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Pacific Event feedback, February 08 2010. Fire Dungeon.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Megilhir, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    First and foremost, the person running this event, “Omo(?)” did well in his/her presentation of the event. This post addresses the deeper issue of content. No matter how good the cook, stone soup is still stone soup.

    I attended a UO run event last night on Pacific and was thoroughly dissatisfied with the results. As a synopsis; Players were told by Town Cryers to meet Omo at the Western Healer’s Hut in Delucia at 6:00 PM PST. There was plenty of advanced advertisement. Omo walked up, interacted with the players, delivered a storyline and opened a gate to the Fire Dungeon. All good. From there things dissolved rapidly. The group proceeded to trot through the normal assortment of mobs (Monsters) until they met the Mini/Main Boss(es). Then there was a zerg (mass charge) battle accompanied by a number of “all-screen death spells (Omega Bomb)”.

    Negatives: Content, Rewards, Death and Dying, Execution, Plot-line, Player turn-out.
    Positives: UO had a real person run an event, event time length, doing an event with a herd (if small) of other players, pre-event advertising, Omo’s patience.


    CONTENT: This was a dungeon crawl, plain and simple. Go in, smack and get smacked. While dungeon crawls are fun they are awkward to arrange for a spectrum of players. They are also shallow. Some developing characters that want to go will die to the first tough mongbat. Other players have Greater Dragons, maxed out templates and top of the line gear. So the question becomes how to merge the disparate capabilities and differences into a satisfying event at multiple levels.

    FIX: One answer is by scaling the event. This takes more work but it can yield exponential results. For example; If characters have 100 to 360 skill points they are sent to a different portion of the event to accomplish different tasks. The events may not even coincide but may segue in the storyline. Think of it as lower henchmen (henchies) clearing the way and setting the conditions for their lords and ladies (L&L). Or perhaps they become a Lord or Lady as they travel through the story?
    If the event is concurrent then the henchies/ALTs go to a separate area while the L&Ls go to the advanced area. If the answer is to sequence the events some people may argue that players have multiple characters and can attend both events. Excellent! Get those ALTs out and give them a run without all the bells and whistles. Rewards are commensurate with the difficulty.

    REWARDS: Broken. Simply not effective in the least. I initially stood back in a combat support role, resurrecting, healing and curing other players. Doing this I died repeatedly from the Omega Bombings. For looting, unless you had a macro for “Open Corpse”, managed to have a faster connection (not UO’s problem but there it is) and could actually see beneath the dragon herd you had little to no chance of any reward for your effort. From my individual perspective I wasted about an hour of play time, died repeatedly and lost a lot of fame while damaging my gear with no benefit. Others players voiced similar opinions. Some will disagree with this assessment but as I stood in the Counselors Hall and watched the player responses they were mostly negative during the time I observed.

    FIX: There are innumerable fixes to this. A simple one is the allocation of points for the event. Before we worry about coding let us examine one method. Each time the Event Manager (EM) opens a gate and you enter you gain points. You cannot enter as a ghost. Players cannot cast Gates, disable the ability. If you fall too far behind you have failed in the event. This is supposed to be a heroic or noble action. Not all heroes live and make it to the end of the adventure. That stated, have a number of invulnerable NPC Healers near the battle point so players can resurrect (rez). In this event the NPC Healers died frequently from the Energy Vortexes (EV’s) cast. By completing the stages (entering EM cast moongates etc) characters gain in points. Additionally, any damage done also equals points. As does Healing, curing, rezing and so forth. This takes more set up effort but once the template is established it is repeatable indefinitely. Points are cashed in at a special NPC who provides unique rewards. When you stop participating or fail to continue you still have the accumulated Event points.

    DEATH AND DYING: Great loss, no gain.

    FIX: NPC Healers need to be invulnerable and able to rez Blue/Grey/Red, if that is applicable to the storyline. There may be Murderer only events or other variants. Completing the entire event also yields an adjustment of Karma/Fame. Perhaps include a ‘one use’ NPC at the end who can repair all worn on character gear one time to full levels for a nominal fee. Be that fee Adventure Points or gold. NO Omega Bombs(OB). Tactics should matter. If people merely zerg into battle then the miniboss/boss should have options to deal with that. What evil leader doesn’t have some thralls around, or minions who have minions of their own? How about a retamer to confuse or attempt to take control of the pets? Now the tamer has to engage in a struggle for control of their pet. Not sit back and spam ALL KILL. Perhaps even a Dragon Overlord (or some other random legendary creature-adventure depending) that other Dragons simply will not attack. Maybe a Dark Aura to off-set Holy light or Enemy of One. A simple level one Shield spell that deflects a % of missiles or even sends them back at the Archer for a time period. The list goes on. Basically find the strengths of most common templates and neutralize them to a manageable level where tactics become more relevant without using the OB. And if you must use the Omega Bomb have an indicator before the cast comes and then players can take precautions. After my second death I rez’d, geared, walked 2 steps and died from another OB. Rinse and repeat. Not terribly fun.

    There are a variety of other ideas but these are a start. For further fixes to UO EA can contact me via e-mail at: [email protected]
    From there we can discuss possible future options.
  2. Were you the one that was "having the little talk" with Mesanna outside the reward hall afterwards?

    I too attended the event last night. I also attended the event on Saturday Night, which was way worse on the death category. Sat night I died more times than I can count.

    The storyline was very solid on the event arc. And for the first time ever the arc is moving from Pacific to LS with the idea that it will move back to Pac in time.

    Yes, it was a dungeon crawl. But- it had some named Ancient Liches as part of the storyline.

    The only criticism I had was the area effect spells from the main boss encompassed the entire cramped room, so after you died and got a rez you barely made it to your body before instadeath!

    Rewards are never a given at an event. when you have 10 or so items and 100 or so people there are always going to be 90 unhappy people. Some complain that the same people get rewards all the time, well, mostly those people attend EVERY event, so their percentages go up!

    I do not think that noobie characters are a problem at all. Having 1200 Greater Dragon Corpses over the corpse of the boss could be problematic to those who do not use all names.

    The event was well run with a very decent back story. Too many people are always griping about the events but remember for many years all we had was the EA events that were maybe once a year if that. When the Seers went away there was not much left for a long time. I for one am very happy that we have an EM program. Remember, it takes time to build a program and EMs are still quite new to UO.

    Mesanna also mentioned that they are working on a way for all involved in an event to at least get some recognition. Something about clicking an item at the end and receiving something. All the EMs in the EM program are learning by trial and error so cut them some slack. I think they are doing a bang up job and they are always open to suggestions and criticisms as long as you are being polite.

    And no, before you ask, the only reward I have gotten is the good feeling you get from being involved in part of UO history in the making. Maybe next time I'll get something cool, but even if I don't I will continue to attend EM events.
  3. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    To the above poster, I think the OP had some interesting points. The appropriate recognition was given to the EM for orchestrating an event.

    I don't see the negatives as being griping, as there were also recommended solutions presented. Now, I don't believe that everyone should get a reward for their participation, but frank and ernest feedback should always get factored in.

    Now, factored in doesn't necessarily mean adopted in full, but at least the EM should note that it was presented and considered. Heck, I'm still not sure what EMs are allowed or forbidden to do.

    Interesting points...
  4. canary

    canary Guest

    I've always felt bad for the support troops in events. They make sure that people are alive, healing, whatever and never get any recognition or reward.
  5. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Not I.

    The move from PAC to LS does not make the event solid nor do putting a few enhanced monsters in the mix. Some events may not require monsters at all. That is the crux of this debate.

    Agreed. But that is easily remedied through my posted examples.

    Why not? Conversely to the second part, Why?

    Hence looting is based on connection speed and keyboard manipulation. And I agree, based on the sledgehammer aspect of the event skill did not matter nor did tactics employed.

    Again, not the center of the debate. Nor did I fault Omo. It is a matter of what was executed, not how.

    Of course I am "griping" though I am doing more than merely whining. When an organization becomes dismissive of reasoned commentary it stagnates. I am unconcerned with the past as it remains irrefutable to change. We can but try to affect the future to greater effect.

    And here is the thrust of my presentation.

    Was I not polite and reasoned in my assessment? I don't believe I stated "WoW DewDZ That SuXXoRzzed" at any point. I identified challenges and offered solutions. That is problem solving in a nutshell.

    What you got or did not get is not relevent to the discussion unfortunately. You appear to enjoy the Role-playing aspect. Excellent. I too like a bit of that. And though I am not a Power-Gamer I understand that others are and I also enjoy aspects of PG-ing as well.

    The issue is not one of individual satisfaction but one of program viability through a broad appeal while still maintaining attraction to individuals on and at diverse or varying levels.
  6. Fair enough on all points. The only major disagreement I have is the fact that corpses are instanced (sp?) so that if you get looting rights you get to loot. Script looting does not play a roll in this at all unless you are talking about after the corpse timer when everyone gets to loot then I have to say yes, the corpse is dry-looted in a manner of seconds!

    The corpse is looted fast because there are 25 to 50 people looting it. It is nothing like in the old days in doom where you open the corpse and you see the final item dragged off before it is completely opened. The corpse being buried is a simple annoyance fixed by holding done the CTL+Shift keys and right-clicking on the names you know to not be the name of the corpse that you are looting.

    I go to events with the knowledge that there is a very good chance that i am going to die multiple times. I am rarely disappointed in that! I also have attended many events that there was no fighting or death at all. Yes, I like the RP aspect- they don't call it Massively Multiplayer Online Roll Playing Game for nothing.

    I was not trying to attack you in any form or fashion and I apologize for thinking that you were "the dude" from last night that was given a lot of cheese...

    You do bring up some good points and I applaud you for that! It is refreshing to have the suggested FIX listed near the proposed BROKEN in a post for a change! Even if I do not agree with all the BROKEN or FIX you listed you posted in the true spirit of discussion!
  7. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    May 20, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I really need to get you a report for you to read. The Pacific to LS move is HUGE. The nexus spirit is trying to take over the multiverse that is Ultima Online! It doesn't sound like this is a single or two shard event. It might even be Mondain's spirit for all we know trying to collect relics from every shard to recreate the original world gem to control absolute power of the realms! We were lucky the nexus spirit didn't blow up our corpses, eat our spirits like Melissa did to Clainin or worse Destroy the UO Servers (which sounds like with all the layoffs at EA a possible great ending for UO)

    I had a blast last night, I'd do it again and again to save Britain!

    As for the damaging system and event items there could be alot done I loved how the game Anarchy Online worked with mobs flagging on players that were doing the most healing or the most damage. I don't get many event items I spend a lot of time healing and resurrecting players.
    I do what I enjoy and if I can make someones day sometimes they pay it back. There is one player on Pacific by the name of Dreamz I always try to hit up with rez's and heals if I see em. I know I stopped attacking to take care of them last night. They were really nice to me and now if I see em I take care of them the best I can. Really this games about the friendships and fun as it should be, not some pixel crack or getting killed repeatedly and being upset about it after the EM said its going to be "REALLY REALLY TOUGH".

    One of our older EM's Jyrra was great!. If you thought last night was evil you should have seen some of his events. Harrowers exploding corpses, tons of players feeding the tentacles life. That was the light end usually it was waves of balrons, ancient liches, then doom bosses too. Those were great so much spawn dropping on your head you were doomed to client crash and wake up oOooO'ing. And event items from those days didn't come out much. Pacific has always had players that get upset from events I remember some guy cursing and swearing at an em years ago because they hosted an archery contest and they were mad because they didn't have an archerer. There will be more events some you love some you hate.
  8. RedRum

    RedRum Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I have to admit, I was one of the people pretty miffed about this whole 20tile 80+point attack that was non-stop. I had NO chance at all to get my body and live. I need bandies to heal and stay alive, but when I am not able to get to my body (in all, 19 deaths in a row while trying) it made me mad as hell, so I vented on Omo in the EM channel.
    I would use chivalry to get to full health, yet with 80+ points of damage being rained down on my head along with 2-5 bodies that I was trying to check...not even the best all 70's suit could keep me alive long enough to sort through to find the corpse that had my bandi's so that I could continue to attack the boss.
    Once the boss was dead, I was able to get to my bodies; there were no bandies to be had. Apparently my original body had decayed beyond the time limits and was gone forever. With all the deaths and bodies strewn about, using “All Names” I couldn't even find the boss to see if I had a chance at getting a drop, not that I would have for the little damage I was able to inflict prior to ultimate-death, so I left the event.

    My apologies to Omo for griping at him in his EM channel about it. He has always done a decent job with what he has to work with.
    I've gotten a few of the Arti Drops at Omo’s events as well as events on other shards, so I really can’t say that I don’t like the way the events are run. In fact, I think I like Omo’s events the best. We always seem to have a good time.
  9. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    One thing this post has done for certain is to get people discussing the good and not so good.

    I suggest everyong reading and replying enjoys UO or else they would be investing their time and money elsewhere. I, for example, have 2 free lifetime subscriptions to LoTR. They are paid in full for the life of the game.

    So why pay $$ monthly to play UO?

    Simply because I enjoy it, always have.

    My intent is to establish an open discourse with ideas and perspectives that will enable the game to grow beyond even what it was originally.

    See here's the thing, I agree that shiny pixels with no content or "soul" become boring. And you know what, so do most people who stay to play a gaming platform for an extended length of time.

    When a new game/platform is released there will always be a rise in initial interest. If the game mechanics are substandard, the storyline nonexistent or the overall experience lacking in several other key psychological areas it will be discarded.

    My intent is to provide illumination (to a degree as I only have so much time) which will enable UO to grow once more.

    I have provided a significant amount of reasoned and free comment. There are organizations that fund think tanks for the concepts and solutions I have provided gratis. That goes for some of the ideas other players have forwarded as well.

    So it is great that some enjoyed the event. Yet there is clearly room for improvement as a large number of those who attended were dissatisfied. And here's the rub, if they were unhappy what is the percentage chance they will continue to participate? And if they cease participating that is one less "hook" that keeps them engaged in UO. Without engagement comes disinterest. With disinterest comes cancellation. You get the rest of the logic progression so I will not bore you.

    Lasty, I maintain that Omo did will with the script provided. My examination is the script, props, supporting roles and overall theatrical dynamics.

    Keep the responses, positive and negative coming please. Weigh in, be heard (or read at any rate. :) )
  10. Tangled Metal

    Tangled Metal Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Nov 4, 2009
    Likes Received:
    As someone who both collects pixel crack and loves to RP, I have to say I had a blast at the events! I died 47 times on Saturday night and 26 times on Monday! What did I get for my efforts? 73 Death Robes! Woot!

    My complaints are minimal:

    First, after my disposable horse died within the first one minute of the event I was on foot. The run to the end where the big boss was a long run and being on foot made it tough. But of course Omo was on foot as well!

    Second, it was just far too cramped in the final area. I think this lead to the whole multi-death situation! My character has 120 HP or so. So I was able to run when the first 80 to 90 hit came. This helped me to keep my dead body away from the pile of Greater Dragons and fallen tamers.

    Third, there were times when it was very difficult to find where the boss was! Even in a tiny area when you have 10+ Greater Dragons on the boss even with All-Names he was buried. It was difficult to tell if you were even doing any damage too. Too many Dragons!

    Here is how I would correct the issues above:

    First, I will either bond an animal or get an ethy for the next event. Perhaps epic events that cover a long distance should have gates set up for stragglers. ALTHOUGH I would like to say Omo is VERY good about waiting for stragglers, going and getting them and such. Never seen an EM take such an active roll with the players!

    Second, tone down the area effect radius of the boss. Maybe 13 to 15 tiles. That would keep archers and mages attacking it in the range of attack. The other option is to give a little bigger space for fighting. And of course more NPC healers with some priests of Mondain for the lower karma folks.

    Third, I have no suggestion for not being able to see the boss through the Greater Dragons. I did notice that Atlantic's EM Eris is putting together some events that won't allow Greater Dragon's or Area effect spells. These events are also in Fel so that should be interesting!

    I would like to also say it is VERY refreshing to see event arc's shard jumping. That is a historic event. We all know that all the EM's work together to help each other's events but this is a big deal.

    Mesanna is doing an awesome job! They all are in my book. Maybe I will end up opening a death robe museum after I am done with my rares musesum!
  11. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Feb 26, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Area effect that polymorphs the dragon into something smaller for an hour?
  12. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Get an undertaker's staff. Makes the pile of dead bodies a non-issue.
    If you don't want to buy one, just about every shard has a Luna
    vendor with one. I've got em on mine...

    Also, keep in mind because of past problems, EMs have
    been nerfed pretty badly, limiting the things they are able
    to do.

    Really wish they'd give them the power to remove some
    people who cause problems at events though.
  13. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    What does an Undertakers Staff do please?
  14. canary

    canary Guest

    Helps you out with your corpse. Go look on the UO.com site, it can be purchased there.
  15. RedRum

    RedRum Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:

    Purchased one just last night for the very reason I was so peeved at the event...so I can retrieve my body from long distances without dying while trying to retrieve it without bandies. I’m sure it will come in handy and be a regular pack item for future events from now on.

    Information on Undertaker's Staff
    Undertaker's staff works in the following case. And it spends 1 charge when you succeed in summoning your corpse.
    -The corpse is your own corpse (You can summon only your own corpse).
    -The corpse exists in same sub-server.
    -The corpse exists in 40 tiles from you.
    -You don't have a criminal flag.
    -You don't have an aggressor's flag to other players.
    -The corpse hasn't been summoned 3 times yet.
    -The corpse isn't empty.
  16. olduofan

    olduofan Guest


    This is just an observation that "I have" and "Feelings , Opinions" that "I have" as well as "my beliefs"

    Generally speaking I find all the events Boring and they seem to cater to specific play styles -IMO-
    "I Feel" they are not much fun unless you fit into a certain group as well -IMO-

    I do not know any of the EMS or Their Followers, this is all fictional and not directed to any ONE person or group JUST HOW I :eyes: IT.

    MY NEW "SIG" --> Its not what you know its WHO you know :loser:
  17. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

  18. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Die surrounded by baddies, go get ressed.... get to within 40 tiles of your dead body, use staff. Staff 'pulls' (more like teleports) your corpse to you. Loot.

    It's like 6 bucks through uogamecodes.com or you can sometimes find them on player vendors. I have one @ 8mil on my Luna vendor.
  19. Muu Bin

    Muu Bin Guest

    It's a catch-22 isn't it? Pay EA/Mythic for something that would tremendously help in these types of situations where it is impossible to find one's body, or forego shelling out more money. Personally, I am willing to put up with all the negative emotions surrounding losing one's corpse in an event like this than give more money to EA. I simply see it as another gold sink/ cash grab for them. Something seems a little off to me that a "fix" to not being able to find your body (or access it because it is blocked) is for them to sell us the fix. Now if it simply pure laziness that people want this item, well... that's a different story.
  20. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Concerning the inability to reach corpses: can't say I fully understand why you can't.
    You're using Ctrl+Shift right? It sometimes can be annoying closing all the other bars when there are dozens of them, but I've never been unable to access a corpse that wasn't bugged in some other way.
  21. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
    Reporter Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran

    Dec 17, 2006
    Likes Received:

    I'm not very good without a visual. From what I can read ill be building a
    character on Pacific for that fun! I love mobs of death and destruction!
    I give a hats off to the Pacific person who came up with that event. :heart:
  22. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Particularly when EverQuest 1 had the simple /corpse command to do the same thing. It was free and part of the programing.
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