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Pets. Do we need bigger, stronger, faster now?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Trebr Drab, Sep 29, 2011.

?

Is it time for the next level of pets?

  1. Yes

    24 vote(s)
    23.5%
  2. No

    77 vote(s)
    75.5%
  3. I don't care, whatever.

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  1. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Is it time for the next level of pets?
     
  2. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    really we need to nerf pets imho
     
  3. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    Possibly be able to carry a little more weight would be nice, but definitely raise the weight to be able to ride them still without the "Your pet is fatigued" when it has over 570 stones (or there about) as it is now.
     
  4. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Why? Unless an event monster is specially coded to be effectively immune from, or able to mess with the loyalty of, pets that's just about all you'll see fill up the screen at any given event already.
     
  5. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    I dont do that many events but as far as i know event monsters use to have 80-90 in all ressists a pet does no dmg at all against that i probably can do 5 times more dmg than a Gd with an archer spamming Armour Ignore
     
  6. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    this is why I voted no they are already more powerful than most..

    what we need is Real classes of warriors <-(edit) not high-breed mixes and a balance. the more they add the more unbalanced it gets yet some players claim its more balanced than its ever been... my response to them is "been playing long?"
     
  7. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Should I do a poll on better Armor Ignore too?
    Balance. UO is teetering on lost balance.
     
  8. btw ... http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hybrid

    SO! the oldsters were Wrong about the fundamentals then?
    learn and adapt is ultimately wrong?
    Diversity is ultimately a destroyer and One way is the only way forward?
    It IS as much the graphics so >must have< an update OF the graphics?
    toon stats > player "skill"?

    oh damnit :scholar: WAIT !! ... you wrote:
    Put your syllabus up for review ...
    /possible sign:danceb:
     
  9. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    :loser:

    and you do troll ha..

    and a simple spell check would have been the respectful thing to point out but your true colors came out loud and clear didn't they. way to support the community try to insult others because you have NO valid points at all never have that I seen opps now I am walking down your path right? not cool right ? You tend to get what you dish out like they say and to try and point me to some link that you couldn't explain here for your self well.. you go ahead and click that link :coco:
     
  10. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Strange poll. No context, even though you gave one for your other poll.

    Anyway, I've always wanted a Silver Steed. Same stats as a Nightmare. Maybe something even a 120 Chiv could use.
     
  11. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    We dont need bigger better faster stronger (hmm almost a song there)

    Bad enough when the GD came in - suddenly the army of Cu Sidhes and the beetle/mare combo was gone and replaced by the army of dragons.
     
  12. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
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    i dont think we need new bigger better pets but if there were perhaps other options to use instead of a gd i think that would be cool and let people mix it up a bit.as it is there not much reason to use anything other than a gd cuz its simply the best by far.Other than a few odd times where i prefer my cu i pretty much always use my gd.Would be cool if they maybe made some existing pets more useable is some way such as cu/rend/some o those higher end pets that should be cool an just arent used cuz they cant compare to a gd.....
     
  13. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Problem with a Reptalon was that for the control slots they were just never good enough to out perform a Cu Sidhe or beetle/mare combo. Especially as they weren't rideable either.

    As I said the GD was introduced and killed the other pets. This is why we don't need another one.
     
  14. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    Don't need bigger, stronger, faster.

    My Gdragon needs a nerf, or conversely, a rebalancing of pet power across the board would be nice.

    I'd like to use my nightmare, white wyrm, firesteed again and have em be viable for hunting decent size things.

    A firesteed revamp would be nice to be sure.
     
  15. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    **Hybrid not high-breed :D
     
  16. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I think actually we have the right power in pets, we just need some alternative of the GD with the same power just to see something different around :)
     
  17. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Only if you can't bring them to fel. The current garg thrower tamer char's towing a GD are beyond powerful in PvP right now, not that they need a nerf but in a group setting with everyone hugging this guy they can throw off balance quickly.
     
  18. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    So, do you like the Rock/Paper/Scissors model of MMORPG design? That's what we get with all this. Pets for some things, Mages for some other things, Dexer, Tanks...talking about Mob killing here. Thieves have their own purpose as far as that goes, and tends to give weight to this model.

    But I have always felt that it's better not to have that model (rock/paper/scissors). My reasoning is that model sections off the game to character type. Class based. And I don't like limiting portions of our gaming to designed restriction. It works out in the end if a player has one of every major type of character and can switch out easily, but some players don't want to play every type, and want their "main" to be viable everywhere and anywhere (which is how I think it should be). Lets call this ideal "Balance".

    Yet, if anyone agrees with me, that means that a template like a thief would be viable in combat as much as any other. And then they get thieving on top of that. I think this is a template that needs a little adjustment from the "balance" ideal. A little less combat viable, requiring more subtlety and time to accomplish the same victory. Using stealth, backstab, etc. I think UO has the right idea here. You can be a full fledged thief, but lack in combat, or you can add Ninja skills and be viable in combat, more or less.

    My main gripe in UO is that it does have these very unbalancing skills. Taming, Paladins add too much and so does Samuri, or at least Fighters need a pure fighter extra skill to compensate.

    I don't know, what do others things about this?
     
  19. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    My main is a mage and apart from PvP its a viable character in all settings but as I don't PvP anyway it doesnt matter.

    I do also have a tamer, and a chiv/samurai and both work where I want them too, though the chiv/samurai could be better but thats my fault for not training properly and the armor is lacking in areas.
     
  20. sayler04

    sayler04 Guest

    Not more powerful or faster or anything like that. I do think it woujld be nice, though, if there were more specialized pets at GD level. And more compact, too; something the size of a scree and the power of a GD. I'm so sick of being told to move my dragon on group hunts; he's my only real attack on my tamer!

    =)
     
  21. nynyve

    nynyve Guest

    I can still remember the first time a I saw a tamer in UO. A dragon was following him like a lap dog.

    My initial reaction was "Bad idea. How overpowered and unbalanced can you get?"

    And then they nerfed Bards because they said that they were too powerful.
     
  22. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    the game is balanced as it is... mages, tamers and warriors can do almost the same things if you can use and equip them properly ;)

    The game lack in visual differences.
    For example.
    Tamers uses GD because there is no other pet like it.
    Warriors uses swamp dragon because is the only pet able to wear an armor.
    Everyone wear a robe because is the only art available for that layer.

    I'd like to see tamers with different pets, not weaker than the GD, just different...
    I'd like to ride an armored horse/llama/ostard/ridgeback/etc... instead of the swamp dragon.
    I'd like to see other art for robes.


    How to solve that?
    easy:
    - Add more pet GD like with different shape/specials
    - Allow more rideables to wear armors with the same effect of a swamp dragon
    - Give us a morph tool able to change the aspect of the items (armor/weapons /cloth) without vary the basic stats of the items.
    - Add mastery for all the main skills so everyone will be able to customize his favourite character without lose power or change skill.

    That's what we really need. Arties, ps 150, new pet, etc... just force the people to upgrade but in the end we still have all the same characters with the same dress and the same pets :p

    We must remember: variety is the spice of life.
    That's what prevents the boring effect :p
     
  23. Ned888

    Ned888 Seasoned Veteran

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    I definitely agree with Pinco. I think that a better use of time would be to expand/improve existing content and provide challenges for what everyone already has. Boosting everyone's power level only draws them further up the chain, leaving an even larger gap between them and any new players.

    Everyone is powerful enough; veterans get higher skill levels than noobs. I'd like to see more modules addes, like the High Seas instead of increasing the already powerful to a higher level.
     
  24. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Rideable paragon gorillas with banana cannons strapped to their heads!
     
  25. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    rofl
     
  26. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *shakes head* hen...

    *wink*
     
  27. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    "the game is balanced as it is... mages, tamers and warriors can do almost the same things if you can use and equip them properly ;)"

    Then why do they have special rules at some events to make Tamers less viable? Or are you suggesting that Warriors and Mages aren't equipped properly as a whole, which would be another imbalance issue?
     
  28. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    you can do the events with all kind of char, some template just requires more time than others. That's not imbalance, it's just peculiarity :p
    if a jamaican run faster than you, doesn't mean that you can't run ;)
     
  29. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Love the example there Pinco :D
     
  30. Sorry that you couldn't see the actual valid points I made before ...

    Maybe If I sort this mush out a bit for you, you'll manage to catch a drift.

    Rock/Paper/Scissors is NOT a "model" that games are designed by
    It IS the "name" of the concept for >describing< a system.

    and while you wandered around that little bit of definition ... you failed to realize that your: "Lets call this ideal "Balance" "
    is basically calling for : Lets All be rocks ... but different.

    And while you on the one hand claim that: it's better not to have that model (rock/paper/scissors)
    You yourself use as an example:
    they get thieving on top of that. I think this is a template that needs a little adjustment from the "balance" ideal.

    :talktothehand: dude
    how you ever going to get a classless design format ... when you selectively pick on each and every rock?
    I mean ...
    just because ONE guy wants to be thiefy AND fight in wars ... why he need some nerfing?
    and WHY does the nerfing >have to be< Less effective( lack in ) Combat?
    :scholar: there once was a class of Thief known as a "thuggy" ... IF he couldn't sneak a lift from your pocket ... he'd whup ya and slit your throat and dry loot ya ...
    How is that NOT a typical soldier?

    Look ...
    TRY and describe >your point< without using the R/P/S labels ... In UO you have already used
    MagesDexerTanksThievesNinjaTamingPaladinsSamuri
    :scholar: QUIT using class names to describe a classless "game design" paradigm/flavor.

    Annnnd No :talktothehand: no I am NOT trolling ...
    a "simple spell check" >was not< indicated ... you did not mis-spell high nor breed ...
    and their juxtaposition WAS within context ... of the thread theme:
    design the perfect character ... an ubermensch as it were
    unbounded by "class" ... *ahem*
    THAT particular design format is aka Jack of all trades master of none ... in the "humble form"
    or ... ubermensch-Superman ... Master Race in the eugenics form
    Relevant Star Trek class: Augments .... Khaaaaaan!

    Oh! it can be done, by the way ...
    All >your design< concept needs to exist: is putting the "skill point cap" at a plus one condition ...
    ALL skill's points value ='s
    All skill's X point values + 1 = skills cap
    /simple

    *dusts hands*
    all done ... no classes, no boundaries ( un equality creating boundaries, doh! )
    no need for multiple characters (dedicated to a class)
    no "uniformity" ... each character can look and dress different ...
    you can name your character >anything< cause no-one actual owns the name ...

    there is no rock
    there is no paper
    there is no scissors
    there is no spoon ...


    there's yur mush ... :danceb:



    .
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It means he wins the race.

    And if I have to pay to be in the race, well, I won't be doing that for long.
     
  32. Kayne

    Kayne Guest

    Fayled please please please drop this annoying writing style you have. Its so difficult to follow your comments and somehow I think you have good points to make if only they were readable.

    It's such a disjointed style of writing you may as well be a 5 year old struggling to string together a coherant sentence.
     
  33. pgib

    pgib Guest

    Of course i voted yes, i'm a tamer. Pets that [refuses to attack/do zero damage against] players so they don't screw up pvp? Great for me.

    It is not really necessary because i found out recently that with 240 points in mystic-focus a "tamer" can use the pets we have for what they are worth (bank sitting) and be far far more effective in pvm (a colossus is a greater dragon on steroids with infinite life/mana that you don't have to care about, gets attacked by just one monster per time, has better skills with the only drawback that barracoon dispels it too fast).

    Because non tamers and "guys with a pet" won't accept the long due improvement (last sign of love: the gd, 3 years ago) i'd ask at least for some new shape. There are so many weaklings in game that would be wonderful for bank sitting: hydra (my favorite), shadow wyrm, tsuky wolf just to name three.

    But i must confess that i'm so scared about the current designers that i'd hope they stay as far from taming as they can (tamer rule n. 1: do not engage in pet vs pet fights. So they built chicken fights. Horrible, disgusting, frightening thing for a Tamer). UO taming is so unique, dont' screw it up: I have yet to find another game with something comparable - otherwise i won't be here.
     
  34. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    that's just mean that you play for win :)
    We are not here to always win, we are here to have fun.

    The difference between others games and UO is that:

    - In other games (like neverwinter nights) your character is a hero and is supposed to start weak then became powerfull and able to save the world.

    - In UO you are just a citizen like another (like in real life), you are one of the many that will be forgotten by the story tellers.

    This is an important detail that should let you know why you can't solo everything and why we don't need more power :)
     
  35. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Sooo...the fast Jamaican runners stay?
     
  36. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I agree so much with pinco on the "this game has no win condition" thing i could almost cry: sometimes i feel like i'm the only one that still remembers it.

    I do not agree with the fact that that implies we shouldn't be able to solo everything.

    I mean, the purpose of the game is not to fight things: there is no purpose at all. So fightings big creatures alone has the same meaning of having to fight them in group. The difference is that being able to solo doesn't force who likes to stick together to play alone (so we get more options) while forcing us to group also forces lone wolves to stick together (that means less options). More playstyles, more players.

    I like a lot to see players around and chat with them, craft things for others, trade resources and alike, but i like to fight alone. It's me and my dragon. Ok, my rising colossus now but you get the point.
     
  37. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yes.

    Jamaican and fat guys can co-exist.

    Maybe the Jamaican can kill a boss in 10 seconds, but the fat guy still able to kill the boss, maybe in 2 hours, but he can do it :p
    The important thing is that both will have fun :)
     
  38. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It sort of matters when there's UO economic system to consider. This isn't like other games, where it doesn't matter.
     
  39. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    From an economic point then, you definitely wouldn't want bigger, faster, stronger pets, because that would make farming easier.

    UO gets in trouble when things are done to make our lives or playstyles easier.
     
  40. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I don't see the logic behind the last observation. I mean, you can farm everything you want with archers or mages or necro warriors right now IF you like farming (i hate it but someone doesn't). Nothing changes if you add useful pets.
     
  41. Sept

    Sept Journeyman
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    I voted no, I don't think bigger faster or stronger is the answer. I would like to see more variety in pets but I think the current levels or str, dex, etc are fine.

    It would be nice if we could have variations of dragons, Cu's or other pets depending on the situation. I currently have 2 tamers, a straight up Mage tamer and a stealth tamer and 9 times out of 10 they both use GD's for any sort of fighting. I would like it if I had to choose a certain dragon from my stables depending on the fight or task in hand, just like a warrior chooses a specific weapon, or a caster chooses a slayer book.
     
  42. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    you just remember me the good old times where you can choose from ww and dragons (and others)...
     
  43. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    ......

    can we get a lock/delete on this thread? "More powerfull pets?" ?? seriously?
     
  44. Korik Bloodguard

    Korik Bloodguard Lore Keeper
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    A better poll should be "Should I stop making stupid posts and polls?"
     
  45. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Agreed. I voted no here, myself. It seems some people think I was promoting the idea, but I was just after what others thought.

    The reason for that is because, in other games, they do have this sort of ever inflating power. UO's had some too, through AoS (the other polls I made). And it's at least a perception that gamers want more of the same in those other MMORPGs, whether that's actually the case or if they want "something different". So I wanted to see what UO players think.
     
  46. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    :sad3:
     
  47. eve

    eve Journeyman
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    I grow tired of the ongoing effort that everything must be upgraded because something is no longer balanced again and so all sorts of adjustments need to be made in an attempt to even things up.

    As soon as things get all evened out and nice and tidy, lo and behold someone starts reevaluating or complaining and we go through the whole process again, increasing and change until everything appears to be equalized again.

    rinse, repeat........

    Could we just play the darned game and enjoy the process instead of having to redo armor and weapons and skills every few months? Sometimes bigger, better, more powerful doesn't really add anything... moves the bar higher for everyone.
     
  48. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I think maybe it's time to go back into my hole now.
     
  49. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    I voted YES but with qualifications.

    We certainly need prettier; who hasn't looked at the Ancient Wyrm and wished they could have one again?

    And who hasn't wondered what it would be like to fight alongside some of the Peerless themselves? True power is exciting!

    However, if everyone can have these things, they lose both their thrill, eventual attraction and imbalance the game.

    So my thinking is this; what if you had to earn the loyalty of something extremely powerful? The Devs after all seem to be in love with long, boring grindy mechanics at the moment, so that should get their ears to prick up! :p However, it didn't last for long once earned, and you could only get them to fight in certain instances...

    So let's say Lady Melisande hates Paroxymus because he borrowed the lawnmower and won't bring it back. You could run quests for her in some manner (collect materials for her harpy friends to make nests with) and, after some time of proving your worth, she'll agree to follow you as a non-combat pet ONCE, for a set period of time (maybe 2 days, so people have the weekend), and only because the lawn is getting shockingly long. Once taken into Paroxymus' lair, she becomes able to fight the spawn on your behalf as a normal and honkingly overpowered pet, and on defeating the fatso himself and taking back what's hers, she parts ways with you, never to return...

    New creatures could be added just for the idea of course; but my thinking is targetting a Peerless allows them to be toggleable only in certain areas as useful. And it gives them a roleplay reason to want to go there, as well as allowing the odd experience of complete power to the player, in a limited time scale with a set goal. And if you want, you can stomp about the lands showing off for a little while too.


    Regarding normal, persistent pets, something smaller but equally powerful as a Greater Dragon would be good, to reduce the amount of visual clutter at large events. And a way to customize them would be good; pet dyes keep being shot down, but what about pet tattoos at least?

    Or... how about a "profile" slot for pets? Like we have on our characters, so those who are inclined can write a little history for their pets, and give them character in turn? And no one has to click on them and read them either, so it doesn't affect other people's gameplay...?
     
  50. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Well you can certnly see the ones who pvp in this thread who all want pets nerfed!

    Look at the big picture, the Dev have raised the level of monster strength and durability to the nth degree and against a pet like my old WW or Dragon.... well the smell of toast comes to mind when I have to rez them every few minutes cause they get fried. I am not asking for the same strength as the GD as that would be counter to calling it a GD... but give my poor WW a break! at least up them so they are back in the usefull collum again. perhaps 10 to 20 % lower as to not knock off the GD but make the other dragons viable.
    I for one think its time to bring the other pets up in line with the GD's.
    Personaly I'd love my Anchinet Wyrm back but.. I know thats a pipe dream.. but...
    I would like to be able to take my favorite WW out of the stall and be able to kill the swoops again. Or raise the limit on pet slots so I can take out both of my WWs again like I use to. Then it might be fair against a GD in destard. Or take a trained pair of Fire Steeds out hunting and ride my Nightmare.
    With that Up the stable limit while your at it. I would love to have a few of the new pets but what old dear pet do I cut loose? I dont like to "kill off" an old favorite just so I can get a newer model... this is not car max geesh. Even 10 more slots would be heaven for a tamer. Idea ***how about buying slots?? Say 500k per would sound ok to me. You cant say the servers cant handle it... that excuse is moot with populations at record lows.

    Perhaps a dog house or cat tree for house pets.. I do so miss the old days when I had my 3 rabbits 1 dog and 2 cats running around my castle all tame and happy. J.J. Bunny would race all over the castle like a mad hare.. I miss him, he made me laugh when I had to do mondaine tasks. We have coops for the chickens why not the other insignificant pets people use to love having. Make them not count twards slots they are house pets after all.

    Packies need to be able to carry a bit more heavier load, with the advent of the stacking granet and ore smelting bug it would seem ideal but the weight is important for other things with not just mining but fishing as well. 10 stone fish cuts short my runs cause I have to go empty my bug out every few minutes. Lumberjacks could use a packie with this bigger limit too, its all the running back and forth its a royal pain in the tush.