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Pet slot balance, hues, new tameable ideas, champ spawn balance

Discussion in 'UHall' started by G.v.P, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Per 15th Anniversary party:

    -New tasteful hues on mobs
    -Revising pet slots
    -Pet Revamps
    -Making new tameables
    -Reworking champ spawns

    Mesanna said she would like to see a "chocolate dragon," and wanted to change champ spawns so they are less predictable and less necromancer friendly. My initial thought? Make spawns other than Despise (Barracoon) more necromancer friendly ;).

    To get people up to speed on the pet color debate, EA suggested a color change plan on August 25, 2009. They issued forth a poll, but UHall didn't like the idea much, and EA shelved the idea.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Over two years later, EA is finally ready to tackle the idea of new pet hues. Over the interim, a Medusa bug (if I recall right) changed a few pets to a purple-brown hue (feel free to verify, and/or provide a picture). That hue--while not chocolate--might be a nice starting out point.

    As far as pet balance goes, I've put forth a few ideas, then tried to focus on the White Wyrm.

    I'm all for a Greater White Wyrm, but as far as new tameables go, hmm...any ideas? Manticores, griffons? ;P
     
  2. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    I always thought there should be a craftable add-on for pets, to give them "slayer" capabilities, - balancing them to that of other pvm templates.

    It would be applied just like the Dragon Barding armor to swamp dragons. but as an offensive add-on, as opposed to defensive. (maybe have a color match the champion skull of the appropriate slayer group)

    Demon - Yellow
    Undead - Red
    Repond - Blue
    Fey - White
    Arachnid - Green
    Reptile - Pink
    Elemental - ???? there is not currently an elemental champion spawn.
     
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  3. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    About time they got around to Re-balancing pets....
    Takes upto 25 minutes on a discorded UEV with my greater, My Sampire can do it within a few minutes...
    Something not right...
     
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  4. Sept

    Sept Journeyman
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    I like some of the ideas put forward above. I have always championed the idea that pets should have some sort of similarity as slayer properties, weather that is through the introduction of a new damage system, for example, you tame something that is repond and it has slayer properties against undead, though I do prefer the pet add on system mentioned above. Or the introduction of new variants of pets, maybe make them a random spawn, say a silver dragon for undead.

    I do not like the art shown above, I dislike it when they colour things and you lose some of the details, I would prefer it if the hue changes apply only to the fur/skin/scales etc and they did not include the eyes mouth claws and so on.
     
  5. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I'm still inclined to think the best approach for greater dragons is to vary their colour based on their damage output - reds for fire, greens for poison, greater white wrym would be cold damage of course, so you pick the pet appropriate for what you will be fighting.

    Some control rebalancing is needed (skree as a four slot pet? Someone's having a laugh....), but as for new tameables - I'm not bothered as long as there are some, to be honest. I'm not looking for 'better' hunter types, or truly unique special abilities, just adding to the variety of what's out there is good enough for me. But I'm one of the apparently shrinking minority who just play for the fun of it and don't really care about 'optimising', so I can see why to those many people who do, 'just more of the same' in terms of combat won't have much appeal :)
     
  6. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    I enjoy fun as much as the next tamer but also like to have fun in the new dungeons/stygian abyss etc..
    If they indend to boost everything else but leave Tames the same power, then drastically reduce the grind to rise taming or maybe make Taming as more of a roleplay template rather than a pvm template (and im speaking as a disco tamer and sampire player)
     
  7. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    The idea of varying pets damage output either based on damage or slayer is interesting, but would require a significant increase in pets slots. My stables are already full and if I need seperate GD or whatever for the slayer advantage... Oh my. Personally I would like to see a new flavor of tasty treats that would infuse any pet with a slayer bonus for a period of time. This would allow tamers the ability to choose their weapon (pet) and their slayer (treat) to suit their fight.

    As far as hues go, as long as the art is not sloppy I am ok with colored pet. However, I would rather see the hue as a rare drop from a mob... Think Meli hair dye style drop. I love my pets and would be sad to park them in order to get a new hue.

    I very much support the idea of some pet balancing, and some upgrades on certain pets (white wyrm). I would very much like to see some comparable pets to swamp dragons that offer some bonus to its rider. Like a silver steed with a rider bonus to regen based on karma or chiv skill. Same idea for evil pet. Make them require 1 slot and have to be broken to tamer, but rideable by anyone. And please dear God do not make them the size of a bus (swampy).
     
  8. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    I love the idea of a *chiv* or *necro* style ridable which would gove bonuses depending on chiv/necro level and karma and finally break away from all the cookie cutter 99 necro/85chiv sampire templates and make a pure 120 Paladin (holy warrior) viable again rather than just used for ropeplay
     
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  9. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I like the theory, but won't such a 'bonuses according to necro' pet simply make the sampire even stronger? Or are you suggesting the bonuses are calculated on the differenc e between chivalry and necromancy? If so - how could something be designed for other templates or styles of play?
     
    #9 Aurelius, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  10. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    You could take the bonuses is all sorts of directions with varying pets....

    Silver steed - bonus calculated on positive karma and chiv skill
    Darkmane - bonus calculated on negative karma and necro
    Arcane llama - bonus calculated on magery/eval
    Warhorse - bonus calculated on weapon skill/tactics
    Jackass - bonus calculated on total crafting skill (haha)
     
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  11. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Merus - but that way, unless it takes into account the other skills/stats, it's a 'boost the sampire' pet and that really isn't a template that needs MORE power, is it?
     
  12. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    The only one I see that would benefit a sampire (of what I listed) would be the silver steed. With 80-85 chiv on a sampire would any regen bonus really outweigh the damage reduction from an armored swampy or proxy? I highly doubt it.
     
    #12 Merus, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  13. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    Maybe a silver steed (Paladin bonus) but causes damage of you have any necro on your template (stopping the crazy jack of all trades sampire template we currently have)
     
  14. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    oh lets keep the same two boring colors for dragons that we have,dragons only come in 2 colors in real life anyways
     
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  15. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    With the life and mana leech on a wammy or sampire template I don't see them moving off the swampies unless you are talking about some super bonus so adding a penalty for other skills seems redundant. It just seems that unless you are a tamer, there is pretty limited benefit to any pet besides a swampy or ethy. Bonuses don't have to be huge, but would love to see some incentives for other non-tamer friendly ridables.

    Ideas for bonuses could be regen bonuses, damage output bonuses, stat bonuses, etc. Nothing excessive... Maybe like +5 regen.. +12% damage... +10 stat.. +5 resist cap bonus to one resist type (based on hue).

    I'm sure there are lots of other ideas along these lines.
     
  16. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Here's my take (repost from Tamer forum with a few minor additions):

     
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  17. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Those would be really cool additions to taming!
     
  18. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Depends if they are keeping the 99 necro for vampire form or stoning it off.... depending on the 'bonus' offered by the pet, there may be merit in keeping it.
     
  19. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    If the bonus was a combination of low karma and high necro, most sampire a would wash any benefit because while they have the 99 necro, they also tend to have very high karma... In the 18,000+ range.
     
  20. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    You guys derailing this thread complaining about sampires are missing the point. There has to be a class of character capable of being a damage shield or you cannot have boss type monsters that deal out high amounts of damage. Any change here should not be an attempt to nerf the sampire, mystic, thrower, tamer, etc. but an attempt to add something to the game that is fun. If a skillset or characteristic of a character template is fun people will want to use it.
     
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  21. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    One other thought, unless something has changed, you can not stone off necro and keep vamp form.
     
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  22. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    I really like the collar/pet armor idea. Could be fun and give something to crafters as well.

    I'd like to see more group oriented pets, or synergistic pets that work well with each other/owner/party.
     
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  23. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    And I don't fault them - the point is when adding pets though, we want benefits for everyone if possible, and not to create another boost for one already powerful template .... Nobody's 'derailed' it, we're discussing how the pet changes might benefit everyone.... quite how suggesting there's a dange of again boosting the sampire template with a possible future pet becomes 'nerfing' them I have no idea at all.
     
    #23 Aurelius, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  24. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    After reading back through the posts I think I must have confused two different threads when posting earlier, so I apologize for being the derailer. I agree with you though in principle - you want changes made to be beneficial to the degree that players will not be painted into a corner and have to utilize one or the other.
     
  25. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    ''There has to be a class of character capable of being a damage shield or you cannot have boss type monsters that deal out high amounts of damage.''

    From what i have found with my own sampire, i need no tank to kill the top bosses (i regularly solo Medusa/Slasher) i don't want my tamer (what i have spent months/years getting to legendary) to be just a meat shield for some sampire/Thrower.
     
  26. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I think he was referring to both sampires and dragons as damage shields... At least that is how I read it.
     
  27. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    Well Sampires can take AND give - i've had 220+ damage per hit on my samp - (thrower even higher but cannot tank) where as my 4.4 GD does no where near that! (even with discord) so i do think the Pet balance is well needed :)
     
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    As far as the color debate goes I'd prefer if they added Dragons that had various bonus's that are different like a Green Dragon that does poison damage and has high Poison resistances and such..... But maybe I rather like the complication....

    Also I'm not "against" coloring and new hues.... what I AM against is just rehuing solid colors.... I HATE that.. It's like dying furniture one solid color... If I wanted to throw a bucket of paint all over something I would... but I prefer the contrasts.... I miss the yellow underbelly of the dragon... Heck in the EC I miss the variety of colors period.


    As for pet slots..... I'll say this..... the Reptalon should not be 4 slots..... nor should the Skree.... 3 at the most but 2 would be more in line with their potential... which is basically nil...

    They need to bring back Dread Warhorses. Let them spawn somewhere where we can tame them... No more of this limited time pet stuff.

    Also they removed the Bane Dragons from down in the Abyss but left that piddly hell hound spawn. Why?????? Just to annoy the heck out of folk??????? Or is that some attempt to make soloing the Slasher more difficult?

    As far as new tamables goes... I want to be able to tame the following and I think they should have the following slots():

    Dread Spiders(2)
    Black Widows(1)
    Fairy Dragons(3)

    Then I think they should add the following animals/Tamables:

    Black Horses (Since many have them why not allow them to spawn.... perhaps only in Fel or something maybe in Malas but they ought to spawn somewhere)
    Camels (These should spawn in the desert area's like around compassion grove. They should come in 2 varieties one humped would act like a pack animal having 2 slots but carrying 2,500 stones instead of only 1,600. And a 2 hump version for riding, they should have some kind of "spit" attack)
    Griffins (In honor of Jeff would be a 2 or 3 slot pet)
    Elephants (Like a walking Tank slower but tough)
    Giant White Tiger (Ridable like the CuSidhe but an answer to it for Cat Lovers)
    Great Wyrm (Giant Snake think the Original Conan Large Snake could come in Cobra or Python form Not a ridable pet)
     
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  29. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    That's - probably clumsily - what I was trying to get across ;)
     
  30. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    That makes me think mainly of a 'reskinned' boura - and I still hold out a hope for the pack boura, with a lot of carrying capacity. The idea of a train of those carrying goods between cities just really appeals to me...

    (I'd also like the 'rideable' vet boura to be the size of the proper ones, and maybe even there be a rideable version out there to tame, but that's a hefty challenge for the graphics folks).
     
  31. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    I would LOVE a dread spider
     
  32. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Fairy Dragons might be a difficult three because they heal with bandages and use high end mysticism. I guess they could scale down like a Skree, but that would make the Skree is even more piddly ;P.

    I definitely think EA could bring back the Dread Warhorses, the Bane Dragons, and make Dread Spiders and Black Widows tameable. I also agree with the slots for the spiders. Right now the best two slot is probably a pair of Bake Kitsune, whereas the Dread Spiders would be less tanky but have slightly better offense due to poisoning ability (and probably more PvP viable as a result, but spider slayer vulnerability would nix that). Once fully trained, Black Widows would be a nice 1-slot alternative to a Giant Ice Worm.

    I also like the idea of adding a cat-mount.
     
  33. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    It's going to be hard for EA to add anything too large as a mount--like an elephant, or a full size boura--due to Z-Axis limitations. If they tried to make it so we were riding a boura, for example, our heads would be popping through the ceiling of houses.
     
  34. Samaira

    Samaira Lore Master
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    So many good ideas, and such a well-behaved thread (so far lol).

    I too would like to see some way of "equipping" pets with a slayer, so long as it was changeable in the field. I'd rather not have to run home from T2A and change 'pet armour' because it's a reptile spawn, not undead. And I'll second the motion that these should be craftable. Maybe use some of those unused SA ingredients? As to other mods, perhaps a 2-3% bump to a selected resist, plus a slayer, and a small skill bonus (definitely under 10 and not over the creature's maximum skill cap!), nothing massively overpowering but enough to take that 3.8 pet and put it more in the realm of 4.0.

    MalagAste's list of new tameables looks good, I'm definitely one of the cat lovers! Talking of cu's though, I wonder if the dev's couldn't nudge up their swing speed just a little. I love my cu, but he barely sees the light of day anymore because they're just way too slow. When it comes to colours, I've always thought dragons should spawn in ore colors, as well as the usual red and brown.

    I think everyone, non-tamers included, just wants to see a little variety around the place. However I think it is important to remember why most tamers are going default GD these days. PLEASE for the love of Pete, put a bit of a hold on the AoE attacks. I've got 110 skill points invested in Vet, and I'd like to actually use it on my pets upon occasion without taking a dirtnap myself.

    Thank you, and may the constructive conversation continue!
     
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  35. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    With the new dungeon spawns, even at 120 vet i am forced to use my GD. I would love to use another pet or combination but they die so quickly it makes it pointless. Maybe thats why at any of the EM Events the only few tames you see have GD's as sadly they are needed, not through choice :sad3:
     
  36. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I agree there... I take my Archer but even he pales in comparison to taking a Mystic/Mage/Spellweaver.... with a good slayer book and them casting WoD I can't even begin to compete..... I can't tell you the last time I actually got an item... Anymore I just can't do much damage at EM events.

    But if they are sick of seeing 40 GD's at the events they need to help us with a pet that isn't mowed down in under 2 min. I also agree about upping the speed on the Cu.... it's way too slow. I oft times wonder what the heck it's doing in all that time between chomps. It reminds me of a Halberd VERY SLOW.
     
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  37. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    They should also give pets some sort of ability to go beyond 100.0 in skills (besides the few pets that are able to do so now), allow pets to use some form of Power Scroll.

    Has anyone ever seen a Tamed Cu with over 100.0 Any skill? they only attack slow when they're low stamina... when you don't see numbers it's because they Miss.

    Just another reason tamers are (IMO) Underpowered in pvm.

    I'd much prefer any form of dexer over anything else. because you don't need Mana to do damage, and with mana leech & lmc you can Armor ignore almost every shot/swing.
    Tamers just can't do anything compared to what slayer weapons/spellbooks can do.

    I don't play my tamer... EVER... takes way too long for me. *apparently I lack some patience* =X
     
    #37 CovenantX, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  38. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    I love my tamer but for peerless/champs/shame/cov/Events i take my Sampire or Necro spellweaver. Far more damage and not stuck lumping a low damage tank around.
     
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  39. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    Implement pet armor which can either increase their damage, attack speed, spell choices, all resistances, or certain resistances.

    I would really like to be able to bring a greater dragon almost anywhere and not worry about his health... now if you lower his damage even further to achieve better survivability, that's fine. Right now, a tamer has to commit almost everything just to keep his/her pet alive (Vet, heals, invis...). I think a tamer who wants to play like this should be able to bring higher dps pets such as rune beetles / mares, and a tamer who wants to shoot arrows and throw spells can be free to run around.
     
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  40. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    There's RL dragons?

    Here's your chance at a new vet reward...Pet dye tub. X amount of years to get with no age restriction to use.

    I hate the idea of barding deeds, especially when cu's spawn in colors.

    What i would like to see in a pet revamp is the ability to train pets in what skills you want them to have. Poisoning, mage, necro, mystic, what specials to use ect. Maybe even go as far as allowing them X amount of skill points depending on how many slots they take. Would definately like to see some non cookie cutter casting pets.
     
  41. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I want an abyss colors walrus with the same stats as a greater dragon. So long as that change happens... the rest is gravy.

    Honestly though any colors from the "special" dye tub would probably be good. Maybe a handful of other "rare" colors would be good. I dont know what colors but...
     
  42. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    As a tamer I disagree. There's a balance there. Sampires require more skills on the character, more skills on the part of the player and are far more expensive and much more dangerous.

    I do think taming needs a revamp though, but I don't think it needs much more power dps wise. Just more options for damage types, pets with area of effect attacks would be nice. Just more options and methods.
     
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  43. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Id really like to see some class that depends on mount to work. Like a knight. Id like it if the pet gave its rider new actions actually. That would be fun. And since the animal would be a mount you would just need taming to have it, which would be cool.
     
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  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Me too. I always wanted one. Id like some wyverns too. But not the third dawn art.
     
  45. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    So perhaps what we're really missing is a way to make group play more accessible, be that through pets that help others in a party or changes to other things as well, so the need to take the individually 'best' template declines - but that would really derail this thread, so I think I'll kick that thought off in a seperate one....
     
  46. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I think there should be more high end pets with different uses instead of just the tank GD. So you could have pets that focus on healing or buffing or debuffing or pets that are good at hunting a specific type of monster, or have an area effect attack... Different damage types obviously something that should be added somehow.

    As I have said before I would really like pets that you can "grow" and customize so that any tamable could eventually end up a top tier pet (or you could stop its growth to keep a low control slow so you could hunt with packs), and ideally one that functions in the manner you want it to, like in ways suggested above.

    That way people could be creative and have pets that are truly theirs and are tailored to who they are and how they play. It would also open up a market for pet sales. Anyway..
     
  47. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    So a 'skill of the pets' or 'pet rating' total, rather than straight control slots?
     
  48. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yeah I would prefer something a little less constrictive in terms of a pets power level. Though I think 5 is a solid cap for how many pets you can have at a time.

    So you could have 5 pets but they could rather than all represent 20% power one could be 40% and the rest 15% etc. Or have one tough pet with lots of hard hitting attacks, count for 80% and a support pet for the tough pet at 20% having healing or buffs but no attacks. Or just have the standard dual pets of equal power. However you wanna train them up.

    The more customization the better if you ask me.

    I would use a powered up walrus and aligator duo myself! Maybe a mega slime?
     
    #48 Uvtha, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  49. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I like the thought - we'd also need a way to cap the skill gain for the pets though, since they still gain regardless until they hit their cap, and it would be a pain in the neck if you had to scrap and retrain from new every '20%' pet in your combination.

    They would almost need the same system as player characters, so you could lock or decrease as well as increase skills.... which would also be a useful thing combined with the suggestions about 'power scrolls for pets', but a horrendous programming task - which doesn't mean it should not be attempted ;)
     
    #49 Aurelius, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  50. yadiman

    yadiman Journeyman
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    I like the idea of pet armor/claws as previously mentioned, but another idea could be a skill called Enchanting (or just use Imbuing).
    For example, you can cast 2 buffs out of a list of these:
    Increase pet health by 50%
    Reduce incoming damage by 30%
    Increase a single resistance by 50 (90 max)
    Increase attack speed by .5 sec
    Increase spell damage 2x (btw: lower pet damage in pvp)
    Increase wrestling skill (or another) by 30 points

    Picking any 2 of those would still not over power tamer imo (and if they did then just lower the #s)
    This would also allow for a much wider variety of pets and playstyles