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Parry Mages Fix/Nerve? - UPDATED

Discussion in 'UHall' started by IceCast, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. IceCast

    IceCast Journeyman

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    Dear Developers,

    It has come to my attention that after years and years of nerving dexxers/archers, mages have only been given boosts, for example the sdi boost for a focused mage, in my opinion a strong buff for the simple mage however the following situation occurs daily:

    I have several characters, mages, warriors, archers, parry mages, bush/parry mages.

    All of these characters have weaknesses except for the Parry Mage,

    The parry mage can use dexterity potions and dex increase items to reach 80 dex to get the full 35% benefit of parrying, this character cannot be disarmed hence it is impossible to fight this character in a 1v1 situation as a warrior or archer.

    A focused mage does on average 35 damage xplode/ebolt and 45 damage flamestrike, now this would be fair, if there was a chance that they would get interrupted while fighting a warrior/archer.

    Unfortunately this is not the case, in reality after the HCI VS DCI check, u are still left with 35% chance of not being able to hit your target, there is nothing you can do against this, you cannot disarm their shield, lower their parry chance, with the new masteries its even possible to Heighten Your senses
    ( increasing your parry chance)

    Please explain to me, why is it that the shield (originally used by warriors) has now made mages untouchable, does this not sound like something that should be changed?

    We can disarm weapons, we can disarm spell books, but shields are impossible to disarm?

    Here is another reason why i think this should be changed:

    Throwers can wear a shield, but their chance gets lowered to 0! why is this? becouse it would be unfair to be able to used ranged attacks in combination with being able to deflect melee/archer damage.

    A mage however does the exact same thing, but is allowed to use the full benefit of parrying?

    A few suggestions:

    1 - Make a dex cap for parry + anat/wrestle + magery of 40-50?
    2 - Half your parry chance in combination with wrestling or anatomy?( as it does when holding a weapon without bushido)
    3 - Make shields disarmable.
    4 - Make tactics a requirement for the parry chance with a shield?

    UPDATE:
    5 - Make hld, not only affect the defense chance, but also lower the actual parry chance!


    Dont get me wrong, i play parry mages, but at the end of the day i think the whole idea of pvp is to be able to kill anyone with any kind of character, it should not be that one template completely nullifies the other.
     
    #1 IceCast, Nov 12, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
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  2. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    With all of the weapons and effects available for dexxers to spam specials virtually non-stop... you are really crying that characters who have invested anywhere from 220-240 skill points just in defense are too OP for you.

    Playing a parry Mage comes with its trade offs. Is it a little stronger vs a dexxer than a Mage with just a Mage weapon? Sure it is. But it also usually means less mana and fewer offensive spells than other Mage templates.
     
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  3. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I do agree to an extent, ( I don't have any mages with parry although I do use shields on most of them), But, on top of the 67.5% chance to dodge/parry, most people also have 12-17 casting focus 17 (with scribe), so even if they do get hit, they may still get their spell off.

    The only trade off is not having ninjitsu to escape dismounts ganks easier sure stats can make a difference, but it's not hard to have 130-150 mana with 88 dex after pots. 30% sdi does enough damage to compensate not having another spell-school, you could kill a person in like 3-4 spells after curse...

    What should really happen (IMO) is Alchemy & Poisoning should drop the SDI cap down to 15%, and Inscription should be 15% sdi increase but not exceed the 30% for focus mages.

    Oh, lets not forget the Poison Immunity Chance & Casting Focus should be removed from the game!
     
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  4. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    something i've been saying for 5 years now...

    virtually cancels out dexer templates, as if they don't even exist

    where's my skill to block spells? don't reply with "YOU GUYS HAVE EVASION" - there's a cooldown, AND you need 2x skills
     
  5. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    SDI mages can not enjoy the benefit of animal forming away like most dexxers do. So when the mage gets put on foot and someone takes care of there horse they are SOL. I guess most people complaining are the 211 stam archers who cant disarm mages and there running shots don't hit 100% of the time o yeah and there constant mortal spams.
    If you want a Nerf start with Archers then work your way down to smoke bombs/Animal Form, thats a start.
    Use a mage with no parry and see how long you can last fighting a disarm archer
     
  6. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    archer nurf is simple:

    increase the mana cost of moving shot and/or make it do 75% base damage.
     
  7. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    Everthing you have said sounds right except the scribe bonus is a separate calculation from the SDI bonus we get from items.
     
  8. Zuckuss

    Zuckuss Order | Chaos
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    I am actually surprised that such a thread exists. I thought it was blatently obvious that mages (even parry) are underpowered compared to virtually any dexy temp. In my opinion it requires more memory use and hand-eye coordination to play a mage on account of the complexity factor being greater than that of a dexxer and that fact alone is (and has been) a handicap against mage templates.
     
  9. Critical Gaming

    Critical Gaming Lore Master
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    I was just talking to someone last night and we were discussing how the game is very balanced right now overall. The waki nerf was perfect.
     
  10. Kei

    Kei Knight of Kingdom of God
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    Parry mages are balanced as it is. They are sturdy no doubt but the burst is only average. No one dies to one exp fs fs combo and it is very unlikely to not get interrupted in that span of 5 seconds. If you see that you are missing 4 hits in a row, it's time to go defensive or run.

    Mages are forced to take up parry due to the high burst potential of archers and dexxers.

    Lastly, you may argue that there are players who capped casting focus or have insane +skills jewels to squeeze in mystic for more burst on the parry Mage making it appears god like. But that's an issue of gears. A well geared archers/fencer guy can and will put up a good fight.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    That's true, scribe is a flat +10% spell damage, depending on spells it's more effective than an additional +10 sdi to cap would be.

    I'd use scribe if it didn't add a 5% Casting Focus.
     
  12. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    Icecast wtf? I expected better of you.

    Great idea, my 120 parry mage that can still get shot down by 2x archers in less than 30 seconds (rng hurrah, no miss or parry in 5 shots = dead mage) its bs.

    Parry mages are the only mage template worth playing now with how powerful dexers and dexer suits have become with disarm splinter and orc brutes etc.



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  13. WhiteWitch

    WhiteWitch Journeyman

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    Lets not also forget that a mage cannot cast while moving, heals or damage, a good dexxer who knows when to run need not ever die, especially in the case of an archer who is already at range, he can just keep getting out of range when gets hurt waiting for the heal to kick in, he just needs to keep resetting the fight this way till the RNG goes his way, a mage cant ever chase him down and kill him like he can to the mage.

    A throwers shield penalty isn't really comparable.
     
  14. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    Point and click online please devs!!

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
     
  15. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    This is why aliens won't talk to us.

    Playing a mage especially in pvp requires much more skill than playing any dexer template. To kill and stay alive. Hense why they are powerful but they are not overpowered, even with parry and wrestle.

    How many mages can rock off 35dmg +10 +5 (comparable to ai hit spell and velocity) in 1.25seconds and do about 9 of them consecutively without being interupted?

    You've already got the ability to never get disarmed using new mastery and now you wanna nerf mages even more?? Make us all use mage weps so we can get killed by disarm archers all day?

    This post is as dumb as ive ever seen.

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  16. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Babbling Loonie
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    Delete this thread please.

    There are more archers in the game then NPCs.... You should ask yourself why....
     
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  17. StealYourFace

    StealYourFace Journeyman

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    I played a necro Mage for years. The suits that dexers can put together now just became too much. Disarmed , dismounted, with 5 archers on your ass doin mortal / moving shot. The problem is that as a parry / wrestle Mage all I seem to do is cross heal because everyone in my group plays archers now for some reason. I wonder why that is? Just to survive I gave up the only thing about pvp that I liked which was Mage vs Mage. Now if I do come across a decent Mage all I can do is keep him busy because I don't have the damage output to take him down .

    Personally I enjoyed the pvp more before imbueing and reforging came out. I see people buying rings and bracelets for 700 or 800 mil that have 60 skill and every mod known to man. People are coming up with new temps that should have never been possible. by adding this new gear I think they made it impossible to ever balance pvp. At this point you would have to start nerfing skills and weapons and that's never a good thing because you start messing up people's game that don't even pvp.
     
  18. whitesmith

    whitesmith Sage

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    Real skill vs ring/brace/arty skill should have some output difference...
     
  19. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    The amount of key bindings to use really isn't that ridiculous. Decision making, play style, these are things that are a factor when determining a player's skill level - not how many keys you can remember.

    In reality, no one has 64 spells bound to keys. Let's be honest, we all leave some spells as buttons to click because they are less likely to be used, such as earthquake, protection, reactive armor, etc.

    This is a pretty standard setup - but of course no two players will have the same setup.

    Common Binds:
    1. Greater Cure
    2. Greater Heal
    3. Greater Refreshment
    4. Enchanted Apple
    5. Supernova
    6. Greater Conflagration

    Magery Binds:
    1. Heal
    2. Magic Arrow
    3. Weaken
    4. Cure
    5. Harm
    6. Bless
    7. Fireball
    8. Poison
    9. Teleport
    10. Wall of Stone
    11. Arch Cure
    12. Curse
    13. Fire FIeld
    14. Greater Heal
    15. Lightning
    16. Recall
    17. Dispel Field
    18. Paralyze
    19. Poison Field
    20. Energy Bolt
    21. Explosion
    22. Invisibility
    23. Paralyze FIeld
    24. Energy Field
    25. Flame Strike
    26. Mass Dispel
    27. Resurrection
    28. Target Last Target Macro
    29. Target Current Target Macro
    Dexer/Ninja Binds:
    1. Smoke Bomb
    2. Grape of Wrath
    3. Primary Ability
    4. Secondary Ability
    5. Focus Attack
    6. Death Strike
    7. Disarm Weapon/Macro
    8. Mortal Weapon/Macro
    9. Frenzied Whirlwind Weapon/Macro
    10. Dismount Weapon/Macro
    11. Nerve Strike Weapon/Macro
    12. Confidence
    13. Attack Nearest Target Macro
    14. Attack Stored or Current Target Macro
    15. Store Target Macro
    16. Evasion
    17. Counter-Attack
    18. Animal Form
    19. Shadow Jump
    20. Mirror Image
    21. Stealth
    22. Hiding
    23. Poison Weapon Macro
    24. Secondary Suit for Stealthing Macro
    "You don't need a macro for mortal/disarm/blah blah blah" - no, but you still need a macro to switch to that weapon. This is why I listed it as Weapon/Macro.
     
    #19 sibble, Nov 13, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
  20. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    The major difference in your list is that most Mage templates will have virtually all of those macros plus any additional spell disciplines. Whereas most dexxer templates will use a smaller subset based on the template (for example: several of your dexxer macros are stealth related).

    Seems to me you are comparing a list of the most basic Mage to one of the most complex dexxer... And even then, the Mage has more.

    You can effectively run a disarm/archer with the following:
    1. Bandage self
    2. Heal potion
    3. Cure potion
    4. Refresh potion
    5. Apple
    6. Box
    7. Equip last weapon
    8. Primary ability
    9. Secondary ability
     
  21. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    Most dexers I know run around 7 to 15 macros tops with 10-15 icons on screen.

    My necro weaving mage has 53 SET macros with another 15 icons on his screen.
     
  22. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    Just my play styles but I use 28 macros on my Mage.

    My fencer archer only has 13.

    The disarm mastery is only used in other dexers.

    It's a great deal harder to play a Mage than the archer because the macros are continually used. The archer is less frequent as you wait for heals and specials to go off.

    Any attempts at nerfing the parry Mage would probably make me stop using it.

    Doing some dirty math, you're going to get hit at least 3 times in 10 seconds at max swing speed.
    With an ai and hit spell that's going to be a minimum damage of 135 points in 10 seconds.

    If Mage is casting in the same 10 seconds they're getting hit at least three times if they hAve parry and a weapon skill. We can assume this roughly three spells worth averaging 1.8 seconds per exp and fs each.

    So two spells in 3.5 seconds, four spells total in 10 seconds at best, with exp fs going to be at most ~150 points using 40 points for fs and 35 for an explosion. This may be a little more or little less depending on the Mage.

    So this is pretty equal especially if they add velocity on the hit.
    To recap dexers = a minimum of 135 points without velocity in 10 seconds.

    Mages at most ~150 points in 10 seconds with parry and 120 weapon.

    Clearly the argument is kind of skewed due to RNG but to get a comparison I'd say they're pretty equal.
     
  23. Balinor of Pk?

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    Would you noobs be quiet before some dev gets it in their head to screw up pvp even more? Seriously, just be quiet. I understand you noobs haven't learned yet that the devs can't make a decent pvp patch to save their lives. So shut it.
     
  24. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    The problem is Parry Mages using the Parry Mastery, Shield Bash. Exp+FS+Shield Bash is like 105-110 damage, plus your Paralyzed from Shield Bash, so they can just Exp+FS you again to finish you off.
     
  25. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    Box the para? Apple the curse? Refine suit for plus fire resist? Bad prep is not a reason to call for a nurf.

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  26. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    It is actually very difficult to land a shield bash unless you happen to get them to stand there long enough.

    It's only active for 5 seconds and eats mana to activate.
     
  27. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I see less and less magic casting characters in yew, but mages are too OP...hrm someone must of just got killed by a parry Mage..


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  28. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    5 out of my 9 executable ais (45dmg or so a pop) pinged off a mages shield... whaaaa

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