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Our Ingot Scripter is Back...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Connor_Graham, May 27, 2008.

  1. I've been watching this vendor for about 3 weeks now, and am certain that this is either our recently departed ingots scripter, or someone that recently started scripting themselves as this operation just came into being a few weeks ago. What has me thinking that it's our old buddy with the burning houses spread across every shard is the format in which he names his vendors is the same as the ones at the previous locations.

    [​IMG]

    Looks like it's time for Draconi to get out his matches again.....;)
     
  2. Limlight

    Limlight Guest

    Dont suppose you have pics of "his other" vendors?
     
  3. His other vendors would be the ones that are on fire across every shard that Draconi had so much fun with.
     
  4. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    I think he meant ones from BEFORE they got all charred. :p
     
  5. woody

    woody Journeyman
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    think need a little more info before we judge vendor named ingot and gems with i lot of deeds does not cut it. Expecially if trying to say this is a big operation by a big time scripter.
     
  6. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I like the idea of being able to buy resources from a vendor instead of having to do the work myself.

    I say let them script, let everyone script. If scripting was allowed, then everyone would be on an even playing field.

    Instead it is illegal so most of us honest people suffer while the few cheaters get away with it. The only ones who lose in the end is us.. so I say it again, let everyone script and macro afk if they want.. who cares.
     
  7. Like I said in my OP, I've been watching this guy for a few weeks now. He's able to restock with thousands more ingots of every ore type as fast as they sell out. No one that isn't scripting and running multiple characters doing it can come up with thousands of Valorite, Verite and Agapite multiple times every single day. It's just not possible. He's not just stocking 1 or 2k worth either, he's stocking with 5-10k of every ore type, with Iron being stocked in 60k deeds, and multiples of those as well.
     
  8. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    This is no surprise.

    There is a char on Pac who recall mines unattended 24/7. She has been doing this for 4+ years.

    I've killed her hundreds of times and paged on her even more, but yet she's still here script mining ingots day and night.

    Scripting would be so easy to stop if the Devs actually gave a rat's arse about it. If a char performs the same actions for more than an hour or more than X number of times in a 24 hour period, the system should send up a big red flag.
     
  9. Vexxed

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    Heh.. Colter... try standing on the Small Trinsic Bank roof (Fel)... That's one of the favorite banking spots of a certain recall miner on PAC that I was told of and decided to check on. The funny part is a certain "HUGE" guild will showup if you decide to mess with the guy... ;)
     
  10. Dexdash

    Dexdash Guest

    i think script mining should be allowed in fell. and wee could make it the next event
     
  11. Script anything shouldn't be allowed anywhere and really needs some hard actions taken against it. If this is the same guy, he needs to get lit on fire again, and soon.
     
  12. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    OMG...its named Ingots-Gems and it holds ingots and gems. That must be the same person because hell I couldn't think of two people in the entire world that would name a vendor that sells ingots and gems Ingots-Gems.

    Also, if it takes a scripter to drop the price of iron ingots from 45 gp per to 10 gp per again then I welcome to the scripter and any like him that might want to constantly undercut everyone selling ingots until they are back at reasonable prices.
     
  13. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    It could be a group of people feeding that vendor. He could be buying low and selling high. He could be minig legitimately all day long. He could be selling out a stockpile of ingots he had for years. Just because you don't think it is possible to keep a vendor stocked with ingots doesn't mean it isn't.
     
  14. It's not the name, it's the format, as I said. Previously it was Ingots-Gems-Blackrock. He did the same things with the runes that he dropped everywhere. Normally people don't use this particular format on vendors and runes alike.

    45gp is a bit of an exaggeration don't ya think? I've been selling iron ingots for 12-13gp each for months, albeit I'm probably the lowest price on my shard. Pricing aside if the scripters weren't around driving off the people that actually enjoy mining, but can't compete with someone running multiple scripted characters, the prices wouldn't be as high as they are.
     
  15. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    OMG...if all you sold in your shop was Ingots-Gems and you marked your runes as Ingots-Gems you must be the same person. I mean I can't see why anyone would want to clearly mark their vendor runes with what the vendors have on them. Thats just umm...


    Nope. I've already seen them going for that on LS in Luna.

    The people that buy off of you probably resell for 45gp per or for 30gp per to Luna Vendors that sell for 45gp per. That is how the vast majority of vendors are stocked...people buy from people like you then double the price.

    Yes because those scripters are all over the entire realm of Felucca. Also, you can't kill them in Felucca with a paralyze + explosion + flamestrike on your own mule. Scripters have very little impact on "legitimate" miners in Felucca.
     
  16. Wow, the explanation of the FORMAT of the way he marks his business just went right over your head. Oh well....*shrugs*

    By all means then, let's just leave the scripters alone since they make the game easier for you.

    Nevermind all of the players scripters have run out of UO completely, nor any of the ones that have given up on PvP, Mining, Lumberjacking, or any other part of the game that scripters participate in.

    The game's easier for you and that's all that matters.....*rolls eyes*


    I suppose you have an explanation for the thousands upon thousands of ingots this guy has available to restock with multiple times per day. I'd love to hear it. It has been quite some time since I've read some good fiction...

    *waits for the sound of silence*
     
  17. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    HAHA.....do you even believe this crap when you write it??

    Yeah a scripter mining 24/7 collecting hundreds of thousands of ingots doesn't hurt the legitimate miner at all.

    Just like the gold farmer dumping millions upon millions of gold into the system doesn't hurt the economy at all.

    :wall:
     
  18. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    I agree. People need to worry more about themselves than what other players are doing. I think EA and the Dev's should turn a blind eye. At this point who cares...

    Why would you possibly want to ban or remove more of you playerbase when what they are doing is essentially harmless and the current playerbase is already dwindling?

    I don't understand why people get so upset over it. This isn't a game that is drawing more and more people into it. Many of the shards continue to thin out and UO is nowhere close to where it was in it's hayday. The game is more nostaligic than anything...

    Let paying customers do whatever they want with their 'time' in the game and that includes unattended macroing and scripting.

    Why do you think there are all these Non EA UO shards out there where uo fans play for free?
     
  19. "Why would you possibly want to ban or remove more of you playerbase when what they are doing is essentially harmless and the current playerbase is already dwindling?"

    A good number of the playerbase that have caused the current number to dwindle are the non-playing players, you know, the Scripters that aren't even sitting at their computers during their so called "play time", that you're defending. People quit the game and people refuse to play the game, because it's riddled with cheating scum that can't play on an even playing field. Instead they have to resort to cheating and non-playing scripting in order to feel some kind of accomplishment.

    Yeah, that's who we want left playing UO.....*rolls eyes yet again*
     
  20. timbeOFbaja

    timbeOFbaja Guest

    If you read up on your MMORPG history you wouldn't make such reckless statements.

    The last game to legalize scripting died shortly afterward.

    Anyway, I hope people like you remind the devs to take this forum with a grain of salt.
     
  21. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I've not paid more than 10 GP per Iron Ingot in the last 8 months - I typically buy 3k per stop, and it averages out to 9 GP per (1000 @ 8GP, 1000 @ 9GP, 1000 @10 GP).

    You just have to know where to go (I bought 18k Iron last night this way)...

    Some of the same sources have normal wood, starting at 3 GP per board. And, all of them are right next to a banker....
     
  22. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Connor my point is that I don't care what your doing while playing UO or what some other guy is doing. Enjoy the game anyway you want. I see players all the time that I think are scripting or unattending macroing and it does not bother me and I do not feel any need or desire to page a GM. Furthermore I do not feel as though they are taking away anything from me or the game or are detracting from it.

    A friend of mine the other day told me about how he was ignoring a player that was talking to him and suddenly a GM shows up because he was paged that "a player was unattended". Just as in real life people need to mind their own business and worry about themselves.

    And the playerbase isn't dwindling because of scripters. It's dwindling because there not adding new content people get burned out doing the same things over and over.

    Also the PvP playerbase gets burned out and fed up with the constant changes and tweaks to PvP. The game will never be the same since the disengration of the tank mage.

    Live and Let Live.
     
  23. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    A lot of people to go play the new shiny toy in the market.

    The rest leave because of the lack of attention EA gives this game which includes the lack of action taken against all the cheaters.


    Wrong, most of the people I know who have quit do so because of the fact that 80% of the people pvping are running speed enhancing programs and other 3rd party apps.
     
  24. Not really. The more restrictions and tests they put in for scripting, the more complicated the scripts get to avoid them.

    Instead of fighting scripting head on it would be better if they gave up and addressed the things that make people want to script...such as why BoDs or collections are practically impossible for the average "honest" player.
     
  25. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    The key phrase there being people you know. Whereas the people I once knew are no longer in Britiannia for reasons I've already stated.

    Cheating,macroing, scripting, speed hacks or other 3rd party apps are not a reason why I or my guildmates left to go explore other online games. Lack of new material and constant changes to PvP Mechanics were the prime reasons for our departure.

    There have been cheats and holes in UO since Lord British was killed by a fire field... that's not going to change... ever. For a game this intricate and complex one needs to understand that.

    Now if good portion of the playerbase wasn't so concerned about 'what the other guy' is doing maybe many people who play on a Free Shard would actually pay to play on an official EA shard. People need to be free to do whatever the hell they want to do in the game...within reason.

    Again Ultima Online is not a new and exploding game bringing in tons of new players. Everyone needs to lighten up.:bdh:
     
  26. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    if it wasnt for people like this, ingots would cost even more
     
  27. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    :cursing:
    umm, so your saying those of us that don't script can only work our skills for a hour or so many clicks... times .?????? whatever:lame:.

    i've been sitting here with a stick holding down a key trying to get tracking to gain:wall:, watching the game the whole time. (read the spam at brit bank :p i am attended and AM doing something in the game other than macroing my skill.and i am using just the macros availiable in the game itself.)
    I could let this stick hold the macro button down for hours as long as i am sitting here watching what is going on. this IS 'LEGAL' to do. thank you

    your idea would hurt normal players ALOT more. :thumbdown:


    you need to focus more on the REAL problem.... UN-ATTENDED 'play' (scripting,macroing when your sleeping,at work, in the shower,cooking,etc)
    that IS 'ILLEGAL'. and :lame:
     
  28. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest



    hope your house isn't made out of glass :throwstone: ( hmm no stone throwing smily ? :( )
     
  29. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Yup.
    But only because the amount of gold to be gained from doing other activities would bring-in more than mining.

    I would be happily enjoying mining again if it wasn't for the automatons generating ingots.
    I would be charging more because ingots should be worth more.
    And rightly so, imo.
    Why would I gather ingots when I could make a lot more gold per hour doing other basic things, such as bashing monsters?
    Why would I continue gathering ingots when unattended zombie miners can consistantly gather more than me and turn around and sell for less (because the only effort they put into it was grabbing an illegal program and perhaps change the script up a bit)?

    To people in general: See how cheating hurts the game?
    People quit doing things they used to because of it.
    People quit UO because of it.
    I know people that have done both; I have done both (even though I came back because I'm stubborn and won't let cheaters completely prevent me from enjoying a game I like. No, they just prevent me from certain aspects of it these days. Which is no fun & all I can see that doing is making UO a bit less interesting to legitimate players overall.)

    Love those cheap ingots but remember that they are a result of cheating and cheating is a significant reason why many people have left UO and why many will not give UO a chance. Cheating exists in all games to a certain extent. But it has really had UO in a bind for a long time. UO needs more fire n effigies.
     
  30. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest


    first might be true, the new 'shiny' trinket always gets grabbed up, same as event items in UO...

    but

    can you prove the second accusation ?
    and if you can, :cool:
    but still all the same....
    why PvP anyhow ? :lame:


    back on topic, the changes have caused me to pretty much stop mining for ignots, to hard to find what i need. i mined some for blackrock , never got any rock, but got a variety of ignots.
    but no spot is the same as the time before now ? blah :lame:
    glad i can survive with the armor and weapons i have already and don't need to make things.
     
  31. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    It is because of people like this they distroyed mining for regular players. Now everyone has to either script, or buy their ingots from scripters, or pretty much spend every waking hour they can mining.

    Ingots used to only cost me the time to mine them, now it requires way way too much time. I can't afford to spend that much time on anything that doesnt pay real money.
     
  32. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    And, how much does your intoxicant of choice cost?

    Scripters DRIVE UP the prices.

    Always have; always will.

    One of the major issues I've seen, as have everyone else in my guild of miners, is that the scripters don't operate in a vacuum.

    Besides their scripts out mining, they have someone go shopping on the shards they sell on, BUY all the colored ingots priced less than theirs, then resell at the higher price (thanks to those illegal sites that can scan the shards for items). Until the large-scale scripter had his house burnt, ingot prices had nearly TRIPLED on my shard. After they were gone, the prices returned to where they were.

    One of my guildmates kept having his stock bought out. He noticed it was the same person, every time, buying it ALL. Eventually, he saw that person going into a vendor house of a scripter.

    So, the next time he stocked his vendor, he waited and watched. When the person started buying him out, he recalled to that vendor house, went inside, hid and waited. The "customer" arrived, then proceeded to add the commodity deeds he'd bought to that house's vendors, at about a 100-150% markup, depending on the ingot type. Then, another character arrived, one that had been spotted in the wilds as being a script miner, and started adding even more deeds.

    While this WASN'T the same scripter that got canned, it was someone who was more than willing to charge almost as much, and was willing to keep the buyers dependent on either their vendor or the the uber-scripters. Their inventory AND prices dropped like a rock after the big scripter got nailed, probably out of fear that they'd be next (despite being a single, maybe two or three, shard operation).

    With one scripter gone, and the other scaled back, the number of ingot shops has quadrupled in the last 2 months, and even the scripters that remain have gotten their prices more competitive (though still higher), and stopped stocking obviously scripted amounts, depending on supply & demand to sell their higher-priced stock (the other shops tend to sell out, even when not being bought out by a single player). One still runs the risk of someone buying you out for resale, but if the prices stay within about 10% of each other, they usually don't bother.
     
  33. PASmountaindew

    PASmountaindew Babbling Loonie
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    Well guess what... I am going to name all my vendors Ingots-Gems and mark all my runes with that also. Does that mean I am a mining scripter? Using your logic Connor that would make me a scripter. But luckily your logic is not supreme or the only one available to us. :) :lame: :bdh:
     
  34. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    OR that your illogic is not the only one we are limited to, PAS....

    The person is setting up their vendors, internally & externally, identical to ones ran by the scripter.

    The name I can buy - one only has certain characters and a length limit to work with.

    But, the contents of the vendor's pack is ALSO set up exactly like that of most of the scripter's vendors.

    Granted, it may be a copycat (a number of them got their vendor contract dropped when the scripter got banned, as a precaution), but with DOZENS of potential ways one could set up an ingot vendor, why would someone START using that specific layout on a new vendor, to draw attention to themselves, AFTER all the publicity?

    The only answer are that either the scripter's vendor loading script is set to load it that way, and they're too lazy to change it, or someone is intentionally trying to provoke a reaction.
     
  35. Nystul

    Nystul Lore Master
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    I would do that just to watch a bunch of people waste thier time over nothing.
     
  36. PASmountaindew

    PASmountaindew Babbling Loonie
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    So if by using that picture above I set up my vendor exactly like that one does it mean I am a scripter also? I am not a scripter but I have close to 2 million regular boards in a chest at my house that I either bought from a few friends or LJ'd myself. I also have over 100k iron ingots that I purchased. This person could have done the same thing. Like someone earlier mentioned they could have bought cheap and are selling higher. It just amazes me how quickly some people make assumptions about other people based on how much of an item they have wether it is millions upon millions of gold or huge amounts of resources. It is always assumed that person duped or scripted all that stuff. How about someone being innocent till proven guilty?

    rolleyes:
     
  37. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    If you're not doing anything illegal then you don't have anything to worry about.

    No where in my post did I say you would be auto banned for repeating the same action over and over again. However if someone is flagged as having killed 10,000 Troglodytes this week or mined 2 million ingots this month, that's probably a good sign that they're doing it unattended and warrant a closer look.

    BTW...maybe if you use a few more emoticons I'll take you seriously?
     
  38. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I REALLY LIKE how you edited out the relevant part of my post that blows your response out of the water....

    You know, the point about trying to provoke a reaction as another motive?

    How about if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc. it's probably a duck? Or, are you being so anal you insist on genetic testing and vivisection to prove its a duck?

    I can see your side - you're just taking it to such absurd extremes that you're making yourself look bad.


    To follow your line of argument, if one saw a picture of a car with bullet holes, that was
    • involved with a murder
    • on a news report saying to keep a lookout for these suspects who are still potentially at large
    - then you saw a car of the correct make, model, color and the EXACT pattern of bullet holes from the news photo,

    ...You'd ignore it, because it could very well be a different car, that just happened to have the same number and position of bullet holes.

    :lame:

    It is the GM's position to judge guilt or innocence - but you seem to think that they're the only one allowed to report a potential violation for investigation. It doesn't work that way in any game OR the real world.
     
  39. Ok, I'll put to you the same thing I put to the first person to claim this wasn't a scripter by focusing on the naming :lame:......

    "I suppose you have an explanation for the thousands upon thousands of ingots this guy has available to restock with multiple times per day."



    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck......
     
  40. I'm not following what you're trying to insinuate here. If you're suggesting that I'm a scripter, no cigar for you.
     
  41. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    hehe, I know where you shop, I shop there too. Same source gets me arrows and bolts @ 3 and 5 gp when I need them.
     
  42. Heh, why do you think I can sell ingots for 12-13gp each? :D
     
  43. FarausKarzak

    FarausKarzak Guest

    our ingot scripter is back...?

    aah well probably. But in fact its more because they only got ONE banned. Why that one in particular, thats the main question i got in mind....?
    Does he broke some kind of agreement he has with GMs...?

    effigy of a traitor heh...?

    But hey theres LOAD of mining scripters across all shards. They just didnt turned big like our traitor fella.

    LOADs.

    If they would ban each of em without sending canned messages about "you didnt filled the right fields in your petition" that they thanks us so much btw, scripters would be a LITTLE BIT scared and that would maybe thin out their numbers.

    Theres some kind of hided explanation about why they dont ban em.

    What I see now is that I CANT mine. Why? cause i tryed to get an agapite bod filled. In about 1h30 of honest mining i got 50 agapite ingots...
    How the hell am I suppose to fill that bod without buying those ingots from PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT LOTS OF INGOTS AND FAIRLY SUPPLYING OUR NEEDS, (of course eh?) ???

    Allright yea we need em now. Wow. good move with those mining changes. Now we gotta help those Gold web site supplyer. Yea cause heh we spend millions in their vendors. and they resell those millions to us for real $$$.

    But hey let them do it!! thats perfectly normal. Thats what the game was supposed to be. mind your busness! we dont care about what others people are doing heh? its a freaking game. you dont like it? get out?

    Well thats why our shards getting thinner. Whats the point? You gotta embrace scripting to be able to compete. WTF. simply yes: WTF?

    I used to love pvp. until I finally realize i gotta embrace scripting to still love it. well... NO WAY. damn it. I dont pvp anymore. Loosing to the hands of cheaters aint funny. Theres other aspect of the game I love anyway.

    But Saying THAT IS NORMAL, roll with it, it is ****!!!

    GMs. I beleive you looking for some kind of fix on this. you gotta look harder faster and INVESTIGATE our demands with that HARASSING REPORTS we send you about those unattended scripters.

    Ignoring us is insulting your wallet.:lame:
     
  44. HeathBar

    HeathBar Guest

    When I started playing UO again I decided to sell all my ingots I had saved since AOS came out. I literally had millions of iron and hunderds of thousands of colored ingots from when you could actually go a spot and expect to mine up valorite.

    Guess what I named my vendors? Ingots and Gems.... Yes, I restocked my vendors multiple times per day until they were all sold.

    I guess I must be a scripter...
     
  45. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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  46. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    PAS was right.
    you are wrong.

    your saying that just because someone sets there vendor up the same way, whether they have ever seen such a scripters vendor or not. i never have.
    but maybe they noticed the layout one day while shopping and decided it looked the best for how they wanted to sell there stuff. so they copied it. or even worse .. they just did it with no knowledge of any other player setting there vendro up the same way as there's is.

    you 'stalker type people'( camping vendors/people for 3 weeks just to page on someone :lame: ) are getting out of hand with your 'witchhunt'.


    "why would someone START using that specific layout on a new vendor, to draw attention to themselves, AFTER all the publicity?"

    umm what publicity? what layout? why not? oh you meen the single burning luna house on atlantic ? what is wrong with using a 'layout' that works the best? why do YOU assume everyone is cheating ?
     
  47. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    good idea. think i will set up a bunch of vendors and do the same.
    that'll screw the 'stalkers' up. :lol:
     
  48. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    This makes no sense. How is someone trying to corner the market on ingots 'scripting'?

    By limiting supply he is trying to drive the price up.

    Overall, scripting drives the prices down as it increases supply while demand stays constant.

    By buying up all the ingots they can find - they are artificially raising demand. One thing that tells me is you likely have your ingots priced too low for market conditions.

    I do the same thing. I sell Powder of Fort for 89k each. I fill a ton of bods and make alot of cash doing that. However, I see people that will sometimes sell for 60k. I buy it all ,and resell for 89 because it WILL sell for 89k.

    This is typical distribution/markup. What do you care if I buy your powder for 60k or someone else does? You still get 60k. However, I make 29k profit per vial and once your supplies run out - then I supply my own.

    Just because someone can get higher prices for your ingots than you charge does not mean somehow scripting has done this.

    Scripting creases more ingots than normally possible and drives prices down. It drives them to the point that no one working manually would bother with gathering ingots because market price is too low. The time is not worth it. Then scripting has won.

    Before the massive ingot wipe - it was 10-12gp per iron ingot on vendors and colored ones were no more than 70gp for Val. Afterwards you cannot FIND iron ones on vendors under 20gp each. I saw Val selling for 150 or more each.

    When prices get to those levels it does give people incentive to mine their own.

    Its great that you can find them from NPC's but their prices have no relation to the market economics of the game other than they typically get bought up to the market price. IE people will keep buying iron until it hits 20-25gp when they can buy from vendors for same price.
     
  49. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest



    first off, are you kidding me ? :lol: i just found the smiles,these rock. to bad can only do? in quoteing. ?

    now back to topic:
    no where in your post did you say a person had to kill 10k trogy's or mined 2 mil igonts either.
    you stated .. "If a char performs the same actions for more than an hour or more than X number of times in a 24 hour period, the system should send up a big red flag."
    and that is exactly how i read it, if i do the same thing over and over i risk getting banned. :lame:

    and to the topmost statment here..."If you're not doing anything illegal then you don't have anything to worry about. " i don't, so i don't worry. thats why i am so vocal about it.
     
  50. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    This is a bad analogy because Oil is not a standard commodity that is driven by supply and demand. The demand curve is fairly inelastic. Yes some people stop taking vacations and such due to gas prices but in general the demand is high because it is required. If gas goes to $6 will you stop going to work?

    Also the supply is restricted on purpose to keep prices high. Why do you think OPEC meets every so often to determine how much to pump? They could increase production if they wanted but why? The will get their $$ eventually and if they supply it too fast they will sell it all at $20 a barrell and then run out. Why not restrict the flow and sell at $130 a barrel. They will still get paid for X barrells.

    The other issue that keeps supply/demand in check is the ability for new suppliers to enter the market when prices get high.

    I'd love to go out in my backyard and pump some oil right now but the barrier to new suppliers if virtually impossible. If you don't have an oil field - you have a problem.

    With ingots anyone can pick up a pick and raise some skill and mine ingots. Oil production is limited by the oil fields and the govt's and companies that control them.

    By the way - gas costs $.16 in venuzuella. Why? Their country is a net producer and the govt charges people for dist costs only.

    Too much politics in Oil. Stick with something like corn that can be incrementally produced.

    :beer::offtopic: