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On Greater Dragons

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Guest, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    After discovering the greater dragons made it to the production shards, I rushed off to commit reptilian suicide. After observing a good number of greater dragons I estimate their best stats are:

    1100 to 2000 hp
    1400 str
    660 int

    Resists:<ul>
    [*]85 physical
    [*]90 fire
    [*]55 cold
    [*]60 poison
    [*]75 energy
    [/list]
    Skills:<ul>
    [*]145 wrestling
    [*]140 tactics
    [*]140 magic resist
    [*]140 magery
    [*]both evaluate int and meditation about 50
    [/list]
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just out of curiosity, what are the highest stats you've seen spawn in the flesh? Or are those spawned ones? Just be handy to know what everyone's seen spawning.

    I did find one pathetic specimen with 1071 hits, but that's the lowest I've seen so far. I haven't found better stats than those I posted in the other thread yet.

    Wenchy
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've seen many with around 1350 hp. The highest hp I tamed was 1848 (924 after taming). I admit 2000 as a max maybe be a little optimistic. I've seen dragons with resists and skills very close to what I wrote about though.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Aye, I think your resists are spot on, and apart from the hp I would say stats too. At least until I find some non-conforming git of a beast lol.

    It would be good if all the skills over GM were maxed at the same level. I've seen a few over 136 in wrestling and magery. Not confirmed the rest but I think you should be proved right there too.

    Wenchy
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm being asked for the maximum figures on a tamed one.

    No idea what to say, any suggestions?
     
  6. 984 Was best hits sorry i dint record rest or dont rem them
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *evil grin*

    Tell them to lore their own 'cos they're new pets? [​IMG]

    Don't think we're quite ready to say we know how high some of the maxes are till more tamers get out and look at them properly. I'm not sure how hard people worked the spawn on TC1.

    Wenchy
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    heh, can't Wenchy, it's Terry doing the asking. [​IMG]

    His tamer doesn't have enough lore to check them when wild I don't think. I can't remember how much you need to lore untamed creatures. He has just gm.

    Looking at the figures on here, either they're not quite the same as the test ones, or I got the runt of the litter.

    GvP's post in the other thread (which I just found) list 714 as minumum hp after taming, but my poor pet only has 632.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well i tamed 3 today and my own one has:
    960hp
    577 mana/int
    60 dex/stamina
    607 Str

    76 Physical
    88 Fire
    49 Cold
    56 Poison
    74 Energy

    got 119.6 magery too but i cant remember the melee skills before i tamed it, but i think they werent that good so i better find another one with really great skills
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Nice one! I guess 2000 hp isn't too crazy a guess after all. After taming hp is halved I believe.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *giggles* aye, best be nice in that case Petra [​IMG]

    Well my first average greater draggy is tamed, but I think he'll get upgraded heh.

    Hits 812
    Stam 57
    Int 588
    Str 609

    Resists 85/81/55/59/68

    Only magery above GM - 112.3

    They're good fun to tame lol.

    Wenchy
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't doubt you since it seems an odd place to draw a maximum, it's just that the highest hp I've seen with my own two peepers is 970hp.

    @ Lilitu I suspect you're pretty close and thanks for the detective work!
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    These big boys also use bleed attack, i've been hit more than twice with their bleed attack when trying to tame so im guessing they still do it once tamed
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    These big boys also use bleed attack, i've been hit more than twice with their bleed attack when trying to tame so im guessing they still do it once tamed

    [/ QUOTE ]Yes, they continue to use their bleed special after being tamed. [​IMG]

    Aren't they the cutest things?! [​IMG]
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Aren't they the cutest things?!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, ive always thought that Dragons were the "cutest things". I still hunt regularly with my 2 7xGM's. Had them for many a year.

    You know I wouldnt touch a Cu with a barge pole, but its very interesting to see the "i love Cu brigade" fawning over these new beasts. Talk about loyalty. Glad youre all starting to see the light [​IMG]

    The king is dead. Long live the king!
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Goodness, whatever made you think I hunt exclusively with cu sidhes?

    Cu's are great at some stuff, and they flat-out stink for other stuff.

    I regularly hunt with everything in my stable and with 14 (of which only 3 are pups) that's a broad spectrum of pets.

    To me, it's all about the best critter for the job.

    Heck, Crafty, even Basil, my giant rat, gets plenty of love! [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am jealous! [​IMG]

    this is best one I got (HP wise), thanks to my guildmates Aidon and Jasmenia

    954 HP
    632 STR
    45 DEX
    520 INT

    63/65/52/59/57

    102.5 magery =/ =)


    then i got this one by myself:

    813 HP
    606 STR
    54 DEX
    584 INT

    73/83/41/58/60

    112.6 magery (74.3 med, lol, took me awhile)


    for the resists, I think we have those down. but my 954 hp dragon spawned with 1980 hp, so it should have been 990 hp, right? wrong [​IMG], only 954.

    just an edit, when the 954 blesses, it goes to 1,025! :O lol it was over 2,000 blessed when wild ;D
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Dragons have always been my favourite pet on UO, it was the first decent pet i ever got back in the day when you could get one with like 65 taming etc, but then i lost my 7xGM dragon to a stable bug, so i started to train up another one, got it to like 5xGM then my account got hacked and all my pets released [​IMG] so i just gave up on dragons which i never should of, i started to use a WW which i was given by a mate, they are cool too but not as cool as dragons. This for me is like the best thing to happen to tamers in a looooong time! I love my dragons [​IMG]
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Okay, the resists look spot on I think, but Anat and Med start at 0 I thought, on fresh. I am almost certain that Wrestling, Tactics, and Resist drop 28% from display when tamed, and Sarphus says you can train them back up to 90% of their original numbers (translation: more time required for training)

    I still don't understand how stats work. My 954 has 50 dex and 45 stamina. It spawned with 88 dex :/. I tamed it first try, so there is no way it could have gained up to 100 dex for a 50 split, and I just don't understand why dex and stamina would part ways ;P. Disappointing, to say the least.

    Stranger still, it spawned with 1193 STR, and when tamed, had 632. Keep in mind all numbers are lored after the fact, so Blesses and such are not messing up the data [​IMG]

    these dragons are driving me nuts
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I did a quick spreadsheet to see if the %'s all worked out right so we could know what a wild draggy would tame as. Taking the max spawn stats and skills Lilitu provided us with (thank you [​IMG] ) I've tried to simulate what they'd look like as a fresh tame and as a fully trained monster.

    The fresh tamed super draggy I've calculated, looses the following after taming. Please correct anything I've messed up, as there's bound to be something [​IMG]

    Hits, stamina and strength all lose 50% Stamina didn't quite work out "on the nail" of 50% in my spreadsheet, but the difference looks negligible.

    Mana seems to drop 5-6% on taming.

    Resists stay the same obviously [​IMG]

    Skills - wrestle, tactics, resist, anat, eval and med all drop 28%. Anat and med spawn at 0, but if it gains during beating up, their skill seems to drop 28% too.

    Magery drops by 10% only.

    Then we're saying that they can train to 90% of their spawn value in skills. Am I understanding that right? Otherwise my figures are a bit fluffed [​IMG]

    So, here's how I think super draggy looks after taming:

    [NB we now have new highs for mana (675) and dex (139) where were used to produce the following]

    Hits - 1000
    Stam - 70
    Mana - 637
    Str - 700

    Resists: 85/90/55/60/75

    Skills -

    Wrestle - 104.4
    Tactics - 100.8
    Resist - 100.8
    Anat - 72 (if it GMs before you tame it [​IMG])
    Magery - 126
    Eval Int - 72 (as for anat)
    Medi - 72 (as for anat)


    If we train this beastie, assuming what I said above, I'm estimating it looks like this -

    Hits - 1000
    Stam - 125
    Mana - 637
    Str - 700

    Resists: 85/90/55/60/75

    Skills -

    Wrestle - 135.0
    Tactics - 126.0
    Resist - 126
    Anat - 100
    Magery - 126
    Eval Int - 100
    Medi - 100

    If I've botched up any calculations, please let me know and I'll edit.

    Wenchy

    [EDIT: - removed lower skill caps now the higher caps are confirmed. Yay!
    - increased spawn dex to 139, mana to estimated 637
    - amended wrestling max when trained, reduced skill caps on other skills until there is evidence of gains over GM]
     
  21. OK folks.. here on BAJA shard, I Kid you NOT... pretamed 2061 hp after tame 995! After tamed blessed hit points 1021! I didn't get the rest. I got mine early in the day.. (962 hp) and then helped others all day long. These fun loving beasties have a full range of hitting and hurting, I can say from experience! Some of those are little love nips... some are rip yer arm off and beat ya with it! Great fun!

    LORD Yalp of ZENTO, CTDM
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What to say. If i got one whit perfect stats and resist i wouldent crye if he only was gm in all the skills.

    Gahhhh im so tempted to start playing again
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    What to say. If i got one whit perfect stats and resist i wouldent crye if he only was gm in all the skills.

    Gahhhh im so tempted to start playing again

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Likewise... I don't even loook at the skills on them when making a "keep or kill" decision.

    First I glance at the hp to see if it's 1400+ (I don't see HP as being the #1 most important thing on them)

    Then I look at the resists. I think if you have near max resists on one of these dragons, your dragon will outperform a max hp dragon with bad resists when it comes to fights where your dragon is getting hit for large amounts of damage.

    I'd much rather be able to completely heal the damage my dragon is taking with just my greater heal spell (and no med) than have a dragon that firebreathes for tons of dmg and has tons of hp.

    These dragons seem to firebreath pretty hard even when they're almost dead, which implies that maybe firebreath damage is at least partially based on either base dmg or max total hp btw. By almost dead, I mean &lt; 40% hp (not at a sliver)

    The interesting thing about these dragons is that there are several viable strategies when it comes to picking stats for your dragon. If your character is designed to do lots of damage using his own skills and the pet is just secondary, it makes lots of sense to have a dragon that's effectively a tank for you.

    It also makes sense to try to get a dragon that specializes in doing a lot of burst damage. For this you would go for high HP, str and tactics.

    It also makes sense to try to have a dragon that becomes a better tank by just not being hit as much. For this you focus on wrestling and resists become secondary.

    I haven't run the numbers yet, but I suspect a discorded target would have a really hard time landing blows on a dragon with 135 wrestling. Another benefit to really high wrestling is that it increases both the HCI AND DCI of the dragon. A very nice benefit.

    Another viable strategy is to focus on high total resists for tanking monsters that split their damage across all resists (a few relevant monsters do this).

    My plan is to just keep going for high quality dragons and decide exactly what I want when I have a nice collection of solid dragons. I have one that has near max resists in everything but cold and 912 hp. I tamed that one on the first day and I still think it's my best dragon. I also have a dragon that has 350+ total resists, but lower HP. I suspect both dragons will be relevant in a certain context.

    Right now I am leaning toward getting a dragon that has 900+ HP and very high total resists. I specifically want near max in phys and fire reisist. I'm not worrying about skills, but I would love to have high wrestling on there as well because I like having high HCI/DCI on my pet. I suspect it will easily take a year to get a dragon like I want even though I can go through dragons pretty fast.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As Wenchkin said, wrestling skills drops more than magery skill after taming. I did notice something very interesting though. I've tamed some dragons with very high wrestling such that they ended up with gm+ skill after taming. Now when I took them for a test (they do well at Melisande [​IMG]) I noticed wrestling skill was gaining beyond gm skill! This particular one raised wrestling from 100.4 to 100.8.

    I suspect that while wrestling may drop 28% after taming, the cap for the skill doesn't drop as much. Perhaps only 10% like magery does. Unless it's a bug of course. [​IMG]

    Training the dragon to find what its skill cap is seems like good fun though... [​IMG]
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Aye, I've just been looking for different stats myself, so I haven't started to train any yet. I'm very interested to see how high everything goes after training [​IMG]

    Wenchy
     
  26. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    Ah, I didn't see this thread when I posted mine. Maybe some mod could merge them.
     
  27. minick

    minick Guest

    A few questions if you please...
    1.) How do the skills go above 100 after training? Is there not a cap? The same doesn't hold true as does say, the runey with under 100's after taming going only to 100, etc?

    2.) I havent tried taming yet (always late), but there is a dude on my shard that insists that they must be peaced to tame. I've seen plenty of evidence on these posts to the contrary. I've soloed everything I own one way or another. I've got alot of exp with lead taming hostiles (relatively),and can dig up a 70's suit, especially phys and fire. Any suggestions? Does the draggy need to be beat down (no easy task I'm guessing).

    Thanks friends,
    Maynard Keenan....Chessy
     
  28. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    they dont have to be peaced to tame although it makes it easier to tame when its not eating you
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Most of those look good, but Eval will not go past 100 (listed as 126).

    What Sarphus suggests, and, I am willing to believe, say wrestling is set at 150, as he explained in an earlier post. What happens when you tame the dragon is the wrestling drops 28% down to 108, with the possibility to rise back up to 90% of the original number of 150 (or a 10% drop from the original 150), or 135. Thus, if a dragon can have 150 wrestling max at spawn, it can have a max possible wrestling of 135 when fully trained, but when tamed, it will only have a starting max of 108. I still need to do a bit more training to test the results first hand, but so far, the results seem promising.
     
  30. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    A few questions if you please...
    1.) How do the skills go above 100 after training? Is there not a cap? The same doesn't hold true as does say, the runey with under 100's after taming going only to 100, etc?

    2.) I havent tried taming yet (always late), but there is a dude on my shard that insists that they must be peaced to tame. I've seen plenty of evidence on these posts to the contrary. I've soloed everything I own one way or another. I've got alot of exp with lead taming hostiles (relatively),and can dig up a 70's suit, especially phys and fire. Any suggestions? Does the draggy need to be beat down (no easy task I'm guessing).

    Thanks friends,
    Maynard Keenan....Chessy

    [/ QUOTE ]
    1. Most pets when they are tamed suffer a skill drop of 10% on all skills. If after they are tamed they have a skill, or skills, that is over 100, that will be the cap for that pet. For all other skills the cap is 100. However there are two pets for which there is an exception, reptalons, and the new greater dragons.

    On those pets certain skills suffer a 28% skill drop when they are tamed. For reptalons this is wrestling, for greater dragons, wrestling, tactics, and resisting spells. However, those skills will still train back to their original, untamed skill minus 10% or 100, whichever is higher. With greater dragons, the three skills that suffer a 28% penalty will always train back to over 100 because the lowest range of each of those three skills, X .9, will be over 100.

    2. That person that says that all pets need to be peaced to be tamed doesn't know what he or she is talking about, or isn't expressing him or herself very clearly. If you paralyse then tame pets will suffer a 14% skill drop instead of a 10% skill drop after taming. For most pets this doesn't matter, but for pets that will have skills over 100 after taming this will lower their skill cap.

    For greater dragons their resisting spells is so high that para taming (paralysing then taming) won't work anyway. Peacing them is also extremely difficult, although I've heard it can be done. For the most part you have to either lead tame these dragons, or use honour to tame them. Lead taming is extremely challenging, and if you use honour you will probably need at least level two honour, and even then, you may not get it tamed before your honour protection runs out.

    As for beating them down. If you beat them down their fire breath will do less damage, however if you beat them down too much (10% health I think approximately) they will start to teleport like mad, and this can make lead taming extremely challenging as well. My advice is to not bother beating them down. Beating them down can take a very long time, they cast heal on themselves a lot, and they also seem to regenerate hits faster than normal dragons, so in my opinion, just make sure you have good fire and physical resists, and take your lumps.

    If you weren't a skilled lead tamer before you start trying to tame greater dragons, you will probably be one before long if you stick to it... [​IMG]
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I haven't gone through all the other threads yet, but I'll amend the wrestle to spawn of 150, tamed at 108 and trained to max at 135.

    For the sake of caution, I'll edit the skill caps after training and if we get any draggies exceeding what's listed, I'll update them. My initial thought was that wrestle would go up above GM after taming, magery wouldn't and all the other skills would cap at GM. I think that's the safest assumption at this stage.

    Wenchy
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    stay with 145; seems Sarphus and Llewen like this and have not found any 150 (I was just trying to repeat, verbatim, the math Sarphus went with; 150 cleans up nicer than 145 when taking it down 10% ;P)
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oki, have tweaked the newly tamed wrestling max back to reflect max spawn cap of 145.

    Wenchy
     
  34. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I can confirm that int does go higher than 660. I saw one today at 666, so I'm guessing closer to 675.
     
  35. minick

    minick Guest

    Thanks for the advice Llewen, sound as usual. The "beat down" took forever and pretty much helped only the breath to decrease, and slow him down a little. But , alas, I was forced to retire last night around 2a after being killed 8 times , and still no drag...In fact, after about an hour, I probably only got the blue, "you beging taming" words 5 times. And only twice did it go to the end of the attempt without him biting/teleporting/, etc.....very, very, frustrating.

    On the other hand, judging from the posts and the pictures, others are having plenty of success...especially the guy some time back complaining that they're "too easy". Please.

    I do agree that I too thought they would spawn less often.

    Well, off to die..I mean tame...some more

    Ty again Llewen

    Maynard
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oki, calculations above are now amended to work with spawn of 675 mana and 139 dex.

    I'm keeping my skill train caps the same just now, then once we know the hard cap on our draggies I'll edit accordingly.

    Wenchy
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just amended figures on the top of page 2 to show the confirmed skill caps *yay*

    Also corrected the max eval as it doesn't seem to spawn anywhere near GM, so won't train beyond GM. This is when someone says otherwise lol.

    Wenchy