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Perhaps a GD/Dreadmare solution?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Turdnugget, Dec 20, 2008.

  1. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    On another server I played they had implemented a neat idea for tamers...It was called an Evolution Dragon.

    First you had to kill a pretty hard dragon at the bottom of a templte... upon slaying the beast you recieved a dragon egg and you'd have to hatch it. It started out as a small little lizard...and little by little when you'd take it out to fight it would recieve kill points/experience. And once it recieved X amount of kill points/experience it would evolve into something new... from a lizard to a drake, to a dragon to an ancient wyrm etc...

    You were able to see how far to the next evolution level by saying 'killpoints' and it would show how many it had.

    Now with this idea they'd need to change it a little... some things I think would be good/unique for tamers.

    1.Make the pet auto-bond.
    2.Make the pet UN-transferrable (prevent people from buying a l33t pet and going out and PvPing with it right away)
    3.Make the tamer 'get to know their pet' by training it up from just a wee little pet into a beast of beats.
    4.Allow the pets hp/int/str/dex/resists/skills to go up to a certain level per evolution instead of spending countless hours farming for that semi-perfect pet. Allow tamers to train their pets up instead of taming/buying a pet, training it for a few hours and being able to fight most anything in game.
    5.Perhaps allow the ability to let the tamer have their pet specialize in a particular field... for example:pet has 120 anat/wrestling but has only 80 magery so it's more of a melee pet, or 120 magery/evalint and 80 wrestle so it's more of a caster, etc.
    6.Make it a 5 slot pet like the GD.

    I'm not trying to uber tamers even more... I think this would be a fun way to allow tamers to get a pet they really desire and grow to love. Instead of spending a long time to find the right pet, or spending millions of gold to buy one...allow us to train one from just a hatchling into a meatshield of a friend.

    I think this would take away at least some of the instant uber templates used in PvP as dismount archers and other templates...Tamers couldn't just spend 40million for an uber dreadmare to use in combat... but they would have to work themselves in order to get a good pet to use in combat.

    It would be cool to have a similar pet we could ride as well that we could evolve... say a miniature hell steed that eventually evolved into a hellish mare or something...

    Something like this would also be good for those that Roleplay...At least I think. And would call for more time to raise a pet to use for yourself instead of the people who buy ones already trained to use in PvP.

    I think it would be more fulfilling and satisfying on both the PvM/PvP front if you had to obtain your own pet, and raise it yourself instead of being able to just buy one and instantly kill high end mobs and insta kill in PvP.

    In PvP it'd be harder to be mad at someone having their dragon maxed out knowing that they would have spent month(s) training up their pet. As it is right now, it doesn't take much time/effort to obtain a l33t pet.

    Please feel free to give thoughts/ideas... pros/cons...

    I'm not trying to give more power to tamers... but allow a way to ease the pain of PvPers with the tamer scene.
     
  2. Inspector

    Inspector Guest

    No, I played that one too and when they hit the ancient wyrm stage they were way too overpowered.
     
  3. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I'm not saying they make them as uber as they were on that server...Perhaps as tough as a greater dragon.

    But in this manner, making it take longer to get that perfect pet. Instead of spending hours farming for a good GD with the right resists (which I've never seen a perfect one) that also has high hp and good skills...Give us the ability to raise one instead...I'd rather have a pet w/the same toughness as a greater dragon that I've had to train myself for X amount of hours getting kill points instead of being able to go tame one in 5 minutes, train it for a few hours and have it be able to hang w/the high level mobs.

    I think it would help tone down the use of such high end pets in PvP as the people that use them would have to spend the time themselves training their own pet as they couldn't just go buy one already trained up.
     
  4. Sweety

    Sweety Guest

    I played a shard with that a while ago, it was a great idea. Makes taming more interesting
     
  5. I'd love to be able to at least tame a drake, have it grown into a dragon, then a Greater Dragon...and then an Ancient Wyrm.

    But it should take literally real world YEARS for that to happen.
     
  6. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Even so, the people that use/train them would eventually have an ancient wyrm to pvp with? It would probably take 10 minutes for the first script to appear, a month (of 24/7 scripting) at most before the first AW's hit Fel, and then 3 years of screaming for nerfs before it was balanced.

    It's a nice idea, but I think you're taking it too far. Ancient Wyrms are just that: ancient. They're not a couple of months or years old, real-time or game-time, they're aeons old. Training a young dragon up to perfect greater dragon stats would be enough of a reward.
     
  7. Think about it like this though...in every stage of the pets life, they would have to start over at the begining of their stat range...and work up.


    No scripter would bother to spend real world years with a pet, the way I have with some of mine, in order for them to reach where they are.


    Consider this...

    I tamed the dragon, Tiamat, on Atlantic in 1998. I have had her ever since. She has reached 7x GM...and today, a tamer that has the skill can walk into Destard and peace tame a Greater Dragon that would eat Tia alive in a fight. I have one in fact that I tamed a couple of months ago.

    Longevity should count for something.

    I may agree that Ancient Wyrms are too powerful for a tamer to own...but perhaps the concept behind Greaters should be reconsidered. Players that have invested years into training pets, like my Tiamat, do not want to give them up for some new creation.

    I would give up all of my pets, save 1, before I would give up Tia...and that includes my Greater, my Cu, my beetle, and my Hiru.

    Same thing can be said for Dread Warhorses/Dread Mares.

    Just like a player, our pets should have to grow into what they are, rather than being tamed above much older pets.
     
  8. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Sorry, no, but all pets are is a specific type of weapon to go with a specific type of template. When dexxers have to keep taking their weapons back to the blacksmith or carpenter or fletcher before every use to have them fine-tuned maybe something like this will make sense.

    My tamers go out and tame wild beasts. They don't go out collecting eggs to raise hatchlings. That's a job for the farmer's wife and kids.
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Good idea to fine tuning a weapon. I wish my weapon can do 70+ damage thru straight 70s and give me like 1000hp. :D
     
  10. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I like the idea of evolution, but I don't want a godly pet at the end of it. I never wanted a tameable ancient wyrm, and the GD is more or less an AW in ability.

    I think you'd need to have changes made so shadow eles couldn't be used for pet training, or the other pet parking methods like satyrs/pixies etc. The tamer ought to be involved in training their pet, otherwise folks will just script or AFK train it as they do now. Few tamers bother their backsides to go train a pet in a dungeon anymore. I don't want lazy arsed tamers being rewarded yet again because they sat their pet down in Yamotsu mines and went out to see a movie.

    I would like to see pets evolve into different specialities, but not all getting 120 skills. Something more modest, or no more than 2 x 120 skills perhaps, but a tamer would have to do a stack of work to get a full 120 pet before it was considered fair. I don't think it would ever be considered fair by non tamers though.

    Wenchy
     
  11. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Get rid of pet insta-log fully automated distance hack teleport when tamer log out.

    Pets should follow tamer log out time. If the tamer is in safe logging position and is not flagged/attacked in anyway pets should log with tamer and teleport back to tamer when tamer log back on.

    If tamer is not at a safe logging area pets will stay in its last position. If tamer logged back within 5 minutes before they are logged out completely pet will not teleport back to tamer. If tamer logged for more than 5 minutes the pet will disappear with the tamer and return to tamer when tamer log back on.

    Pets killed in PvP should suffer from more penalty. This is unnecessary if they can balance the current highly ******** overpowered pets in PvP.
     
  12. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I don't WANT the end result to be an acient wyrm... that's what it was on the other server.

    I'd rather it end up being as powerful as a greater dragon... which we already have. But able to have better hp/resists and be able to choose which skills it specializes in rather then spending hours farming 'hoping' to get a semi-decent one.

    I'm not trying ADD another awesome uber pet...just expounding on one that's already in game, but making it more difficult to get to that great state.

    As for training, if your pet has to get kill points by killing different level mobs, it would make it a little harder then to just park it at a shadow el...using an ele it's pretty easy to maintain healing. But if your pet had to continuously kill in order to evolve I think that would be a little harder on scripters. And even then, making the pet owner only, non-transferrable... how many of the PvP tamers are going to want to have to work that long to get their own pet up to be able to use in PvP? Most of the ones I know are lazy enough they wouldn't want to =/

    And why not generate random spawns if the system thinks someone is afk training...like all of the sudden a band of orc raiders appear and wipe out the tamer who's not really there...

    Once again... I'm not wishing it to be as powerful as an ancient wyrm... that'd be ridiculous and cause more nerf threads...
     
  13. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I'm not saying you're trying to add an AW, but the GD is just about as powerful as an ancient wyrm as it stands. Yes, it would take time and effort to work a pet up, but once that was done, only new tamers would have weaker GDs. So you have to ensure that the final level isn't overpowered, but is strong enough that the tamer would want to take the extra time.

    As for the AFK training, there's a simpler answer. Make shadow eles take damage from pets so they're not going to stand unkillable for hours. There's no good reason to make them so unkillable anymore. Pixies should either be blocked from spawing up on the rocks or give the ability to unstick themselves. Satyrs shouldn't maintain disco effects on players or pets after they disappear from sight, and should continue to attack their attacker while they're under discordance. Things like that are necessary for evolving or non-evolving pets so the players don't get the benefits of powerful trained pets without putting some time into it.

    Non transferrable would be a good idea. I'd love to also see real skill counted for some pets at least, but I realise that's a minority view ;)

    Wenchy
     
  14. As I said...forgetting the egg thing...it seems that pets should be able to mature.

    If I tamed a Drake...eventually, it should become a Dragon. Eventually, that should become a Greater Dragon.

    Same thing with Mares. If I tame a Nightmare, eventually, that should become a Dread Mare.

    There are a lot of players that are complaining that pets, like the GD and Dread, are too powerful.

    One way to quell that discontent is to make obtaining one of those pets more difficult. If a tamer had to keep a Nightmare for 2 full years, and have it reach a certain level of skill before it would become a Dread Warhorse/Dread Mare...you would see a lot less Dread Mares...and those that did have them...actually invested the time into earning them...and therefore deserve them.

    But, in today's "Script for 72 hours and get instant gratification" UO, I suppose time spent and commitment to the game mean nothing.

    That's sad, because providing tamers with long term goals, like getting their favorite Dragon to Ancient Wyrm, might actually lock them into playing UO for years, rather than months.

    When they tame a GD, and get bored with those, the Devs will have to release something even more powerful to get the tamers exited again, so as not to lose them to WoW...

    ...and everyone will ***** and complain about the new tamable that is so overpowered...so you will have people quitting that way too.

    But hey, as long as a player that scripted taming for like a day can throw on some jewels and do everything a player that spent a year or more working up their skills honestly can do...what's the point??
     
  15. I think only freshly tamed pets should be transferable.

    And under the system I would advocate for...Dragons, Greater Dragons, and anything more powerfuel that a Greater Dragon might one day evolve into...would not be transferable...only Drakes.

    Same thing with Hirus. Tame a lesser...eventually it becomes a full Hiru, and then have a final stages for them...a Greater Hiru.


    This would be really neat, because it would keep people from just transfering uber pets to newbie players...and it would provide some use for lesser tamables, like hellcats, and bakes...beyond novelty.
     
  16. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the idea that it will take two years of training to get an acceptable pet. I spend enough time training my pets by actually going out and killing stuff (not parking them at a shadow ele). For someone to come along and say that I have to do that now for two years straight before that pet can go out and handle something that someone else can take on with their dexxer..... Well, I think that's absolutely ludicrous and will lead to people just pulling out a pet for five minutes a day to get its gains and then parking it in the stable until the next day. And to make this kind of a change now and apply it to characters that are already completed...I don't even know where to start with telling you what I think of that idea. It just completely negates my idea of what a tamer does. They don't go out and tame little ponies and then wait around for two years for them to grow up.

    And if you think people new to the game are going to be willing to live with a "little pony" for two years while someone else who started their archer or swordsman at the same time is able to go out and max their skills through normal game play in just a few months, I think you're dreaming an impossible dream. It isn't going to happen.
     
  17. Do you "buy" the idea that it takes 7 days to delete a newly made character??

    Timers can be added to almost anything.


    It would seem we disagree. That's okay. I won't result to veiled name calling as you have here. I respect your right to disagree with me, and the original poster.



    Except for scripters and jewel users, that is pretty much what tamers have to do now.

    What pet can you tame between 50 and 90 taming that is actually useful for anything other than killing trolls and orcs?

    At least with what the OP suggested, you have something to work towards with those low level pets you tame earlier in your taming skill building.

    Unless of course you run a script, like most new tamers...then who cares, right?
     
  18. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I guess we'll have to disagree on this then.

    I have 24 tamer characters spread out over 13 shards and I'm still working on raising skills on 22 of them. About a third of them I started with 50 taming, the rest I used an advanced character token on. I've never used a script to get gains in UO, least of all to get taming gains. In 2008, I've kept track of the taming gains on those characters: 325.9 points. All gained by going out and taming greater dragons, dragons, cu sidhe, fire steeds, white wyrms, rune beetles, dread warhorses, drakes, unicorns, ki-rins, white wolves, snow leopards, great harts, and a ton of bears. No bulls, no ridgebacks. And yes, of course most of my tamers are wearing taming jewelry so they can own decent pets. It isn't a cheat or an exploit to do it and I don't make any apologies for it either. I wish it was easier to get taming gains, but it isn't and there's not a darn thing I can do about it either. So in the meantime, I use the jewels or a talisman when I have to and also work on getting the skill so someday I don't have to use the jewelry or talisman. Does that make all my tamer characters that use jewelry or a talisman frauds?

    As for pets, I just counted and those 24 characters own over 200 pets. About 25 pets were gifts from guildmates; two or three were ones I purchased from someone. The remainder I tamed myself. I don't use shadow eles to train my pets. I go out and kill whatever seems like it will give the pet the best gains, drop some decent gold, and be somewhat challenging.

    I guess the fact that my tamers own some pets they didn't tame themselves makes them frauds too.
     
  19. I never said it was. I just said it was faster. Getting to 80-85 taming and lore takes much, much, much less time than getting to 95-100...the skill needed to really control high end pets without jewels.


    I do...and I don't.


    One of the things that has always kept everybody from becoming or running a tamer is the barrier to entry.

    I have known lots of tamers that were under the impression that they would GM it in a week or two, only to discover that the crawl between 95-100 takes longer than from 0-95...and they stopped bothering.

    Nope. I do not recall using the word fraud.


    Are you saying that using jewels is not faster? That was my original point...but you seem to be determined to make this as negative as possible.


    See above.


    Why so hostile?
     
  20. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Wenchkin, im not suggesting that you work skills up with a shadow elemental... but that you actually have to hunt with your pet in order to level it up... getting Kill Points.

    For example... when my pet starts out as a lizard, I go and kill monsters around it's level to get it kill points. Once it evolves into a drake, I move up and kill harder creatures etc...
     
  21. But doing that would be counter to the 'start at the top work your way sideways' mentality that many have today.
     
  22. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    What your proposing is fine, but shadow eles IMO should be fixed so pet parking becomes history for pets that don't evolve too. Though that's presuming you don't plan for all pets to evolve of course. I'd love to see what furry ball of fury my best hell kitten would make if she were to evolve :D

    Wenchy
     
  23. Agreed.


    I think it would be really neat to see our pets evolve and grow.


    I know that not everyone agrees, but perhaps a compromise could be reached.

    If you tame a Drake, and work it up for years until it becomes a Greater Dragon, then maybe in a few more years it could become an Ancient Wyrm...while having the Greaters that you tame as Greaters not evolve??

    It seems like there would be some way to accomodate both play styles.


    I know that I would love to see my Dragons that I have had since 98 or 99 become Greaters, instead of me having to release them and tame new ones. I know its silly to develop attachments to creatures that don't really exist, but I know some tamers do...like myself.
     
  24. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    This is a terrible idea. I think as pets get old, they should become weak and eventually die. Not get stronger.
     
  25. Well of course you do...don't be ridiculous.
     
  26. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Would you like your armour to crumble into pieces as it gets old too then?

    I don't mind someone requiring vet before a pet can bond or making it a requirement for all tamers, but I think you've gone OTT on this suggestion.

    Wenchy
     
  27. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    As much as I agree with the overpower-ness of tamers in PvP. This idea is probably too much... Besides what if a greater dragon gets old and turns into a Greater Ancient Wyrm... :lick:
     
  28. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I honestly always thought that if you wanted a dragon or any other mythic creature for a companion you should have had to raise it from a pup. I mean think about it, why on earth would this dragon with 700 int agree to being at my beck and call, especially when all they get in return is meat once a month or so.

    I say that you should be able to get babies of all different kinds of pets (including the more mundane kind like wolves and pigs) and through training and feeding be able to "create" or "raise" the kind of pet you want.
    Ideally there would be magical means of training pets so that you could eventually have a plain old wolf be a good combatant.

    The way I envision it there would be like "tiers" of pets, that would basically be the caps the pet could have in stats, damage, skills, and total resists, appearance and accordingly control slots. But under this system I imagine that you could (with a lot of training) make a 2 control slot pig with 50 cold resist and the ability to cast fireball or something.

    This way there would be more in the way of pet variety, and there could indeed be a greater dragon power level type pet (but it might not be a dragon), but it would take alot of work and bonding, not just taming it and parking it in front of a shadow elemental for 5 days.

    I think taming would be more balanced and ingaging overall with this kind of system.
     
  29. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Taming definately could use some new dimension - both in training the skill and enhancing the pet itself.

    Perhaps the plant system or aquarium system could be used as a model for "needy" pets that need care and tending while developing.

    I like the egg idea - have them start out with the size and strength of a rabbit and upgrade the graphics as it develops and grows, eventually reaching adulthood.

    It would be nice to see a system of quests/tasks to take one's pet on to supplement regular training - something to make the development journey more rewarding rather than something to grind through until the pet is "finished".
     
  30. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    So in the end all you're asking for is a more powerful greater dragon.....

    Umm no thanks, currently got enough problems with overpowered pets.
     
  31. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Heh, sounds a bit like Pokemon to me...

    I'm all for it if i can train my Hell hounds into something a tad tougher than fluffy puppies...
     
  32. shanshu

    shanshu Seasoned Veteran
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    Signed.

    With one addendum.

    This should apply for all pets and should be tied into the pet breeding that has been discussed for years. They could also tie taming gains into gains to the pet by giving it commands and being successful at it's evolution.
     
  33. Pets should be made to follow the same rules as players when hitting players.
    Stopping to cast, spells/specials at same time, damage caps.