in treasure hunting forum)
    Information about STEALTHING, NINJITSU (According to Stratics, belongs in warriors forums), DETECT HIDDEN (better for scout forum)
    Information about Stealing from monsters, from factions(pvp or faction forums would probably be better for these threads), training stealing.

    Let's analyze. Does this appear like a thieves forum that is narrowly tailored to stealing skill?

    Let's be honest with ourselves... This is a sub forum for treasure hunting, or belongs in a much more generalized dungeon rogues forum encompassing a broad skillset.

    To call this a thieves forum out of spite is merely a means of appeasing a few resentful players holding on to some old grudge about how they were run out of the treasure hunting forum, the rares forum and the thieves forum...

    Accuracy is conducive to accessibility, and this forum is very misleading in title, it encompasses far more than its title. The folks here have spoken as to what they want. They want dungeon treasure hunting or a broad Rogues concept in line with the idea of rogues in other games.

    All the current name and description seem to do is foster random posts from all over the rest of the profession forums.
     
  11. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Black Sun, if you're going to rename the thread, rename it to "Redefining or Renaming this forum for Accuracy"

    That would better encompass the actual content of the thread.

    "What is a thief" is a pretty clear attempt on your part to "frame the discussion"
     
  12. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    Despite what you may believe the players here consider themselves thieves, as do I. Just because we don't fit your narrow definition of a thief does not mean the forum's name needs changing.

    If anything, I think we should change the PvP thief forum to the pickpocket forum. I mean, honestly, a pickpocket is actually what that class is. You're just stealing trinkets from peoples bags. Real thieves don't limit themselves to just picking peoples pockets, we'll steal anything that's not nailed down. See how that "logic" works both ways?

    Bottom line is you're just trolling. I know the role you played in the initial split way back when. Coming here just to stir up that old trouble won't end well. This is a thief forum, like it or not. Nobody is forcing you to read it.
     
  13. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    So the blatant inaccuracy of the title of the forum and its description are fine because you FEEL you're a thief. You may be a thief, that's pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. The description and name of the forum do not accurately encompass what is contained in this forum.

    Is it not legitimate to discuss renaming or at least changing the description to what is included here? The actual content is almost nowhere near what the description of this forum would have you believe.

    I believe the "PvP thief" forum pretty accurately sums up what is contained there. Stealing in a manner that is detrimental to someone else. That includes the much dislike Persuasion thieves, the brigand thieves, general pick pockets, and there is a fuzzy amount about faction theft.

    You're clearly very invested in some old grudge about the split. I won't address more of this little quote because to do so would be to give in to your attempt to derail the thread. This is a discussion about making sure the name and description of a profession forum accurately encompass what is included within the forum... Nothing more, nothing less. No hidden agenda.

    A discussion about potentially renaming or perhaps just redescribing a forum to accurately include what is discussed there is trolling? Friend, I have no hidden agenda. I genuinely am very confused why you're defensive about a move for accuracy. I would hope the names and descriptions of any forum accurately tell us WHAT is included within.. It cuts down on confusion, it makes it easier to navigate and most importantly it helps new users to stratics and the game.


    I won't derail this. Perhaps we can come up with some suggestions for accurate wording?
     
  14. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    This forum is for the discussion of the Stealing skill (pertaining to artifact hunting and Non-PvP uses), Hiding, Stealth, Ninjitsu, Lockpicking (as it pertains to dungeon and town chests), Disarming Traps and Detecting Hidden.
     
  15. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    This is a forum that focuses on people who steal stuff. The act of physically taking something that is not yours to begin with.

    As far as I'm concerned this forum's wording is 100% accurate.
    All that other garbage is beside the point.


    As far as derailing the thread, don't worry about it. I split this one off the daily rares thread so you wouldn't continue to derail that thread with nonsense about changing a forum name that is perfectly fine. You can just run wild in here with your suggestions.
     
  16. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I named the forum
    I made the FAQ
    I wrote the description
    I even play a non-pvp thief - 2 actually.
    And now I'm going to 'abuse' my power and have the last word.
    And that word is: Locked.
     
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