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PAWS

Discussion in 'UHall' started by whiterabbit, Mar 25, 2012.

  1. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
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    Can someone give me the history of PAWS and why so many want what might be in this place

    Ozog of Chessy
     
  2. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Paws was a small village south of Britain, generally the home of the displaced poor. In UO, Paws is the four small buildings directly south of Britain along the coast.

    The history of Paws in the mainline Ultimas is rather sad.

    Edit: Now that I'm back at mt PC, I can post more.

    From the Codex of Editable Widsom:

    Paws is a town that already existed in the time of Ultima I in the Lands of Lord British. Though it wasn't seen in Ultima II or Ultima III, it survived the cataclysm that formed Britannia, and became a farming center in Ultima IV. A wall was later erected around the town, and Paws was still a farming center by the time of Ultima V.

    The walls were eventually razed, and the town expanded a bit. Besides farming, Paws also became famous for their weavers, their fame great at the time of Ultima VI.

    Roughly 180 years later, a seven-year drought ruined most of the farmers of Paws. Poverty spread in the town, leaving it a broken shell. The poverty was still present in Ultima VII, with Paws only slowly recovering, while fearing to be swallowed by Britain.

    By the time of Ultima IX, Paws was slowly being engulfed by the swamps and became a place of misery once more. The mayor or Britain, Aidon also carted all the sick and poor to Paws - arguing that this would help them to recover, and in turn to help the citizens of Paws. He eventually changed his policy after seeing his own daughter being carted to Paws and the situation slowly began to improve.


    More about the UO Paws:

    Crawworth, of FoA hunting and Lost Lands Expidition fame, was said to be from the village. It is also said that Paws was destroyed by orcs when he was a child. Most shards seem to ignore this "history" in favor of the four buildings being caled Paws.
     
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  3. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Martyna summed it up nicely. Very sad history.

    If you want to read of happier times, or to see a bunch of pictures and maps of its evolution through the Ultima games:

    Paws - The Codex of Ultima Wisdom, a wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online

    Map of its location

    File:Lcpaws.gif - The Codex of Ultima Wisdom, a wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online

    In Ultima VII it was pretty diverse

    File: Pawsu7.jpg - The Codex of Ultima Wisdom, a wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online

    This was the map of the village itself from Ultima IX

    File:U9-paws.jpg - The Codex of Ultima Wisdom, a wiki for Ultima and Ultima Online
     
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  4. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Ozog,

    A lot of the information you are seeking is currently being pieced together through clues from past and current EM storyline that have occurred on Chesapeake Shard.
    Also a lot is learned through interactions with the various RPC that are appearing at EM events, books found, items layed out strangely, etc.. Also as has been stated many times by the EMs, 'actions have consequences'.

    For Example. shoving an RPC into a fountain may make that RPC reluctant to share information with you in the future.(lol...who would DO that!)

    I know some of us on the shard have learned bits and pieces by attending events, listening, interacting and being in the right place at the right time, but I'm not sure any of us have pieced together the big picture yet. And honestly thats the whole fun of it. The story is ongoing and dynamic. I'd recommend seeking out people who attend events frequently and ask lots of questions. Also I've gone back and read as much of the Chesapeake Shard Directory Archives as I can about past stories. All that said, I'd be happy to share the pieces I've learned, but I cant guarantee I'm right either.
     
  5. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    A certain GL player once shoved an EM RPC's face into a bowl of mashed potatoes to get him to talk. In fact, we tend to threaten quite a few of them with bodily harm on an alarmingly regular basis in the pursuit of knowledge.

    I think we have issues... :devil:
     
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  6. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    Close. But not quite.

    UO Stratics *New* | Paws

    Paws (Town of Simplicity)

    “The loss of the village of Paws was a horrible tragedy… yet another fragment of old Sosaria gone, lost forever to the hordes of evil…”

    Location: Southwest of Britain, consists of a number of small farms. Originally was north of Trinsic, in the Fens of the Dead. Only one ruined structure remains.

    Virtue: None.

    Government: Considered part of Britain.

    Imports: None.

    Exports: Food.

    Heraldry

    None

    Geography
    Paws is the name for a large rural region of the Britain region lying southwest of the Old Fort. Paws once lay in the area north of Trinsic, at the north central area of the swamps, which have become known as the Fens of the Dead. The inhabitants of Paws had built large dikes to divert the swamp water, creating large tracts of arable land to farm. The dikes long since collapsed due to neglect, and the swamp reclaimed its lost territory. All but one of the buildings, and the graveyard, were lost. Since then those two structures have become haunted places, avoided by many.

    History
    Before the Shattering, Paws was a sizable farming community, who grew enough food to feed nearly half of Lord British’s lands. The Cataclysm shifted the land considerably, but the town lay on a relatively stable plate, and ended up in a lowland area, surrounded by quickly forming swamps.

    It took several years, but slowly the people of Paws constructed a complex system of dykes to divert the water of the swamp, to make tracts upon which to construct their homes from the wood nearby. They lived by simple hunting and gathering for a few decades, before developing new strains of crops capable of being grown with a low level of water, as rice is grown.

    Paws wasn’t discovered for many years, ironically it was a ship from Vesper that found the small community in 72 A.C. rather than Britain, who were far closer. Paws developed a closer relationship to Britain, though, because of the relative distance. They traded their simple foodstuffs for crafted tools and items impossible for them to make themselves.

    Paws survived many centuries of conflict on the mainland due to its relative isolation. Very few armies could cross the wide swamp, or resist the diseases that lay in its waters. (The people of Paws were renowned for their incredible resistance to disease.) The Great Earthquake in 101 A.C. had subsided by the time it reached them, but the waves were another story. The rise of water came over the dykes, forcing the inhabitants to take to what ships they could find until it passed.
     
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  7. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Seer Adamantyr's work is nice and all...but it isn't UO cannon and contains details found nowhere else.

    The first time Paws is mentioned in regards to UO is in the BNN article Lord Nicolus Kidnapped but Valiantly Rescued! from 12/28/99. In the article, it very clearly indicates where Paws is. Relevent exerpt:

    Paws isn't mentioned again until the Crisis in Britannia, day 117 audio drama of 2000.
     
  8. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    It's about as close to canon as we got. Considering UO doesn't have a canon and the lore changes with each developer turnover.

    ...and farmers tend to build farms. Both sources agree that the farmers were relocated into the West. That the four huts is Paws is one of those assumptions we've turned into lore over time.
     
  9. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    BNN is better cannon then that collection of docs, sorry. Ilshenar's temporal schizophrenia and Mark Steelman’s lackadaisical attention to what came before aside, most of UO Britannia's lore/history is relatively stable. Very little of Adamantyr's work exists outside of said work, none of the sources cited back it up. No official fiction has ever referenced it, nor have the modern EMs. It has the same status as any work of fan fiction.
     
  10. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    If many moved south and west, could that be the creation of Skara's fields? SW of trinny swamps is mountains. makes me think Paws would be the one closer to Brit. might be the reason for the cut thru the mountains w. of Brit, farm trade to Skara
     
  11. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    And that's where I'm going to have to disagree with you.

    BNN / UO Lore is a gaggle of unresolved plots and forgotten characters. And it tells us nothing about the lore of the cities and Britannia itself.

    Is Shattered Worlds canon? No idea. But it was written by someone who at the time was of higher rank than the average player. Which means it probably has a little more weight than player lore about four huts.
     
  12. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    "Canon" in contexts like this one usually refers to fiction or lore that's generally accepted as coming from the manufacturer or writer. For example in Star Trek, what went on in the shows and movies is considered "canon." Certain things that fans like to imagine aren't necessarily "canon." Some extra-canon things can be quite reasonable, some maybe aren't, and surely no one questions the right of fans to let their minds wander far and wide, but that doesn't mean they are "canon" in the absolute sense.

    Now, with UO, we have a product that's had been through many hands, and surely canon gets confused somewhat. Ilshenar's lore is the best example, but fortunately Great Lakes' Event Moderators are skilled at reconciling the various threads in a way that more or less makes sense!

    But, at any rate, in UO we still do have certain lore that can be safely considered canon because it came from the manufacturer. We do not have to like it, and indeed there's no specific obligation to even follow it. I've known dudes who play UO pretending it was the Star Wars universe. I've known dudes who play UO pretending it was some variant on the Tolkien universe. I know dudes who insist that Britannia is often the villainous oppressor, a police state espousing fascism and world dominating tendencies, and the hero is most often the rebel, the thief and the liar. On LS once I met Sauron from Lord of the Rings in an elvish tavern.

    One is free to ignore the canon lore, to play according to something different. Lord knows I would never publicly criticize one kind of RP over another (RP isn't a competition to me, though I might offer suggestions).

    But, just because not everyone plays according to the canon lore don't mean the canon lore ain't there.

    This particular excerpt from your post is key:

    If by "shattered worlds" you mean the fact that the shards exist, that they were created by the Stranger's shattering of the Gem of Mondain? Then, yes, Warder, it is canon by the commonly accepted definition of that term. It is lore that came from the manufacturer and indeed such was the subject of the UO intro movie that we had for years and years and years. We've had it mentioned and discussed in-game, Lord British has referred to it in-game, it's the subject of in-game books done by the manufacturer.

    You, Warder, and the group of players that clusters around you, may ignore it if you wish, I cannot possibly stop you, and as RP isn't a competition to me I wouldn't necessarily be inclined to stop you even if I could. But I am afraid that it really should, indeed, be considered canon, as it fits the only possible definition of that term we can have in this context.

    No one is trying to strangle you and your friends with the lore, but there's a distinct difference between not following the lore and pretending it ain't there.

    Apologies to the original poster who asked a fairly simple question only to find said question diverted into what is in essence a philosophical question over what counts as canon and doesn't.

    I was confused by the Paws stuff too, actually. So confused that I regrettably mistook it for lore when I made the UOGuide.com article on Paws. But oh well, I was younger then.

    -Galen's player
     
  13. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    One. We're discussing Seer-penned lore. A Seer who was given the authority to create events and lore for UO.

    Not fan fiction.

    Two. We're discussing whether GL's Fan Fiction - and that is what it is - about Paws being four small huts on the edge of Britain carries more weight than a Seers work. Zmuir's BNN quote doesn't mention four small huts. In fact it matches the Location in Adamtyr's piece.

    Let's not twist what I have said, shall we? You're attempts to suggest I don't follow the lore because I don't follow your shards unique conventions is amusing at best.
     
  14. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Ozog,

    Go to Britain Public Library on Chesapeake. As you enter the library there will be 2 Bags of books sitting on the table. One bag contains 'Copies of Documents relating to Paws' the other bag contains 'Copies of Books found inside Paws Ruins'.
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The way you keep changing conditions and terms is one of the many problems in responding to you, Warder.

    Marty's post referenced a very small and rather limited amount of information about Paws.

    You posted stuff that went considerably beyond that. She questioned it, pointing out that it wasn't canon. You questioned her by questioning the idea of canon, even to the point of questioning the shattered worlds thing, and now multiple posts later you are back to being the pro-canon dude. You even mentioned the four buildings, which I didn't, and when she mentioned it she specifically said:

    In other words not at all referencing GL fan fiction, or whatever term you used for it, as other than that status.

    So....Yeah. You keep changing premises, making it very hard to argue with you because we're always arguing about something else.

    It works for you, I guess.

    *shrugs*

    -Galen's player
     
  16. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    Shattered Worlds - or the Historical Background of Shattered Worlds - is the name used to refer to Seer Adamtyr's piece. You know that as well as I.

    Attempting to twist my words into suggesting I deny the canonicity of the Shards is rather absurd.

    That so?

    It seems your issue is with me and not the information I'm providing. In which case, I suggest you contact me privately and we'll resolve it there.

    Now how about we get this thread back on topic?
     
  17. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Actually, no, I didn't.

    The place to point that out sincerely was, oh, I don't know, 3 posts ago or so, when I first made the error.

    Good job on the "gotcha" game, though.

    Except that I first made the error, and note that I admit openly that it was an error, multiple posts ago, and you waited until now to correct it.

    Again: Well played "gotcha" game. You are, I freely admit, much better at that than I am.

    The posts I actually made cannot reasonably be taken that way. The key word is "reasonably."

    You, lest folks forget, are the one who made this about what was and was not canon, by attempting to use non-canon source materials as thought it were canon, then questioning the idea of canon itself.

    There is fairly scant "official" or "canon" information on Paws. Martyna's player has conveyed it well. Tradition has assigned the name to the shanty town outside of Britain, on the west side, and there's also other non-canon fiction which is oft-mistaken, by yourself in this thread and by myself when I wrote the UO Guide article on Paws, for canon.

    That's the stuff in this thread that's on-topic. The rest is you doing what you do, my calling you out for it, then you doing it again.

    I'm rather happier remaining on topic, actually. Remember that it was you who strayed from Paws into the notion of what was and was not canon.

    Let me post your exact quote as you appear to have forgotten it:

    No one, until you, questioned whether or not canon lore existed. You merely mistook non-canon for canon lore, as I once did as well. I was plainly wrong, as you are now, and as I was on what you meant by "shattered worlds." I admit that freely and openly.

    I, however, am fully aware of the fact that I'll never win a "last and strongest-worded post wins" discussion (if one can term it such) and honestly I'm quite comfortable with that, especially since the topic seems to keep changing on me. I like to stay more-or-less focused.

    And there it is.

    To repeat:

    There is fairly scant "official" or "canon" information on Paws. Martyna's player has conveyed it well. Tradition has assigned the name to the shanty town outside of Britain, on the west side, and there's also other non-canon fiction which is oft-mistaken, by yourself in this thread and by myself when I wrote the UO Guide article on Paws, for canon.

    -Galen's player
     
  18. WarderDragon

    WarderDragon Babbling Loonie
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    Sorry, Ozog. It seems we've managed to drag this thread off course.

    If you ever wish to discuss the lore of Paws, you know where to find me.
     
  19. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Calm boys, its not worth working yourselves into a froth over.

    "Shattered Worlds" is not cannon in any way, shape, or form. It may have been written by a Seer, but having been one, I know that that doesn't mean squat. The docs were never "officially sanctioned" by OSI. They make for an interesting read like any other piece of fiction, but only players have used them to any 'meaningful extent.'

    As far as GL is concerned, it is not player-written fiction that names the four huts SW of Britain as Paws, but EM Malachi. He has used that location as Paws many times now. He has also placed the time Zog cast Armageddon at around 700,000ish years in the past, not the scant 6,541 years Adamantyr made up.

    It is far better to go with the broad strokes of the OFFICIAL OSI/Mythic/BioWare BNN fiction coming from TPTB along with the collective work of the current EMs (which seems to be created by consensus).
     
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  20. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    I'd have to go with Martyna here..
    I also think that when people use the words "lore" and "canon" they should remember that Ultima Online is just one part of the Ultima history.
    I think Martyna did a good job compiling a short history of Paws early in the thread.
     
  21. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
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    SO WHY DOES IT SEEM ALLA DA PEOPLE WANTS TO TAKE OBER PAWS? BEES DER SUMIN DER?

    OZOG
     
  22. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    Ozog that is hard to say. The lore for Paws on Chesy is non specific. It might be there is something there it could be a simple land grab. Its hard to say.
     
  23. SunWolf

    SunWolf Seasoned Veteran
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    Actualy only a name was on the documents as an aurthor that wrote them up as guidelines about Ultima Online and it's cities. But the source that had them all and found them remembers they was all written up by several game masters and several seers back in 97-98. Alot of people lived around Austin back then and played UO, I really think this is a group of people who got together and worked on all the lore, but just like anything else or other themes things always change over the years or reworded differently. Alot of history in the ultima series
     
  24. Mirt

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    That lore is not cannon and if fact much of it cannot even be used according to my sources. Remember that as fondly as some of us want to remember the seers they sued EA. I would challenege anything they put together being volunteers as cannon. Also much of it only came from that one thing. It never seems anyone acted on it. I view that as cannon for the shard that seer worked but not for anything else. I am assuming that your talking about Shattered Worlds which was already discussed.
     
  25. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Actually it was the Counselors that sued EA, the Seers got wrapped up in it because they were volunteers as well.
     
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  26. Mirt

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    Martyna I am not sure that the class action was that clean. But it did pretty much change the nature of the game when it relates to who owns what. Thats why many that come back feel disappointed becuase much of what was done back then EA doesn't really have the rights too it can become an issue with moving forward.