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[Magery] Parry Effectiveness - what is it based on?

Discussion in 'UO Spellcaster' started by Risso, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    If I have 80 Dex will my Parry skill be effective or will I need to keep my stamina above 80 too?
     
  2. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Based on Dex only. And I think it's real Dex, not +Dex items, or -Dex curses.

    (but I'm only partially sure of the last sentence)
     
  3. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    im 90% certain you are wrong on the second part.

    I know it works with pots, so with 50EP you only need 55ish dex. I can only assume that if it works for pots it works for +dex items.
     
  4. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    how effective is parry against archers? ive heard it's good, but can anyone put down some #s- with 120 skill with a mage weapon, 100 parry, 80 dex.. how much will archers miss?
     
  5. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    With that set up:

    Chance to not be hit [45dci vs 45hci] 50%

    Chance to block the attack 17% with weapon, 30% with shield.

    So if my maths is correct you will block 58.5% of the time total [with one handed weapon]

    Or

    65% if you added wrestle and used a shield.
     
  6. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Mage wep with parry is not ideal, you really should do anatomy or wrestling. In PvP you must be able to chug without disarming something first, otherwise your teammates will have difficulty cross healing you.
     
  7. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Oops I forgot to add in the 45 DCI.

    Is mage weap+open hand, or wrestle+ Shield more effective at blocking arrows?

    How does anatomy tie into this?

    Currently I'm sitting at 60 DCI, 120 effective weaponskill using mage weap, and a shield, no parry. I still seem to get hit a lot

    thanks
     
  8. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Some one threw the numbers out there already. So lets go with a wall of text to baffle you:mf_prop:

    But to clarify your defense "skill" is based upon one of the following:
    • Open hand with wrestling (wrestling skill)
    • Open hand with anatomy skill (anat+eval+20 /2 is defense skill)
    • Mage weapon (mage skill)
    • Regular weapon (weapon skill)

    NOTE: pick whichever is most applicable. For example, if you have a weapon in your hand, wrestling and anatomy "defense" do NOT apply.

    The way it is determined if you are hit is the following:
    1. Attackers skill and HCI vs defenders skill and DCI (call this the hit phase)
    2. parry using a shield or weapon

    Before one gets to the hit phase, HCI and DCI are finally capped to 45. Thus, in theory, you could have 150 DCI before this phase but it is treated as 45 DCI. Because of this, 70 DCI blocks the -25 effect of hit lower defense.

    During the hit phase, if the attacker and defender have the same skill value with same value in HCI(for attacker) or DCI(for defender), there is a 50% chance of getting hit. The actual numbers from this "perfect" situation are out there so I won't dwell.

    If it is determined you are hit, you goto the parry phase. The chance to block is effected by dex... with 80 being ideal. From there, it is based upon parry, bushido, using a shield, or using a weapon. With a shield, 80 dex, and 120 parry, the defender has 35% chance of blocking. If it was a weapon, the chance drops to 20% Again, I won't go through and bring in forumulas since they are out there.

    One thing that hasn't been clear to me but I've heard claims that the human jack of all trades screws up the parry chance with a shield. I've heard the formula takes into account the 20 bushido and drops the chance to parry with a shield to 30%.

    In terms of "real world" testing, I play a parry mage(120 parry, 115 eval, 105 anat, 78 dex, and 70dci) and most of the time it works as expected... I get hit maybe once every three shots no matter the hit lower defense effect.

    With THAT said, there are some players who seem to hit five times(or more) in a row EVERYTIME I see them. This is without fail. While I'd admit the random number generator is streaky, I have not seen it streak in a positive manner for the same player(s) everytime:thumbdown:
     
  9. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    is there a reason you would want to go with wrestle or anat over a mage weapon? mage weapon lets you have DCI and FC1 on it, seems a good advantage?

    and is there a reason you would want to go with anatomy over wrestle? it seems you would spend around the same skill pts, does anatomy do something special wrestle does not or vice versa?
     
  10. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    First I'll start with wrestle vs anat since I have had both on my char. I started with wrestle but swapped it off when I couldn't leave a special move queued up. I don't have the timing down to pop off "weapon" specials in between spells. 2nd, if I have 120 eval, I only need 100 anatomy to be defensively equivalent to 120 wrestle. So this effectively frees up 20 points somewhere.

    The reasons I don't use spell weapons:
    • I use a shield and I want to chug. In classic client UO even with UO Assist, there isn't a method to disarm, chug, then re-arm that I've found.
    • Discounting the parry issue, if you don't have wrestle or anat, if you get disarmed, you get your butt handed to you by a dexer. Plus, if you are "relying" upon the FC1 on your weapon, your suit is trashed. This of course is a PvP only issue.

    This is just my opinion based upon my limited play style.
     
  11. grandpa otis

    grandpa otis Guest

    I have a noobie question here. Does a Mage/mystic or tamer/bard template that is strictly PVM have a need for(or receive any bonus from) DCI??? Or does DCI only come into play vs dexer type action???

    Or more simply, if I expect the toon to be taking spell damage ONLY, is there any bonus to having DCI???
     
  12. BlackMagus

    BlackMagus Guest

    DCI does not apply to spell damage.

    With some encounters you will though not be able to always avoid melee damage (e.g. teleporter special attacks), and this might mean insta death if you go without DCI and defensive setup...

    So: DCI will make some spawns easier. Overall, it's not required if you avoid melee and don't care about dying once in a while...
     
  13. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Mage weap + 45 DCI makes a dramatic difference in PVM when surrounded. I ran without it for months and once I made the change I will never go back.

    Or you can simply be more mindful of monster positions and manuver yourself better, but it's soo nice to know that should the sh*t hit the fan you will be able to take a few monsters beating on you without a sweat.

    Shouldn't be hard to fit even minimal amounts of DCI on any mage suit. My preference is to raise Magery to 140 through skill items, Put 15 DCI, Spell Channeling, FC1, and -20 Mage weap on your weap (or use a similar drop if you get lucky), wear Fey Legs. There's 35 right there. Toss in a quiver of infinity for 40. If you got lucky and did the Conjurer's Garb quest that'll put you at 45. If you PVP you'll want it at 70 total; although 45 is the cap, if you get hit with 'Hit Lower Defense', 70 is high enough that you'll drop to the cap of 45 DCI and lose nothing.
     
  14. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I use a Luck suit on my tamer and have 43DCI, it really isnt hard to do.
     
  15. Phelus

    Phelus Guest

    Hi there,

    Lets suppose i have this:

    X Magery
    X Eval
    X Medit
    X Resist
    120 Combat (Sw or Fenc)
    120 Parry
    120 Bushido

    With 70 DEX i have this chances:

    Chance of blocking with a shield: 5%
    Chance of blocking with a 1-handed weapon: 31%
    Chance of blocking with a 2-handed weapon: 36%

    Question:

    Does this mean that if i have a shield (5%) and a 1-handed weapon (31%) my chances of blocking go to 36% (5+31%)?

    Or it does a roundhorsekickmath and lower it all?


    Thanks!


    [EDIT]
    Ok the formula says: "Blocking with a 1-handed weapon (without a shield)"
    But what are the maths if i have shield and 1-handed weapon?
     
  16. Jimmy Pop

    Jimmy Pop Adventurer
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    You can have Two ONE handed weapons AND a shield and get 66% chance of blocking!! And load your backpack with two handed weapons for even more blocking power!!

    Just think about what your asking for a minute. Bushido eliminates the requirement to use a shield, why would you benefit?

    To answer your question, if you have Bushido and Parry on a char and decide to totally ignore the fact that with Bushido YOU BLOCK WITH A WEAPON and you chose to use a shield, you will block at 5%.

    Parry = block with shield
    Bushido + Parry = block with weapon
     
  17. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    ???
     
  18. Jimmy Pop

    Jimmy Pop Adventurer
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    This is why I seldom post on stratics.

    Phelus - I hope you understand that Shield parry and Weapon parry are two completely different things, so under NO case would you ever combine them. It's one or the other. If you have Bushido + Parry then you are penalized for using a shield (thats why parry with a shield is so low when you use Bushido).

    Lynk - Yes, if you equip 100 one handed weapons you get 31% parry chance for each giving you a 3100% chance to parry. Add a shield to get 3105% :lol:

    *OH and Lynk, the Purple Llama's you sometimes cast are ridable in Fel. Serious - try it.
     
  19. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    But dont you think they run slower than the real ones when mounted?
     
  20. MiNi MaGi

    MiNi MaGi Sage
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    to help answer the anat/eval V wrestling question..
    im not going into crazy details about how it works etc.. you can look this up yourself on stratics and find the formulas under the skills part of this site.

    just an example-

    with 120 wrestling when you look at the formulas you have like an 60-70% chance of defensive skill(not being hit) and you have the ability to disarm/para blow..

    with 120 eval/100 anatomy(can be any combination just has to total 220 skill points) you have like a 120% chance of defensive skill(not being hit) reason for this is simple you have no special abilities..

    now i know these formulas arnt 100% on but one thing is a fact i ran this template for 5 years and ran a wrestling mage for 4+ and with the anatomy/eval template you will get hit ALOT and i mean ALOT less by dexxers V wrestling.
     
  21. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    Jimmy has a special Horrific Beast character with 4 arms.

    Example - 2 hands holding weapons (warfork for disarm, the other a bokuto to nerve strike)

    1 holding a shield and the other free to drink pots. Simple right?
     
  22. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I think he just made a poor attempt at trying to be funny.

    Epic fail.
     
  23. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    /thread