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Paragons aren't exciting anymore. Haven't been for a long time.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by sean_lo, Mar 13, 2008.

  1. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    When paragons were first released, everyone was excited about them. They were tough to beat, the artifacts were super, and people gathered to bring them down.

    Now, no one wants to do them. Instead of bringing excitement to ish, they make the dungeons empty.

    If you want to stand any chance of killing the tougher paragons in 5 minutes, you have to play a tamer. Otherwise, play a mage/dexer that ends up jousting running it for 20-30 minutes with a high risk of death.

    Paragons no longer bring excitement and fun to ish. It hasn't for a long time. All they do is make people run.

    Please, either reduce the spawn rate of paragons, or put them in a special paragon only dungeon. All they do is make your average player run away.
     
  2. I like the paragons just the way they are. There are only a select few that need to be jousted, with the rest of them being fairly easy.

    Paragon Balrons, Dragons, Ancient Wyrms and the like SHOULD take a while to kill. They're the toughest creatures in the game outside of the bosses, and SHOULD take some serious effort to kill. That's the fun in taking them on. They're things that can actually kill you, so you have to stay on your toes.
     
  3. completely disagree.

    paragons are nice and they bring special flavor to the game experience, no matter if high-end or low-end ones.

    we are hunting them on a regular basis and like for all high end mobs you need to be prepared to tackle the stronger ones. we do the skeletal dragon paragon for example with melee fighters, but i did not yet try AW paragons since the beef up. surely we die often, so what ?
    the only small issue about the paragons is the artie drop - the current paragon arties dont really attract anymore. i would suggest to extend the arties from paragons (and lev 6 t-maps btw) to the virtue arties or the cursed doom stuff or such.

    please, dont get me wrong, i am not accusing you to do that, but paragons too can nicely ruin a scripters day [​IMG]
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Paragons were a great thing........5 years ago.......

    Like many things in UO they have been left to collect dust and no longer have their former glimmer. A new set of low-mid level artis and/or decoration would spark interest in them again. A new set of cooking ingredients(that were actually more than a novelty) would be a nice addition. It wouldn't take much to spark interest in them again. When they first came out...
     
  5. Cygnas

    Cygnas Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I disagree on the spawn rate and existence of paragons. I think that they are just fine. The add some flavor to Ilshenar and force you to keep your eyes open. I do agree that more could be done with them. They could be used a vehicle to dispense rare ingredients used for alchemy, cooking (as noted earlier), tinkering etc. I've always wanted paragon stone harpy feathers to be something unique for fletching special arrows. Unfortunately that would just lead to the Spirituality harpy nest being camped, but it would be a cool idea. I think that their dropping new cooking ingredients is a step in the right direction.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I like the paragons in Ilshenar also. And I also think that the rare drops should be looked at... and what I would like to see are drops of the set armor pieces on paragons, with a very-very small chance of the rare set pieces dropping based on the paragon fame. Right now, most set pieces go to waste.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Let me put it this way...

    No decay/wear
    No breakage
    No use
    No retirement of items
    No additioin of new items


    These are the cardinal 5 NO's that hinder this game. Now you dont have to say yes to them all at the same time to get the game sparking. Some No's to Yes's bring bigger sparks. But if you have the 5 No's as No's then you get a lifeless boring aspect of the game. Oh and keep in mind since UO is quite dynamic, different parts may be a No or Yes.

    Paragons are a great addition. They need to stay.
    but the stuff got old after 3 months of farming. Arties Arties everywhere.

    The arties DONT DECAY. NO
    The arties DONT BREAK. NO
    The arties HAVE NO USE. YES and NO.
    The arties HAVE NO RARITY/STILL SPAWN. NO (RETIREMENT)
    The arties HAVE HAD NO ADDITIONAL ITEMS. NO (1 or 2 maybe additions)

    4, really 5 NOs.

    Paragons therefore have lost there golden glow.
     
  7. Belmarduk

    Belmarduk Guest

    1. Paragons are fine as they are
    2. For christ sakes - artis should be NON-POFABLE
    They should break after a time - then paragons etc would be of use again....
    The ONLY miniarti that works as IT SHOULD are the lute and harp - They are gone and most be replaced after a certain time !!!
    Should be the same for ALL artis big and small !!!
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    One of our favor places to hunt in Ilshenar was in Blood, then the paragons were born and chased us out of there. Today we only go as a group during guild events. I don't hunt alone in Ilshenar anymore, mainly due to the paragons. So I think they have done very well with what they were made for.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

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    <blockquote><hr>


    Paragons no longer bring excitement and fun to ish. It hasn't for a long time. All they do is make people run.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No fun and excitement? Bah, I guess that depends on what a persons definition of fun and exciting is.

    *runs off to Ilsh to try and pop a paragon greater dragon*
     
  10. pacific lily

    pacific lily Guest

    What is "ish" ????
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hehe. Phoenix Arrows...must use Phoenix Feathers which normal Phoenix's have a 5% chance to have when skinned, Paragon Phoenix has 100% chance. When fired they look like a Magic Arrow, they do 100% Fire damage, and add damage to the hit. That would be nice, if Archery wasn't overpowered already. It would make Chaos Shrine in Ilsh more lively though.

    Most Paragons can be soloed with a Warrior with the right weapon. Some still need to be jousted however. Lich Lord Paragons can be both, depending on what spells they cast in the fight. With my Macer using a Silver-Etched Mace that has Undead Slayer/28% Stam Leech/15% SSI/39% Dam Inc and 100% Fire Damage (Weapon of Bane, no need for Con Wep) and EoO, i can stand toe to toe and beat most LL Paras to death without running. However if they decide to use some nasty combos, then yeah, i gotta run off and heal and come back at them. LL Paras love to Wither Cannon. Here on Napa, we also have Paragon Ancient Liches.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    What is "ish" ????

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ilshenar
     
  13. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    Hmm... I don't see it.

    Then most of my characters don't do silly things like trying to solo Balrons or AW (regular or otherwise). I've never had trouble fighting the bloods and daemons in Blood dungeon, as paragon or as normal, on my primary warrior - a character with ZERO resist skill (no bushido, either), and 200 points in cartography and lockpicking.

    The minor artifacts need updating, though the drops seem to be many times more rare than they used to be. I'm lucky to get 1 a week, when they used to be about 1 every 2 hours.

    The Bag of sending change is hurting the Ilshenar hunting spots FAR more than paragons' power (or lack thereof).

    The most fun I have in the game is in Ilshenar:
    1. Where 4 of us got our butts kicked by going after n Ancient Wyrm para last week.
    2. Where me and the rest of the XMHC gang of lunatic miners go out digging with gargoyle picks trying to bring up paragon ore elementals DELIBERATELY. Any of you that think paragons are boring, try a paragon valorite elemental on for size (these are the critters that blackrock eles were based on; in fact, a BRE identifies as a valorite elemental with Enemy of One's mini-icon). But, at least the val ele doesn't have the regens or hp of the BRE.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hehe, my Macer kills Val Eles in 1 hit, although it's also called being a kamikaze, kills me too with their' Damage Reflect.

    I kill them and any other Ore Ele in one hit with this.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Theres only one thing wrong with the paragon system: The fact that ML ruined it.

    It was great system, one of the better ones ever put into the game, but once ML made the minor arties comically common by 1) having them drop on swoops and miasmas, and 2) having like 1 in 3 miasmas drop a level 6 chest.

    It was so stupid, and ruined such a great part of the game.

    Solution: New minors, on a rotation (3 months some old cycle out, new ones cycle in, old ones return eventually), remove level 6 chests from miasma. It's loot is good enough.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Paragons do nothing for me, except make me run. I hate them, I use to hunt Bloods in illish, but haven't since paragons first arrived. They suck, and their loot is garbage, not even worth fighting if I could kill them solo.
     
  17. Paragons are lots of fun to kill on my mage. I sometimes run through ilsh just to look for paragons to kill. Some I cant solo (Balron, AW, Lich Lords) but it can be fun to see how much damage I can do before dying.

    One thing I'd like to be in a group to try right now is a blackrock infected paragon ancient wyrm.
     
  18. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    afaik there have never been blackrock paragons...
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    Paragons are fine as creatures. They add challenge to the Ilshenar facet that the other facets don't have, and the chests are cool.

    The ONLY thing that needs to happen is that the Marties they drop need to be cycled for some new stuff.
     
  20. <blockquote><hr>

    Paragons do nothing for me, except make me run. I hate them, I use to hunt Bloods in illish, but haven't since paragons first arrived. They suck, and their loot is garbage, not even worth fighting if I could kill them solo.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So, since you can't kill them, they suck? [​IMG]

    Maybe if you COULD kill them, you'd know that they actually do drop some decent stuff, and has already been said, the chests can be pretty cool.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Totally agree with Lord Drakelord. We used to enjoy hunting in Ilsh also until the paragons. I loved lowly characters being able to hunt shadow wisps for bones. Paragons killed a big area of the hunt grounds for some of us.
     
  22. Tom_Builder

    Tom_Builder Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    I like the paragons, but I would like to see some new arties. Retire the old ones and give us some new ones.
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    Totally agree with Lord Drakelord. We used to enjoy hunting in Ilsh also until the paragons. I loved lowly characters being able to hunt shadow wisps for bones. Paragons killed a big area of the hunt grounds for some of us.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As long as you're positive karma, you can kill shadow wisps all day long and never get attacked by anything.

    What was your point again?.....
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [​IMG]<blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Totally agree with Lord Drakelord. We used to enjoy hunting in Ilsh also until the paragons. I loved lowly characters being able to hunt shadow wisps for bones. Paragons killed a big area of the hunt grounds for some of us.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As long as you're positive karma, you can kill shadow wisps all day long and never get attacked by anything.

    What was your point again?.....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The point was they were agreeing with me, paragons killed a huge area that people used to hunt all the time, like bloods in Blood dungeon, was a favor hang out for us till the birth of Paragons. With a couple BOS fully charged we could do very well down there. When Paragons came we quit hunting alone in Ilsh and returned to the trammel dungeons we all know.

    Destard was the 2nd favor because of the gold, gems and leather we got off the beasts there. But they killed that for us with nerfing the BOS and dropping the super dragons there and other locations where the normal dragons spawns. I hate to think of a paragon super in ilsh. They hard enough to kill in Trammel.
     
  25. <blockquote><hr>

    I hate to think of a paragon super in ilsh. They hard enough to kill in Trammel.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You mean like this one?

    [​IMG]

    With me on foot, he'd wipe me out in a way I couldn't get away from when he targeted me. Fortunately, there's a shrine just up the way. When he got on my high-end superdragon I was able to keep up with the vetting.

    If it had been the type of monster to switch targets, it would have been crazier....

    BTW that was a stupid paragon efreet, you can see its corpse there... I had to heal my dragon through both of them until I finally got my dragon to switch targets to the efreet and get it dead, geez what a job.
     
  26. Ya, now try that with a non-tamer.
     
  27. <blockquote><hr>

    Ya, now try that with a non-tamer.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It requires at least one crosshealer, even on a vamp sammy dexer.

    [​IMG]
     
  28. Thats just how it should be for everyone, it should require a group.
     
  29. <blockquote><hr>

    Thats just how it should be for everyone, it should require a group.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    For what it's worth, on my tamer I did die like 3 times getting it set up, and I had to vet at the maximum possible speed to keep the dragon up.

    Death for death I'ma figure it worked out the same between dexer and his crosshealers vs. tamer.
     
  30. <blockquote><hr>

    Theres only one thing wrong with the paragon system: The fact that ML ruined it.

    It was great system, one of the better ones ever put into the game, but once ML made the minor arties comically common by 1) having them drop on swoops and miasmas, and 2) having like 1 in 3 miasmas drop a level 6 chest.

    It was so stupid, and ruined such a great part of the game.

    Solution: New minors, on a rotation (3 months some old cycle out, new ones cycle in, old ones return eventually), remove level 6 chests from miasma. It's loot is good enough.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You are correct. I am a big fan of ML, however they did not have the ish arti drops seperated out of the minors from ML creatures. Along with a very fast drop rate, we watched the value on all ish minors go down drastically. By the time they seperated out the drops, and slowed down the drop rate overall...it was far too late.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If i wanted to fight paragons, i'd go to illish, but since you can't even out run some of them, it's no fun to hunt or play illish, bloods are hard enough for some of my characters. They should just toss all the paragons into one area of the game, or dedicate an entire dungeon to them, and then the average joe fighters like myself could hunt and play in illish, and the more advanced gamers who love thougher challanges would have a hell of a dungeon.
     
  32. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    My point is, paragons have outlived their usefulness. Their loot is now horrible, their artis worthless. The only thing they do is chase beginner-moderate solo hunters away from utilizing the dungeons.

    I mean.. they WERE very exciting when they first came out. Now it's not.
    It's not a problem if it's not exciting, but when it causes the underutilization of a whole expansion, it is a problem.
     
  33. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    An as i suggested previously, a great solution is to throw the paragons all into one dungeon. That way the beginner-moderate players can hunt in ish, and the expert players get all the paragons they want.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Their loot is now horrible

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Oh? And just where do you get your ingredients for chocolates? hmm? [​IMG]
     
  35. "The only thing they do is chase beginner-moderate solo hunters away from utilizing the dungeons. "

    Maybe "Beginner" and "Moderate" players should be hunting these things in Tram then, and leaving the "Advanced" area to those that can handle it?

    Why should any "beginner" be able to walk into Ilsh and start taking on Paragons?

    Even so, there are "beginner" areas they can go to, just like the Lizardmen camp near Humility, or the Ratman caves near Sacrifice. If you're taking beginners to go kill Blood Ele's, there's something inherently wrong with that picture.
     
  36. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    I was in blood dungeon today picking on the blood eles with my pup and i wandered over to the demon room and spotted a para balron. I actually thought about it for a second but decided against it. I figure even if i win i dunno if i wanna stick around to loot.
     
  37. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If you're taking beginners to go kill Blood Ele's, there's something inherently wrong with that picture.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Beginners can kill deamons with a resist suit. Moderates should be able to kill blood elementals.
    Paragons are way out of any beginner-moderate league. Unless you're a tamer of course.

    My point is, on my server, the ish dungeons are empty. The ish areas are empty. Lack of players? Sure. That's part of the reason. Paragons chasing casual players off is another big reason.
    Are the ish dungeons in your server packed? I know mine is ALWAYS empty. I go to blood dungeon once-twice a day for balron faction from killing cus. This compared to full house occupancy before paragons came out.
     
  38. "Moderates should be able to kill blood elementals."

    They can. In one of the Tram dungeons. If they can't handle paragons, they have no business where they can spawn, and need to either raise skills higher or get better gear (or both) before attempting the tougher area. Ilsh is an advanced area, so it's a safe bet that a "moderate" player shouldn't be trying to take on something 5x tougher than a normal Blood elemental.


    "Paragons are way out of any beginner-moderate league. Unless you're a tamer of course."

    Then how would you explain the Paragon Balrons slain by both my archer and dexxer?
     
  39. sean_lo

    sean_lo Guest

    Connor,

    Your archer does 180+ dmg per shot in doom. Your sampire is well known across the samurai boards for having a 50+ mil setup. (Oh btw, did you finally solo dreadhorn yet? I know you were trying to for a while there.)

    Anyways, point being, you're not a moderate player. You're an end-game player decked out with arties and runic hammers to burn.

    If you want to see beginner-moderate players, come to my server and look at PAS. We have a constant influx of those casual players.

    One more thing to add, if memory serves me, there's only ONE blood elemental spawn in shame, compared to 6 wasted blood elemental spawns in blood dungeon ish?