1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

OT: Red Cross having to borrow money for current relief efforts

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Skylark SP, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10,746
    Likes Received:
    8
    The Red Cross is expecting the cost for relief efforts from hurricane Gustav to come close to $70M, and was forced to borrow money to cover immediate costs (their $30M domestic relief fund was wiped out in early summer after providing assistance with the mid-west floods). As of last week they had raised only around $5M from contributions to cover the debt. Now they are having to open additional shelters and provide even larger scale relief for victims of Ike. They are borrowing the money for that as well.

    This made the local news for my area, and probably did for many others.

    The Red Cross had to borrow for the first time in its history in 2005, after Katrina. They have spent a total of $2 BILLION in relief efforts in the past 2 - 3 years for just 2 storms: Katrina and Rita.

    Several other non-profit groups such as the Salvation Army have also taken a big hit, spending far more in relief efforts than they have taken in donations for recent disasters, but none come even close to the scale of the Red Cross. They operate almost exclusively from private donations...they receive very little in Federal funds.

    They are planning to launch a massive donation campaign to try to cover the debt.

    -Skylark
     
  2. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    Do not get me started.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    Sorry that last post probably came off very wrong, I just get very frustrated about how our tax dollars are alocated.
     
  4. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,384
    Likes Received:
    4,707
    Let's not confuse the issues.
     
  5. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    425
    I don't think she is confusing the issue at all. Its a shame that a charity group has to come up with creative ways to cover disaster relief funds, while our government sends millions and millions to other countries when they need help after natural disasters.

    I'll stop there to avoid turning this into a rant. >.<
     
  6. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Yes it is bad enough that our tax money is used to air lift/rescue the 40% of the population that did not evacuate. Let's keep it on topic.
     
  7. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    I am glad I am not the only one who sees serious problems in our government.
    I can't send money but I will make extra effort over the next few months to donate my time.
    Thank you Sky for starting this thread.

    [​IMG]
    The youth replied " It made a diffrence to that one"

    Remember the starfish!
    Random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
     
  8. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yes that too is sad. I say let darwinisim take it's toll.

    Drinking in a bar?? *shakes head in disgust*
     
  9. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    I am reminded of the plans after Katrina for a gov't buyout of land to return to wetlands as a buffer zone, that never happened. If you live in a disaster-prone area, you need to accept potential consequences and have plans in place.

    That is harsh yes, but it is the truth. I am sorry if this thread is ruined.

    [edit] Let's keep it on topic.[\edit]

    PS. I am a poor college student and I have more principle than cash.
     
  10. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    "The Red Cross had to borrow for the first time in its history in 2005"

    WOW!
    Well my thoughts/best wishes/prayers go out to all who are providing relief from this latest storm.
     
  11. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    If you didn't evacuate, that makes you an idiot and IMO you should be considered a criminal for ignoring a government request. Now others(most likely me included) have to leave their families to go save you because your scrap books and antique lamp were too close to your heart to allow them to be swept away by a storm. Ridiculous.
     
  12. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    15
    Good thing we don't live in a fascist state, eh?
     
  13. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    I don't believe the people that stay back are necessarily bad people, just negligent. This is panning out to be the biggest search in American history. So big every unit in my state is on high alert, including mine which is currently finishing a deployment in Iraq. To waste more tax dollars, and lives in the effort to find those that stayed behind infuriates me. We have guys getting pulled from their jobs, college schedules, etc to look for these folks. I'm glad to do my job, and will enjoy the travel and experience, but I'm not happy for the reason it's happening.
     
  14. Patty Pickaxe

    Patty Pickaxe Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,955
    Likes Received:
    8
    I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. If you CHOSE to stay behind you should suffer the consequences of that CHOICE.
     
  15. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    15
    Let's not forget, especially in the case of Katrina, some people did not have the means to leave at all.

    I'll go no further, this is a touchy subject for me, as it hits close to home in many ways. I leave y'all to it...
     
  16. Sunchicken

    Sunchicken Guest

    My town in west Tennessee has been devistated by tornadoes 3 out of the last 10 years. Tornadoes tend to give you about 15 mins to get in safty.
    You tell me 2-4 days in advance there is going to be a tornado anywhere near me my arss is in the basement.

    What is exactly the amount of time they were telling these people to evacuate?
    Worse case senario i can walk/ jog a pretty good way in 2-4 days...
     
  17. Goron

    Goron Guest

    The schools in my town are very well funded. They provide excellent education and extracurricular activities. IF that were not the case, I would enroll my children into a private school and ensure they get a good education.

    I cannot legally purchase high explosives, and if Obama rolls into the white house I will likely not be able to legally purchase a semi automatic rifle capable of taking a detachable magazine of more than a couple of rounds.

    Please, explain to me how I am supposed to defend myself, my family, my country by myself with no legal access to military hardware?

    I rely on a well founded military to defend me, since I am not legally able to do so myself. I am legally able to send my children to a well funded (private, if necessary) school.

    To stay on subject, I also own insurance. Lots of it. I'm even the idiot that owns whole life insurance AND term life insurance. I have full coverage on my car, motorcycle, house (mind you I live on a hill, impossible flood risk...). I got health insurance, vision, dental... Safety money, roth ira, 401k...

    If I experience a major disaster, I am all set (or if I'm dead than my family is super well off). I don't need red cross I am capable of protecting myself in that context. I DO NEED national defense, I am not legally capable of protecting myself in that context.

    I think that 'the system' is working fine. It is currently possible for an individual to be financially/healthfully stable AND militarily defended (sic).
    Take away military spending and it is only possible for an individual to be financially/healthfully stable.
     
  18. Alrich

    Alrich Guest

    And also remember katrina had FAR FAR FAR less preparation and warning then Gustahv. They were given half a week to get the hell out of there. And it wasn't even a request, it was a mandate.

    People who stayed should deal with the consequences of their decision. Hell I'm sure there was forms of public transportation to evacuate too. If not, setting them up for future disasters is a much more worthy cause then having to being thousands of military down there with helicopters and boats to get people out.
     
  19. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10,746
    Likes Received:
    8
    OK...I have to comment on that since it is actually related to the original topic.

    Having insurance and making financial decisions to give ourselves a buffer in an emergency are most certainly highly recommended things, and anyone who can possibly afford them should avail themselves of such. Those of us who have taken such measures hope we never have a circumstance where we need to use those things. However, insurance claims and all those forms of protection often take a long time to come through, especially after a large scale disaster. After Katrina, I met and became friends with a couple, who were both claims adjusters with a large insurance carrier. They were from Texas but lived in my area for nearly 6 months, with a full complement of similarly transplanted staff from the parent company, and spent their time each day almost exclusively inspecting & assessing damaged property for homeowners to get claims processed.

    Do you think in the days right after the storm that some of the hundreds if not thousands of people waiting for insurance claims to be processed and disbursed had any need of some immediate assistance in terms of shelter, food, and water, while they figured out what to do/where to go? There were people waiting for weeks just to have trees and other debris removed from their property. There were building material and contractor shortages. Some areas took over 3 weeks to get utilities restored and roads unblocked, and flooding under control. My own house was without power for a week on 2 occasions after hurricanes spawned tornadoes ahead of the storm front, and I live 50 miles from the coast. At least we still had running water from municipal utilities for washing, and bottled water we had purchased in quantity prior to the storms, to drink. Some didn't. When hurricane Andrew hit Homestead, FL...it looked like a bomb had flattened the town. I had friends who lived there who lost everything they owned. They were in the military and at least were able to live with relatives in my area right after the storm, and then move into temporary base housing while the claim for their destroyed house was being processed.

    The Red Cross provides things people need immediately, such as a temporary shelter to stay in because their home is gone, and clean water in areas where the municipal water supply is contaminated due to pipeline breaks, sewer breaks & backups. Besides large scale disasters, they do this year round on every scale, down to helping individuals after a single house/apartment fire.

    This is an organization with a history of doing this for over 100 years. It is not a government agency, but it received an official charter to "mitigate suffering" caused by disaster from Congress early in its operations. To fulfill its charter, it relies on donations. It has run out of money, and is borrowing against the promise of future donations to provide relief NOW.

    Donating to and otherwise supporting a non-profit organization devoted to humanitarian efforts doesn't in any way put a seal of approval on any of the operations of our government, nor does it validate the selfish and unconcerned people who have placed a great burden on others through their foolish decisions. Please keep this in mind.

    Also, we need to keep in mind, over 50% of the U.S. population is concentrated in around 600 coastal counties. That's over 150 million people in easy reach of the coast. There is a reason that the population is so concentrated on coastal areas: industry built up around shipping lanes, and people settled first in those areas. While it can certainly be stated that some areas are stupid/high risk to build in and rebuild, especially places where builders have actually dredged marshlands/mangroves to create new land area, it is being unrealistic and oversimplifying things in the extreme to toss out comments such as "move" to people in what one may perceive as a high risk area when every coastal area has the potential to be affected by a devastating storm. We aren't going to pack up Miami, Houston, Louisiana, etc. and move them to the midwest. (Well, if we did, they would just get flooded there, without a hurricane. :p)

    Fortunately, I have never had to avail myself of the services of the Red Cross, but I donate to them regularly, and I'm glad they are there. I hope if I ever do need them, they will still be there, and able to help.

    -Skylark
     
  20. Goron

    Goron Guest

    I agree on pretty much all levels. I never wrote, or intended to deliver a message that red cross was useless [period]. But rather that I personally do not need the red cross as I have the means to protect myself from disaster in other ways. I completely understand not all people have those means and thus the red cross serves a great purpose. Please do not think I was trying to say red cross is bad.

    I was trying to say that gov't defense funding is required for my national safety, while gov't (or charity) wellness funding, gov't (or charity) education funding, etc. is not required for my wellness/education/etc.

    My post was entirely focused on the image I quoted.

    I made specific choices of where to live with my wellbeing in mind. You won't catch me living in an earthquake zone any time soon, or a flood area, or tornado area. And if an evac order comes thru for some weird reason, I'll frikin evac. I am choosing to live a protected life. I don't walk around dark alleys at night if I can avoid them, and if I can't avoid it, then I'll be carrying my m&p9. I mitigate my risks. I am also blessed with a higher socio-economic standing, so I am easily able to make financial decisions that protect me as well. The point is the decisions are possible.
    Maybe not all people can afford to make these decisions like I do, but they are possible to be made.

    I can not possibly make national defense decisions. Period. I cannot buy an armed tank, explosive bomb, or active mine. These decisions are absolutely impossible for me to make on all levels (legally...). Thus, gov't defense funding is very important to me. Other forms of funding (that support me in ways that I can support myself without the gov't/charitable org) are less valuable to me.
     
  21. Skylark SP

    Skylark SP Available Storage: 0
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2004
    Messages:
    10,746
    Likes Received:
    8
    I was pretty much replying to the whole thread in one, Goron...you just triggered the reply. I should have distinguished the reply cutoff/transition. :D

    -Skylark
     
  22. Goron

    Goron Guest

    ;-P

    Sorry, I did not want to seem hostile to you specifically.
    I just kinda realized my post seemed to come across as having an agenda beyond what I intended-
    "kill the babies" rather than "people seem to forget how important military funding is"
     
  23. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    Very well said Skylark.

    @ Goron
    Not everyone is as fortunate as you.
    I don't begrudge the military it's funding I just get very frustrated with how our tax dollars are spent.

    This situation of people refusing to evacuate reminds me of where I lived growing up. We built in a hilly area with a nice little creek, we built on the slope of the hill but our neighbors built on the floodplain... to make matters even worse they diverted the creek to flow past there breakfast nook window. Guess what after a few years we got a extra heavy rainfall and there home was flooded. Yes there insurance paid for it but it was there stupidity that the damage was done in the first place. How they got permits to build there I will never know because where they put there home would flood every 5-10 years, not a problem for the previous owners of the land who just used it for cows. So the outcome was higher insurance rates for everyone.

    EDIT: Several posts while I was typing this.
    @Speedy
    Thank you for serving our country
    and Goron I agree with you and don't think you came off as hostile.
    Again best wishes by all who are directly involved with this.
     
  24. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    This storm sucks, I spent 8 hours clearing and cutting trees just from the crab it left up north...I don't want to see what it did to Texas
     
  25. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    At least you have internet access!
    Keep up the good work.
     
  26. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Guest

    My Little opinion on this matter for what its worth, 1# Ex-military Medal winner in First iraq conflict. (Storm) so I have a bit of experience, about the matter....First, there should be aid avalible for our homeland of course, for those unfortunant members of our society that are UNABEL to work because of a disabilty or life threating health reasons.......that government help, I agree with all the way......

    So call me old fashon, but if we applyed a little Biblical principal here ie...."if you dont work, you shouldnt eat" alot of our finacial problems would be solved........If you shed innocent blood, you deserve the death penalty....done....over Billions upon Billions Saved!

    Im not trying to get a Religeous uproar here, its only my opinion

    The US is to much in the business of bailing out LAZY PEOPLE< and that pisses me off to no end, to lazy to get up off yer dead ass and get a job,

    if my familys welfare depended on it, i Would work and Mcdonalds if i had to to suport my family the best I could, I would do my best, and do it legally, yes it would be hard, and there would be many things I would have to Give up, But thats called sacrifice, thinking of someones else's welfare over yourself...the battle is being lost on the front lines of our familys....theres my rant.....Sry


    Fudd
     
  27. Goron

    Goron Guest

    And you'd be making OVER minimum wage too (at least in my town).
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,384
    Likes Received:
    4,707
    Just some random thoughts...

    The wise man said, "You can't fix stupid." Well, you can't. Can't fix stubborn either... The thread is not about that.

    I am all about 'swords to plow shares'... Your swords first. *stares* This thread is not about that.

    Compasion... Is it only for the deserving? Who is that judge? *shrugs*

    The average Red Cross volunteer leaves their prejudices, agendas, and personal dislikes at home. They pull out the moral compass and do the best they can for those in need.

    I am not so naive to believe that every person or administrator in the Red Cross is above approach. That is not the point either...

    The point is the Red Cross needs help, to help others. Give if you can. If not money call and see if there is any thing else they could use. An old blanket, an out of style warm coat, time fielding calls from good intentioned donors.
     
  29. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    i think donations from private citizens is a great thing, but im not sure the government should bail people out like they do....at least not to the extent they do....
     
  30. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yet agin Sir you amaze me.

    I would like to thank all who are participating in this thread and being civil and compasionate in there views.

    Best wishes to all.
     
  31. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0