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OSI/EAM There is no longer a Need to Kill Tamers (Players) when your client crash's

Discussion in 'UHall' started by EnigmaMaitreya, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    The parts of this discussion from elsewhere. There may be strange references that I have left out due to people trying to trash the thread, meaning they had nothing useful to say.

    Also I do not see a Tamer forum so I am using this forum and this of course applies to all class's not just tamers.

    With any kind of luck there wont be any of the .... well connected attack dogs come barking here :) but I tend to doubt it as they are just hard core griefers :(

     
  2. I disagree. It should be left alone they have it easy enough as it is.
     
  3. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    So basically, you're angry because they put in something unnecessary that almost all of the tamers begged for for years and the devs wisely ignored until recently? But not BECAUSE it was unwise, but because the thing we don't really need doesn't work specifically to your liking?
     
  4. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Not quite sure I understand your complaint with me.

    I am not clear were I advocate they change the pet stabling concept or construct.

    I advocate they simply place people that go LD in a state they can not be attacked, in the case of a tamer that can (DOES NOT MEAN THEY NEED TO, it means it is an option) also include the pet(s)/Follower(s) and then place them in the stable once the log off happens?

    I advocate they correct the coding issue where, for example, if I go LD with my Greater Dragon, the GD is gone and I have NO contgyrol slots left open. I can NOT mount an Ethereal Mount I can not temporarily tame anything to assist in retrieving my corpse. You can not seriously believe that the intent of the desing and code was to consume the control slots with a stabled follower can you? If so then Ok I get your position and lets just move on as we wont agree.

    I am curious what in my position is it that you see were I advocate causing any problem for tamers or people that go LD?

    Are you seriously advocating that Tamers and others should be auto killed because any one of a hundred ways, they can be disconnected from their character? I do not think you are but your insistence in portraying that I werll want something that I cant quite figure out what your accusing me of wanting that is harmfull to tamers and others that are disconnected from their character.
     
  5. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    He he Ok, I get the Tamer reference :) BUT you do realize this applies to all class's as in if a Router intgernal to the EAM data center goes down N number of all class's will be disconnected from the shard and those that are engaged or were their items can not keep them alive will be dead?
     
  6. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    No, but I also don't think they should be treated specially and protected in ways other players aren't (warriors don't get saved like that if a shard crashes, why should pets?), and the fact that they did it is open to so many issues anyway. My problem isn't really with your suggestion.. more it's with the whole mechanic in the first place, and that you're complaining about something everybody asked for just because something about it isn't right to you. While I can see your frustration, it's what the majority begged for and I doubt anything else will be done about it.. the devs probably did things to the best of their abilities considering the generally constrictive nature of this game's programming.
     
  7. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Crysta, let us break things out here.

    I was not here for the original advocacy of the Pet Stabling so they didnt wonder off and get lost. I can not sppeak to what they would or would not have wanted on that subject. I limit myself to the fact that when the GD is stabled it is still consuming the control slots and I can do nothing. A rather dumb example would be if a Warrior did not insure their weapon and it was on their corpse and they tried to pick a weapon up and wield it they were being told they could not do so because they already had a weapon wilded but obviously do not and do not fight as if they did.

    My other point is the entire construct of be left vulnerable when you are disconnected (and this goes to all class's) was not the way UO was originally. It was changed because PKr's were complaining that people were cheating death by disconnecting the modem or forcing the client to crash. This obviously cause grief and frustration for everyone being ... (my words) punished for this choice when they did nothing wrong and were not exploiting anything. I am simply advocating that choice needs to be removed as it is no longer applicable. I use the tamer because it is the most obvious, but I genuinely include every one.
     
  8. Yes, the reason for the Tamer reference is because you mentioned Tamers. It may apply to anyone who is disconnected and regardless of that not always being your fault doesn't make it anymore theirs (EA/Mythic or whoever runs this shin dig these days). You talk about them being stuck with five follower slots and no pet and that they can't tame anything else or summon an ethy (if with a greater dragon) but the time it takes to do those things isn't greatly under the time it takes to re-log and bring your pet right back to where you are anyway.

    The auto stable feature is constantly abused as it is.
    What your advocating is in essence auto stable for players which regardless of intentions would be heavily abused.

    You said (in your reply to the other person) that it is no longer aplicable, but how is it not? I could quite easily unplug my modem on the middle of a fight if I was about to lose. (Not that I would neccessarily bother but theres plenty who would)
     
  9. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    I am not able to discuss your position on the auto stable as I don't see (as in I am clueless) the exploit there unless of course your referring to PvP. If that is the case then as far as I am concerned it is part and parcel to the 2nd part of your reply (well 3rd as I removed the first part)

    We can have a peeing amtch here, I can as easily claim the reason PvP people want to keep this the way it is, is so they have a Risk Free Kill and griefing of a PvP tamer or any unlucky NoN PvPr that got caught in Fel and was disconnected by something other than their own fault.

    I would prefer to not go down either path as I do not believe either path reflects the majority of players.

    I do concede that some PvP will would use this proposal to escape death. BUT on the other hand for PvM I am not advicating relocating them or their pet. I am advocating they get left right were they are when they log back in.


    The basis for the request is that my belief is in the Player Base of UO, that majoritivly that base has grown up and away from that kind of thinking.

    At any rate I do concede your points but I do not perceive them as compelling, for the reasons I have stated. I may be wrong about the UO player base, but my experience over the last 4 months is that I am not wrong.
     
  10. I am not refering to PvP, in regards to auto stable, a player is fighting something with their pet (a vanguard for example) it spawns a load of stuff and the pet is overwhealmed and begins to die. The tamer only has to move half a screen away and log out to save their pet and bring it out of the fight where they can then heal it back up and return to the fight. That is commonly used, pets hardly ever die because of it. It is so effective that people with unbonded pets can still use them with no fear of losing them.

    Again (not sure why you've turned this in to PvP/PvM issue) it is equally applicable both sides of the moongate. Die and lose your stuff/insurance or become invincible until your able to log back in, what do you think players are going to choose?

    I know your not advocating relocating them and never said you were. It has always been the case at least in the 8 or so years I've played that unless you log at an inn or house your friended to unless flagged your character will stay there for five minutes (not sure if it changed to two?). The reason for this has come up many times and they have commented many times that they couldn't change it anyway regardless of any misuse issues. (I don't have a link to where they said this)

    I think your belief is somewhat misguided as in my experience the player base has gotten younger and more inclinded to use questionable tactics.
     
  11. Googly

    Googly Guest

    If your client crashes a lot, you have a PC issue that needs to be solved. Try turning off the music, for one. This seems to get rid of 90% of crashing issues. Otherwise, get yourself a nice battery backup system and a better modem. Router giving you trouble? Get a long Ethernet wire and direct connect.

    Whats the penalty for dieing? The time it takes to get rezzed?

    They took out tram looting rights. Go back to your corpse and get your stuff back.

    Insure the stuff. If its highly valuable and can't be insured, send it via your bag of sending (and don't give me that "its nerfed" crap. It still works. If you cant afford the extra powder, go make your own.).

    Too much mob around your corpse to get back to it? Go train honor. Even tamers can. I'm almost a Knight of Honor on my tamer.

    Fact is, dieing happens. But, in the trammel rule set facets, you don't lose a dang thing but a few thousand gold in insurance, and maybe a few measly gold piles and other items if you, for some odd reason, cant get back to your body.

    Allowing what you're saying simply opens up room for abuse. Where-as not having it means people have to take the few minutes out of their busy hunting schedule to go get rezzed.
     
  12. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Ah well now I kniow why my pet is dieing all the time :( but then again I could not bring myself to perform that tactic as in the end all I do is cheat myself of the entertainment value of the game.

    Thanks for the heads up on what is being done, it really never occurred to me to do that.

    The rest we appear to simply disagree on and hopefully we understand each others position. Disagree on as in NOT saying one side is right and one side is wrong, rather neither is compelled to believe the other side is the best solution.

    BUT in my opinion, bring all the perspectives out and have them be adequatly advocated is what is best for UO, even if it results in the status quoe.
     
  13. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Tamers shouldn't be protected in a way that other classes aren't. If we drop con, we already have the advantage of pets being autostabled, which is more than enough IMHO.

    In the old system if your PC died while your tamer was out, any non mounts were left where you stood. I've lost several pets irretrievably before the arrival of autostabling, and luckily a friend has saved my pets for me on other occasions when he found my pets wild at my home. I'm very glad to have autostable, even if I have the odd death when my pets vanish. To me, a well trained pet is more important than any insurance gold and a few reagents.

    I usually just get a res, invis, then relog to bring my pets back.

    Wenchy
     
  14. We do.

    (On a side note it's refreshing to have a civilized discussion - to me, the usual lack of that happening also attests to the player bases age and mentality)
     
  15. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Wenchy, if you dont minde, I would like to make sure I understand your assertion that Tamers are protected.

    I am assuming your referring to the Auto Stable and not some thing else that yet again I am clueless about (as Lord God pointed out).
     
  16. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    He thanks for the Heads up and if I see some one doing that exploit, I will leave them high and dry. I do not take well to that game play and honestly I feel very uncomfortable with some of the changes that were considered exploits when I was playing UO. I get it that it has become expected, I do not agree it should have ever gotten that to that stage.

    As an addendum, it has been my experience in EQ and previously in UO that the powers that be, prefer to read/observe an exchange of positions and stay out of it. The goal being they can see the thinking of the Player Base, Lead by the Player base and not being lead by players thinking the powere are saying this or that.

    So I totally agree the ability to present the varying view points/positions and have them adequately advocated is a wonderous thing indeed and as far as I am concerned has done more to influence the direction of UO and EQ than any other Powers that be - Player interaction.
     
  17. It's not particularly an exploit as such. Just another case of poor design. It's always been the case in my opinion that they put things in the game then ask what harm does it do rather than ask the only two questions design should follow before implementing it. (Is it needed at all & does it do what it's supposed to be doing and nothing more)

    Thats not to say they can't put in things that are just for the fun of it there used to be things like that, but UO is (and has been for a long time) in the all or nothing stage. Something is usually either over powered or useless. (not always over powered in itself but in what it can allow to be done)

    Though all of thats just my opinion, I'm not a developer or designer have no training in such areas and am generally happy to leave it up to them. That doesn't mean though that I can't spot the inherant flaws in pretty much everything added to the game (other than house customising) just that I try not to make threads about every little thing. If I did I would be on here all day. House customising is I still believe the only thing they've ever done to this game excluding one or two unforseen bugs involving duping and security that occured later, that was designed fairly well from the offset. (Most of the bugs with it were the result of other items rather than the house design system itself)
     
  18. Dexdash

    Dexdash Guest

    OSI/EAM There is no longer a Need to Kill Tamers (Players) when your client crash


    i love how this title sounds like the devs are personaly out to get tamers.

    Dude when your computer crashes sometimes you die. I you dont like it hunt with a friend that cand invis you. nothing needs to change.

    I was in a faction fight the other night and a budy of mine crashed in the middle of 10 opposing pvpers. invis off and he lived tada!
     
  19. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Here we are in agreement, these are design/coding flaws. *Shrug* I consider anything the player does to circumvent a game device is an exploit, I wouldn't get hung up here as the difference in meaning is trivial to non existent and mostly would be consistent we people play styles. I am not closed minded and think O Johnny is doing that so Johnny is bad. I wouldn't even think of coming from that place. I want the best possible entertainment from anything I am doing. Risking and dieing is a part of that. Learning to avoid the mistake is the meat behind No Pain No Gain.

    In that vein, I am not opposed to dieing and my pet dies as well, as long as I the player had the fate of our virtual lives in my hand and not mandated to me by a decision.

    I fully get Wenchy's place of preserving the well trained pet. I really do. I really hate it when my pet dies due to my own misjudgments, I pee and moan and kick the Virtual Ground, but it was my bad, my mistake and I can learn from it to be a better UO Tamer and I will grudgingly pay the price of retraining the pet.
     
  20. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Aye, I don't want tamers themselves protected while our pets are safe with auto stabling. Just doesn't feel fair on other characters when they are fully exposed to the same risks.

    If we then said "ok, let's immediately remove all players from game if they drop con" that would probably bring a new form of abuse, not to mention lurers who claim to have dropped con when they actually logged out to cause the monsters to target you instead. I think it's a can of worms we shouldn't open :)

    Wenchy
     
  21. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    They should remove it from the game completely.

    Too many players abuse it to get thier pets to places, when they should not be able to without sumomn balls.

    Also too many players abuse it for other things...