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Paladin Template and Gear

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Duncan Drake, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    In my last thread (..."Sampiredin") I had the idea that maybe necromancy isn´t needed at all for an effective Dexxer build. I now even go a bit further and state that I´ve found a more effective build than the sampire or sampiredin build.

    I wouldn´t say that if I hadn´t tested this. Before I show you my calculations I want to describe some advantages you get in not using necromancy at all:

    Most important: No necromancy on paladins.... it always felt wrong
    2nd: 100 free skill points
    3rd: No +25 fire resist you need on your gear. So you can even craft a full plate set (for style of course)
    4th: versatility, especially having anatomy, tactics and resist at the same time on your build
    5th: You can use healing potions, no garlic restrictions

    Well so far so good but what about life drain from VE? The solution as strange it may sound: 100% Hit Life Leech weapons. This property on weapons seems a bit misunderstood esp due to the fact that the devs changed it years ago. Formerly all leech properties on weapons worked like this. The percentage on the weapon was tha chance that an amount of life / mana / stamina was leeched from the enemy. Now the only leech property that works this way is Hit Stamina Leech.

    HLL (and HML) now work this way (you can check uoguide here): At every single hit you leech an amount of life calculated as follows: 0 - Damage Dealt * Life Leech Intensity % * 30%.

    So lets compare this with vampiric embrace: Lets say you do 200 dmg with one hit:
    - Vampiric embrace leeches 40 hit points
    - Hit Life leech drains 0 - 60 hit points

    Comparing this Hit Life leech is a bit of a gamble because theoretically you could leech 0 while VE always leeches the same, but in my testing I didn´t die even once. I barely had problems in batteling the usual mobs (medusa, chief paroxysmus, abyssal infernal and so on. Even paragon balrons, and semidar (swapping anatomy for magery to cast polymorph) are no problem at all). If one hit leeched a bit less the next one leeched even more. It was a constant life drain and I didn´t really notice much of a difference to vampiric embrace:

    Ok so now here is my gear (excel chart as usual)

    [​IMG]

    I use broadswords because of stamina loss. Its a bit safer than a longsword to keep up swing speed, and dmg loss is tiny.

    There is another advantage of this build. You can perfectly swap some skills for very effective treasure hunting.
    If I go for LV6 or 7 maps I swap resisitng spells for mining and anatomy for lockpicking. With 85 (100) mining (+10 jacobs pickaxe + 5 Ringmail gloves) finding the chest is easy. And even without anatomy the dmg is enough to even kill ancient wyrms and balrons with no problem.

    Anyway I hope this may help some of you paladins who want to get rid of this vampiric curse. May the light be with you :)
     
    #1 Duncan Drake, Jun 17, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  2. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Is this char a human?
    If yes then why is he a human?

    Have you tried Lady Melisande and Travesty?
    How easy and fast can he collect keys for Dreadhorn?
     
  3. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    I may need to do some more research on this, but I had thought that having 120 chivalry plus 120 bushido meant that slayer/SS on weapons was unnecessary since it pushed you over the damage cap?

    I love this idea of a build, by the way. Can't wait to start working on making it and trying it out!
     
  4. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Sometimes you don't want to use EOO (and get 100% additional damage). Sometimes you are not able to Honor due some reason (buffed, flying, honored, damaged). Sometimes monser die faster then you can get honor bonus to damage.
    But if you use EOO and have honored a monster and achived perfection then you needn't slayer.
     
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  5. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    - This char is human because i dont like playing an elf :) thats the only reason. You can of course adjust sth if you are playing an elf.
    - travesty and lady mel i havent tried so far (with sampiredin build and sampire build i havent tried em too) but will probably do
    - dreadhorn i have done with the sampiredin the last time. Was no real problem. I dont think difficulty will change with this build but will find it out.
     
  6. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    The 120 chiv is mainly for maxbonus on divine fury. 120 bushido is to reach the 300 mana reducecap, perfection (luck bonus) whirlwind bonus and confidence / evasion.

    Overmaxed damage from eeo is just a side effect
     
  7. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Ah and btw i forgot to mention i use a 50% epot ring i swap for the other before i iuse str and agility pots
     
  8. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    Duncan, I'm working on making your "Sampireadin" template that you wrote about in the other thread currently.

    Do you feel that this template is as strong or weaker than that template? It's not too late for me to swap some skills and gear out. This template [with the exception of the 100 HLL on the weapons] seems to be less gear intense because of not having to hit 95 Fire Resist.

    Thank you again for all your advice.
     
  9. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    well i will have to do some more testing but time is short right now :-(

    From what i have done so far i feel this template here is stronger and you have more versatility. The dmg output is nearly the same too (max hits broadsword 198, sampiredin longsword 201)

    And the suit is very easy to craft so well i recommend that you give it a try.

    And getting 100% hll broadswords only needs some copper runic hammers.
     
  10. Katrena

    Katrena Sage
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    Hi,

    Is there something in the game that shows what percentage of the 300 damage cap you are hitting at? Mathematically, I am at 299, but have never been able to actually verify it when fighting.

    Thanks, Katrena
     
  11. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Mhh dunno. I dont think so. Never thought about it to be true
     
  12. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Just look at damage values. Max value should be 3x of the damage you see in the stats window.
     
  13. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    My dexer is a human as well but I'm not able to explain myself why she is not elf so I'm trying to find a reason for it :).



    Dreadhorn itself is easy. But I don't feel good when attacked buy Guile/Spite + Irk at the same time... or Irk + a paragon changeling... etc So my questions was about collecting keys not about Dreadhorn itself.

    There's another question:
    When you do a spawn at which level you switch from WW to AI? (including Ilshenar spawns with paragons).
     
  14. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    At primeval spawn i switch in the last phase when the bone dragons spawn
    Abyssal infernal spawn i do completely with a double axe. Even the boss himself cuz he has low poison resist and with cw + double strike i do more dmg than with ai
    Inferno spawn i do completely with ww too. The same thing with the undead spawn
     
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  15. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    I like having the extra carrying capacity as human. The 20 less mana makes encounters a little longer when RNG doesn't keep my mana full and I have to do some normal swings, but otherwise I don't see much of a difference. The spellweaving spells from JOAT seem like a nice perk, but I haven't actually used them in ages.
     
  16. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Paladin is my favourite class.

    I have a mace paladin with 4/6, 45/45, 50 EP, 12 MR, 100 HML, 100 HLL and so on. Since latest patches changes (material resists, HCI cap, refinment, stamina loss reduction) I need rebuild it. I'm going to transfer EP to backup ring and add 18 Damage Eater. Well, probably I'll do this later.
    The main problem he faced were bosses without slayer. Low damage => low mana leach => no mana for AI => low damage. It's difficult to break this circle. I'm thinking about adding 60 bushido to the template (120 mace/tact/chiv/res/paryy/anatomy). Well, probably I'll do this later.

    Riight now I started another dexxer: fencing/tactics/bushido/parry/chivalry/resisting spells/anatomy/healing. She is a human and uses metal armor. I don't call her Paladin becouse she hasn't FC/FCR and heal herself using bandages.
    She uses reforged HML and imubed HLL now but I will try your variant (reforged HLL and imubed HML) in the nearest future.

    p.s. Inspite of the latest metal/leather upgrade woodland armor is still the best. One thing stopped me from using it - it's very difficult to craft (with reforging). It took me 2 months to cruft a suit for my Sampire. I finished it only becouse I always try to finish what I started... but I gave up UO the next day after finishing the suit.
    I designed pretty good suit and template (IMHO) for an elf dexxer and may be sometimes I will try it.
     
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  17. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    Why do you consider Woodland still superior to metal armors?
     
  18. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    6 mods on an item is better then 5
     
  19. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Hmm i really have no experience with woodland armor. True you can have 6 mods but is this really, neccessary? in addition how good does it prevent stamina loss compared to metal armor?

    The thing with those changelings. Well every build has its limits. I wouldnt pull all and everything there. But fighting irk and guile at the same time is possible and should be no problem. If things get a bit difficult i always carry some invis potions

    Why fencing? Compared to swordmanship you will miss hard hitting weapons and good ww axes
     
    #19 Duncan Drake, Jun 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
  20. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I'll try invis posions - never used them before.

    Fencing is for feint. I'm lagged so I need more defense. Sometimes I'm not able to run away. I think it's fps issue and going to buy new notebook.
     
  21. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    It prevents better then it did before the patch. And since it wasn't a problem before I believe it wont be a problem now. Especially taking into account the char has 120 chivalry (and +10 DCI for DF ) and they removed cooldown from refresh potions.

    They keep your manadrained the most of the time, don't they? No mana = no AI = low damage = miserable healing (leaching). How much mana your has character got?
     
  22. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    No with 100 resist its ok. Well and onetime i had both of em on + some other spiders. I prefer double axe and ww with cw there. Not really a mana problem.

    I go along with about 60 mana. Sometimes i have to do some normal hits with cw instead of ai but its ok so far.

    With fencing i always see a dmg problem. Esp since leafblade dm was nerfed. Feint is a nice gimmick but useless without mana
     
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  23. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I have tried a leafblade with 96 HLL and 68 HML in the Caverns. Sometimes I ran out of mana while chaining AI but it happened very rare (and a leafblade has 15% less damage and 20% less HML compared to a broadsword).
     
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  24. skaven

    skaven Sage
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    Could you elaborate on this? I looked in the forums and didn't find how to craft them :(
     
  25. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Well quite easy. Take a copper runic hammer. Select powerful reforge, grand artfice and inspired artifice. Chose name vampiric / of the vampire. It needs 4 charges. Can result in 100 hml or 70 hsl too.
     
  26. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Just one pic. Soloing primeval lich. doublestriking to death. fight needed about 1 minute

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    Anymore feedback on the superiority or weaknesses of this template versus your previous Sampiradin template?
     
  28. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Well all testing so far was very satisfying. I think both templates are equally strong but the template here gives me more versatility and options. Esp. having Resisting spells and Anatomy in this build.
    And the gear is easier to get.

    Did a couple of LV6 T-maps too. I need about 5 minutes to kill the spawn (goes faster if there are no ancient wyrms). With sampiredin it needs longer because I often had to recall back and swap mining for tactics

    I´ll try shimmering effusion this weekend. Never did this before but well I´ll report then
     
  29. Gb8719

    Gb8719 Journeyman

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    Interesting. So it sounds like it's equally as versatile for multiple targets as the Sampiradin is.
    I've been working on a Sampire type character now for months and I think I may change courses and go this direction. I, like you, never felt that having both Necromancy and Chivalry on a template felt right. This is also seems far easier for gear as well.
     
  30. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Yes. If i were you go for this template first. Gear you get quite fast. You can always go for another sampire / sampiredin template later.
     
  31. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Have you tried bosses that freaze you? (like Narvey or Slasher)
     
  32. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Not yet. But i think this template will have similar problems like all other sampire tempates. No hits no life :-/
     
  33. royalbarnes

    royalbarnes Visitor
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    Corwin I have to ask is your paladin able to get the keys and take on dreadhorn he's the only peerless i'm interested in going after.
     
  34. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Yes. I did it when my char wasn't fully trained/equipped. I just need to be accurate in Desert and don't run forward too fast.
    Till now I have tried (and done) Navrey Night-Eyes, Dreadhorn and Paragon Balron.
     
  35. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    navrey works. what do you do against the freezing?
     
  36. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I have healing so I just start applying a bandage. Then feint and evasion as soon as I'm unfreezed (if my hp is low).
     
  37. Wolfman

    Wolfman Seasoned Veteran
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    Interesting built! Always wanted to build an axer (with lumberjacking) for max damage output.....this 100LL idea might just be what I have needed to put it to work!
     
  38. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    There is no sense in lumberjacking. With 100 DI/150 str/120 tactics/120 anatomy/20 lumberjack (JOAT) you get the cap (300 DI). Without lumberjack you get 296 DI - almost max. Check you damage in stat window and compare it with your weapon damage. 4x is max you can have.
     
  39. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    My current template:
    120 fencing
    100 tactics (to get GM bonus to DI)
    120 bushido (honor, confidence, evasion)
    55 parry (10 mana reduction)
    5 archery
    120 chivalry (DF, EOO, CW, Dispel)
    80 resisting spells
    100 anatomy (to get max evasion bonus and GM bonus to DI)
    85 healing (I use enchanted bandages for serious fights)
     
  40. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Interesting template. I had a similar one back before you could get 100% HLL weapons that just didn't work out well. As good as VE is, I hated having 1 skill using up 100 skill points for that one effect.

    Maybe it's time to dust off the skill stones and try it again. Plus, it will give me a use for a 500 or so hammers.
     
  41. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    So, assuming the random damage from 0-60 is completely random and not scaled in some way; you'll get bigger individual bumps from HLL, but on the average VE will be more than HLL (30 to 40).
     
  42. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Yes thats right. On average its a bit less. But using this template more and more gives me the feeling that its enough.im not missing ve in any way right now.
     
  43. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I do WW until the champ spawns, unless I am taking on a single paragon dragon or succubus.
     
  44. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I have to agree, and I like the feeling of not using VE- I think the ability to use other skills makes the trade off more than worth it. As soon as I can get my son off my computer, I am going to give it a try on my Elf in Woodland armor.
     
  45. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I do because of the way it frees up slots to imbue goodness.
     
  46. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Leafblade. It's that good.
     
  47. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    120 parry ftw
     
  48. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I am also liking this because I am thinking of a build where I max out as much as possible on the armor and use the jewelry mostly for skill points. I'd like to squeeze out at least 70 points from the jewelry.
     
  49. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Two years ago a suit with 100 mana and maxed hci/dci was counted as uber suit. And only elves could reach this (+20 mana and woodland armor). With latest changes it's not so difficult. Now I see two ways to upgrade your suit:

    1. Get as much skill points as possible.
    With woodland armor and 2H weapon you can get all max without jewels (and get 100+ skill points).

    2. Get max swing speed with heavy a weapon without SSI on the weapon (an additional mod on the weapon and no hml/hll reduction).
    For example my thrower has 1.5s without SSI on his Soul Glave (and he has 2/6 casting and 18 eater as well).

    Unfortunately there is no good heavy 2H melee weapon with AI. So I think the first way is the best for a melee char.
    It's especially interesting for an archer (since he needn't parry). I would try bard-archer, tamer-archer, etc.
     
  50. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
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    Well i really like the double axe. With 3,25 speed its as fast as a broadsword so no need to imbue ssi.
    Unfortunately it has no ai but doublestrike is good either. There are even some mobs where you do more dmg with ds, e.g. Abyssal infernal or primeval lich.

    For the others i just use a 1-handed weapon