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Pet Rebalance Idea

Discussion in 'UHall' started by G.v.P, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    As I mentioned to Llewen (as I bashed a tamer idea a few weeks ago) I've been thinking of a way to balance some of the pets in UO. With a focus on only six critters, here are my ideas, broken down into "fixes," or what should be fairly easy to discuss, "additional changes," things that might require balance tweaking, and "misc.," largely cosmetic changes.

    Have at it.

    Focus: Reptalon, White Wyrm, Fire Steed, Unicorn, Ki-Rin, and Skree.

    Reptalon (Balance)

    Strengths: 500 max HP, up to 85 energy resist. Does majority of melee damage by dishing out energy damage (75%), which is unique. Has a firebreath.
    Weaknesses: Outclassed by Cu sidhe at the 4 slot. A Cu can have 100 more HP and 100 more STR than a Reptalon, plus 25 more total resist spread and a higher damage output average of about 6.5 points (~2 when considering an all 70s resists opponent). Nerve strike special is inefficient and a mana waster in PvM situations.
    Fix: Give reptalons +50 HP Max, +50 STR Max, +10 DEX Max (new values: 550 HP / 562 STR / 135 DEX). Old Reptalons would have to run through a new quest, which, upon completion, would do a RNG check and reroll all stats. There could be a confirmation window if the results are crappy so a tamer can decline the changes, or perhaps a more RP friendly report card to indicate the changes if the owner confirms. New Reptalons would spawn with new ranges.
    Additional Changes: Replace nerve strike special with new special called "Stomp," a new Wither-quality spell with EQ noise and physical damage output. While a Cu is the ultimate 4-slot tank, the Reptalon might as well be the ultimate damage outputer when facing multiple targets.
    Misc: Allow Reptalons to get their non-Gargoyle riders access to Stygian Abyss flight shortcuts (the hidden paths only Gargoyles can cross).

    White Wyrm (New 4-slot WW option)

    Strengths: 456 max HP, up to 90 cold resist. Very high STR; among top in its class when you consider a single hit and very high DPS considering spell casting ability.
    Weaknesses: No firebreath. Much stronger melee than a regular Dragon but incapable of being a tank in most situations due to low Fire resist (mage based spells like Fireball, Explosion, and Flame Strike are too common). Low base damage minimum means drop in DPS.
    Fix: Create quest to boost Wyrms into a "Greater Wyrm." New maxes: 575 HP / 450 INT / 75 PHYS / 35 FIRE / 55 POIS / 55 ENER (total max of 310 resists) as a 4-slot. Old Wyrms would have to run through the quest, which, upon completion, would do a RNG check and reroll all stats. There could be a confirmation window if the results are crappy so a tamer can decline the changes, or perhaps a more RP friendly report card to indicate the changes if the owner confirms. New Wyrms would only spawn with original tables and the quest would be the only way to achieve such a Wyrm. As a result, the quest would be somewhat more difficult to achieve than the Reptalon quest.
    Additional Changes: Give the "Greater Wyrm" a new Cold-based special. Either a Cone of Cold/Medusa stone (minus Evils) like Sleep/Freeze spell, Hail Storm, or something else of the like.

    Fire Steed (New 3-slot Fire Steed option)

    Strengths: High end base damage output potential for a 2-slot (104), pack instinct (daemon/equine), firebreath, 80% melee damage is Fire based.
    Weaknesses: HP is way too low at 240 to ever tank, especially considering max cold is 30 and max physical is 40. They also have a max of 300 INT, which doesn't make any sense because Firesteeds cannot cast spells.
    Fix: Create quest to boost Fire Steeds into a "Greater Fire Steed." New maxes: 420 HP / 425 STR / 60 PHYS / 45 POIS / 45 ENER (total max of 260 resists) as a 3-slot. Old Fire Steeds would have to run through the quest, which, upon completion, would do a RNG check and reroll all stats. There could be a confirmation window if the results are crappy so a tamer can decline the changes, or perhaps a more RP friendly report card to indicate the changes if the owner confirms. New Fire Steeds would only spawn with original tables and the quest would be the only way to achieve such a Fire Steed. As a result, the quest would be somewhat more difficult to achieve than the Reptalon quest.
    Additional Changes: Give Greater Fire Steeds the Psychic Attack special, which lowers opponent SDI, and make it lower at a minimum of 10% in PvM. Something to use that mana and bolster its defense while still keeping its HP low in order to not make it too PvP-overpowered.

    Unicorn & Ki-Rin (Balance)

    Strengths: A Ki-Rin really has no strength among its class, while a Unicorn is immune to poison. However, both of their resist lines are comparable to that of a Nightmare.
    Weaknesses: Both have 100 less HP than a Nightmare and much lower STR than a Nightmare as well. Neither have Firebreath and their unique specials are worthless.
    Fix: Give both the Unicorn and the Ki-Rin +100 Max HP. Develop a quest for the old pets, and make new tameables spawn with new range.
    Additional Changes: Let a Unicorn cure its owner as soon as he/she becomes poisoned, with a 5 minute cool-down. Let a Ki-Rin do its mass-lightning if owner is 75% or less health, with a 10 minute cool-down.

    Skree (Balance)

    Strengths: None in its class.
    Weaknesses: Very low max HP for a 4-slot (310), terrible base damage (5-7), low max mana for a 4-slot (260), low max STR for a 4-slot (330), sleep spell the only unique thing about a Skree and it is wasted because it is casted too frequent which just results in the Skree being mana-tapped. Quite possibly one of the worst tames in game.
    Fix: Get rid of the sleep spell. Honestly. The AI would have to actually use sleep in a combo rather than spam it for the spell to have any purpose, and the AI doesn't remotely indicate there are any directions to follow when using the spell. Boost the Skree to at least 400 max HP and 400 max INT, then give it Bombard, Eagle Strike, and Nether Bolt in place of Sleep. A new quest would fix the Skree with random roll, and there could be a confirmation window if the results are crappy so a tamer can decline the changes. But in the case of the Skree, anything would be better. New Skrees would spawn with new ranges.
    Additional Changes: Give the Skree Hail Storm, as well.
    Misc: Multiple colors? :p ... Purple, Blue, Black, Red, Pink ... could be neat.
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Interesting ideas, but I feel a little too complex to realistically hope for implementation.

    I used to always use my WW for fighting undead - until wither. Therefore from my point of view, what would be really useful is if the pet could absorb area damage spells, protecting its owner (and any partner-pet such as mare or bake kit) from them. This would again make it the pet of choice for fighting undead, since you'd be able to stand with it and vet it.
    Reptalon is quite useful in the right situation, I think a more worthwhile special would be all that is really needed to make this pet viable. More thoughts later, housework calls.
     
  3. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Id like to see a greater white wyrm and the reptalon "fixed".
     
  4. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    Booster pack for tamers? Boosted pets and +5 more stable space.
     
  5. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    And they should add deities to UO so they can be tamed too. I mean, since taming Virtue Shrines wouldn't be practical.
     
  6. canary

    canary Guest

    Taming could use a balance, but not in the way the OP thinks.

    I think that some of the pets should be made just a LITTLE stronger... like, polar bears. Bulls. Giant snakes. Heck, even bunnies. Who wouldn't want a bunny that could tackle like a lizardman if properly trained, lol?

    I wouldn't want them to be super amazing, but it would be nice to see some MUCH lower tier animals be useful in combat. And no, I wouldn't want them to match a Greater Dragon or even a Nightmare, but maybe just have a few more hp or do a bit more damage than they do now. Pack instinct is great, but not when its with creatures who typically die in one hit.

    Let's make it so not every tamer has to use the same 1-3 animals in combat. Let's make it so that something other than a boura is good at lower skill levels.

    Overall, though, I don't find ANY of this a priority. For sheer ability to handle themselves as a template, tamers have nothing to complain about (and I say this using an unconventional tamer). It simply, imo, is not 'broke' in the sense they have a variety of higher end creatures to do damage. I just think if it needs tweaked anywhere its the ability to have them use lower end creatures be a bit more 'buffed'... if a tweak was done at all.
     
  7. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    Well, I think the OP is on to something. Low level pets are garbage and no one uses them. The high end pets, really boil down to using the GD or a Cu, but most of the rest are useless.

    I think we would see tamers using the newer enhanced pets like warriors use different weapons, and that is a good thing in my opinion.

    I like the ideas. How many tamers do you see anywhere anymore? SA is decidedly Pet Unfriendly, and Sammys are far superior for spawns, and many other monsters. so :thumbup1:
     
  8. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The majority of the changes would be a few more HPs here and there, etc, pretty simple stuff. But to make sure there are no gimp PvP situations as a result, well, that's where it gets complex. I just hate how when they update a tameable you have to suddenly go out and tame a new one, so I thought there should an option not to delete what you worked on already. I've already deleted my legacy dragon, white wyrm etc, so I'm screwed, haha. But I know some people are still holding on to their WW.

    Would be interesting. I thought about that idea for the Fire Steed, but wondered if it would be too overpowering. I mean, right off the bat, it would be an interesting PvP option if a WW sucked in wither damage, haha. And if cold, hail storm as well. But then you're REALLY talking complex ;D. I def think the WWs need something new though, some sort of ability.

    Cruel :). I thought about just saying, for the Skree, go ahead and delete it from the game. It is so absolutely worthless to own. :(

    To me, low taming is like 85. If you're targeting the 29.1 and under crowd you're not really going to help any real tamers. Personally, I think Bouras should have been usable by tamers only, but oh well. SA sort of messed up the whole deal with Bouras and Chicken Lizards. But you make char, you start at 50, and can jewel to 76, so there's really no reason not to go ahead and get a Frenzied pack or two Kitsunes after you train a little bit from Bouras (packs are better damage, Kitsunes are better tanks). Other than the niche tamers there's really no reason to own a pet with less than 300 HP if you want to have high-end fun. I mean, at current, even a Fire Steed, which takes 106 taming to tame, could die to a mummy if left unchecked (because of their pathetic phys/cold resist -- and their low HP, heh). So I'll wait to see what some actual tamers have to say about my proposals, no offense ... ;P.
     
  9. canary

    canary Guest

    I suppose you missed the entire part where I said I play a tamer. I play an 'unconventional' one, however, as I enjoy a challenge when I fight and it works with the character I play in game. So, yes, I play an 'actual tamer', tyvm (unless you consider 110 taming, 110 lore, 115 vet not 'real' enough for you). And I still think your ideas are wrong.
     
  10. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    LOL I guess you took offense. Well, go ahead and make your own thread regarding polar bears, bulls, and giant snakes. Like I said, I will wait for some opinions from tamers who will actually read the data.
     
  11. canary

    canary Guest

    No, not offense, merely pointing out that you are calling what I play not being a 'real tamer'.

    Which, it is.

    But go ahead... what you really just want is people to agree with you. I read youd 'data' and I am telling you I disagree, and I indeed play a tamer. I even told you in my original post why I disagreed with you.

    Enjoy a challenge once in a while. Cu's and Greaters are the easy way out for taming. Not everything needs to be a comparative tank.
     
  12. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    When have they updated pets? They don't update them, they downdate them. Every time they change a pet it is a downgrade all because of PvP, which flows over to PvM. You also forgot the Rune Beetle/Nightmare or Bake Kitsune combo that a lot of people use. Sorry when have you seen a PvPer fight a GD in the wild? They don't, but they had to nerf the tamed ones all because of PvP. My tamer still takes the same damage form an untamed GD, but my tamed GD sure doesn't put out same damage she use to. Please don't ask them to fix our pets because all they do is nerf them.
     
  13. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    What do you mean by forgot? They're fine the way they are.

    The greater dragon's firebreath -- well, all pets, and all creatures, now have a hard cap on firebreath. But the greater dragon's melee damage never changed. People posted about it changing but it was a falsehood. Anyway, that's what the board is for, discussion. That way we can present to EA a more polished idea for pet balancing.
     
  14. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    I've always played taming or charming classes. I don't know why but it always just captured my imagination.

    In UO, I started as a tamer when dragons were actually useful pets in 1997. I went on in Everquest to be an Ogre Shaman, and conquored much with my wolf pet and my halfass melee ability. Later on I played a charming Minstrel in DAOC. Now I'm back in UO.

    I tried to pick taming up again. And I played one almost exclusively for several months into the high end. I picked up and played with every pet you could get. And then I gave up.

    Taming is great at the low end/entry level because it gives you power you wouldn't otherwise have. But it starts lacking in the mid-high endgame in many ways.

    Not to mention the pet, pathing, and control bugs. If you're a tamer you know what's up - but let's leave that for another time so this thread doesn't devolve.

    Anyway, I agree the 6 pets listed by the OP (Skree, Reptalon, Fire Steed, White Wyrm, Unicorn, Ki-Rin) could use some love.

    The OP may have been a little too specific for the Devs to be able to understand what is needed. Instead, I'll just say, those 6 pets need boosts.

    Devs should already know this as I'm sure they can make queries to find out which pets are used and which aren't. And if they don't have that ability, merely playing the game should be sufficient to tell that Dread Warhorses, Greater Dragons, and Cu's are the most often used pets. And the 6 listed here are rarely, if ever seen.

    It would be really nice to see some variety in pets chosen to hunt with.

    I'll let the devs take it from there. Tamers can give input once they decide to update.
     
  15. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Tamers aren't quite extinct, of course :) you'll see them at any large EM event or the like totting their G Drags, haha. But I agree, post-imbuing the Sampire has become a very common template. And to go on what JD says...

    I agree here as well. I use my Sampire much more often than my main tamer now when farming (but I usually just run a mystic mage for new stuff). A Sampire, beating on stuff with a darkwood suit, is just so much more efficient than a tamer when farming mid-level creatures like Cavern rats etc. Whirlwind DPS is absolutely insane, and having to wait for a pet to follow you while you run is annoying. Most of the time a tamer cannot compete with a Sampire or dexxer for DPS. Except, one time a dexxer was working on a Dark Knight in the Gauntlet, and I used my regular Dragon/ Nightmare combo on it and stole an AOF from him ;D bwahahaha.

    And JD, from reading your posts in the past, I know you know what's up when it comes to Sampires :) (and probably tamers as well).
     
  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I more often than not use my Chiv/Bushido Archer for PvM and PvP....

    I have tons of tamers... but I do agree that something needs done with many of the current tamables.

    Reptalons are 100% useless. They are far too slow, too weak and all to make a decent 4 slot pet..... either reduce them to 3 slots or boost them in my opinion.

    Skree.... another useless pet.... again drop them to 3 slots or boost them up. And I agree they should come in more colors than just poison green.

    Give us a place to tame Fairy Dragons. These would be a good 4 slot pet.

    Let us tame Dread Spiders... this would be an excellent 3 slot pet.

    Give Dragons more colors. And what happened to colors in the EC. Why can't I see the different colors of the Nightmares? Why are all dragons the same stinking color in the EC? Why are the colors of Hiryu so ugly in the EC?

    Pets need an overhaul and the EC needs to be given some attention.
     
  17. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The only thing I worry about when it comes to colors is having go back out and tame if you already have a great pet. Thought it be nice if Skrees had colors as well as being better, so people would have no problem replacing.

    Fairy Dragons are sorta weird, not really sure how they work. They seem to hide, stealth, and heal themselves. I don't know if they would work well as tames, at least, not how they are currently binded to the mini-spawn.

    Dread Spiders would be interesting, sorta a less powerful rune beetle but w/ pack instinct ... hm.
     
  18. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I have a soft spot for the skree (right on its head!), and I don't know why.

    Anyhow, here's what I would do with the skree.

    1. Remove magery ability completely.
    2. Add in mysticism spells listed above plus spell plague (no area effects, they have nasty side effects) as well as cleansing winds.
    3. Change it to a three slot pet.

    Reasons:
    1. With a ton of magery spells, the mysticism spells never get their turn, which could be both an advantage and a disadvantage.
    2. Direct damage spells are great, but only during the mana dump. Spell plague may make it a little overpowered, but I'm willing to test it.
    3. The skree as it is now isn't even worth two slots, let alone four. Adding in a bunch of direct damage spells improves it a lot, but not to the point where its four slots (IMO).

    With its low resists and hit points, it wouldn't get a lot of PvP use, especially when a player can kill a skree nearly instantly.
     
  19. i'd like to see the white wyrm have a max magery/eval/resist/meditation of 120+ post tame.

    i'd like to see fire steeds immune to fire, and reduce fire damage to tamers riding them, like a fire eater property. maybe give them perma-hit fireball.
     
  20. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Those creatures are all perfect the way they are.

    Balance Greater Dragons, Dread Mares, Bane Dragons.

    Greater Dragons Upon taming they turn into normal dragons.

    Dread Mares Are converted into normal Nightmares.

    Bane Dragons Are converted to be the equivalent of a Nightmare.

    Rune Beetles Armor corrosion is based off of the targets resisting spells skill.

    Oh and add a combat flag timer to pets also. There's balance.
     
  21. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    That's there own idiotic fault for not creating two totally different rule sets for tamed pets, but eh.. what can you do?
     
  22. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    These are great ideas. :thumbup1:
     
  23. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I understand your sentiment, but I don't think any of my changes would create anything more gimp than a cu or g drag.

    But I do like the armor corrosion idea, I always like the thought of resist helping out since it used to be the boss skill to have back in the day.
     
  24. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I thought spell plague might be too powerful ... and as you said, hail storm might be bad too, hehe. Cleansing winds could be nice if it healed owner, too ... but that might be too powerful as a 3, would def req. testing.

    I agree, though, that making the Skree just a direct speller would make it too similar to everything else out there. But it would make it useful :)
     
  25. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Hard to imagine I posted this thread over a year ago. Anyway, while Shame didn't give any new tameables, and scorpions were left untouched, I thought I'd bump this thread just in case Ice Dungeon could be next in line (Greater White Wyrms). :)
     
  26. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    whoa .. Lord Frodo, how true. Before tamers were always being screamed at as 'wimps" and since everyone had to get taming skills to have those pets that they could use without having taming skill, the powers that be always nerf tamers. So be it. But now .. do we have to continue taking more and more nerfs and complicated changes? These are animals and tamers we are talking about :

    Give PET VET REWARDs such as a substantial increase in stats for each year from 1997 to present (probably no records)
    - - or at least since from of being bonded.

    *(see post below about nerfing the "bond" time) Would be a good reason to KEEP bonding for patient tamers.
     
  27. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    :thumbsup: :please:
     
  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    When I think of reptalons, how much they are unused by tamers, and how much work must have gone into designing them and writing the code for them, it is inexplicable to me how for so many years since its existance this particular pet has not been revised and made more usefull so that players would actually be willing to actually use them thus making designers' and programmers' work on creating this pet worth the effort........

    Personally, I have a hard time to understand the point of investing work to create something for the game when then players do not make good use of that work using the Reptalon. I mean, wouldn't it be better to use that work on something else that players would actually make use of ?

    What is the point of creating something that is hardly used ??
     
  29. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Fire steeds are fine, except the fact they use fire-breath, the thing about fires steeds is they have two seperate pack damage increases (if your tamer has Spellweaving, a Summoned Imp adds to this pack damage)

    Imo anything that uses firebreath and has less than 600 hp, hits for weaker damage with it than their melee attacks, the reason i mention this is that Firebreath causes melee attacks to stop during the cast, thus lowering dps.

    Pack damage bonus I think should be slightly increased or as I've mentioned before they could add "Claw add-ons" to change the pets damage types OR give them slayer properties twards a specific mob or group of mobs.

    These claws would be applied similar to a dragon barding deed is to a swampy but would work if you had a certain amount of taming required or something of that nature. they however would also make your pet become more vulnerable to the opposing mob/grps.
     
  30. popps

    popps Always Present
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    One Veteran Reward that I would favour is a mount that counts as zero followers' slots.

    And no, it would not unbalance anything since there is speed hacks out there that allow to ran on foot faster than anything else and not even be stopped by terrain....
     
  31. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    I wouldn't like anything that assesses pets or alters them on a retrospective basis.

    Any suggestion of futzing with the stabling coding absolutely terrifies me. Seriously.

    Reptalons are totes in need of some love though.
     
  32. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, if there will be actual work invested in creating Greater White Wyrms, be it design, graphic or programming work, I hope that it will be towards creating new pets that tamers actually will want to use. Otherwise, better invest all this work in fixing current problems that the game already has rather than create new pets that players will not want to use........
     
  33. R Traveler

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    Lets call it Roller skates and fit footwear slot.
     
  34. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    Since this thread was originally posted, I have tamed and played with the reptalon. It is defiantly not on par with even, the 3 slot Dread Mare or Bane Dragon. Making the Reptalons a 3 slot pet just might make then a tiny bit more useful, as you could pair it with a Kitsune or Nightmare, or even an EV or other summons.
     
  35. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    Somewhat like my hopes for the rideable Swamp Dragons, Nyses. I was so disappointed they made those instead of making original DRAGONS rideable.

    Guess I was expecting a bit too much ..*sigh* .. goes back to a favorite hunt - -
     
  36. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    There's a lot more than just pets that need to be re balanced...
     
  37. elspeth

    elspeth Guest

    Some of these pets do indeed need some love.

    I still think the best way to make firesteeds more attractive is to add in the other elemental steeds and have them all share the same equine pack instinct. This would add a lot of variety in what tamers can choose to fight with. I haven't really hunted much with my firesteed though, could be they also need some boosts to HP and the like to make them a bit better at surviving.

    I also think a person who has real skills of 120 taming, lore, and vet should have 6 control slots. The person with such skills could be mounted and use a gd, could use 3 of the above mentioned elemental steeds with pack instinct for example.
     
  38. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    I strongly oppose an increase in follower slots.
     
  39. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I oppose this as well. but only because of pvp reasons.
     
  40. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    OP has a lot of great ideas.

    If implementation is to much with how OP described, new versions of said tameables OP mentioned, adjusted and naturally spawning ingame would be great and provide hours/days/weeks of entertainment hunting/training/trading.

    Petra Fyde's idea for a pet that blocks aoe from owner would be handy vs necro mobs as well.

    I don't ever see people using a firesteed to hunt with which is a shame considering how popular they used to be. Raptalons have always been sub par, WW have been weak for the exact reason op described.

    The only other thing I would add is a diversity of acceptable color dyes for tameables or Greater Dragons spawning w/ a variant of accepted colors like Hyrus/Cusid's have done already for sometime.
     
  41. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Yup. Pvp-tamer balance prompted my response.

    I don't personally care overmuch if someone wants to gank-farm some monster in a Trammel ruleset facet. That said, however, someone is bound to complain (and loudly) when umpteen g-drags manage (just) to out-damage a solo sampire.

    Regardless of playstyle choices and/or facet preferences, why invite trouble unecessarily by futzing with perfectly acceptable follower slot limitations?

    Rejuvenating certain under-utilised pets (ww's, firesteeds, reptalon, etc) however, is worthwhile even if it sits low on the list of priorities behind bug-fixes, giving Siege some much needed love, and general game balancing.
     
  42. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Per my ideas there would be no retroactive changes. You'd either have to tame a new pet for the new ranges or do a quest in order to re-roll the base stats. Otherwise you could keep your pre-patch.

    The problem with rideable dragons is the game can't place a player that high on the Z-axis. For example, the ethy boura was made because they couldn't place a player on an existing boura--it was too high on the Z-axis. What would happen is a player would be unable to pass through doors without their head popping up through the roof. Either it would look horrible or collision detection would prevent a player from passing through.
     
  43. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Your re-rolling of pet stats quest idea is creative. I like that about you. I can just too easily see tons of OCD tamers repeating the quest & re-rolling until a 4.5 rated or better emerges. Give folks an easy way out and they'll usually grab it. As hard as it is to credit it, it's safe to say not everyone enjoys the (usually long) hunt for that truly spectacular pet as much as I do.

    Technical explanation aside, I'd much rather believe that as much as my dragons adore their respective taming companions, they would no more suffer the ignominy of being ridden than my tamers would think to suggest such an insult. :thumbsup:
     
  44. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    I love doing that myself, usually training another pet in the process. Now with loot being revamped on mobs, will be even more exciting/profitable. The problem occurs when there is only 1 spot to tame them (white wyrms in ice dungeon) and a rapid bottleneck effect occurs with people wanting to do just that, tame the 4.5 or higher.

    If we are talking about greater white wyrms, I'd suggest ice dungeon, as well as 2 spots in tokuno (snowy area). Possible third in Ish or Lost lands.

    This will help spread out the crowds of tamers looking to tame the newest tameable and minimize griefing etc that bottleneck effect has been known to cause.

    If hopefully the firesteeds get an upgrade, gonna need to do the same in regards to spawn areas. Right now it's just Fire dungeon and possible summoning through the candle right inside deciet. I would also offer they might spawn in a few other spots, Mountain in tokuno, Ish, Lost lands, and 2 spawns in Fire dungeon.
     
  45. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I think all (1 follower) Pack damage pets should get a buff in damage applied from their pack bonuses and maybe about 20-30% increased resistances, These pets by no means should beable to tank, But they should be unmatched in damage, by all other pets (except other 1 follower pack damage pets) but i believe they shouldnt die in one hit from an aoe or 1 melee hit from mobs of medium difficulty.

    Big "tanking" pets (4-5 follower) pets should have some form of AoE, hit area, whirlwind, or momentum strike,

    Most pets in between should have some sort of mix between tanking/pack damage.

    I also think that, ALL pets (including pets you can only have one of) should have a pack damage bonus. for when they are grouped up as Hostiles before being tamed, And for when you and other tamers get together, dragons should benefit from other dragons and such imo, but it shouldn't stack beyond maybe 100% damage bonus (25% per partied/pet, could be based on the amount of followers the pets take, allowing lower follower count pets, benefit more from the damage bonus)

    (Pack damage bonus should not be applied against players in pvp)

    Or some pets maybe get the ability to do triple damage vs pvm only (like Unbound EV's do to tamed pets, sometimes they hit a GD for 25-35 and others GD gets hit for 90-110), i believe this ability took the place of previous mobs that made pets get unhappy and go wild when fighting them, like the Serpentine Dragon, used to make all Dragon pets go wild.
     
  46. elspeth

    elspeth Guest


    I am talking about 1 more control slot, just 1, and only for people with real skills of 120 taming, lore and vet. Most pvp tamers probably don't even have vet and many likely use jewelry to get just enough control over whatever they want to use. So those people would be unchanged. This might make it possible that a "pure" tamer with 120 in all 3 skills just might be able to pvp but I doubt it. So, I don't see how this could upset pvp balance at all. And one more control slot is not going to allow people to have umpteen gr. dragons. If you want to outdamage a sampire, you will still need to have friends along with their greater dragons. Which leads to Covenants idea that pets owned by different people will share their pack instinct if hunting together. This sounds much more like it could lead to problems in pvp or "gank-farming" some monster but then he puts a solution in of not allowing pack bonuses to be counted in pvp so perhaps its a moot point anyway.

    My general thought on just 1 extra control slot stemmed from the idea of making firesteeds more useful. If you could have 3 with their pack instinct they just might be a worthwhile pet with no changes. The gr. dragon could be paired with a mount and basically that's all the bonus you would get there, the tamer can be mounted again, probably on an ethy. Then we wouldn't need roller skates. You could take a cu out with a nightmare or a bake kitsune. This is the only combination that I might worry about, would this be overpowering? I don't really think so. It would be nice to be able to add a better damage pet to a tanking cu and might make it so that tamers start using things other than greater dragons again.

    I am definitely against any more control slots than 6 but I just don't think that 5 is really "perfectly acceptable". Basically, it means that everyone uses a greater dragon. I think at least a full tamer oughtta be able to have more choices and still be doing great damage. I hear a lot of complaints about tamers wanting more variety in their pet choices, this would help make lower level pets more useful with little change and help to alleviate the choice complaints. I see it as a win-win and something that would make no change to pvp balance. And if it did, then remove pack instinct from being a consideration in pvp.
     
  47. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    elspeth, being unable to move faster than walking speed is the trade-off for using something as powerful as a greater dragon. That was quite deliberate.

    If you genuinely believe there are no pvp-tamers with maxxed tamer skills, I suspect you grossly underestimate player ingenuity as well as some players' insane +skill suit creating abilities. In other words, just because you cannot imagine it, that doesn't make it impossible or even uncommon.

    I fully appreciate your desire to pit three firesteeds against some monster or other - I just don't think it outweighs the profound negative impact increased follower slots would have upon pvp.

    @ CovenantX AoE spells from pets in Felucca is not cool. From someone who once wiped out an entire guild function with the mass cursing of her white wyrm, I vote "no" to AoE spells on magical pets. :blushing:
     
  48. elspeth

    elspeth Guest

    Walking speed with greater dragon can already be overcome. Become a gargoyle.

    I don't believe that there are no maxxed tamer pvpers but I think it is likely quite uncommon because a skill like vet at max won't really help you kill other players, the fight is too fast. You have to do lots of damage quickly and vet is there to keep pets up during long fights. If there were 6 control slots like I suggested then perhaps it would become more common because you would finally have a benefit to the max vet. If the balance gets out of whack, then the pack instinct can be reduced for pvp battles. I know people tried to use 5 trained frenzies in pvp when pack instinct first came out and they could really do a lot of damage but they just died so quickly that I don't see many people using them still. Firesteeds also die fairly quickly if one doesn't change them as suggested earlier in this thread so this might also end up being fairly useless to pvp.

    I just think it is worth a try. And with testing and tweaks, it could be made such that there is no negative impact on pvp.

    And I feel that you aren't really reading my posts. I don't really have a "desire" to pit 3 firesteeds against certain monsters. The only firesteed I currently own, I've never really even used and it isn't trained. What I want is to add variety in what is usable and this is a way to do that without adding new tameables. Although, as part of that variety, I would like the other elemental steeds added into game. One could use some combination of ice and fire steeds or energy, poison or earth steeds. But as it is now, tamers use a greater dragon and that's that, I even see people talking about having released their wws. I have a fondness for the pets I have cared for, trained and fought with all these years. It is one of the main reasons that even when I left UO, I always kept paying for my account. I don't just want new tameables, I want my old companions to be viable alternatives again. A 6th control slot is an alternate possibility to the ideas first brought up in this thread.
     
  49. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    For what it's worth -- here are my thoughts on tamers and pets. In the beginning of Ultima OnLine, I had slow internet connections and so couldn't begin to defend myself from PK and thieves especially those with fast T1 connections .. didn't even see them coming. So I learned to die gracefully and lose everything I owned, over and over and over again, as did many others. Taming and Bard became my best defense. To this day I have always had wonderful Pets to defend my characters from preditors be it monsters or players.

    After all these years and changes, in my opinion:

    Tamers and pets don't belong in the world of PVP. PVP should be Player against Player .. not pet-against-player plus pet-owner(Tamer) against player. Trying to balance a pet's skills/stats against weapons and armor seems rediculous. I don't seem to put pets in the same category as man-made weapons and armor.

    When I want to go into battle with Players I make warriors and equip them with the skills, weapons and armor to handle the job.
     
  50. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Going gargoyle on a tamer has its own limitations. As for firesteeds, I simply used one of your examples to illustrate a point.

    The six follower slots you propose would seriously unbalance pvp. Yes, just one more teeny weeny lil ole follower slot would do it. And the effect would be immediate rather than gradual.

    If what you truly seek is to update your older pets, increasing follower slots is not the way to achieve it. You see, without major reductions in the abilities of the very pets you're seeking to improve (ww's, firesteeds, proposed other elemental steeds, etc), an increase in followers is just not going to happen - at least not on EA Mythic shards.

    @ Jade Are you seriously suggesting I should just roll over and die when attacked on my tamers?! There are tamers who enjoy pvp and tamers who enjoy the potential for pvp. I put myself in the latter category by the way.