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Peerless Resources need rethinking ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I have been noticing some weird instances in regards with Peerless resources, partly because ML has been out for long now, but also and particularly after imbuing became a reality.

    My understanding is, that Peerless resources where designed to spawn as they do (on bosses), to make them hard to get and to create a market of them (revenues to those hunting the bosses).

    Now, this screwed up a lot of dedicated crafters (some even stopped playing the game because of this) who now had to turn to fighters for the needed ingredients to their crafts but that's another entire story, not part of this discussion.

    The point here is, that this situation made ML resources gain quite high values.

    Initially, the goods crafted with them reflected this and for crafters there still was some margin.

    Eventually, though, partly because the hunters also trained up their own crafters, and also because the market saturated with the final products (scrappers, Spell Woven Britches, Stitcher's Mittens, etc.) as well as imbuing made it possible to craft similar items with less trouble, has made it so that it is now not uncommon that Peerless resources craftables no longer sell and when they do, they do not even recover the cost for resources used up.

    For example, saved up the rare very good Scrapper's Compendiums that occasionally are crafted, it is not unusual to see many selling (or one should better say "not selling") at 10,000 gp which does not even recover the cost for the peerless resources used up to make them.........

    And even in the case of the better, rarer Scrappers, before actually being able to make one of these, tens upon tens upon tens of lesser Scrappers which will never or very hardly sell will need to be made making the cost for resources hardly worth the hassle even in that case.
    If the cost of making a regular scrapper is about 1.5 millions, between Dread horn Mane, Corruption and Taint some (200k for mane, 500k for 10 Corruptions and on average 800k for 10 Taints) and only, say, 1 Scrapper is good out of some 10-20 crafted, this means that the cost of making that good Scrapper will be about 15 to 30 millions in resources used up especially, when the "regular" Scrappers will remain unsold, just a waste of resources used up in the process.

    Not to mention, that Invasion Spellbooks made it even worse, competing vs. scrappers, since sometimes they came out even better than scrappers with their 30% SDI and 3 MR.........

    Same thing with Spell Woven Britches, it is not uncommon to find them for like 300,000 gp not making it worth the trouble when Eye of the Travesty alone, most time sells around 250,000 gp.

    The point of my argument is, that given the many years that have passed since ML release, all of the changes to the game, perhaps it is time that the whole Peerless resources and craftables are changed and alternate ways for crafters to gain access to those resources others than fighting the Peerless bosses are provided (for example as loot from Treasure Hunting and Fishing chests ?).

    Just a thought.
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    As a crafter who has made some of these things I'll say, my usual approach when asked for these items is 'you bring me the ingredients, I'll make it for you, for a fee'. I'm almost sure that's how it was intended to work.

    Any crafter who stopped playing simply because of the rarity of those few ingredients and the limited number of things that can be made from them didn't really want to play in the first place and used that as an excuse. (in my opinion of course).
     
  3. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    I agree with popps. I like the fishing loot part.

    Wait a minute....
    *Smacks self*
    *pinches self*
    *Dunks head in water*

    Okay yes I am awake. Good points popps. Two thumbs up and I am a crafter. I don't do much crafting because of the way the ingredients are setup.

    (And I didn't cringe at IMHO. Except for Petra had to go and ruin it :p )
     
  4. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    oki, Scrappers is an exception, since it doesn't have set mods but can be added to, unlike spellwoven britches where every pair made is the same.
     
  5. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    I was already breaking my mind about the scrapppers. If it is intentional that those can get additional mods or if it is more likely a bug that should be fixed.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Was it ? I am not sure.....

    If it was, there would have been some secure crafting menu designed while instead, when any player handing out valuable resources basically is risking loosing them depending on who is on the receiving part. And in UO, over the years, I have noticed that scams are not exactly difficult to bump into......

    Besides, that entirely cuts out the ability of a crafter to make one's own goods AND sell them on a vendor. It merely reduces the work of a crafter to some service which could well be done by a NPC, then........ and in more safety (no risks of being scammed).

    Just go to the pertaining NPC, hand out the resources and the NPC makes the item.

    Nope, I see crafting differently.......
     
  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I seriously doubt that it might be a bug because if it was, then it would be one quite significant to game play which has been left unlooked at for years and years.......

    Nope, it cannot be, IMHO.
     
  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Possibly, on the other hand, the idea of players co-operating and working together to achieve something is inherent in quite a lot of the developers' intentions. There has often been a tendency to disregard the baser side of human nature at the planning stage.

    I tend not to have too many 'trust' issues when I offer to make something for someone.

    I make and sell a variety of lesser items on vendors, but artifact level pieces I make only to order as I've previously stated.
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I can see that for Stygian Abyss ingredients, though, a different approach to the ML one was luckily taken. Crafters have alternate ways to get their ingredients and new ones come out form time to time.

    And that is because after so many years from ML initial release, things in the game have changed so much that they totally unbalanced things as in regards to Peerless ingredients crafting.

    To a point, is my argument, that it should grant some rethinking and new designing of them........
     
  10. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    No, that is because I decided when ML came out I would only craft those pieces if the buyer supplied the special ingredients. I have not changed my stance in the years since. I do not sell artifact pieces on my vendors, and never have.

    On the other hand I realise I am unusual in that I run my vendors to supply a service to less afluent players and not to amass gold. I have no interest whatsoever in becoming wealthy in game.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I can understand that, but more than a issue of making gold, I see it more an issue of "time".......

    Even though, in an (unfortunately, to my opinion) item based game where high end items can make the difference in winning or losing a PvP fight, money does play a factor.......

    A player wanting to craft at a marginal profit, can still put the crafted wares on one's own vendor with a low price tag, merely covering the cost for resources should this be the desire.

    So, making the final item and placing it on a vendor up for sale does not necessarily make it not possible to craft at a marginal profit.

    What it sure does, though, is allow a player to make things at one's own convenience (i.e. playing time schedule......).
    Offering a service when handed out resources, instead, besides involving trading risks, it also requires both the customer and the crafter to be both present in the game at the same time.

    With a game played 24/7 with people from different time zones, this might not be necessarily possible.

    So, I'd rather prefer seeing Peerless ingredients be re-thought and things straightened up from the unbalance there currently is, rather than just rely on crafters and customers meeting up for barely a crafting service to be provided.

    But that's just the way I see crafting, personally, and how it best fits in this type of game and how it is played, with people having different schedules and living in different time zones.
     
  12. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I play on Siege and live in the UK. I know about time zones.

    While your idea may have some merit, I'm afraid to my mind it appears to be 'make work' for developers who already have more to do than time and resources allow.

    and that, to quote you, is how I see it. My input, on a personal level, to this thread is done.
     
  13. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmmm, then I guess it is pointless to discuss pretty much about any game related thing, ain't it ?

    I mean, if UO is at a point where not much can be done for lack of sufficient resources, then why bother even talking about what might be advisable to do ?

    And, if it ain't worth discussing game related issues, then why bother having Forums on Stratics to discuss them ?

    It ain't clear much to me whether it is ok to talk about game related issues or it has become pointless........
     
  15. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I gave my opinion. I told you it was only my personal opinion. I claim to speak for no one else but myself. Not 'Stratics' opinion, my own, personal one.

    It is also my very own personal opinion that there is no such thing as 'balance' in a game, because everyone's opinion of what constitutes 'balance' is biased his own views.

    However I am prepared to adapt my playstyle to the game as it is and not expect the game to adapt to my playstyle. Again this is my personal opinion.
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Please, bear with me as sometimes I am slow to understand, my fault, I know....

    So, as a player of the game, on a personal opinion basis you think discussing the issue is moot and pointless but as a Stratics moderator you think it is very fine to discuss it nonetheless ?

    Or did I understand it wrong ?
     
  17. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    That is correct.
     
  18. T'Challa

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  19. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Sady those days are long gone. You can see that the dev gave up on that train of thought as soon as SA came out where everyone can get there own stuff without much work and don't need anybody else for what they need.
    Even the ML ingrediants were a failure because anybody who could farm those ingrediants have there own crafters. There is up to 7 slots one can use they only need 1 slot for a crafter. Siege excluded of course.
     
  20. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    Is there anyone in the game who only plays a crafter? Of course, Siege is omitted from this question.

    My impression is that the majority of crafters exist to support the main character or vice versa.

    I think the peerless ingredients are fine as they are. After all, this is supposed to be a multi-player game, and as far as I could tell, the basis of the OP is another way to push the game to make players self sufficient.

    Now, as crafting works for me, if someone wants to commission my services, that's fine. If I have the materials required, I go forth and craft. If I do not, well, the player supplies the materials required and are discounted on the price, if I actually charge.
     
  21. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    It's different with me and the others in my circle. All my characters are there to support my crafter. My crafter is my main character.
     
  22. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I'd definitely like some way to unravel a scrappers, maybe get a relic from it or something useful. They never sell for me.
     
  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    One change that I would like to see is an incompatibility with crafting if at high levels, say above 80.

    That is, one can still have 7 characters, and one can have mixed fighters and crafters but only up to a max level of, say, 80.

    If one wants to exceed this level and, say, reach 100 or 120 in crafting skills, then the fighters could not go, say over 80.....

    Bottom line is, the account can either excel in crafting or fighting but not on both...

    This way, players would either need to have 2 accounts to have both at high levels or, with 1 account, have to rely on other players for needs at high levels of those skills.
     
  24. popps

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    Actually, I am not in favour of self-sufficiency at all (see my post right above...).

    Problem is, that most often it is not fighters who are played as mules at the service of crafting but the other way around, crafter characters used as mules to fully cover the needs of the main, fighting characters.

    I would like to see fighters to have to depend on crafters (other players' crafters, that is), just like crafters are wanted to have to depend on fighters.

    Unfortunately, I do not see this as the case.

    But I do wish things could change and make that happen.
     
  25. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    You would need to remove hacking and duping before that was any viable and interesting to the players...

    But the principle sounds good... it would require a tight knit community to, as it's meant to be. Perhaps lead to one, if enough woman have enough compassion to orchestrate it. True women that is.

    But hey, I'm not biased in my balance view, I destroyed a shard and fused with it, so I know what its made of and how to make it fair again.

    They stole my marbles, so I started crafting shards.
     
  26. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm sorry, but that is one of the goofiest ideas I have seen on Stratics, ever. I'd actually rate it higher (or lower, depending on your PoV) than the threads calling for the deletion of Trammel or Felucca. What you are proposing would be a change to 13 years of traditional skilling, and what would not only be a massive re-code, but telling people how to play their game.

    No disrespect to those on Siege, but Siege is not all there is to UO - excepting Mugen, the rest of us have 5 to 7 character slots, and the point of those slots was to allow players to experience different templates, including crafters, pure or otherwise.

    There was a time when it meant something in respect to who crafted items. AoS killed that. Between the Diabloization of items, and the centralized shopping mall that is Luna, the community no longer had any real need of specialized crafters. Those that stuck to it ended up paying premiums for ingredients, or they became self sufficient. And while it may come as some surprise to you, there were multitudes of, and still are quite a few, crafter mains that are supported by gatherer mule types.

    You really need to quit calling for nerfs on everyone but yourself when you post. If you don't like the game the way it is, find one that suits you, and leave the rest of us alone.
     
  27. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    You do realize that I did acknowledge that occurance.
     
  28. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    While I admire the sentiment that brought this concept to the page, I don't like it much at all.

    I do have a mix of crafters and fighting characters on my main account. Even with it, I'm pretty far from self-sufficient. I enjoy having both based on what my particular desire is. Sometimes I like to spend my time in hack and slash, sometimes I like to sneak and steal stuff, sometimes I like to fill BODs, and others I just get curious about what kind of armor and weapons I can produce.

    I have found in this game that if I do one of those exclusively, which your post suggests, I will get bored very quickly. I used to focus on maintaining vendors, but as I do not feel a desire to price gouge like alot in Luna do, I charge significantly lower. I used to spend weeks just keeping a vendor stocked. Now I get up enough inventory to stock a vendor twice, put up the vendor, sell my stock and reserves, take down vendor. Then I play as I wish until I feel it's time to put up another vendor.

    At least as it is now, I can have a variety of gaming experience.
     
  29. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    a massive re-code...

    rofl...:pancakes:
     
  30. LordDrago

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    As only an average player, I can empathize with popps original idea of alternate ways to gather crafting resources )whether it is from fishing, sunken treasures, treasure maps, quests, BoDs, etc).

    My personal belief however, is that things should stay as they are. If I want a peerless ingredient, I can either train up a character and go get it wither solo (OK, not me, but someone who is a good player can solo), or I can get togethor with some friends, and do a peerless quest (if you don;t have any friends, then make some).

    Oh, and the idea of limited my account to be either fighter or crafter, but not both without a penalty? NEGATIVE. Terrible idea. At this time, I usually play on my Sampire in Training, although my new Mystic Thief isn Training is also garnering some attention. However, I have gone months, where the only character I played was my main crafter. Nobody should have their playstyle(s) limited any further. Besides, with Soulstones, I could have 7 fighters become 7 crafters in a heartbeat.
     
  31. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    777 !!! ding ding ding !!!

    You're exgaeratin dude... it's not like you absaouelutli NEEDED to have an extreeme opinion about this.
     
  32. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    You sell the items underpriced what the items are worth this is why luna looks like price gouging to you. Remmeber the old pricing of items from 5-6years ago is in siege. If something is 10mil on production then the equivelent price on siege is 1mil. So 5-6years ago the item you sell in production was worth 1mil. 5-6years before that the item would be worth 10k and in siege it would be worth 1k. The rise in the availability of peoples worth goes with the rise of the items even though items didn't really raise in price it just raised to common peoples price where you can make 100k in minutes unlike 100k in years in the beggining. Just wanted to add that in.
     
  33. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I guess we'll need to agree to disagree here because honestly, I fail to understand how on earth it could be wrong wanting to keep well separated crafting from fighting.

    I have always hated to see crafters used as mules to support fighters mains.

    One of the nice things about Ultima Online was the special way it treated crafters.

    Unfortunately, that's something of the far away past.

    Sure, occasionally there might be some player playing crafting as the main role in the game but most players, at least for what I have seen, just "use" crafters to be self sufficient for the needs of their fighters.

    And this I just do not see as right. It lowers the crafting role to sub par as compared to fighters.

    Instead, if players had to make a choice on which of the 2 to play to its fullest potential, well, then fighters would have to resort to other players playing crafting and that would give a better standing to crafting as a main playing role.

    That's at least how I see it.
     
  34. I nominate this for the 'Dumbest Idea In the History of Ultima Online Award' (tm). This is the most idiotic concept ever to dribble out of the nether regions of the OP's posterior. Why not just say "I want to destroy UO and watch it shut down forever" instead? It would take a lot less time to type out.

    My God, what in the hell are you going to come up with next? :twak:

    :thumbdown:
     
  35. You need new glasses.:twak:
     
  36. Jesara

    Jesara Guest

    As a crafter who has chicken warriors who don't do the boss spawns, I would love to be able to find the peerless ingregiants or the items at any cost. On Origin, I'd love to buy some stitcher mittens, but unlike some posters say, I never find them or the ingrediants for sale. hmmm, good time to ask, if anyone on Origin would like to sell some, please message me.
    Happy almost Valentines Day everyone :heart:
     
  37. Guido_LS

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    I play not one, not 2, but now, 3 craftsmen. My little self made guild is 2CM - Two Craftsmen and a Mage.

    Guido - my main face - Legendary tailor, legendary smith, gm armslore, gm tinker, gm inscription, mid level magery

    J'hary - Legendary tailor, legendary smith, gm carpenter, gm miner, gm lumberjack, 45 music

    Oberon - Legendary mage, elder eval, elder med, elder tamer, elder vet, elder animal lore (yes, some of that is jeweled up)

    and Llewelyn - Legendary imbuing, elder mage, elder eval, 115 focus, gm mystic and gm med.

    I also have alchemy and fletching stoned atm. So I put far more time into tradeskills than I have the others.

    My 5th char is my original, deep in mothballs, pvp'er from before AoS - Random. Pure dexxer, no tricks, and no desire to learn any, so that's why he's mothballed.

    It was a pleasure to run across some old timers on LS that said they still had some of my gm armor from way back when, when being able to mark your goods was as much a symbol of achievement as killing any monster in the lands.

    As I said previously, there are more that play this style of game than you care to acknowledge. If you don't like it, come up with a way to bring the community together, and not destroy the individual player in the process.

    Just out of curiosity, is there anything you don't want nerfed, removed, or changed? Anything at all you are happy about, beyond your excessive post count?
     
  38. King Durango

    King Durango Guest

    That's a horrible, ridiculous idea.
     
  39. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    :twak:

    Oh my goodness...

    This is a HORRIBLE idea, even for you popps...
     
  40. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    poopps that shipped sailed when we went beyound 5 toons

    why not work with and try improve what we have than regress

    and ml regs work as intended if not dropped ml bosses no one would fight them with easy crimmy through factions



     
  41. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    prediction coming

    in the next 3 months poops will post a survey request gold and vendors be removed from game and monsters only drop items and all things on your corpse will be blessed



     
  42. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    This just goes to examplify how far twisted are you guys dreams. Whomever have ears to hear heed my prophecy.
     
  43. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not see the problem, at all.

    It is called CHOICE OF FIELD.

    Want to play fighters ? Go for it.

    Want to play crafters ? Go for it.

    Want to play both, sorry, cannot do at least, NOT excel in both, got to choose EITHER ones.....

    Of course, unless one get a second account.....

    Why having to make CHOICES sounds such a terrible thing to do when it protects a role to play ?

    This way NO LONGER crafters be played as mules merely to support fighters mains.
     
  44. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    hehe... I haven't read it cause I know it isn't for me... but...

    I kinda like you ! :blushing:
     
  45. Of course not. Your rose colored glasses are too dark for you to see out of.



    Because UO is all about freedom of choice. Not forced actions. If they did what you suggested the game would shut down within 2 months. Bet on it.



    You worry about your crafter and I'll worry about mine. How often they (yes I have 3 crafters) get played and what they do is my concern, not yours.
     
  46. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    Popps...go research the concept of "Sandbox Game".

    You don't "Limit" the choices the players in the Sandbox have, or you undermine and destroy the Sandbox concept.

    That is not just how "I" see it...or "Someone Else All Alone" sees it.

    It IS the Reality of a "Sandbox Game".

    Your posts indicate clearly that you are as clueless as a 2 year old about this concept.

    Please...before you come up with any more "Really Awesomeness" cool ideas that I think are just Spiffy" that you will defend against absolute logic until the cows come home, please...do us all a huge favor.

    Go do your homework.

    Your vision and opinion are terribly skewed...if you had three accounts, you likely wouldn't even be having this conversation. But likely, you just have one, and you can't see how to adapt YOUR game to the way UO is...so you want UO to limit the folks that are creative enough to take care of themselves, so that they are unable to have both. If you have two accounts, surely you can see how utterly myopic and self-centric yuor idea is.

    And, even if a person only has one account total, it is up to that person to figure out what works for them, and what they are after, in the game, and then to make it work.

    A little knowledge on any matter is dangerous, particularly when you walk out in the public eye, and spout the tiny bit you think you understand as "The way it should be".

    Good Lord.

    Go do your homework, please, Popps.

    This is embarrasing to watch.

    :eek: :coco: :eek:
     
  47. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    On the most serious note of the thread....Community needs a revamp in this game, they need to revamp the crafters ability to make items above and beyond that you could get from either 1: imbuing, 2:hunting, 3:artifacts. hmm thinking about it nope, this wont solve the issue....issue is we have to many chars, get use to it. (Still think we need a community revamp....no ideas yet you people made my eyes hurt from what all was said in here =\)


    and to a bit of a more silly issue, Surgeries suggested that the definition of "sandbox" was to not limit the players, sure but then why not give them 100 or so chars so they could virtually have every possible "template" on a single account, this would be true unlimiting. On the other hand....if we are not going to do that, then we are "limited"? Of course in the current model of the game one could just train up every skill in the game, save it in soul stones of some fashion and then go on to have an unlimited single char, who could switch at will to a crafter, or fighter, or mage, or thief, or any combination of, well anything. Has anyone really thought of that? We are currently only limited by the amount of gold we can make in game (or cash we want to spend out of the game) popps idea only sounds ridiculous (and really pointless seeing as how i showed you all a loop hole which I'm sure he will close by saying you cant save "combined" skills on soul stones so only 80 crafting on a stone if you have 120 fighting on a stone >.>) but in reality his idea doesn't even limit us to anything, and would be a waste of developers time. Could someone come up with a good plan to get a more lively and active COMMUNITY (we have a player base to work with but no one plays with anyone else....even in large guilds getting 5-10 people to play together can be a challenge, and events are not really people playing together that's just a bunch of solo players gathered in one spot trying to get whatever it is they are offering. I am talking about community playing, not just "oh look everyone is together but they wont attack the same monster due to "insert reason here")
     
  48. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Besides the fact that I do not recall reading "sandbox" on any of the boxes I bought, full game or expansions, at least not the old ones, not sure about the more recent ones, I do not see the issue, really.

    Even if it said anywhere the word "sandbox", that does not mean, at least to me, that it should imply anything goes.......

    If it did, then we would not have restrictions for Siege and Muegen, for example.

    Point is, that if it is worth it, then sandbox or not sandbox then it should be an additions welcome to the game.

    So, regardless of the word "sandbox", the real issue here is whether or not separating a crafter from a fighter would be an improvement for the game or not.

    I think it would.

    Why ? Because as the game is now (easiness to play both to excelling levels with same one account) most players have become self sufficient and just use their crafters to make stuff for their fighters and this, is not good for the overall game and comunity IMHO.

    Instead, the way I would like it to be, would not make it any longer possible for players to use their own crafters to support their own fighters and would necessarily either have to get a second account to have both worlds or have to rely on other players for their needs.

    That would again create more interaction among players playing fighters and players playing crafters and help rebuild comunities and all that.
     
  49. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    so popps i get this you want to run crafter only toons in a game each player can have 7 characters and are frustrated, not to mention most players left in this crazy game has multi accounts and soulstones!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    cant do it and ea will never take away character slots or very large player base reduction


    suck it in go play seige you really sound like a candidate for it, pm me i will give you all my items there

    game changed time to move onward

    does in sign on game play has possibility of change with out notice yours changed a few years ago and you missed it

    go siege and enjoy
     
  50. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    nothing on seige is game changing from what you constant post about wanting
    so go try out make a blog fill us in